What has Jordan achieved without Pippen?

[twyzted]

Pippen, Grant wasn't a big 3?
Pippen, Rodman wasn't a big 3?

Kindly tell me who had a better #2 & #3 option than MJ? MJ already had the deck stacked to the max.

Um no they weren't.

Are you sure about that? I think you're wrong.
Pippen, Grant wasn't a big 3?
Pippen, Rodman wasn't a big 3?

Kindly tell me who had a better #2 & #3 option than MJ? MJ already had the deck stacked to the max. I am still waiting.

If Lebron wins a chip this year it will be his first championship without a big three. So I think Jordan is allowed Pippen who is no AD.

And to answer your question he AVERAGED 45 points his sophmore year in the celtics playoff series without Pippen including 60+ point game on .500+ shooting. This thread is funny to me.

Pippen, Grant wasn't a big 3?
Pippen, Rodman wasn't a big 3?

Kindly tell me who had a better #2 & #3 option than MJ? MJ already had the deck stacked to the max.

Really

90/91
Magic 21 ppg 8 rpg 13 apg
Worthy 21 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Perkins 18 ppg 8 rpg
Scott 13 ppg
Divac 13 ppg 7 rpg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 7 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 15 ppg 8 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 1bpg
Paxson 13 ppg 2 rpg 3 apg 1 spg 0 bpg

91/92
Drexler 26 ppg 7 rpg 7 apg
Porter 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg
Kersey 16 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg
Duckworth 12 ppg 6 rpg
Ainge, cliff robinson, buck williams 10 ppg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 apg 8 rpg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 9 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Paxson 10 ppg 1 rpg 3 apg 1 spg

92/93
Barkley 27 ppg 14 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kevin johnson 18 ppg 3 rpg 8 apg
Majerle 15 ppg 6 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 1 bpg
Richard dumas 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 8 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Bj 14 ppg 2 rpg 5 apg 1 spg
Grant 11 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Last 2 games grant scored 2 point combined with 7 rpg

95/96
Kemp 21 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Payton 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg 2 spg
Schrempf 16 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Perkins 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg
Hawkins 12 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 13 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 1 spg
Longley 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg 2 bpg
Rodman 8 ppg 15 rpg 3 apg

96/97
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg 3 apg 1 spg&bpg
Stockton 16 ppg 4 rpg 10 apg 2 spg
Hornacek 14 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Russell 12 ppg 5 rpg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Kukoc 8 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Bison dele 7 ppg
Rodman 2 ppg 8 rpg

97/98
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg
Stockton 11 ppg 8 apg
Hornacek and russel 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 15 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Rodman 3 ppg 8 rpg
Harper 5 ppg
Kerr 4 ppg

So no 3rd 4th or 5 th bulls player never out played 3rd 4th or 5th best bulls player except for 98.
Payton out played pippen in 96.
In 92 jordan, drexler, pippen, porter, kersey, duckworth

I also pointed this out to you in another thread not even 24 hours ago?

I speechless the answer is on this page?

[Infinite Llamas]

You're proving the point, no?

To erase LBJ's legacy you would need to take away MANY players from LBJ because he could win with many #2 guys in many scenarios. with MJ, you only need to take away one guy and he is nothing. You just had to list 10 guys to discredit LBJ, with MJ we only need to list 1. Do you get it now?

Take away 1 player from both (not 1 and then 10 for the other).

LBJ w/o Wade = 1 (soon to be 2) rings
MJ w/o Pippem = zero rings. Zero playoff series wins

MJ's legacy is 100% tied to Pippen so pay that man some respect. MJ heavily relied on Pippen whereas LBJ could still win without Wade.

Yeah because Lebron was the one that made the decision to jump over to the next team as soon as things were starting to not go his way. The fact that you're trying to punish Jordan for not leaving the Bulls says alot.

Btw Jordan proved otherwise in those many times that Pippen was hurt in the playoffs that he could still lead the Bulls to success. Look at 1998.

There was a before and after Scottie Pippen phase for Jordan as well. Jordan played five seasons without Scottie Pippen. Five seasons. And as the OP kindly asks, "What did Jordan achieve in those five years without Pippen?"

Look at the rest of his roster in the mid-80’s. Makes the 2007 Cavs look like the dream team. The fact Jordan carried that group of ymca rejects to the playoffs is one of the wonders of the modern world. Jordan was an Olympian, college champion, ROY, scoring leader...

