2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[HeartBreakKid]

WarriorGM is slowly coming to terms that GSW's era might be over and that most people are never going to seriously consider Curry over James again.

[PaulieWal]

WarriorGM is slowly coming to terms that GSW's era might be over and that most people are never going to seriously consider Curry over James again.

After 2016 no one really considered Curry over James and even when the Warriors won in 17 and 18, sure there were some claiming that it was KD who was better than Bron but Curry was out of those conversation after 2016. What you gonna do huh

[HeartBreakKid]

WarriorGM is slowly coming to terms that GSW's era might be over and that most people are never going to seriously consider Curry over James again.

After 2016 no one really considered Curry over James and even when the Warriors won in 17 and 18, sure there were some claiming that it was KD who was better than Bron but Curry was out of those conversation after 2016. What you gonna do huh

Yeah you're right, but I guess if you're a big Warrior/Curry fan you can somehow say the ring argument (even though they had an equal amount of rings lol, I feel like GSW homers forgot that for some reason)

[colts18]

My order:

1. LeBron
2. Greek Freak
3. AD
4. Jokic
5. Kawhi
6. Doncic
7. Butler
8. Harden

[kayess]

2017 was the GOAT year and you probably don't trade it in for anything else, but could Curry have maintained his 2016 level had he not have to accommodate KD? I mean, Barnes makes open 3s at a not WOAT level and the Warriors win. It's kinda sad, Curry not being able to challenge LeBron is actually high up on my reasons to hate on KD lmao.

So another likely 100% POY share from Bron. Where does this put him in the list of 100% POY wins? Total POY wins? Lifetime POY shares?

[Joey Wheeler]

1-Anthony Davis
2-Lebron James
3-Nikola Jokic
4-James Harden
5-Jimmy Butler

#1 and #2 are absolute locks, 3 to 5 will need further thought/consideration.

OPOY is a very easy ballot:

1-Lebron
2-Harden
3-Jokic

DPOY not easy at all aside from AD as a clear #1.

[therealbig3]

The eternally underwhelming player being praised to the high heavens while his teammates are blamed for stinking things up yet again. A broken record if I've ever heard one.

There are people who actually see the discrepancies in the common narratives unlike yourself and want to get to the bottom of the matter.

Close observers of the Curry and Durant partnership may have an idea of what is going on with AD and LeBron. The rest of you will have to remain ignorant.

Enjoy the Lakers 17th Championship led by the POY Lebron James and Runner up Anthony Davis. Hopefully next season isn't underwhelming for sir Isaac Newton over there with his healed up hangnail-excuse me-horrific season-ending hand injury

LMAO, seriously, Curry milked the hell out of his injury. 100% convinced he opted to sit out the season to avoid the legacy hit of leading a team as bad as this year's Warriors and all the criticisms of how he can't carry a team without KD and Klay (warranted or not).

[Joey Wheeler]

The eternally underwhelming player being praised to the high heavens while his teammates are blamed for stinking things up yet again. A broken record if I've ever heard one.

There are people who actually see the discrepancies in the common narratives unlike yourself and want to get to the bottom of the matter.

Close observers of the Curry and Durant partnership may have an idea of what is going on with AD and LeBron. The rest of you will have to remain ignorant.

Enjoy the Lakers 17th Championship led by the POY Lebron James and Runner up Anthony Davis. Hopefully next season isn't underwhelming for sir Isaac Newton over there with his healed up hangnail-excuse me-horrific season-ending hand injury

It'll be very underwhelming. The Warriors have no chance to challenge the Lakers at all and no amount of gravity will change that.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Lebron finishes with 30-12-8.5 on 67.1TS

AD with 25-11-3-1-2 (with some top tier DPOY defense) On 66.9TS

[Doctor MJ]

So how does this game change people's opinions of Butler? Felt like there was a lot of winning bias - did Butler truly ascend to a different level and become a different tier of player overall? For those 2 games, absolutely. Does that make him a top 5 player though?

I mean, those 2 games allowed the Heat to have the most success against the Lakers of any team in the post-season. Take those two away and we're talking a sweep with the Heat as the easiest opponent for the Lakers. I understand the reluctance to give too much credence to such a small sample size, but that's what Butler accomplished in the Finals on the back of leading this underdog team to a gentleman's sweep over the best regular season team in the league.

For me there's a real question that I'm looking forward to hearing folks chime in on:

If a 100% AD can have as much of an effect on Butler as he seems to have been able to, how impressed should we be that Butler was able to have the massive success he had against other Laker match ups?

