2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[cjbulls]

If he drops to #4, you definitely go Edwards.

It’s funny because if he drops to 4, I’d start getting worried about what the other 3 teams uncovered that led them to pass on him.

I know at least one scouting report was published that was pretty harsh on his b-ball iq and interest in winning basketball.

I think you highlighted the biggest concern of his as a player. His basketball IQ is way behind the other top prospects in this draft. His shot selection, off ball movement, off ball defense, & passing are all obvious weaknesses that jump out on his tape (albeit passing is less of a concern).

However, he has all the physical tools, ball handling, shooting stroke, and creativity to become an all-star level player. Plus, he is one of the youngest prospects in the draft. The combination of strength and explosiveness makes him extremely difficult to stop at the rim and was able to get to the free throw line at a decent rate (5.3FTA) and convert on over 77% of them.

Yeah you get some shades of young Zach. It isn’t the end of the world, but I thought some of the reports questioned Edwards dedication, which is Zach’s key strength to overcome those limitations.

[kodo]

NBA draft net's mock gets Hayes for us with #4.
Hopefully not.I don't a player compared with Hinrich or Dinwiddie.
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/
We deserve more than that.

I wouldn't put too much stock into NBA comparison from nbadraft. They can be pretty bad at times.

Oof, Hinrich is a terrible comparison for Hayes.

I liked Kirk more than most, but he had very little east-west movement in his game, no advanced shot making such as stepbacks off a P&R, and was mainly a very accurate catch & shoot player. Also a great defender, Hayes is more of an offensive player.

I remember way back when we got trounced by Phoenix, the media asked Nash what he thought of Kirk and he basically said he was a pretty good player for not being a PG.

I could see Kirk as a comparison for Haliburton, since he's a terrible off the dribble shooter and an excellent C&S shooter and great defender.

[gobullschi]

It’s funny because if he drops to 4, I’d start getting worried about what the other 3 teams uncovered that led them to pass on him.

I know at least one scouting report was published that was pretty harsh on his b-ball iq and interest in winning basketball.

I think you highlighted the biggest concern of his as a player. His basketball IQ is way behind the other top prospects in this draft. His shot selection, off ball movement, off ball defense, & passing are all obvious weaknesses that jump out on his tape (albeit passing is less of a concern).

However, he has all the physical tools, ball handling, shooting stroke, and creativity to become an all-star level player. Plus, he is one of the youngest prospects in the draft. The combination of strength and explosiveness makes him extremely difficult to stop at the rim and was able to get to the free throw line at a decent rate (5.3FTA) and convert on over 77% of them.

Yeah you get some shades of young Zach. It isn’t the end of the world, but I thought some of the reports questioned Edwards dedication, which is Zach’s key strength to overcome those limitations.

He definitely has some similar weaknesses as Zach LaVine. This seems to be pretty common for the freak athlete types.

I wish I knew how tall Anthony Edwards really is. I've seen his height range anywhere from 6'3" - 6'5". Usually, I always default to the lower number being the most accurate, but in his case, my eyes see a player who looks taller than 6'5". Maybe it's because he is already built like a tank?

[Pax for Prez]

I think you highlighted the biggest concern of his as a player. His basketball IQ is way behind the other top prospects in this draft. His shot selection, off ball movement, off ball defense, & passing are all obvious weaknesses that jump out on his tape (albeit passing is less of a concern).

However, he has all the physical tools, ball handling, shooting stroke, and creativity to become an all-star level player. Plus, he is one of the youngest prospects in the draft. The combination of strength and explosiveness makes him extremely difficult to stop at the rim and was able to get to the free throw line at a decent rate (5.3FTA) and convert on over 77% of them.

Yeah you get some shades of young Zach. It isn’t the end of the world, but I thought some of the reports questioned Edwards dedication, which is Zach’s key strength to overcome those limitations.

He definitely has some similar weaknesses as Zach LaVine. This seems to be pretty common for the freak athlete types.

I wish I knew how tall Anthony Edwards really is. I've seen his height range anywhere from 6'3" - 6'5". Usually, I always default to the lower number being the most accurate, but in his case, my eyes see a player who looks taller than 6'5". Maybe it's because he is already built like a tank?

Yes, I can't wait until the combine measurements come out on the players.

[PhilLeotardo]

It’s funny because if he drops to 4, I’d start getting worried about what the other 3 teams uncovered that led them to pass on him.

