Michael Jordan is still the GOAT. Lebron has solidified the #2 spot though.

[Joao Saraiva]

OP mentioned all the stats he wanted. I'm going to do the same.

Assists per game:
- Jordan's best season was at 8 APG
- LeBron has 5 seasons above that, peaking at 10.2

Assists total:
- Jordan 5633
- LeBron 9346

LeBron is about to double MJ in assists in the regular season only.

Rebounds per game:
- Jordan's best season was at 8 RPG
- LeBron has 3 seasons above that and one equal.

Total rebounds:
- Jordan 6672
- LeBron 9405

There is almost a 3000 difference rebound wise.

Point total:
- Jordan 32292
- LeBron 32241

Seasons above 60ts%
Jordan 4
LeBron 6

Best ts%
Jordan 61.4
LeBron 64

WS
Jordan 214
LeBron 236.4

This is only in the regular season. But let's see how they perform in the post season.

Runs above 30 PER
Jordan 4
LeBron 7

Times they lead both teams in GmSC in the finals:
Jordan 5
LeBron 6

So LeBron was actually the best player on the court in the finals more times than Michael Jordan.

Total points
Jordan 5987
LeBron 7491

Total rebounds
Jordan 1152
LeBron 2348

Total assists
Jordan 1022
LeBron 1871

Runs above 60ts%
Jordan 1
LeBron 6

LeBron is much more efficient with his scoring. Therefore is the advantage on PPG so important since LeBron outrebounds MJ and outassists him largely?

Peak ts%
MJ 60.2
LeBron 66.8


I can carry on with the stupidity. See OP, we can all play the dumb game according to whatever agenda we have.
MJ has a case for GOAT. So does LeBron. And you guys gotta live with that. Hate LBJ or not, he's got the case.

[ItsDanger]

There can be only one.

Lebron is in the discussion but MJ has the clear edge.

[Charlie Sollers]

MJ is the greatest of his era. Lebron is the greatest of his era.

[VanWest82]

Pretty sure they had bird rights on all of them. And Lebron was never gonna let Gilbert cheap out and not pay the luxury tax

Cavs would've been close to the tax even without those guys. Lebron, Love, and Kyrie were all already on max deals. No way Gilbert would've paid that tax bill. That's insane. They would've lost TT for sure.

Cavs obviously wouldve paid them, not 15 mill each, which they only got because of the cap hike, but more reasonable contracts that they wouldve been in line for at the time. If you dont remember, Lebron was a FA at the time too, and he was only coming back if Gilbert was willing to spend. And Gilbert never shyed away from paying when Lebron was there the first go around

The tax line in the 15-16 season was 84.7M. Cavs total payroll for the 16-17 season was ~127M. Had the cap stayed flat that would've amounted to a 100M+ tax bill. No NBA owner has or ever will pay that. If Lebron tries to hold a gun to your head you let him walk over losing 100M+.

[AlexanderRight]

LeBron is 36 in 2 months. Jordan was retired by then

Retired by choice. He was still the reigning regular season and finals MVP at 35 when he bounced because he had nothing left to prove. So saying Jordan wasn’t at an elite level at 35 just isn’t true...

by choice is kinda irrelevant. Lebron already has a longer career than Jordan and will only add on to it. Dude might legit finish with the most points in the history of the league

No it’s not irrelevant because it illustrates that MJ still was on top of the league and still could have played longer to add more to his legacy. That’s a completely different situation than a player being over the hill and no longer in a position to do anything positive for his legend except ring chase on the bench because he’s no longer a high level player. Jordan was still the best in the league at 35 so pretending that MJ couldn’t be a high level player into his late 30s the way Lebron will be is just delusion. Sure, Lebron been passed MJ in career totals. MJ still has 2 more championships, 2 more Finals MVPs, 1 more Regular Season MVP, 4 more All Defensive First Teams, 1 more Defensive Player of the Year Award, 3 more Steals Titles, and 9 more Scoring Titles. So even with less time MJ has accomplished more. That means more than just playing longer.

[mademan]

Cavs would've been close to the tax even without those guys. Lebron, Love, and Kyrie were all already on max deals. No way Gilbert would've paid that tax bill. That's insane. They would've lost TT for sure.

Cavs obviously wouldve paid them, not 15 mill each, which they only got because of the cap hike, but more reasonable contracts that they wouldve been in line for at the time. If you dont remember, Lebron was a FA at the time too, and he was only coming back if Gilbert was willing to spend. And Gilbert never shyed away from paying when Lebron was there the first go around

The tax line in the 15-16 season was 84.7M. Cavs total payroll for the 16-17 season was ~127M. Had the cap stayed flat that would've amounted to a 100M+ tax bill. No NBA owner has or ever will pay that. If Lebron tries to hold a gun to your head you let him walk over losing 100M+.

