Moderators: FJS, Inigo Montoya
Inigo Montoya wrote:It looks like Buddy Hield will soon be on the market. Reportedly he wants out and doesn't answer the phone if his coach is calling. We probably don't have the assets to get him, though.
https://sports.yahoo.com/buddy-hield-luke-waltons-phone-calls-kings-trade-request-sixers-nba-003626814.html
JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.
babyjax13 wrote:Inigo Montoya wrote:It looks like Buddy Hield will soon be on the market. Reportedly he wants out and doesn't answer the phone if his coach is calling. We probably don't have the assets to get him, though.
https://sports.yahoo.com/buddy-hield-luke-waltons-phone-calls-kings-trade-request-sixers-nba-003626814.html
I mean, we probably do, the question is if we want to deal what it would take.
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?
The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
Inigo Montoya wrote:babyjax13 wrote:Inigo Montoya wrote:It looks like Buddy Hield will soon be on the market. Reportedly he wants out and doesn't answer the phone if his coach is calling. We probably don't have the assets to get him, though.
https://sports.yahoo.com/buddy-hield-luke-waltons-phone-calls-kings-trade-request-sixers-nba-003626814.html
I mean, we probably do, the question is if we want to deal what it would take.
Are the Kings going to be interested in anyone on our roster who isn't Gobert and Mitchell? I suppose they could use Conley's mentorship of Fox + veteran leadership for a season and then have his huge deal expire, but I can't see a deal happening.
JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.
babyjax13 wrote:Inigo Montoya wrote:babyjax13 wrote:
I mean, we probably do, the question is if we want to deal what it would take.
Are the Kings going to be interested in anyone on our roster who isn't Gobert and Mitchell? I suppose they could use Conley's mentorship of Fox + veteran leadership for a season and then have his huge deal expire, but I can't see a deal happening.
I think something like O'neale + 23 + filler would do it.
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?
The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
Inigo Montoya wrote:babyjax13 wrote:Inigo Montoya wrote:Are the Kings going to be interested in anyone on our roster who isn't Gobert and Mitchell? I suppose they could use Conley's mentorship of Fox + veteran leadership for a season and then have his huge deal expire, but I can't see a deal happening.
I think something like O'neale + 23 + filler would do it.
I don't think that's good value for the Kings. Also, what would be the filler? Heild will earn $24M next season, while Royce will make $8.5M. The only possible "filler" I see is Ingles who'll make $10.8, and Ed Davis with $5M.
JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.
babyjax13 wrote:Inigo Montoya wrote:babyjax13 wrote:
I think something like O'neale + 23 + filler would do it.
I don't think that's good value for the Kings. Also, what would be the filler? Heild will earn $24M next season, while Royce will make $8.5M. The only possible "filler" I see is Ingles who'll make $10.8, and Ed Davis with $5M.
O'neale is the more impactful player, so I think it is actually great value (I wouldn't do it). I'd assume Royce + Conley + 23 for Heild + ???.
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?
The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
Inigo Montoya wrote:babyjax13 wrote:Inigo Montoya wrote:
I don't think that's good value for the Kings. Also, what would be the filler? Heild will earn $24M next season, while Royce will make $8.5M. The only possible "filler" I see is Ingles who'll make $10.8, and Ed Davis with $5M.
O'neale is the more impactful player, so I think it is actually great value (I wouldn't do it). I'd assume Royce + Conley + 23 for Heild + ???.
I think it's too much salary going to the Kings, they'll have to send some back. We'll be sending them $43M between Conley and Royce, and they'll be sending back $24M (I'm using 2021's salaries, as currently Hield is making $4.8M). The only player they could attach to make salaries work right now is Joseph at $12M and I don't think they'll want to do that. This is also why we don't have the assets. They already have Joseph so they don't need Conley.
Anyway, I just went to the ESPN Trade Machine (and also RealGM Trade Checker) and we currently can't trade Conley, Clarkson and Mudiay. They probably need to pick up their options or be signed to a new contract first. I just don't see a trade that makes sense with the Kings for Hield.
JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.
stitches wrote:At some point we have to STOP trading our draft picks and/or players on rookie contracts for old/overpaid vets. We need to target players whose value is likely to exceed their cost salary-wise. We have plenty enough players who are overpaid now. This is especially true in a shrinking market and with Mitchell and Gobert likely receiving new big money soon. We need the next Kuzma/Herro/Robinson. Players that are cheap but able to play and compensate for the bad decisions we have already made on expensive vets(Ed Davis, Conley)... Most everything good on this team has come from either our picks or UDFAs.
Inigo Montoya wrote:babyjax13 wrote:Inigo Montoya wrote:
I don't think that's good value for the Kings. Also, what would be the filler? Heild will earn $24M next season, while Royce will make $8.5M. The only possible "filler" I see is Ingles who'll make $10.8, and Ed Davis with $5M.
O'neale is the more impactful player, so I think it is actually great value (I wouldn't do it). I'd assume Royce + Conley + 23 for Heild + ???.
I think it's too much salary going to the Kings, they'll have to send some back. We'll be sending them $43M between Conley and Royce, and they'll be sending back $24M (I'm using 2021's salaries, as currently Hield is making $4.8M). The only player they could attach to make salaries work right now is Joseph at $12M and I don't think they'll want to do that. This is also why we don't have the assets. They already have Joseph so they don't need Conley.
Anyway, I just went to the ESPN Trade Machine (and also RealGM Trade Checker) and we currently can't trade Conley, Clarkson and Mudiay. They probably need to pick up their options or be signed to a new contract first. I just don't see a trade that makes sense with the Kings for Hield.
JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.
KqWIN wrote:stitches wrote:At some point we have to STOP trading our draft picks and/or players on rookie contracts for old/overpaid vets. We need to target players whose value is likely to exceed their cost salary-wise. We have plenty enough players who are overpaid now. This is especially true in a shrinking market and with Mitchell and Gobert likely receiving new big money soon. We need the next Kuzma/Herro/Robinson. Players that are cheap but able to play and compensate for the bad decisions we have already made on expensive vets(Ed Davis, Conley)... Most everything good on this team has come from either our picks or UDFAs.
It's a fair point. I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with trading draft picks. But there's definitely a trend of strengths/weaknesses that this FO has. Like you said, almost all of our success comes off the back of draft steals and UDFA's. On the other hand, executing trades when we send out draft picks has not been good.
We need to find another Ingles/O'Neale and probably another Mitchell/Gobert if we're being honest. As much as I would hate to trade our pick, I'd still be willing to do it if it brought us back a player with upside. Finding the next Lowry/Oladipo might be the way we have to do it.
babyjax13 wrote:Inigo Montoya wrote:babyjax13 wrote:
O'neale is the more impactful player, so I think it is actually great value (I wouldn't do it). I'd assume Royce + Conley + 23 for Heild + ???.
I think it's too much salary going to the Kings, they'll have to send some back. We'll be sending them $43M between Conley and Royce, and they'll be sending back $24M (I'm using 2021's salaries, as currently Hield is making $4.8M). The only player they could attach to make salaries work right now is Joseph at $12M and I don't think they'll want to do that. This is also why we don't have the assets. They already have Joseph so they don't need Conley.
Anyway, I just went to the ESPN Trade Machine (and also RealGM Trade Checker) and we currently can't trade Conley, Clarkson and Mudiay. They probably need to pick up their options or be signed to a new contract first. I just don't see a trade that makes sense with the Kings for Hield.
I guess one more point, I think it's funny you are interested in Buddy Heild but are arguing that Tobias Harris doesn't imact winning. Harris is a much better player.
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?
The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
Inigo Montoya wrote:babyjax13 wrote:Inigo Montoya wrote:I think it's too much salary going to the Kings, they'll have to send some back. We'll be sending them $43M between Conley and Royce, and they'll be sending back $24M (I'm using 2021's salaries, as currently Hield is making $4.8M). The only player they could attach to make salaries work right now is Joseph at $12M and I don't think they'll want to do that. This is also why we don't have the assets. They already have Joseph so they don't need Conley.