I know at least one scouting report was published that was pretty harsh on his b-ball iq and interest in winning basketball.

I think you highlighted the biggest concern of his as a player. His basketball IQ is way behind the other top prospects in this draft. His shot selection, off ball movement, off ball defense, & passing are all obvious weaknesses that jump out on his tape (albeit passing is less of a concern).

However, he has all the physical tools, ball handling, shooting stroke, and creativity to become an all-star level player. Plus, he is one of the youngest prospects in the draft. The combination of strength and explosiveness makes him extremely difficult to stop at the rim and was able to get to the free throw line at a decent rate (5.3FTA) and convert on over 77% of them.

Yeah you get some shades of young Zach. It isn’t the end of the world, but I thought some of the reports questioned Edwards dedication, which is Zach’s key strength to overcome those limitations.

Yikes. He doesn’t have anything in common with LaVine. LaVine was downright bad at playing the game of basketball. He literally couldn’t do anything except dunk. Edwards is just unpolished but he’s shown some skills. LaVine showed nothing, you were basically hoping he’d become at best a Gerald Green.

LaVines improvements have been unprecedented, Kobe Bryant-esque. Edwards is a worlds-better prospect than LaVine at the same age

[PhilLeotardo]

If he drops to #4, you definitely go Edwards.

It’s funny because if he drops to 4, I’d start getting worried about what the other 3 teams uncovered that led them to pass on him.

I know at least one scouting report was published that was pretty harsh on his b-ball iq and interest in winning basketball.

or they are just not smart?

Charlotte is one of the worst drafting teams in the NBA and Minnnesota is just slightly above them with endless top picks and so many busts.

That isn’t how that works. The reason Charlotte & Minn have so many “busts” is because they are some of the most toxic & corrosive environments in pro sports, and have horrid player development

If Tyler Herro had gotten drafted by Charlotte, everyone would be considering him a bust, because he wouldn’t have done jack

Coaching, positive environment, and dedicated developmental systems are what enable players to succeed, 8 times out of 10. Minnesota & Charlotte don’t have any of those things in place & never really have, save for brief, fleeting periods

[cjbulls]

I think you highlighted the biggest concern of his as a player. His basketball IQ is way behind the other top prospects in this draft. His shot selection, off ball movement, off ball defense, & passing are all obvious weaknesses that jump out on his tape (albeit passing is less of a concern).

However, he has all the physical tools, ball handling, shooting stroke, and creativity to become an all-star level player. Plus, he is one of the youngest prospects in the draft. The combination of strength and explosiveness makes him extremely difficult to stop at the rim and was able to get to the free throw line at a decent rate (5.3FTA) and convert on over 77% of them.

Yeah you get some shades of young Zach. It isn’t the end of the world, but I thought some of the reports questioned Edwards dedication, which is Zach’s key strength to overcome those limitations.

Yikes. He doesn’t have anything in common with LaVine. LaVine was downright bad at playing the game of basketball. He literally couldn’t do anything except dunk. Edwards is just unpolished but he’s shown some skills. LaVine showed nothing, you were basically hoping he’d become at best a Gerald Green.

LaVines improvements have been unprecedented, Kobe Bryant-esque. Edwards is a worlds-better prospect than LaVine at the same age

No one said they were the same caliber of prospect, just that they had overlapping weaknesses. Zach could shoot and handle the ball (on top of the dunking), he just had no b-ball iq.

Edwards is getting hit with some of the questions as well. Low iq is hard to overcome

[cjbulls]

It’s funny because if he drops to 4, I’d start getting worried about what the other 3 teams uncovered that led them to pass on him.

I know at least one scouting report was published that was pretty harsh on his b-ball iq and interest in winning basketball.

or they are just not smart?

Charlotte is one of the worst drafting teams in the NBA and Minnnesota is just slightly above them with endless top picks and so many busts.

That isn’t how that works. The reason Charlotte & Minn have so many “busts” is because they are some of the most toxic & corrosive environments in pro sports, and have horrid player development

If Tyler Herro had gotten drafted by Charlotte, everyone would be considering him a bust, because he wouldn’t have done jack

Coaching, positive environment, and dedicated developmental systems are what enable players to succeed, 8 times out of 10. Minnesota & Charlotte don’t have any of those things in place & never really have, save for brief, fleeting periods

You do realize teams change right? For example, Minnesota employing a whole new FO. And Charlotte making the playoffs more recently than the Bulls and having no trouble developing Kemba Walker.