Lebron couldn’t get a team to the playoffs with Ingram, Ball and Kuzma. Jordan got the Bulls to the playoffs with Dave Corzine and Brad Sellers and almost took a game from the Celtics.

[OdomFan]

You're proving the point, no?

To erase LBJ's legacy you would need to take away MANY players from LBJ because he could win with many #2 guys in many scenarios. with MJ, you only need to take away one guy and he is nothing. You just had to list 10 guys to discredit LBJ, with MJ we only need to list 1. Do you get it now?

Take away 1 player from both (not 1 and then 10 for the other).

LBJ w/o Wade = 1 (soon to be 2) rings
MJ w/o Pippem = zero rings. Zero playoff series wins

MJ's legacy is 100% tied to Pippen so pay that man some respect. MJ heavily relied on Pippen whereas LBJ could still win without Wade.

Yeah because Lebron was the one that made the decision to jump over to the next team as soon as things were starting to not go his way. The fact that you're trying to punish Jordan for not leaving the Bulls says alot.

Btw Jordan proved otherwise in those many times that Pippen was hurt in the playoffs that he could still lead the Bulls to success. Look at 1998.

There was a before and after Scottie Pippen phase for Jordan as well. Jordan played five seasons without Scottie Pippen. Five seasons. And as the OP kindly asks, "What did Jordan achieve in those five years without Pippen?"

and that question has been answered already multiple times in this thread. Including in the post you just quoted.

[Magic Is Magic]

Um no they weren't.

Are you sure about that? I think you're wrong.
Pippen, Grant wasn't a big 3?
Pippen, Rodman wasn't a big 3?

Kindly tell me who had a better #2 & #3 option than MJ? MJ already had the deck stacked to the max. I am still waiting.

Pippen, Grant wasn't a big 3?
Pippen, Rodman wasn't a big 3?

Kindly tell me who had a better #2 & #3 option than MJ? MJ already had the deck stacked to the max.

Really

90/91
Magic 21 ppg 8 rpg 13 apg
Worthy 21 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Perkins 18 ppg 8 rpg
Scott 13 ppg
Divac 13 ppg 7 rpg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 7 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 15 ppg 8 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 1bpg
Paxson 13 ppg 2 rpg 3 apg 1 spg 0 bpg

91/92
Drexler 26 ppg 7 rpg 7 apg
Porter 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg
Kersey 16 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg
Duckworth 12 ppg 6 rpg
Ainge, cliff robinson, buck williams 10 ppg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 apg 8 rpg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 9 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Paxson 10 ppg 1 rpg 3 apg 1 spg

92/93
Barkley 27 ppg 14 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kevin johnson 18 ppg 3 rpg 8 apg
Majerle 15 ppg 6 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 1 bpg
Richard dumas 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 8 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Bj 14 ppg 2 rpg 5 apg 1 spg
Grant 11 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Last 2 games grant scored 2 point combined with 7 rpg

95/96
Kemp 21 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Payton 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg 2 spg
Schrempf 16 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Perkins 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg
Hawkins 12 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 13 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 1 spg
Longley 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg 2 bpg
Rodman 8 ppg 15 rpg 3 apg

96/97
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg 3 apg 1 spg&bpg
Stockton 16 ppg 4 rpg 10 apg 2 spg
Hornacek 14 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Russell 12 ppg 5 rpg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Kukoc 8 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Bison dele 7 ppg
Rodman 2 ppg 8 rpg

97/98
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg
Stockton 11 ppg 8 apg
Hornacek and russel 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 15 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Rodman 3 ppg 8 rpg
Harper 5 ppg
Kerr 4 ppg

So no 3rd 4th or 5 th bulls player never out played 3rd 4th or 5th best bulls player except for 98.
Payton out played pippen in 96.
In 92 jordan, drexler, pippen, porter, kersey, duckworth

I also pointed this out to you in another thread not even 24 hours ago?

I speechless the answer is on this page?

You're confused but I will be patient and try my best to help you understand.

That post above with all the stats is including opponent #1 options, which makes no sense. The question, simply put and asked a number of times but still going unanswered is: What team has better #2 and #3 options than Pippen and Grant?

Then you send in a post with Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone, and Magic Johnson when all of these players are clear #1 options not #2 or #3 options? Plus the funny part is you are proving the point that MJ's teams were that stacked that you needed to compare their 1st option to the Bull's #2 option. So again, simply put, and please read it this time, I kindly ask you:

Which opponents that MJ faced had better #2 and #3 options than Pippen and Grant?