Youre also assuming JR and TT get 15mill a year. There's a reason role players started getting paid that much. If the cap doesnt hike, they get normal role player deals.

And im pretty sure GSW was paying that kinda tax, even after the cap hike. Chit, they might pay some kind of ridiculous tax this upcoming season and they might not even be contenders.

[NY 567]

I have LeBron as a clear number 2 who is still behind Jordan by a decent amount. The thing is, LeBron seems to have quite a bit left in the tank. If he wins another MVP or 2 and 2-3 more rings, then he'd have a very strong case over Jordan

[mademan]

Retired by choice. He was still the reigning regular season and finals MVP at 35 when he bounced because he had nothing left to prove. So saying Jordan wasn’t at an elite level at 35 just isn’t true...

by choice is kinda irrelevant. Lebron already has a longer career than Jordan and will only add on to it. Dude might legit finish with the most points in the history of the league

No it’s not irrelevant because it illustrates that MJ still was on top of the league and still could have played longer to add more to his legacy. That’s a completely different situation than a player being over the hill and no longer in a position to do anything positive for his legend except ring chase on the bench because he’s no longer a high level player. Jordan was still the best in the league. Sure, Lebron been passed MJ in career totals. MJ still has 2 more championships, 2 more Finals MVPs, 1 more Regular Season MVP, 4 more All Defensive First Teams, 1 more Defensive Player of the Year Award, 3 more Steals Titles, and 9 more Scoring Titles. So even with less time MJ has accomplished more. That means more than just playing longer.

This is why i dont like cross era comparisons. Take MVP's. Lebron was 2nd this year against a legit GOAT tier RS from Giannis. Has Jordan ever had competition for MVP like Lebron did this year?

To me, Jordan was the best of his era and Lebron was the best of his. You cant compare across cause they didnt play against each other

[therealbig3]

Listen, nobody is saying Jordan wasn’t elite at 35, and imo, using age to compare them is flawed...LeBron came in straight out of high school and never took multiple years off like Jordan did (not criticizing Jordan, it’s just the truth...he barely played in 86 and 95, and he didn’t play in 94). 98 was basically the 11th year of his career. The equivalent for LeBron would be 14. Since 14, he’s added 6 more years as the best player in the league. He came in younger than Jordan, and he never missed entire seasons like Jordan...so his 35 is A LOT more than Jordan’s 35. Compare them by any other standard of longevity (number of seasons or minutes), and it’s just not close.

[VanWest82]

Cavs obviously wouldve paid them, not 15 mill each, which they only got because of the cap hike, but more reasonable contracts that they wouldve been in line for at the time. If you dont remember, Lebron was a FA at the time too, and he was only coming back if Gilbert was willing to spend. And Gilbert never shyed away from paying when Lebron was there the first go around

The tax line in the 15-16 season was 84.7M. Cavs total payroll for the 16-17 season was ~127M. Had the cap stayed flat that would've amounted to a 100M+ tax bill. No NBA owner has or ever will pay that. If Lebron tries to hold a gun to your head you let him walk over losing 100M+.

Youre also assuming JR and TT get 15mill a year. There's a reason role players started getting paid that much. If the cap doesnt hike, they get normal role player deals.

And im pretty sure GSW was paying that kinda tax, even after the cap hike. Chit, they might pay some kind of ridiculous tax this upcoming season and they might not even be contenders.

Warriors never paid anything close to that. Maybe TT, JR, and Shump don't get what they got without the cap spike but Cavs were coming off an improbable title where they all played well. They would've gotten paid by someone. JR and Shump would've gotten MLE. TT would've gotten way more. He was the #4 pick in the draft. C'mon.

[Emhoward]

The 2016 warriors that Lebron beat was harder than any team Michael faced in the finals. I want to say that upfront.

That said there are two narratives around Lebron beating this team that has always bothered me.

1. Coming back from 3-1 - yes he came back from 3-1, but that also means he was down 1-3. People say he came back from 3-1 like it was the most impressive thing ever! You know what's more impressive... winning in 4, 5, or 6 games!

2. That Warriors teams WAS NOT the same as the 73 regular season team. For one Curry was hampered, two, they simply was not as effective in the playoffs as they are in the regular season because in the reg season teams can't prepare for what the warriors do. That WAS NOT some great all time team in the end.. You want proof -- this same Warriors team was DOWN 1-3 to the OKC Thunder. They were DOWN. How is an all-time great team down 1-3 to a team that won 55 regular season games! 55! They were third in the west that year.