As in, I don't really feel like Butler's play in his 2 big games was that fluky - I think he could make those reads and hit those shots generally - but it is in the end a leaky faucet that at least the Lakers can shut off, maybe it's not as impressive as it looks.

Anyway in terms of my thoughts at this point:

Without considering Butler, I currently have it as:

1. LeBron
2. AD
3. Jokic
4. Giannis
5. Kawhi

I'm finding myself thinking that Butler has some pretty good arguments relative to Jokic & Giannis, so I may put Butler as high as 3rd.

[kayess]

So how does this game change people's opinions of Butler? Felt like there was a lot of winning bias - did Butler truly ascend to a different level and become a different tier of player overall? For those 2 games, absolutely. Does that make him a top 5 player though?

I mean, those 2 games allowed the Heat to have the most success against the Lakers of any team in the post-season. Take those two away and we're talking a sweep with the Heat as the easiest opponent for the Lakers. I understand the reluctance to give too much credence to such a small sample size, but that's what Butler accomplished in the Finals on the back of leading this underdog team to a gentleman's sweep over the best regular season team in the league.

For me there's a real question that I'm looking forward to hearing folks chime in on:

If a 100% AD can have as much of an effect on Butler as he seems to have been able to, how impressed should we be that Butler was able to have the massive success he had against other Laker match ups?

As in, I don't really feel like Butler's play in his 2 big games was that fluky - I think he could make those reads and hit those shots generally - but it is in the end a leaky faucet that at least the Lakers can shut off, maybe it's not as impressive as it looks.

Anyway in terms of my thoughts at this point:

Without considering Butler, I currently have it as:

1. LeBron
2. AD
3. Jokic
4. Giannis
5. Kawhi

I'm finding myself thinking that Butler has some pretty good arguments relative to Jokic & Giannis, so I may put Butler as high as 3rd.

Oh I don't doubt he can make those reads for sure, but some of the hits - just crazy contested mid range turn around Js and contested looks even at the rim (felt like he was shooting 90% on those, but 75% seems reasonable). Don't know what the actual numbers are, but it sure felt like it at times, because I was surprised literally any time he missed. It's like LeBron Game 6 2012 ECF - he hasn't had many jump shooting performances on that level, and while it's a credit to him, it doesn't really change who he fundamentally is as a player (G7 2012 ECF's a better 'baseline' for that)

[Baski]

The eternally underwhelming player being praised to the high heavens while his teammates are blamed for stinking things up yet again. A broken record if I've ever heard one.

There are people who actually see the discrepancies in the common narratives unlike yourself and want to get to the bottom of the matter.

Close observers of the Curry and Durant partnership may have an idea of what is going on with AD and LeBron. The rest of you will have to remain ignorant.

Enjoy the Lakers 17th Championship led by the POY Lebron James and Runner up Anthony Davis. Hopefully next season isn't underwhelming for sir Isaac Newton over there with his healed up hangnail-excuse me-horrific season-ending hand injury

It'll be very underwhelming. The Warriors have no chance to challenge the Lakers at all and no amount of gravity will change that.

I honestly have no idea how it'll shake out, but I'll damn sure be looking out for where the Warriors finish.
A lot of myths have been dying horrible deaths in recent years' playoffs

Playoff Kyrie the guaranteed baller
Playoff Kawhi the guaranteed title
Lebron the big man killer
The wild wild West

Next season we'll see how "Gravity just started in 2016 and negates bad games lolz" holds up

[WarriorGM]

WarriorGM is slowly coming to terms that GSW's era might be over and that most people are never going to seriously consider Curry over James again.

I considered the Lakers the presumptive favorites at the beginning of this season and I actually questioned why the Clippers were considered favored over them way back when. So none of this is surprising or unexpected for me. Maybe some of you late comers depending on others to analyze things for you are once again led to change your minds on how things stand but it's been constant for some time now. Nothing that happened this year really changed anything except improving Butler's stock. Did we really learn anything else?

[Dupp]

WarriorGM is slowly coming to terms that GSW's era might be over and that most people are never going to seriously consider Curry over James again.

I considered the Lakers the presumptive favorites at the beginning of this season and I actually questioned why the Clippers were considered favored over them way back when. So none of this is surprising or unexpected for me. Maybe some of you late comers depending on others to analyze things for you are once again led to change your minds on how things stand but it's been constant for some time now. Nothing that happened this year really changed anything except improving Butler's stock. Did we really learn anything else?