[Magic Is Magic]

Yeah because Lebron was the one that made the decision to jump over to the next team as soon as things were starting to not go his way. The fact that you're trying to punish Jordan for not leaving the Bulls says alot.

Btw Jordan proved otherwise in those many times that Pippen was hurt in the playoffs that he could still lead the Bulls to success. Look at 1998.

There was a before and after Scottie Pippen phase for Jordan as well. Jordan played five seasons without Scottie Pippen. Five seasons. And as the OP kindly asks, "What did Jordan achieve in those five years without Pippen?"

Look at the rest of his roster in the mid-80’s. Makes the 2007 Cavs look like the dream team. The fact Jordan carried that group of ymca rejects to the playoffs is one of the wonders of the modern world. Jordan was an Olympian, college champion, ROY, scoring leader...

Lebron couldn’t get a team to the playoffs with Ingram, Ball and Kuzma. Jordan got the Bulls to the playoffs with Dave Corzine and Brad Sellers and almost took a game from the Celtics.

In the 1986 playoffs MJ was swept with Orlando Woolridge, the #2 option and a 20 ppg scorer in the PO and had a 22 ppg RS average with Michael and the Bulls. Did you forget him? Don't do that.

In the 1987 playoffs MJ was swept with Charles Oakley, the #2 option and a 20 and 15 player in the PO. Did you forget him too? Don't do that either.

[twyzted]

Are you sure about that? I think you're wrong.
Pippen, Grant wasn't a big 3?
Pippen, Rodman wasn't a big 3?

Kindly tell me who had a better #2 & #3 option than MJ? MJ already had the deck stacked to the max. I am still waiting.

Really

90/91
Magic 21 ppg 8 rpg 13 apg
Worthy 21 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Perkins 18 ppg 8 rpg
Scott 13 ppg
Divac 13 ppg 7 rpg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 7 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 15 ppg 8 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 1bpg
Paxson 13 ppg 2 rpg 3 apg 1 spg 0 bpg

91/92
Drexler 26 ppg 7 rpg 7 apg
Porter 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg
Kersey 16 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg
Duckworth 12 ppg 6 rpg
Ainge, cliff robinson, buck williams 10 ppg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 apg 8 rpg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 9 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Paxson 10 ppg 1 rpg 3 apg 1 spg

92/93
Barkley 27 ppg 14 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kevin johnson 18 ppg 3 rpg 8 apg
Majerle 15 ppg 6 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 1 bpg
Richard dumas 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 8 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Bj 14 ppg 2 rpg 5 apg 1 spg
Grant 11 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Last 2 games grant scored 2 point combined with 7 rpg

95/96
Kemp 21 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Payton 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg 2 spg
Schrempf 16 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Perkins 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg
Hawkins 12 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 13 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 1 spg
Longley 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg 2 bpg
Rodman 8 ppg 15 rpg 3 apg

96/97
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg 3 apg 1 spg&bpg
Stockton 16 ppg 4 rpg 10 apg 2 spg
Hornacek 14 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Russell 12 ppg 5 rpg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Kukoc 8 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Bison dele 7 ppg
Rodman 2 ppg 8 rpg

97/98
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg
Stockton 11 ppg 8 apg
Hornacek and russel 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 15 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Rodman 3 ppg 8 rpg
Harper 5 ppg
Kerr 4 ppg

So no 3rd 4th or 5 th bulls player never out played 3rd 4th or 5th best bulls player except for 98.
Payton out played pippen in 96.
In 92 jordan, drexler, pippen, porter, kersey, duckworth

I also pointed this out to you in another thread not even 24 hours ago?

I speechless the answer is on this page?

You're confused but I will be patient and try my best to help you understand.

That post above with all the stats is including opponent #1 options, which makes no sense. The question, simply put and asked a number of times but still going unanswered is: What team has better #2 and #3 options than Pippen and Grant?

Then you send in a post with Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone, and Magic Johnson when all of these players are clear #1 options not #2 or #3 options? Plus the funny part is you are proving the point that MJ's teams were that stacked that you needed to compare their 1st option to the Bull's #2 option. So again, simply put, and please read it this time, I kindly ask you:

Which opponents that MJ faced had better #2 and #3 options than Pippen and Grant?