Again that Warriors team was still better than any team MJ beat. Lebron deserves his props, but people talk about that Warriors 16 playoff team like they were the Warriors 16 regular season team. That regular season team was one of the greatest teams ever, that playoff team was NOT.

[Kobe187]

aah the smell of insecurity

Like a previous poster said; this isn’t insecurity, it’s giving kids a history lesson. These GOAT debates are laughable, the agenda trying to be pushed is pathetic. Jordan is the GOAT and it’s not even close.

This is about people not wanting to let go of their childhood hero.

The fact that it's "not even close" to some people speaks a lot.

Someone could come along, go 10 for 10, 10 FMVP's, 10 MVP's, 10 scoring titles, 10 DPOY, and you guys still would say Jordan's the best.

Both Lebron and Jordan are reasonable picks.

If someone went 10 for 10 with 10 FMVPs without recruiting stars or creating super teams, I wouldn’t hesitate for a second and would consider him GOAT. I’m a realist, Kobe is my favourite player, I’m just stating facts.

[NyKnicks1714]

It's of course very close. Anyone who just says "it's not even close" then just shares the numbers they want to share shouldn't be taken seriously.

Eventually Jordan will be talked about the way Kareem is talked about now, and LeBron will be talked about the way Jordan has been talked about over the past couple of decades, as some other player becomes the best of the next generation. In 15-20 years it'll be LeBron vs. Player X for GOAT. After that Jordan will basically become Wilt, LeBron Kareem, and Player X vs. Player Y for GOAT.

[Infinite Llamas]

aah the smell of insecurity

Like a previous poster said; this isn’t insecurity, it’s giving kids a history lesson. These GOAT debates are laughable, the agenda trying to be pushed is pathetic. Jordan is the GOAT and it’s not even close, show some respect to Black Jesus.

This is about people not wanting to let go of their childhood hero.

The fact that it's "not even close" to some people speaks a lot.

Someone could come along, go 10 for 10, 10 FMVP's, 10 MVP's, 10 scoring titles, 10 DPOY, and you guys still would say Jordan's the best.

Both Lebron and Jordan are reasonable picks.

Jordan is more than just a “childhood hero”. He put the NBA on the global map and was associated with greatness and winning. His name, image and narrative is the stuff of folklore and mythology. The stats and records he has/had is all just icing really. His persona was simply larger than life and no matter how long lebron plays or how many records he breaks, he will never have that transcending image and character that Jordan had and it’s as simple as that. GOAT is a lot more than numbers. It’s about aesthetics. It’s about the folklore. It’s about the persona.

Lebron stans are so desperate to say the man they’ve followed from day one is the greatest (as do countless other young folks who have no frame of mind of a previous generation) but it’s all mere wasted energy. Be content with lebron being the best of this generation and you’ll free yourselves of the countless mental gymnastics.

[triple_threat]

Michael Jordan is the GOAT and it’s not even close.

Championships:
Jordan: 6 LeBron: 4

FMVP:
Jordan: 6 LeBron: 4

MVP:
Jordan 5 LeBron: 4

All Defence Team:
Jordan 9 LeBron 5

Scoring Tittles:
Jordan 10 LeBron 1

Steals Leader:
Jordan 3 LeBron 0

Assists Leader
LeBron 1 Jordan 0

DPOY
Jordan 1 LeBron 0

Only player to win Scoring Tittle, MVP & DPOY in same season. 2 Time Dunk Champion. ACC rookie of the year. ACC player of the Year. NCAA Champion. List just keeps going.


Jordan (Bulls)
PTS 31.5 FG% 505 3PT% 332 FT% 838 TRB 6.3 AST 5.4 STL 2.5 BLK 0.9 TOV 2.8

James
PTS 27.1 FG% 504 3PT% 344 FT% 734 TRB 7.4 AST 7.4 STL 1.6 BLK 0.8 TOV 3.5


Made playoffs:
Jordan 13/13 LeBron 14/17

Overall playoffs Win %
Jordan 66.5 LeBron 65.3

Finals Win %
Jordan 100 LeBron 40

Jordan faced 269 opponents in his playoff career, outscoring every player, except one.

27 of the 37 playoff opponents Jordan faced had over 50 wins. James has never had to defeat 3 teams with 50 wins or 2 teams with 60 wins in any playoff run. Jordan’s teams accomplished this in 5 of his 6 playoff runs.