Kawhi - overrated
AD - Underrated
Butler- Underrated. ( especially off court)


Probably the biggest take aways from the season as far as individuals go

[70sFan]

I don't agree that Kawhi is overrated. Sure, he's not on James level (never was), but nobody reasonable called him GOAT. To me he's still one of the best players in the league and underperforming in last 2 games against the Nuggets didn't make his last season run disappear.

[kayess]

I don't agree that Kawhi is overrated. Sure, he's not on James level (never was), but nobody reasonable called him GOAT. To me he's still one of the best players in the league and underperforming in last 2 games against the Nuggets didn't make his last season run disappear.

I think a lot of the people outside the basketball intelligentsia put him on James' level though, which is why Dupp is calling him overrated

[GSP]

WarriorGM is slowly coming to terms that GSW's era might be over and that most people are never going to seriously consider Curry over James again.

I considered the Lakers the presumptive favorites at the beginning of this season and I actually questioned why the Clippers were considered favored over them way back when. So none of this is surprising or unexpected for me. Maybe some of you late comers depending on others to analyze things for you are once again led to change your minds on how things stand but it's been constant for some time now. Nothing that happened this year really changed anything except improving Butler's stock. Did we really learn anything else?

Kawhi - overrated
AD - Underrated
Butler- Underrated. ( especially off court)


Probably the biggest take aways from the season as far as individuals go

Giannis is more overrated than Kawhi TBH

He repeated Mvp and got a **** Dpoy too

Ppl who underrated the Raptors badly thought Kawhi was some auto title but overall he still had a great season and was great in the playoffs before that dreadful game 7

[70sFan]

I don't agree that Kawhi is overrated. Sure, he's not on James level (never was), but nobody reasonable called him GOAT. To me he's still one of the best players in the league and underperforming in last 2 games against the Nuggets didn't make his last season run disappear.

I think a lot of the people outside the basketball intelligentsia put him on James' level though, which is why Dupp is calling him overrated

Yeah, but at the same time James gave us questions about his level of play before playoffs, not all expected from James such a good postseason run. Saying that Kawhi is comparable to 2020 RS James is nothing wrong, but James proved again that his prime is timeless and nobody (again, reasonable) would pick Kawhi over prime James.

There are people who believe that Kawhi is better than peak James of course, but most of them are LeBron trolls.

[kayess]

I don't agree that Kawhi is overrated. Sure, he's not on James level (never was), but nobody reasonable called him GOAT. To me he's still one of the best players in the league and underperforming in last 2 games against the Nuggets didn't make his last season run disappear.

I think a lot of the people outside the basketball intelligentsia put him on James' level though, which is why Dupp is calling him overrated

Yeah, but at the same time James gave us questions about his level of play before playoffs, not all expected from James such a good postseason run. Saying that Kawhi is comparable to 2020 RS James is nothing wrong, but James proved again that his prime is timeless and nobody (again, reasonable) would pick Kawhi over prime James.

There are people who believe that Kawhi is better than peak James of course, but most of them are LeBron trolls.

I mean I think LeBron was starting to turn the corner in those Clippers/Bucks matchups so I did expect him to have a pretty good postseason. Idk how this one ranks with his other runs, but I did expect a good-enough performance to win the title, and that a lot would depend on the role players' shooting/would AD be the best player on the floor against the Clips and all that

[70sFan]

I think a lot of the people outside the basketball intelligentsia put him on James' level though, which is why Dupp is calling him overrated

Yeah, but at the same time James gave us questions about his level of play before playoffs, not all expected from James such a good postseason run. Saying that Kawhi is comparable to 2020 RS James is nothing wrong, but James proved again that his prime is timeless and nobody (again, reasonable) would pick Kawhi over prime James.

There are people who believe that Kawhi is better than peak James of course, but most of them are LeBron trolls.

I mean I think LeBron was starting to turn the corner in those Clippers/Bucks matchups so I did expect him to have a pretty good postseason. Idk how this one ranks with his other runs, but I did expect a good-enough performance to win the title, and that a lot would depend on the role players' shooting/would AD be the best player on the floor against the Clips and all that

Well, some of us are better at predictions than others

To be honest, before the finish of Nuggets series I did have Kawhi neck and neck with James for POY. He finished the series poorly and James finished Nuggets in spectacular fashion - that's the difference between superstar and GOAT-level player. It doesn't make Kawhi overrated to me though, it seems that I underrated James if anything.

Kawhi is still high on my list, I have a hard time in ranking him vs Butler. Butler had amazing finals games, but let's be honest - Clippers relied on Kawhi far more than Heat on Bulter before the finals. I have to think about it, but Kawhi is still at worst top 6 in POY voting to me and he's still candidate for the best player in the league in future.