Or should we continue marking down the Bulls because of their past? I guess whatever they think and whoever they take is bound to be a bust.

[StunnerKO]

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[PaKii94]

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The miami heat got to the finals with vassell's archetype of players (crowder/jimmy/iggy/djj). The other teams also had similar players.

Vassell will be one of them in the future or better. He's my pick still.

Here is the full vid:

Watch on YouTube

[R3AL1TY]

Vassell looks like he can immediately be what Hutchinson hasn't fully lived up to.

[MrSparkle]

I think you highlighted the biggest concern of his as a player. His basketball IQ is way behind the other top prospects in this draft. His shot selection, off ball movement, off ball defense, & passing are all obvious weaknesses that jump out on his tape (albeit passing is less of a concern).

However, he has all the physical tools, ball handling, shooting stroke, and creativity to become an all-star level player. Plus, he is one of the youngest prospects in the draft. The combination of strength and explosiveness makes him extremely difficult to stop at the rim and was able to get to the free throw line at a decent rate (5.3FTA) and convert on over 77% of them.

Yeah you get some shades of young Zach. It isn’t the end of the world, but I thought some of the reports questioned Edwards dedication, which is Zach’s key strength to overcome those limitations.

Yikes. He doesn’t have anything in common with LaVine. LaVine was downright bad at playing the game of basketball. He literally couldn’t do anything except dunk. Edwards is just unpolished but he’s shown some skills. LaVine showed nothing, you were basically hoping he’d become at best a Gerald Green.

LaVines improvements have been unprecedented, Kobe Bryant-esque. Edwards is a worlds-better prospect than LaVine at the same age

Ok, I don't know about Kobe-esque... But right you are, LaVine was a very raw prospect drafted for his athleticism and raw skills, and has largely panned out incredibly well for a 13th pick with an ACL tear. But IMO I'm still not sure why LaVine slipped so far - who in their right mind ever takes McDermott or Stauskas over a hyper-athletic prospect with flashes of skills? He could dribble in college; he wasn't a stiff.

But agreed, Edwards is a world's better prospect. It's a matter of him hitting the right environment; I think Donovan can make a primo starter out of him. But like current LaVine, I'd be concerned about IQ, shot selection and ball movement. Pairing them might not work. That's not a reason to skip him if he happens to drop.

[PlayerUp]

Vassell looks like he can immediately be what Hutchinson hasn't fully lived up to.

Hutch had a low ceiling.

[PlayerUp]

Advanced Stat Numbers

Devin Vassell
24 PER
58.5% TS
126.9 Offensive Rating
93.6 Defensive Rating

Anthony Edwards
20.8 PER
52% TS
105.8 Offensive Rating
103.6 Defensive Rating

LaMelo Ball
18.5 PER
47.9% TS
108.0 Offensive Rating
113.8 Defensive Rating

Killian Hayes (G-BBL)
15 PER
59% TS
106.1 Offensive Rating
110.2 Defensive Rating

Deni Avdija (I-BSL)
17 PER
61.3% TS
110.5 Offensive Rating
95.6 Defensive Rating

Patrick Williams
19.4 PER
55.3% TS
103.7 Offensive Rating
96.2 Defensive Rating

Tyrese Haliburton
26 PER
63.1% TS
121.5 Offensive Rating
101.1 Defensive Rating

Aaron Nesmith
29 PER
68.5% TS
127.8 Offensive Rating
106.8 Defensive Rating

Isaac Okoro
19 PER
58.7% TS
116.5 Offensive Rating
101.3 Defensive Rating

Cole Anthony
17.5 PER
50.1% TS
99.9 Offensive Rating
102.4 Defensive Rating

Tyrell Terry
19.3 PER
58.9% TS
108.0 Offensive Rating
91.3 Defensive Rating

RJ Hampton
12.7 PER
48.8% TS
99.5 Offensive Rating
111.6 Defensive Rating

Aleksej Pokusevski
25 PER
52.1% TS
105.4 Offensive Rating
84.4 Defensive Rating

In comparison to last NCAA season

Zion Williamson
41 PER
70.2% TS
133.1 Offensive Rating
87.4 Defensive Rating

Ja Morant
32 PER
61.2% TS
119.3 Offensive Rating
95.8 Defensive Rating

Coby White
19.2 PER
55.6% TS
110.6 Offensive Rating
98.9 Defensive Rating

Tyler Herro
19.4 PER
58% TS
119.7 Offensive Rating
98.1 Defensive Rating

[R3AL1TY]

Vassell looks like he can immediately be what Hutchinson hasn't fully lived up to.

