The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8)

[ardee]

Man I haven't posted yet because it's still so surreal that the Lakers have won the title again.

[MisterHibachi]

Man I haven't posted yet because it's still so surreal that the Lakers have won the title again.

Congrats man!

[nzahir]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

gallo would be fantastic next to bron

He'd have to take MLE but how would he have a fit? Who does he defend? SG/SF?

Off the bench as a 6th man 3/4

Kuzma would be gone for a more defensive minded 3/4 I would think

[homecourtloss]

Top 2 man pairings (per 100 poss, minimum of 500 minutes) in the NBA playoffs, 2008-2020

2016, LBJ+T. Thompson, +16.9
2009, Kobe+Odom, +16.1
2009, Gasol+Odom, +15.5
2011, Dirk+Terry, +15.4
2016, JR+Love, +15.0
2016, LBJ+Love, +14.9
2016, Love+Kyrie, +14.9
2020, LBJ+AD, +14.8
2016, JR+T. Thompson, +14.7
2017, LBJ+Love, +14.3
2018, Curry+Green, +14.3
2008, KG+Perkins, +14.2
2011, Kidd+Dirk, +13.8
2012, LBJ+Wade, +13.5

If the cutoff is 400+ minutes then you also have

2017, Curry+Green, +20.9
2020,AD+Green, +19.4
2012, Duncan+Parker, +18.4
2011, Kidd+Terry, +18.2
2017, Curry+Klay, +17.8
2017, Curry+ KD, +17.1
2009, LBJ+ Varejao, +16.5
2020, LBJ+Green, +15.6
2018,KD+Curry, +15.3
2009, Odom+Aria, +15.2
2017, KD+Klay, +15.2
2012, Westbrook+Harden, +14.7

[Heej]

Top 2 man pairings (per 100 poss, minimum of 500 minutes) in the NBA playoffs, 2008-2020

2016, LBJ+T. Thompson, +16.9
2009, Kobe+Odom, +16.1
2009, Gasol+Odom, +15.5
2011, Dirk+Terry, +15.4
2016, JR+Love, +15.0
2016, LBJ+Love, +14.9
2016, Love+Kyrie, +14.9
2020, LBJ+AD, +14.8
2016, JR+T. Thompson, +14.7
2017, LBJ+Love, +14.3
2018, Curry+Green, +14.3
2008, KG+Perkins, +14.2
2011, Kidd+Dirk, +13.8
2012, LBJ+Wade, +13.5

If the cutoff is 400+ minutes then you also have

2017, Curry+Green, +20.9
2020,AD+Green, +19.4
2012, Duncan+Parker, +18.4
2011, Kidd+Terry, +18.2
2017, Curry+Klay, +17.8
2017, Curry+ KD, +17.1
2009, LBJ+ Varejao, +16.5
2020, LBJ+Green, +15.6
2018,KD+Curry, +15.3
2009, Odom+Aria, +15.2
2017, KD+Klay, +15.2
2012, Westbrook+Harden, +14.7

Lol maybe we all just gotta accept that Danny Green is here to stay and Lakers gotta try and trade Kuzma lol. I'm still down to give him one more season. I still believe in his work ethic

[homecourtloss]

LeBron has over 1,500 more playoff points than Michael Jordan. That’s bigger than the gap between Jordan and Julius Erving, who is in 8th place.

The gap between LeBron and Jordan in playoff win shares is bigger than the gap between Jordan and 12th place.

The gap between LeBron and Jordan in playoff VORP is 8.51, which is only 0.08 smaller than the gap between Jordan and Kobe. Kobe’s VORP is over half of LeBron’s.

Jordan stans better hope LeBron doesn’t get to 6 rings.

What’s incredible is how James stacks up if you take just his playoff runs in his thirties:

—He’d be 10th all time in VORP tied with Stockton
—He’d be 17th in win shares, just ahead of Wade
—He’d be 13th in offensive win shares, ahead of Stockton, Bird, Barkley, Curry, Harden, Hakeem, Karl Malone

That’s ludicrous

[GSP]

Watch on YouTube

My exact order pretty much.

I've been on the AD > Giannis for a bit. I think I have Kawhi over Giannis too as the only difference.

Projected KD and Curry right after Harden probably. You could talk me into ahead of him as well.

Crazy talent in the league right now.

Wow Embiid is insanely overrated it seems. He has no case for being top 10 this season. Was he even better than Rudy Gobert this season?