How am i confused when i answer it in the quoted post?
I dont think i have to state that Jordan always outplayed the #1 on the other team? Or do i? Hes the goat after all.
You dont have to very smart to understand my list i would think?
It has #2,3,4 on the bulls on every year.
Gary payton outplayed pippen in 96.
Hawkins outplayed kukoc in 96.
Perkins outplayed longley.
Majerle outplayed grant in 93.
Vs trailblazers jordan outplayed drexler, pippen porter but then blazers team was much deeper then the bulls.
Same with suns.
Sonics deeper then the bulls.
97 its was jordan and pippen only guys over 8 ppg.

So tldr.
Pippen was 1 time outplayed by #2. (91 worthy was close)
1 time the #3 on the bulls outplayed #3 on the other team.
Outside of 98 the opponents teams were deeper then the bulls.
I hope i dont have to answer the question for the 3or4 time in 24 hours.

[spikeslovechild]

Pippen, Grant wasn't a big 3?
Pippen, Rodman wasn't a big 3?

Kindly tell me who had a better #2 & #3 option than MJ? MJ already had the deck stacked to the max.

Um no they weren't.

Are you sure about that? I think you're wrong.
Pippen, Grant wasn't a big 3?
Pippen, Rodman wasn't a big 3?

Kindly tell me who had a better #2 & #3 option than MJ? MJ already had the deck stacked to the max. I am still waiting.

I am not going to go through every year to try and jog my memory but I remember Seattle having the glove, eddie johnson, perkins, price and kemp. I remember detriot having dumars, lambier, rodman, and Dantley. I remember Utah having Malone, Stockton, Hornacek. I remember portland having drexler, clifford robinson, porter, and rod strickland.

I'd take those groups yes over a 34 year old dennis rodman and Horace Grant.

[Infinite Llamas]

There was a before and after Scottie Pippen phase for Jordan as well. Jordan played five seasons without Scottie Pippen. Five seasons. And as the OP kindly asks, "What did Jordan achieve in those five years without Pippen?"

Look at the rest of his roster in the mid-80’s. Makes the 2007 Cavs look like the dream team. The fact Jordan carried that group of ymca rejects to the playoffs is one of the wonders of the modern world. Jordan was an Olympian, college champion, ROY, scoring leader...

Lebron couldn’t get a team to the playoffs with Ingram, Ball and Kuzma. Jordan got the Bulls to the playoffs with Dave Corzine and Brad Sellers and almost took a game from the Celtics.

In the 1986 playoffs MJ was swept with Orlando Woolridge, the #2 option and a 20 ppg scorer in the PO and had a 22 ppg RS average with Michael and the Bulls. Did you forget him? Don't do that.

In the 1987 playoffs MJ was swept with Charles Oakley, the #2 option and a 20 and 15 player in the PO. Did you forget him too? Don't do that either.

Having Oakley as a second option would be like having Horace Grant as a second option. It won’t work. Woolridge was an explosive slasher but had major drug issues and didn’t contribute much outside of ppg. He had roles on some good teams but was miscast as a #2.

[The_Hater]

Why is nobody asking ‘what has Kobe Bryant achieved without Derek Fisher?’

Such a dumb thread.

Derek Fisher was not Kobe's #2 option, nice try but you'll need to be better than that. The premise is clear, as we are talking about #1 and #2 options so I kindly ask that you please stay in tune with the discussion. Kobe's #2 option from 2008 and onward would be Gasol, not Derek Fisher. Derek Fisher was an 8 ppg #5 option in the 2009 playoffs and a 10 ppg #4 option in the 2010 playoffs.

Fisher wasn’t the #2? No ****. I NEVER knew that. I thought Fisher should have played in 12 allstar games and just got screwed...

At least you’re smart enough to recognize that Jordan, not Pippen, was the #1 which confirms the stupidity of this entire topic.

[Zenzibar]

Yeah because Lebron was the one that made the decision to jump over to the next team as soon as things were starting to not go his way. The fact that you're trying to punish Jordan for not leaving the Bulls says alot.

Btw Jordan proved otherwise in those many times that Pippen was hurt in the playoffs that he could still lead the Bulls to success. Look at 1998.

There was a before and after Scottie Pippen phase for Jordan as well. Jordan played five seasons without Scottie Pippen. Five seasons. And as the OP kindly asks, "What did Jordan achieve in those five years without Pippen?"

Look at the rest of his roster in the mid-80’s. Makes the 2007 Cavs look like the dream team. The fact Jordan carried that group of ymca rejects to the playoffs is one of the wonders of the modern world. Jordan was an Olympian, college champion, ROY, scoring leader...