Hutch had a low ceiling.

Hutch was seen as a 3 n D wing too, but he's been injury prone and lackluster in the half court. The only positives he has shown so far were transition offense and playing good defense.

[Jcool0]

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[gobullschi]

Vassell looks like he can immediately be what Hutchinson hasn't fully lived up to.

Hutch had a low ceiling.

Really? I always thought Hutch had an impressive handle for a guy with his size and athleticism. It’s too bad he’s been injured so much, was hoping he would be a diamond in the rough.

[PaKii94]

Advanced Stat Numbers

Devin Vassell
24 PER
58.5% TS
126.9 Offensive Rating
93.6 Defensive Rating

Anthony Edwards
20.8 PER
52% TS
105.8 Offensive Rating
103.6 Defensive Rating

LaMelo Ball
18.5 PER
47.9% TS
108.0 Offensive Rating
113.8 Defensive Rating

Killian Hayes (G-BBL)
15 PER
59% TS
106.1 Offensive Rating
110.2 Defensive Rating

Deni Avdija (I-BSL)
17 PER
61.3% TS
110.5 Offensive Rating
95.6 Defensive Rating

Patrick Williams
19.4 PER
55.3% TS
103.7 Offensive Rating
96.2 Defensive Rating

Tyrese Haliburton
26 PER
63.1% TS
121.5 Offensive Rating
101.1 Defensive Rating

Aaron Nesmith
29 PER
68.5% TS
127.8 Offensive Rating
106.8 Defensive Rating

Isaac Okoro
19 PER
58.7% TS
116.5 Offensive Rating
101.3 Defensive Rating

Cole Anthony
17.5 PER
50.1% TS
99.9 Offensive Rating
102.4 Defensive Rating

Tyrell Terry
19.3 PER
58.9% TS
108.0 Offensive Rating
91.3 Defensive Rating

RJ Hampton
12.7 PER
48.8% TS
99.5 Offensive Rating
111.6 Defensive Rating

Aleksej Pokusevski
25 PER
52.1% TS
105.4 Offensive Rating
84.4 Defensive Rating

In comparison to last NCAA season

Zion Williamson
41 PER
70.2% TS
133.1 Offensive Rating
87.4 Defensive Rating

Ja Morant
32 PER
61.2% TS
119.3 Offensive Rating
95.8 Defensive Rating

Coby White
19.2 PER
55.6% TS
110.6 Offensive Rating
98.9 Defensive Rating

Tyler Herro
19.4 PER
58% TS
119.7 Offensive Rating
98.1 Defensive Rating

Vassell is easily the best of the group this year. He brings the intangibles/efficient offense within the flow/elite defense.

I want him and one of haliburton/nesmith

[Bulls Fan 23]

Vassell and Haliburton would be a dream haul.

[PlayerUp]

Vassell is easily the best of the group this year. He brings the intangibles/efficient offense within the flow/elite defense.

I want him and one of haliburton/nesmith

Advanced stats don't necessarily indicate if a player will excel in the NBA. However what the advanced stats do show is that the freshman in this class are extremely weak which has made this draft class weak. Comparing drafts 2017-2018 this was not the case.

Now seen in recent years has been freshman who struggle and then blew up as sophomores. From Donovan Mitchell, to John Collins, to Ja Morant, we have seen stars come out their sophomore years.

Devin Vassell
Tyrese Haliburton
Aaron Nesmith

All 3 above have solid advanced numbers. Deni however also had solid advanced stats playing in a league better than the 3 above.

That said, not included in the list above is Obi Toppin who had a 33 PER, 125.3 Offensive Rating, 90.3 Defensive Rating and a 68.4% TS. You could argue his stats were inflated though due to his age and weak teams he played against.

In the end assuming we're going to be adding backcourt help we have to make a decision to go with underperforming freshman, sophomores who have smaller ceilings or go a bit more risky with international prospects.