[Heej]

Watch on YouTube

My exact order pretty much.

I've been on the AD > Giannis for a bit. I think I have Kawhi over Giannis too as the only difference.

Projected KD and Curry right after Harden probably. You could talk me into ahead of him as well.

Crazy talent in the league right now.

Wow Embiid is insanely overrated it seems. He has no case for being top 10 this season. Was he even better than Rudy Gobert this season?

I'm sure this post is totally unbiased, being that GSP is a Celtics fan

[GSP]

My exact order pretty much.

I've been on the AD > Giannis for a bit. I think I have Kawhi over Giannis too as the only difference.

Projected KD and Curry right after Harden probably. You could talk me into ahead of him as well.

Crazy talent in the league right now.

Wow Embiid is insanely overrated it seems. He has no case for being top 10 this season. Was he even better than Rudy Gobert this season?

I'm sure this post is totally unbiased, being that GSP is a Celtics fan

We're 8-1 against Embiid in the playoffs........And they took an alltime fleecing from Ainge with the trading down Fultz/Tatum situation. Why would that affect my views on him

No Boston fan is worried about Embiid I can tell you that. Ben Simmons is the far more dangerous matchup for us specially being arguably the best Tatum defender in the Nba

We exposed his overrated defense and inability to guard the perimeter or pick and roll all series. For as much flack as Rudy gets defensively hes better than Embiid at almost every aspect of defense. Rudys playoff defense gets trashed for getting torched by Steph, Kd or Harden pick and rolls. Joel was getting abused by Kemba

Offensively Joel is the better low post scorer/foul drawer but hes not good enough against strong bulky/wide post defenders for it to be that valuable. Gets routinely shut down by the Marcs, Horfords, Baynes, Gobert etc. Even Jokic can stonewall him in the post Horrible passer specially against doubles, plays soft and shoots alot of midrange jumpers. We had Smart and sometimes even Kemba switched on him at points in the series and hed take a stepback fade from 15ft

Rudy has an offensive game that i think is much more scalable. Much better screener, better roller/rim gravity, better on offensive glass, much more active, better conditioned, #1 in screen assists for many seasons now etc. Hes not a very good offensive player or anything but neither is Joel and Rudys offensive traits has been important for their system for years now

[Heej]

Wow Embiid is insanely overrated it seems. He has no case for being top 10 this season. Was he even better than Rudy Gobert this season?

I'm sure this post is totally unbiased, being that GSP is a Celtics fan

We're 8-1 against Embiid in the playoffs........And they took an alltime fleecing from Ainge with the trading down Fultz/Tatum situation. Why would that affect my views on him

No Boston fan is worried about Embiid I can tell you that. Ben Simmons is the far more dangerous matchup for us specially being arguably the best Tatum defender in the Nba

We exposed his overrated defense and inability to guard the perimeter or pick and roll all series. For as much flack as Rudy gets defensively hes better than Embiid at almost every aspect of defense. Rudys playoff defense gets trashed for getting torched by Steph, Kd or Harden pick and rolls. Joel was getting abused by Kemba

Offensively Joel is the better low post scorer/foul drawer but hes not good enough against strong bulky/wide post defenders for it to be that valuable. Gets routinely shut down by the Marcs, Horfords, Baynes, Gobert etc. Even Jokic can stonewall him in the post Horrible passer specially against doubles, plays soft and shoots alot of midrange jumpers. We had Smart and sometimes even Kemba switched on him at points in the series and hed take a stepback fade from 15ft

Rudy has an offensive game that i think is much more scalable. Much better screener, better roller/rim gravity, better on offensive glass, much more active, better conditioned, #1 in screen assists for many seasons now etc. Hes not a very good offensive player or anything but neither is Joel and Rudys offensive traits has been important for their system for years now

C'mon man. He's a way better and more resilient scorer than Rudy Gobert lol. He's given the Celtics buckets in every playoff series. I don't think either guy is actually all that great a defender if you wanna win a championship tbh. Kemba is a very good guard vs drop coverage, and very much on par with the better guards in the league in only than one aspect. He'd fry Gobert too. It's just that he's somewhat worthless vs an athletic rangy playoff team with bigs like Bam.

I know you guys crap on Philly but I think you're letting your matchups color your opinion of him. And as a Boston fan you'll always have a subconscious bias against certain franchises, it's natural. Im a New Yorker and I hate every Boston team lol. Low key I'm a Brady stan tho after that Falcons Superbowl.