Lebron couldn’t get a team to the playoffs with Ingram, Ball and Kuzma. Jordan got the Bulls to the playoffs with Dave Corzine and Brad Sellers and almost took a game from the Celtics.

Not only that, but Pippen was a young puppy and a 4 year pro Michael was easily carrying those Bulls teams until Scottie grew up in the game.

Just compare the young superstar Mike and the contributions rookie Scottie Pippen were making during the first Piston series.
You recollect what Mike was doing to the league.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&ei=v4aDX4mGNcbH_QbwkJ7ICQ&q=1988+bulls+playoffs&oq=1988+bulls+playoffs&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzICCAAyBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQCBAeMgYIABAIEB46BAgAEEdQwxBY3hVg6hhoAHACeACAAUWIAYgBkgEBMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQjAAQE&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjJ4fT2yq3sAhXGY98KHXCIB5kQ4dUDCAw&uact=5#sie=m;/g/11fm9xsx9h;3;/m/05jvx;tb2;fp;1;;

[Zenzibar]

If Lebron wins a chip this year it will be his first championship without a big three. So I think Jordan is allowed Pippen who is no AD.

And to answer your question he AVERAGED 45 points his sophmore year in the celtics playoff series without Pippen including 60+ point game on .500+ shooting. This thread is funny to me.

Pippen, Grant wasn't a big 3?
Pippen, Rodman wasn't a big 3?

Kindly tell me who had a better #2 & #3 option than MJ? MJ already had the deck stacked to the max.

Really

90/91
Magic 21 ppg 8 rpg 13 apg
Worthy 21 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Perkins 18 ppg 8 rpg
Scott 13 ppg
Divac 13 ppg 7 rpg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 7 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 15 ppg 8 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 1bpg
Paxson 13 ppg 2 rpg 3 apg 1 spg 0 bpg

91/92
Drexler 26 ppg 7 rpg 7 apg
Porter 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg
Kersey 16 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg
Duckworth 12 ppg 6 rpg
Ainge, cliff robinson, buck williams 10 ppg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 apg 8 rpg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 9 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Paxson 10 ppg 1 rpg 3 apg 1 spg

92/93
Barkley 27 ppg 14 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kevin johnson 18 ppg 3 rpg 8 apg
Majerle 15 ppg 6 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 1 bpg
Richard dumas 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 8 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Bj 14 ppg 2 rpg 5 apg 1 spg
Grant 11 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Last 2 games grant scored 2 point combined with 7 rpg

95/96
Kemp 21 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Payton 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg 2 spg
Schrempf 16 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Perkins 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg
Hawkins 12 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 13 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 1 spg
Longley 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg 2 bpg
Rodman 8 ppg 15 rpg 3 apg

96/97
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg 3 apg 1 spg&bpg
Stockton 16 ppg 4 rpg 10 apg 2 spg
Hornacek 14 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Russell 12 ppg 5 rpg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Kukoc 8 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Bison dele 7 ppg
Rodman 2 ppg 8 rpg

97/98
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg
Stockton 11 ppg 8 apg
Hornacek and russel 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 15 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Rodman 3 ppg 8 rpg
Harper 5 ppg
Kerr 4 ppg

So no 3rd 4th or 5 th bulls player never out played 3rd 4th or 5th best bulls player except for 98.
Payton out played pippen in 96.
In 92 jordan, drexler, pippen, porter, kersey, duckworth

I also pointed this out to you in another thread not even 24 hours ago?

Why did you leave out Mike's contributions?

[twyzted]

Pippen, Grant wasn't a big 3?
Pippen, Rodman wasn't a big 3?

Kindly tell me who had a better #2 & #3 option than MJ? MJ already had the deck stacked to the max.

Really

90/91
Magic 21 ppg 8 rpg 13 apg
Worthy 21 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Perkins 18 ppg 8 rpg
Scott 13 ppg
Divac 13 ppg 7 rpg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 7 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 15 ppg 8 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 1bpg
Paxson 13 ppg 2 rpg 3 apg 1 spg 0 bpg

91/92
Drexler 26 ppg 7 rpg 7 apg
Porter 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg
Kersey 16 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg
Duckworth 12 ppg 6 rpg
Ainge, cliff robinson, buck williams 10 ppg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 apg 8 rpg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 9 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Paxson 10 ppg 1 rpg 3 apg 1 spg