Playoff game-winners/tie-ers with 25 seconds or less
– Jordan 10/19 (53%)
– LeBron 8/23 (35%)
Finals game-winners/tie-ers with 25 seconds or less
– Jordan 4/8 (50%)
– LeBron 0/6 (0%)

* Record 8 50-plus point playoff games.
* The all-time playoff record for the most 30-plus point playoff games with 109.
* Only player in NBA history to never once score under 15 points in any playoff game he ever played in.


MJ has literally everything over Lebron. Titles, accolades, stats, intangibles, eye test, impact, respect.. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT FOR LEBRON.

KAJ probably has a better case for #2 all time, LeBron is a good overall player but the recruiting process everywhere he goes is embarrassing. He's 40% in the finals, despite forming multiple super teams.

Jordan was a phenom in the 80’s. The best player on the planet by a country Mile. He never took the easy way out. Showed up to every single game, put the team on his back and played his heart out. His insane competitive drive was amazing.

What if Jordan left the Bulls and joined the Lakers in the 80’s? Returned to Chicago in the 90’s when they were better (and still recruited a star player)? Then jumped ship again for his final run recruiting Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett and other solid players to win a few more Championships before retiring? How many Championships would Jordan have? 15? 16? 17?

Michael Jordan was just on a different level of greatness. The Best Ever.


Great video for those that never got the privilege to watch Michael Jordan play.

Watch on YouTube

Stats contain many lies and omissions.

[loserX]

Times they lead both teams in GmSC in the finals:
Jordan 5
LeBron 6

So LeBron was actually the best player on the court in the finals more times than Michael Jordan.

Fun list, but this one surprised me. Who was the player who out GmSC-ed Jordan in the year it wasn't him?

[Hellcrooner]

poor pathetic kobe fans that once upon a time believed their idol would surpass jordan, now siding with their former foe narrative after seeing how lebron was always better than kobe and not being able to digest it.

[scrabbarista]

From the Roundball Rock podcast:


'"Kobe's ghost touched everyone on the team... and he taught LeBron the ultimate lesson in winning. You know what it was?"

Spoiler:

"Make the Lakers get you a Hall of Fame big man."

[twyzted]

OP mentioned all the stats he wanted. I'm going to do the same.

Assists per game:
- Jordan's best season was at 8 APG
- LeBron has 5 seasons above that, peaking at 10.2

Assists total:
- Jordan 5633
- LeBron 9346

LeBron is about to double MJ in assists in the regular season only.

Rebounds per game:
- Jordan's best season was at 8 RPG
- LeBron has 3 seasons above that and one equal.

Total rebounds:
- Jordan 6672
- LeBron 9405

There is almost a 3000 difference rebound wise.

Point total:
- Jordan 32292
- LeBron 32241

Seasons above 60ts%
Jordan 4
LeBron 6

Best ts%
Jordan 61.4
LeBron 64

WS
Jordan 214
LeBron 236.4

This is only in the regular season. But let's see how they perform in the post season.

Runs above 30 PER
Jordan 4
LeBron 7

Times they lead both teams in GmSC in the finals:
Jordan 5
LeBron 6

So LeBron was actually the best player on the court in the finals more times than Michael Jordan.

Total points
Jordan 5987
LeBron 7491

Total rebounds
Jordan 1152
LeBron 2348

Total assists
Jordan 1022
LeBron 1871

Runs above 60ts%
Jordan 1
LeBron 6

LeBron is much more efficient with his scoring. Therefore is the advantage on PPG so important since LeBron outrebounds MJ and outassists him largely?

Peak ts%
MJ 60.2
LeBron 66.8


I can carry on with the stupidity. See OP, we can all play the dumb game according to whatever agenda we have.
MJ has a case for GOAT. So does LeBron. And you guys gotta live with that. Hate LBJ or not, he's got the case.

Playoffs
Most points in a playoff game
63 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls

24 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls scored 55 of 106 bulls points in a win.