[kayess]

This may sound like a bunch of fairy tale nonsense to some, and maybe it is, so feel free to tell me if I’m wrong and reading things that aren’t there..... Or maybe you have the same thought I have and can simply express it better than me. But I firmly believe modern day Lebron has figured out a way to impose his will on the game mentally in a way that prior versions of him did not. There is just a certain vibe oozing out of him that screams total killer and fully in control. It just feels like he is mentally in a different stratosphere now. I don’t know how to express this or give examples other than my subjective reading of his body language

I think he for sure is better mentally now, but I still don't know about the 'killer' and 'fully in control' cliches. I mean if you look at his entire playoff career, when exactly was he not able to impose his will? Sure, his skillset has evolved throughout his career... But in retrospect, there's barely any evidence that he hasn't been able to impose his will to the extent he's capable of throughout his career.

2006: Debut, scorches the Wizards, lose to a far superior Pistons team but plays well
2007: ATG G5 vs. Detroi, flops vs. the Spurs because he's just too raw
2008: Inefficient in the series-ender, but was up against an ATG defense (played better vs. them than Kobe did despite an inferior cast, too)
2009: ATG playoff run
2010: Weird series vs. the Celtics - injury related?
2011: Skillset weakness + getting into his own head vs. the Mavs
2012: ATG playoff run
2013: Great playoff run, jumper leaves him for a bit but 4Q G6-G7 are all-timers. Wasn't scoring as well early on in the series though
2014: Great playoff run, just ran into a buzzsaw. Should've really been up 2-0 were it not due to cramps, then who knows
2015: I mean, the very definition of imposing his will right? Goes up 2-1 after losing Kyrie in G1, manages to make it a series
2016: Same here; you could argue they don't go down 3-1 with say 2018 LeBron, but do they win the series without 2016's combination of still incredible motor on the defensive end + his jump shooting, rim pressure?
2017, 2018: Warriors can't be beat, but by far the best player on the court. Post G1 2018, injures his hand and is not the same, but series was over anyway

So really, that's 2-4 series (First half of the 2013 and 2016 series if you wanna count that) where he wasn't able to impose his will LIFETIME.

I do think what can probably be tangibly measured is his decisiveness. There were times in the Denver series where he was still taking far too long to make decisions but I feel like he's generally improved in that area.

[Dupp]

Watch on YouTube

Some good stuff here from AD talking bout how much he looked up to lebron and him vs MJ etc.

[Heej]

Lol rewatching the game and this f***er Kuzma cost LeBron a 30.0ppg average with that idiotic lane violation on his and-1 near the end of the 3rd. Goddamn son just trade this guy

[Ursusamericanus]

Watch on YouTube

Some good stuff here from AD talking bout how much he looked up to lebron and him vs MJ etc.

“The only thing I can do is control the present. I can’t worry about yesterday and the future is a mystery.”


I really like how present-focused and into meditation LeBron is. Has always been something I've admired about him. I have been applying that to my own life and it has helped a lot.

[therealbig3]

Obviously, MJ vs LeBron is the talk of the town nowadays, and as someone who used to LOVE MJ and HATE LeBron, I wanted to make sure I didn't go too far the other way since becoming a LeBron fan.

What I will say: I think Jordan had the greatest peak and the greatest 5 year prime in history. I would take him at his best over LeBron at his best by a slim margin. I just think his aggression and his more consistent outside jumper made him a slightly more unstoppable force against all types of defenses than LeBron. I would give LeBron the edge on defense, but overall, I'd roll the dice on MJ's offense.

MJ's 89-93 stretch is the GOAT 5 year stretch to me.

With that said, the reason I'll take LeBron overall is because I'm getting somebody 95% as good as MJ for like twice as long. I can't ignore that kind of career value, even if MJ had the better peak.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Lol rewatching the game and this f***er Kuzma cost LeBron a 30.0ppg average with that idiotic lane violation on his and-1 near the end of the 3rd. Goddamn son just trade this guy

You went 180 in like 2 posts lol

Tbh out of the young core, kuz rn might be the best for a championship team. Ingrams D been trash this year, zo is too exploitable offensively at times, hart act mightve been better but

Kuz has slowly been turning into a great wing defender although he makes a 0 iq foul here and there. Hes clearly a talented scorer, if he could JUUUUST get that three point jumper passable hed be such a good piece. He mighr end up as an upper tier wing defender which we desperately need, he just reaaaally should only focus on his jumper this offseason

[Baski]

I don't want to look too far ahead but next season will be a fun one. Lebron, AD, and the rest of the team will be playing with more freedom and confidence after removing this weight off their shoulders. Lebron knows the MVP is up for grabs and will empty the clip for it. Hopefully Pelinka can make some moves to ensure that the half-court offense is better.