92/93
Barkley 27 ppg 14 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kevin johnson 18 ppg 3 rpg 8 apg
Majerle 15 ppg 6 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 1 bpg
Richard dumas 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 8 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Bj 14 ppg 2 rpg 5 apg 1 spg
Grant 11 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Last 2 games grant scored 2 point combined with 7 rpg

95/96
Kemp 21 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Payton 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg 2 spg
Schrempf 16 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Perkins 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg
Hawkins 12 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 13 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 1 spg
Longley 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg 2 bpg
Rodman 8 ppg 15 rpg 3 apg

96/97
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg 3 apg 1 spg&bpg
Stockton 16 ppg 4 rpg 10 apg 2 spg
Hornacek 14 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Russell 12 ppg 5 rpg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Kukoc 8 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Bison dele 7 ppg
Rodman 2 ppg 8 rpg

97/98
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg
Stockton 11 ppg 8 apg
Hornacek and russel 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 15 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Rodman 3 ppg 8 rpg
Harper 5 ppg
Kerr 4 ppg

So no 3rd 4th or 5 th bulls player never out played 3rd 4th or 5th best bulls player except for 98.
Payton out played pippen in 96.
In 92 jordan, drexler, pippen, porter, kersey, duckworth

I also pointed this out to you in another thread not even 24 hours ago?

Why did you leave out Mike's contributions?

I already answered it just couple of post above this one???????¿
Its not a questiom if mike outperformed the other guys #1. I know its hard to understand but he was never outplayed by the other teams #1 NEVER.

That is something i dont think has ever been questioned like ever...

31 ppg 7 rpg 11 apg 3 spg 1 bpg on 56% 50% 85% while guarding magic
36 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg 2 spg on 53% 43% 89%
41 ppg 9 rpg 6 apg 2 spg 1bpg on 51% 40% 70%
27 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 2spg on 42% 32% 84%
32 ppg 7 rpg 6 apg 1spg on 46% 32% 76%
34 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg 2 spg on 43% 32% 81%

[Magic Is Magic]

Why is nobody asking ‘what has Kobe Bryant achieved without Derek Fisher?’

Such a dumb thread.

Derek Fisher was not Kobe's #2 option, nice try but you'll need to be better than that. The premise is clear, as we are talking about #1 and #2 options so I kindly ask that you please stay in tune with the discussion. Kobe's #2 option from 2008 and onward would be Gasol, not Derek Fisher. Derek Fisher was an 8 ppg #5 option in the 2009 playoffs and a 10 ppg #4 option in the 2010 playoffs.

Fisher wasn’t the #2? No ****. I NEVER knew that. I thought Fisher should have played in 12 allstar games and just got screwed...

At least you’re smart enough to recognize that Jordan, not Pippen, was the #1 which confirms the stupidity of this entire topic.

Exactly, so why are you bringing up a #5 option in a #2 option discussion? Please try to stay focused during our discussions. Please and thank you.

[Zenzibar]

Really

90/91
Magic 21 ppg 8 rpg 13 apg
Worthy 21 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Perkins 18 ppg 8 rpg
Scott 13 ppg
Divac 13 ppg 7 rpg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 7 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 15 ppg 8 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 1bpg
Paxson 13 ppg 2 rpg 3 apg 1 spg 0 bpg

91/92
Drexler 26 ppg 7 rpg 7 apg
Porter 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg
Kersey 16 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg
Duckworth 12 ppg 6 rpg
Ainge, cliff robinson, buck williams 10 ppg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 apg 8 rpg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 9 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Paxson 10 ppg 1 rpg 3 apg 1 spg

92/93
Barkley 27 ppg 14 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kevin johnson 18 ppg 3 rpg 8 apg
Majerle 15 ppg 6 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 1 bpg
Richard dumas 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 8 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Bj 14 ppg 2 rpg 5 apg 1 spg
Grant 11 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Last 2 games grant scored 2 point combined with 7 rpg

95/96
Kemp 21 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Payton 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg 2 spg
Schrempf 16 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Perkins 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg
Hawkins 12 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 13 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 1 spg
Longley 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg 2 bpg
Rodman 8 ppg 15 rpg 3 apg

96/97
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg 3 apg 1 spg&bpg
Stockton 16 ppg 4 rpg 10 apg 2 spg
Hornacek 14 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Russell 12 ppg 5 rpg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Kukoc 8 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Bison dele 7 ppg
Rodman 2 ppg 8 rpg

97/98
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg
Stockton 11 ppg 8 apg
Hornacek and russel 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 15 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Rodman 3 ppg 8 rpg
Harper 5 ppg
Kerr 4 ppg

So no 3rd 4th or 5 th bulls player never out played 3rd 4th or 5th best bulls player except for 98.
Payton out played pippen in 96.
In 92 jordan, drexler, pippen, porter, kersey, duckworth

I also pointed this out to you in another thread not even 24 hours ago?