Anyway, I just went to the ESPN Trade Machine (and also RealGM Trade Checker) and we currently can't trade Conley, Clarkson and Mudiay. They probably need to pick up their options or be signed to a new contract first. I just don't see a trade that makes sense with the Kings for Hield.
I guess one more point, I think it's funny you are interested in Buddy Heild but are arguing that Tobias Harris doesn't imact winning. Harris is a much better player.
The difference is that Harris has been through 5 teams already, and has yet to show he makes a difference, while Hield has been stuck in Sacramento his entire career. We don't know how much of difference he could make in a good team. There is also the contract sizes to consider, and Hield's is better, I think. It's not that I think he's a superstar waiting to break out, but he looks like a good complement to Mitchell in the back court, and we really need a guy who can help DM with scoring. Another thing is that we all complain how the Jazz can't make shots way too often (even though we led the league in 3pt% if I'm not mistaken) and Hield is an excellent shooter, which we could certainly use.
Anyway, I brought it up mostly to complain about how we can't get anyone because we don't have the assets thanks to our FO's management and the Conley trade fiasco.
JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.
stitches wrote:KqWIN wrote:stitches wrote:At some point we have to STOP trading our draft picks and/or players on rookie contracts for old/overpaid vets. We need to target players whose value is likely to exceed their cost salary-wise. We have plenty enough players who are overpaid now. This is especially true in a shrinking market and with Mitchell and Gobert likely receiving new big money soon. We need the next Kuzma/Herro/Robinson. Players that are cheap but able to play and compensate for the bad decisions we have already made on expensive vets(Ed Davis, Conley)... Most everything good on this team has come from either our picks or UDFAs.
It's a fair point. I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with trading draft picks. But there's definitely a trend of strengths/weaknesses that this FO has. Like you said, almost all of our success comes off the back of draft steals and UDFA's. On the other hand, executing trades when we send out draft picks has not been good.
We need to find another Ingles/O'Neale and probably another Mitchell/Gobert if we're being honest. As much as I would hate to trade our pick, I'd still be willing to do it if it brought us back a player with upside. Finding the next Lowry/Oladipo might be the way we have to do it.
Trading a pick is sometimes good, when you have a healthy cap and lots of flexibility and obvious need... and when the price makes sense. But IMO we are not in that position. We are an aging team with players that are either already overpaid(Conley, Davis) or will likely be overpaid by the end of their contracts(Ingles, Bogdanovic?... depending on the next contract... maybe even Gobert?). We need cheap and/or young players that will outplay their contracts and contribute to wins for cheap.
I've been wondering... about this draft. It might be perfect opportunity to go for someone you really love if teams really don't love the draft. IMO those types of drafts are easier to trade up in. The problem is we don't really have anything to trade up with. But yeah... if someone values some of our assets more than their position in the lottery and we absolutely love some player(similar to how we snatched Mitchell), this might be a good draft to do some maneuvering.
stitches wrote:At some point we have to STOP trading our draft picks and/or players on rookie contracts for old/overpaid vets. We need to target players whose value is likely to exceed their cost salary-wise. We have plenty enough players who are overpaid now. This is especially true in a shrinking market and with Mitchell and Gobert likely receiving new big money soon. We need the next Kuzma/Herro/Robinson. Players that are cheap but able to play and compensate for the bad decisions we have already made on expensive vets(Ed Davis, Conley)... Most everything good on this team has come from either our picks or UDFAs.
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?
The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
Inigo Montoya wrote:So apparently, the Lakers are the new NBA champions. I really didn't notice, I forgot there was even a game yesterday. I suppose congratulations are in order. I'm happy that Rondo got another ring.
I have to say, this season sucked so bad, it was awful. One of the worst seasons for me as a fan that I can remember.
Denizfeital wrote:I was completely rooting for Lebron James (after The Jazz have been eliminated, of course). I don't really care about The Lakers.
He is hands down the best player alive, my favorite current player.
I am really happy for him.
Regards,
Deniz