Can't wait to see the teams the media has penciled in as contenders (Warriors and Nets) fall flat on their faces.

No he will not. I swear we fall for this every year .

[nzahir]

Lol rewatching the game and this f***er Kuzma cost LeBron a 30.0ppg average with that idiotic lane violation on his and-1 near the end of the 3rd. Goddamn son just trade this guy

You went 180 in like 2 posts lol

Tbh out of the young core, kuz rn might be the best for a championship team. Ingrams D been trash this year, zo is too exploitable offensively at times, hart act mightve been better but

Kuz has slowly been turning into a great wing defender although he makes a 0 iq foul here and there. Hes clearly a talented scorer, if he could JUUUUST get that three point jumper passable hed be such a good piece. He mighr end up as an upper tier wing defender which we desperately need, he just reaaaally should only focus on his jumper this offseason

Kuzma pros:
6'9 frame
Has some good defensive moments
Good cutter who can get hot at times
Cheap and not so big cap hold I believe for 2021
Can replace Lebron or AD when they sit out games
Potential

Cons:
Bad shooter
Inconsistent on both ends
Below average iq
Not a great fit unless his jumper is fixed
Takes bad shots
Below average passer
Can be inefficient

He was our worst rotation guy in the finals or Dwight was (who had a decent game or 2 in limited min)

He wouldn't have been in Miami's rotation

If we can't get decent value for him, then no real reason to move him

Team needs: Shot creator, 3 pt shooter, wing defender

I would hope we can get 1 guy who can do the 1st two (JJ, Kennard, Gallo mle dream)

If we get a guy like Gallo, much less room for Kuzma, unless he becomes a more consistent defender

[The Master]

Tbh out of the young core, kuz rn might be the best for a championship team. Ingrams D been trash this year, zo is too exploitable offensively at times, hart act mightve been better but

The problem is ... Kuz isn't young anymore, dude is 25yo, and he is barely rotation guy for a championship team without great depth. He figured out some stuff on D, but he's still below average shooter, definitely not a great defender (although he's finally not bad) and not a good ballhandler either. His impact is basicaly streaky shooting, good offball cuts and offensive bursts in random unexpected moments.

Ingram has two more years of development in advantage, Kuz is nowhere near his level right now nor will be in two years from now. Ingram was able to make huge improvement in a shooting while Kuzma hasn't been.

That's probably last chance to sell him well and get some improvement in exchange.

[Dupp]

Top 2 man pairings (per 100 poss, minimum of 500 minutes) in the NBA playoffs, 2008-2020

2016, LBJ+T. Thompson, +16.9
2009, Kobe+Odom, +16.1
2009, Gasol+Odom, +15.5
2011, Dirk+Terry, +15.4
2016, JR+Love, +15.0
2016, LBJ+Love, +14.9
2016, Love+Kyrie, +14.9
2020, LBJ+AD, +14.8
2016, JR+T. Thompson, +14.7
2017, LBJ+Love, +14.3
2018, Curry+Green, +14.3
2008, KG+Perkins, +14.2
2011, Kidd+Dirk, +13.8
2012, LBJ+Wade, +13.5

If the cutoff is 400+ minutes then you also have

2017, Curry+Green, +20.9
2020,AD+Green, +19.4
2012, Duncan+Parker, +18.4
2011, Kidd+Terry, +18.2
2017, Curry+Klay, +17.8
2017, Curry+ KD, +17.1
2009, LBJ+ Varejao, +16.5
2020, LBJ+Green, +15.6
2018,KD+Curry, +15.3
2009, Odom+Aria, +15.2
2017, KD+Klay, +15.2
2012, Westbrook+Harden, +14.7

Lol maybe we all just gotta accept that Danny Green is here to stay and Lakers gotta try and trade Kuzma lol. I'm still down to give him one more season. I still believe in his work ethic

I like green and have no problems with him staying. Dudes a winner and a very versatile defender. Keeps the Lakers a massive team.


Just looked at greens playoff 3 point shooting and most years it’s pretty average other than 13 and 14 where dude was shooting 48% from three. (55% in the 13 finals)