Why did you leave out Mike's contributions?

I already answered it just couple of post above this one???????¿
Its not a questiom if mike outperformed the other guys #1. I know its hard to understand but he was never outplayed by the other teams #1 NEVER.

That is something i dont think has ever been questioned like ever...

31 ppg 7 rpg 11 apg 3 spg 1 bpg on 56% 50% 85% while guarding magic
36 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg 2 spg on 53% 43% 89%
41 ppg 9 rpg 6 apg 2 spg 1bpg on 51% 40% 70%
27 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 2spg on 42% 32% 84%
32 ppg 7 rpg 6 apg 1spg on 46% 32% 76%
34 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg 2 spg on 43% 32% 81%

Didn't read the earlier posts, came in late.. haha

But yeah, as a long time Knicks fan, Mike was just on another level and as worshipped Internationally as Ali.

[Magic Is Magic]

I am patiently waiting for an answer from any MJ fan whenever you get a moment. Let's try to keep this focused to #2 and #3 options (AKA, help) which means stop posting #1 option stats because all you're doing is proving my point.

My point: MJ by far had the best help in the league. His #2 and #3 options were always better than his opponent's #2 and #3 option. If you agree, remain silent. If you disagree then kindly answer:

Which opponents that MJ faced had a better #2 and #3 options than Pippen and Grant?

[twyzted]

I am patiently waiting for an answer from any MJ fan whenever you get a moment. Let's try to keep this focused to #2 and #3 options (AKA, help) which means stop posting #1 option stats because all you're doing is proving my point.

My point: MJ by far had the best help in the league. His #2 and #3 options were always better than his opponent's #2 and #3 option. If you agree, remain silent. If you disagree then kindly answer:

Which opponents that MJ faced had a better #2 and #3 options than Pippen and Grant?

Every team except 98 bulls had the better #3 option.
1 time #2 and #3 outplayed #2&#3 on the bulls.

[Zenzibar]

I am patiently waiting for an answer from any MJ fan whenever you get a moment. Let's try to keep this focused to #2 and #3 options (AKA, help) which means stop posting #1 option stats because all you're doing is proving my point.

My point: MJ by far had the best help in the league. His #2 and #3 options were always better than his opponent's #2 and #3 option. If you agree, remain silent. If you disagree then kindly answer:

Which opponents that MJ faced had a better #2 and #3 options than Pippen and Grant?

I posted that already.

Pippen was drafted in 1988 and the following year a superstar 4 year Michael took the Bulls to the Eastern Conference Finals against the favorites Detrot Pistons. Mike had no help.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&ei=v4aDX4mGNcbH_QbwkJ7ICQ&q=1988+bulls+playoffs&oq=1988+bulls+playoffs&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzICCAAyBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQCBAeMgYIABAIEB46BAgAEEdQwxBY3hVg6hhoAHACeACAAUWIAYgBkgEBMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQjAAQE&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjJ4fT2yq3sAhXGY98KHXCIB5kQ4dUDCAw&uact=5

Pippen grew up fast and became a star by his second year. Without whom those Bulls Chips would not have been as many, have to agree.

Taking about little of everything, 1986 Len Bias would have been Pippen before Pippen.
Let's just say that if Len Bias wouldn't have OD'd on cocaine right after being drafted #2 and have been added to Larry and them, Boston would have won 2-3 more.

Back to your point, one can see it differently too. The reason the Bulls had a dynasty run was due to the drafting of Pippen, no question.
So then the Bulls drafted 2 evolutionally players and Lebron has been like a mercenary, never staying long enough to create a dynasty of his own.

[Coco Costanza]

Why are there so many threads these days trying to discredit Jordan?

Look at it this way.

LeBron doesn't win a championship without

Dwane Wade
Chris Bosh
Ray Allen
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Love
Anthony Davis (assuming the Lakers win)


Jordan doesn't win a championship without

Pippen

Needing to take 6 guys away to discredit LeBron? You're proving the point, no?

To erase LBJ's legacy you would need to take away MANY players from LBJ because he could win with many guys in many scenarios. But with MJ, you only need to take away one guy and he is nothing. You just had to list 6 guys to discredit LBJ, with MJ we only need to list 1. Do you get it now?

