Michael Jordan is still the GOAT. Lebron has solidified the #2 spot though.

[Woodsanity]

Jordan had a TS% of like 54% for his last 3-peat, aged 32-34

LeBron has a TS% of 64% for his last 3 playoffs at age 32,33,35

Almost like it’s easier to score now with the rules, pace, and meaningless switching on picks

The league average TS% is only a few % points better now I think so still a pretty big gap.

[Woodsanity]

Read on Twitter

^ That argument is just dumb cause that logic does not apply to players like Butler because Butler was never or is never going to be in the GOAT discussion....The only reason LBJ does not get a pass for losing so many finals which he lost 6 of them 6.....Not 1 ...6...

When you are in the GOAT discussion you have to nit pick things

No one is even making that point anyway. It's not that Lebron lost -- it's that he got outplayed and lost. He quit in 2010 and got outplayed in 2011. KD arguably outplayed him in 2017 with Lebron as his primary defender, and then played him to a draw in 2018. That's the argument, along with the fact that Lebron has repeatedly stacked the deck in favor.

MJ got outplayed a 6 foot midget in Isiah Thomas what a bum!

[Kobe187]

aah the smell of insecurity

Like a previous poster said; this isn’t insecurity, it’s giving kids a history lesson. These GOAT debates are laughable, the agenda trying to be pushed is pathetic. Jordan is the GOAT and it’s not even close. It’s about integrity and putting respect where it legitimately belongs.

Assuming you’re a laker fan by your username... you’re spending the day after..

Kobe fan only, was rooting for Jimmy Buckets and the Heat.

[zimpy27]

Like a previous poster said; this isn’t insecurity, it’s giving kids a history lesson. These GOAT debates are laughable, the agenda trying to be pushed is pathetic. Jordan is the GOAT and it’s not even close. It’s about integrity and putting respect where it legitimately belongs.

Assuming you’re a laker fan by your username... you’re spending the day after..

Kobe fan only, was rooting for Jimmy Buckets and the Heat.

Kobe would be disgusted that you backed the Heat

You do your thing to honour him: rip down Lakers and LeBron

LeBron and Lakers do their thing to honour him: bring another championship to his city and support his family

[Johnny Bball]

I expect it from those that are LBJ fans first and not real Laker fans.... but it makes me laugh so hard that Lakers fans are now stanning for James' entire career.

[nedleeds]

Kareem still ahead. Kareem also had to burn 4 years at UCLA. Jordan 3 at UNC. Kareem won the title in his second year and won MVP. If they tracked blocks he would be the all-time leader in blocks. It's not that close.

Some of you infants really need to educate yourself on Kareem, he's completely insane.

[Bush4Ever]

Times they lead both teams in GmSC in the finals:
Jordan 5
LeBron 6

So LeBron was actually the best player on the court in the finals more times than Michael Jordan.

Fun list, but this one surprised me. Who was the player who out GmSC-ed Jordan in the year it wasn't him?

Kemp in 1996.

IIRC, he had a pretty efficient series while Jordan largely struggled (relatively-speaking) on an efficiency front, albeit in a series that was pretty rough-and-tumble and defense-heavy overall.

Kareem still ahead. Kareem also had to burn 4 years at UCLA. Jordan 3 at UNC. Kareem won the title in his second year and won MVP. If they tracked blocks he would be the all-time leader in blocks. It's not that close.

Some of you infants really need to educate yourself on Kareem, he's completely insane.

Kareem is 3rd on my list, but it's absolutely reasonable to have both MJ and Lebron ahead of him at this point. It certainly isn't a lopsided advantage for Kareem.

What specifically do serious fans like the ones on this site not know about Kareem that would wildly swing the vote?

[TheGOATRises007]

^ That argument is just dumb cause that logic does not apply to players like Butler because Butler was never or is never going to be in the GOAT discussion....The only reason LBJ does not get a pass for losing so many finals which he lost 6 of them 6.....Not 1 ...6...