Most consecutive field goals made in a game playoffs and finals record
13 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls vs. Los Angeles Lakers on June 5, 1991

Most free throws made in a quarter
13 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls vs. Detroit Pistons on May 21, 1991

3-game series
Most points - 135 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls (vs. Miami Heat), 1992 (45.0 ppg)

Most field goals made - 53 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls (vs. Miami Heat), 1992 (53/87, 60.9%)
Highest free throw percentage (min. 15 attempts) - 100% by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls (vs. Washington Bullets), 1997 (15/15)

5-game series
Most points - 226 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls (vs. Cleveland Cavaliers), 1988 (45.2 ppg

Most field goals made - 86 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls (vs. Philadelphia 76ers), 1990

Most field goals made - 101 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls (vs. Phoenix Suns), 1993

Most points
759 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls, 1992

Highest points per game average (min. 25 games)
33.45 by Michael Jordan (179 games)

Most 50-point games
8 by Michael Jordan

Most 40-point games
38 by Michael Jordan

Only player to score 15+ points in every game (min. 25 games) Michael Jordan (179 games)

Only player to record consecutive 50-point games
Michael Jordan scored 50 and 55 points in Games 1 and 2 of the 1988 Eastern Conference First Round (Chicago Bulls vs. Cleveland Cavaliers).

Most consecutive 45-point games
3 by Michael Jordan (May 9–13, 1990)

Most consecutive 20-point games
60 by Michael Jordan (June 2, 1989 – May 11, 1993)

Most consecutive 15-point games
179 by Michael Jordan. This streak entails every playoff game of Jordan's career.

Most consecutive 10-point games
179 by Michael Jordan. This streak entails every playoff game of Jordan's career

Highest Player Efficiency Rating
28.60 by Michael Jordan

Finals
Most points in a half
35 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls

Most field goals made in a half
14 by Isiah Thomas, Detroit Pistons June 19, 1988
14 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls June 3, 1992
14 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls June 16, 1993

Most points per game in an NBA Championship series
41.0 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls (vs. Phoenix Suns), 1993

Only players to score at least 30 points in every game
Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls (vs. Phoenix Suns), 1993 (6 games) elgin bayler, shaq, durant, rick barry and hakeem also did it.

Most steals - 14 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls (vs. Los Angeles Lakers), 1991 (2.8 spg) 5 game serie.

6-game series
Most points - 246 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls 1993 (41.0 ppg)
Most field goals made - 101 by Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls 1993

Most consecutive 40 point games
4 by Michael Jordan (June 11–18, 1993)

Only player to score 20+ points in all games (min. 15 games)
Michael Jordan (35 games)

40-point scoring duos
41 by LeBron James and Kyrie Irving, Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden State Warriors on June 13, 2016

Most games
260 by LeBron James

Most minutes
10,049 by LeBron James

Most points
6,911 by LeBron James

Most 30-point games
110 by LeBron James

Most 20-point games
214 by LeBron James

Most 10-point games
237 by LeBron James

Most field goals made
2,457 by LeBron James

Most field goals attempted
5,006 by LeBron James

Most field goals missed
2,549 by LeBron James

Most free throws made
1,627 by LeBron James

Most steals
419 by LeBron James

Most turnovers
866 by LeBron James.

Finals

40-point scoring duos
41 by LeBron James and Kyrie Irving, Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden State Warriors on June 13, 2016

Most points by a duo in a loss
77 by LeBron James (39) and Kyrie Irving (38), Cleveland Cavaliers June 7, 2017

Most points by a trio in a loss
93 by LeBron James (39), Kyrie Irving (38), and J.R. Smith (16), Cleveland Cavaliers June 7, 2017

LeBron James (39), Kyrie Irving (38), Cleveland Cavaliers and Kevin Durant (31), Klay Thompson (30), Golden State Warriors on June 7, 2017

LeBron James (39), Kyrie Irving (38), Cleveland Cavaliers on June 7, 2017 and Kyrie Irving (40), LeBron James (31), Cleveland Cavaliers on June 9, 2017

Triple-double per game average in the NBA Finals
LeBron James: 33.6 points, 12.0 rebounds, and 10.0 assists, Cleveland Cavaliers ,2017

Most defensive rebounds
395 by LeBron James

Most turnovers
196 by LeBron James (he in fact does not have the most assists)

Most triple-doubles
10 by LeBron James

So he has accumilation stats.
He still has not passed Jordan in playoff records
30>22.
Not in titles, mvps, fmvps, dpoy.
Jordan also has avg 11.4 apg over a final serie
Lbj 10 apg as best.

Jordan never shot under 42% in the finals
Lebron has 2 finals under 40%

Jordan never scored fewer then 20 points in a finals game.
Lbj avg under 20ppg for a serie.

Jordan never scored under 15 points in playoff game.
Lbj 8 in a finals game.

He has the highest per for a playoff career.

Lebron also has the records for help
Most points by a duo or trio in a win or a loss.
He has no assist record.

[SactoKingsFan]

Looks kind of silly to include dunk contest and act like those Wizards years never happened.

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