Take away 1 player from both (not 1 and then 6 for the other, how does that even make sense).

LBJ w/o Wade = 1 ring (soon to be 2)
MJ w/o Pippem = zero rings. Zero playoff series wins as well

MJ's legacy is 100% tied to Pippen so pay that man some respect. MJ heavily relied on Pippen whereas LBJ could still win without Wade.

The point is, LeBron has played with more stars than Jordan has. To say MJ is nothing without Pippen is idiocy since the NBA was a very different league than what it is today. Guys weren't calling each other up in off season to join forces. Jordan wasn't leaving the Bulls to play for the Pistons. What's more, Pippen wasn't a star that was added to the team, nor did he make the Bulls immediately good. It took several years for him to develop into That's not to take away how important Pippen is to Jordan, but let's not act like Jordan was a bum without him.

And your "LBJ w/o Wade" comparison is just ridiculous, since you're removing one player, but ignoring the other all star players he adds.

[Zenzibar]

Why are there so many threads these days trying to discredit Jordan?

Look at it this way.

LeBron doesn't win a championship without

Dwane Wade
Chris Bosh
Ray Allen
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Love
Anthony Davis (assuming the Lakers win)


Jordan doesn't win a championship without

Pippen

Needing to take 6 guys away to discredit LeBron? You're proving the point, no?

To erase LBJ's legacy you would need to take away MANY players from LBJ because he could win with many guys in many scenarios. But with MJ, you only need to take away one guy and he is nothing. You just had to list 6 guys to discredit LBJ, with MJ we only need to list 1. Do you get it now?

Take away 1 player from both (not 1 and then 6 for the other, how does that even make sense).

LBJ w/o Wade = 1 ring (soon to be 2)
MJ w/o Pippem = zero rings. Zero playoff series wins as well

MJ's legacy is 100% tied to Pippen so pay that man some respect. MJ heavily relied on Pippen whereas LBJ could still win without Wade.

The point is, LeBron has played with more stars than Jordan has. To say MJ is nothing without Pippen is idiocy since the NBA was a very different league than what it is today. Guys weren't calling each other up in off season to join forces. Jordan wasn't leaving the Bulls to play for the Pistons. What's more, Pippen wasn't a star that was added to the team, nor did he make the Bulls immediately good. It took several years for him to develop into That's not to take away how important Pippen is to Jordan, but let's not act like Jordan was a bum without him.

And your "LBJ w/o Wade" comparison is just ridiculous, since you're removing one player, but ignoring the other all star players he adds.

Not quite true. By his 2nd year, Pippen climb to #2 contributor on the 1990 team that took down the Lakers for the 1st Chip.

My only point is that Michael stayed long enough to create, one can say, 2 dynasties:1990 -1992 and again in 1996-1998.

[Coco Costanza]

Needing to take 6 guys away to discredit LeBron? You're proving the point, no?

To erase LBJ's legacy you would need to take away MANY players from LBJ because he could win with many guys in many scenarios. But with MJ, you only need to take away one guy and he is nothing. You just had to list 6 guys to discredit LBJ, with MJ we only need to list 1. Do you get it now?

Take away 1 player from both (not 1 and then 6 for the other, how does that even make sense).

LBJ w/o Wade = 1 ring (soon to be 2)
MJ w/o Pippem = zero rings. Zero playoff series wins as well

MJ's legacy is 100% tied to Pippen so pay that man some respect. MJ heavily relied on Pippen whereas LBJ could still win without Wade.

The point is, LeBron has played with more stars than Jordan has. To say MJ is nothing without Pippen is idiocy since the NBA was a very different league than what it is today. Guys weren't calling each other up in off season to join forces. Jordan wasn't leaving the Bulls to play for the Pistons. What's more, Pippen wasn't a star that was added to the team, nor did he make the Bulls immediately good. It took several years for him to develop into That's not to take away how important Pippen is to Jordan, but let's not act like Jordan was a bum without him.

And your "LBJ w/o Wade" comparison is just ridiculous, since you're removing one player, but ignoring the other all star players he adds.

Not quite true. By his 2nd year, Pippen climb to #2 contributor on the 1990 team that took down the Lakers for the 1st Chip

1990 wasn't Pippen's second year, he started playing in 1987. And it was the 1991 team that beat the Lakers, not 1990. They lost to the Pistons in 7 in 1990.