When you are in the GOAT discussion you have to nit pick things

No one is even making that point anyway. It's not that Lebron lost -- it's that he got outplayed and lost. He quit in 2010 and got outplayed in 2011. KD arguably outplayed him in 2017 with Lebron as his primary defender, and then played him to a draw in 2018. That's the argument, along with the fact that Lebron has repeatedly stacked the deck in favor.

MJ got outplayed a 6 foot midget in Isiah Thomas what a bum!

IT never outplayed MJ in a series.

[Kobe187]

1. Jordan
2. KAJ
3. Russell/LeBron/Wilt

[AlexanderRight]

^ That argument is just dumb cause that logic does not apply to players like Butler because Butler was never or is never going to be in the GOAT discussion....The only reason LBJ does not get a pass for losing so many finals which he lost 6 of them 6.....Not 1 ...6...

When you are in the GOAT discussion you have to nit pick things

No one is even making that point anyway. It's not that Lebron lost -- it's that he got outplayed and lost. He quit in 2010 and got outplayed in 2011. KD arguably outplayed him in 2017 with Lebron as his primary defender, and then played him to a draw in 2018. That's the argument, along with the fact that Lebron has repeatedly stacked the deck in favor.

MJ got outplayed a 6 foot midget in Isiah Thomas what a bum!

Isiah never individually outplayed MJ as a player. Tbh, no one has really outplayed MJ individually. Jordan’s woes with Detroit was collective all time team effort by the Bad Boys Pistons. No single player has ever outshined MJ on the court. The same can’t be said for Lebron.

[BillTheGOAT]

LeBron 1265 regular season games
Jordan 1072 regular season games

LeBron 260 playoff games
Jordan 179 playoff games

LeBron 4
Jordan 6

LeBrons 17 seasons, lowest amount of games played was last season as a Laker at 55 when they were not going to make the playoffs.

Jordan played 11 full/close to full regular seasons with Chicago.

In the 85-86 season he injured his navicular bone and only played 18 regular season games.

In the 94-95 season he only played in 17 regular season games.

Dont be comparing LeBrons raw numbers in pts,reb,ast cause they mean nothing. Nothing!

Jordans only blemish was playing with Washington.

Had he played in the lockout 98-99 season he would have 4peated.

Would have been close to beat the Lakers in the 99-00 season.

LeBron is playing in his age 34,35,36 and likely 37,38 aged season.

Jordan took years off and still won rings.

Take your LeBron and shove him where the sun dont shine!

[Ree4erMadness]

I already had Lebron #2 before this and he's still #2 after this. I watched the majority of MJ's career. I've never seen a more talented, dominating, 6'6 player.

[Jkam31]

OP mentioned all the stats he wanted. I'm going to do the same.

Assists per game:
- Jordan's best season was at 8 APG
- LeBron has 5 seasons above that, peaking at 10.2

Assists total:
- Jordan 5633
- LeBron 9346

LeBron is about to double MJ in assists in the regular season only.

Rebounds per game:
- Jordan's best season was at 8 RPG
- LeBron has 3 seasons above that and one equal.

Total rebounds:
- Jordan 6672
- LeBron 9405

There is almost a 3000 difference rebound wise.

Point total:
- Jordan 32292
- LeBron 32241

Seasons above 60ts%
Jordan 4
LeBron 6

Best ts%
Jordan 61.4
LeBron 64

WS
Jordan 214
LeBron 236.4

This is only in the regular season. But let's see how they perform in the post season.

Runs above 30 PER
Jordan 4
LeBron 7

Times they lead both teams in GmSC in the finals:
Jordan 5
LeBron 6

So LeBron was actually the best player on the court in the finals more times than Michael Jordan.

Total points
Jordan 5987
LeBron 7491

Total rebounds
Jordan 1152
LeBron 2348

Total assists
Jordan 1022
LeBron 1871

Runs above 60ts%
Jordan 1
LeBron 6

LeBron is much more efficient with his scoring. Therefore is the advantage on PPG so important since LeBron outrebounds MJ and outassists him largely?

Peak ts%
MJ 60.2
LeBron 66.8


I can carry on with the stupidity. See OP, we can all play the dumb game according to whatever agenda we have.
MJ has a case for GOAT. So does LeBron. And you guys gotta live with that. Hate LBJ or not, he's got the case.

And this my friends is why lebron keeps his stat sheet next to him on the bench and refuses to take shot at the end of the quarter

[Jkam31]

The 2016 warriors that Lebron beat was harder than any team Michael faced in the finals. I want to say that upfront.

That said there are two narratives around Lebron beating this team that has always bothered me.

1. Coming back from 3-1 - yes he came back from 3-1, but that also means he was down 1-3. People say he came back from 3-1 like it was the most impressive thing ever! You know what's more impressive... winning in 4, 5, or 6 games!

2. That Warriors teams WAS NOT the same as the 73 regular season team. For one Curry was hampered, two, they simply was not as effective in the playoffs as they are in the regular season because in the reg season teams can't prepare for what the warriors do. That WAS NOT some great all time team in the end.. You want proof -- this same Warriors team was DOWN 1-3 to the OKC Thunder. They were DOWN. How is an all-time great team down 1-3 to a team that won 55 regular season games! 55! They were third in the west that year.

Again that Warriors team was still better than any team MJ beat. Lebron deserves his props, but people talk about that Warriors 16 playoff team like they were the Warriors 16 regular season team. That regular season team was one of the greatest teams ever, that playoff team was NOT.

Bogut was out, Igudula couldn’t move, and lebron begged for a suspension. Clearly wasn’t the same team and they almost lost to OKC anyways

[Dzon Dilindzer]

no matter what, michael jordan will always be considered by majority to be the "goat" (whether he is or isnt)

he has the "goat" narrative and that will never go away

For maybe 10 more years, if that. Lebron will be the goat soon, nothing you can do about it.

lewis hamilton will surpass michael schumacher soon, but the narrative has schumacher as the "goat"

trust me, hamilton will never be considered to be the "goat"

roger federer is considered to be the "goat", but rafael nadal and novak djokovic can surpass him and unlike jordan and schumacher, federer is still an active player

[traax]

People have no problems with cross era comparisons, so I am gonna make a cross sport comparison. Eddy Merckx > Lebron/Jordan.

Oh, and Gretzky was a fraud.

[Jkam31]

In what universe is 6-0 in the Finals better than 6-6 in the Finals?

Are people serious with this logic? It’s embarrassing.

And yeah, even if you point out LeBron’s absolute biggest chokes...if he leads a team to just as many titles and ALSO way more actual Finals appearances...he’s demonstrating much greater team success and more cracks at a title than the other guy. You want to talk about being a winner...that’s it.

If you ignore that he left teams the minute it got hard to start new super teams I can kind of see your point. But you can’t ignore that he simply stacked the deck for himself making it to the finals that much isn’t hard when you’re playing low level competition with a stacked hand

[ReddoverKobe]

no matter what, michael jordan will always be considered by majority to be the "goat" (whether he is or isnt)

he has the "goat" narrative and that will never go away

For maybe 10 more years, if that. Lebron will be the goat soon, nothing you can do about it.

lewis hamilton will surpass michael schumacher soon, but the narrative has schumacher as the "goat"

trust me, hamilton will never be considered to be the "goat"

roger federer is considered to be the "goat", but rafael nadal and novak djokovic can surpass him and unlike jordan and schumacher, federer is still an active player

I know nothing about racing and tennis. I'm just saying as more guys that played against Lebron get into the media, the narrative will change, much like it has forever.

[Jkam31]

6 championships doesn't erase the other number on the other side of his record. So no.

Sure it does. It means they have the same number of titles, but LeBron made it to an additional 6 finals more than Jordan. Despite what some people apparently seriously think, making it to the finals is better than not making it to the finals.

The 6-0 in the Finals argument is the stupidest argument ever. In which world losing in the second round, for example, is a better outcome than losing in the Finals?

What’s the best team lebron beat on his way to the finals in the East? Hell whose the best player he faced in the East? Lowry, PG, Holford, maybe Oladipo some terrifying names

[CptCrunch]

Jordan is the GOAT based on achievement.

LeBron is a far better basketball player. Even the low tier all-stars today would have been superstars in the 90's. In every sport, the athletes gets better, faster, and more skilled with each passing decade.