Michael Jordan is still the GOAT. Lebron has solidified the #2 spot though.

[AlexanderRight]

Meh, whatever. All impact metrics_which can be somewhat noisy anyway—say they're the two best players ever. MJ lost to lesser teams than LeBron and took way longer to get to the finals. This "once he became the best player he never lost" cutoff is arbitrary and implicitly devalues LeBron taking *horrible* teams to the finals and conference finals when he had no business doing so. MJ doesn't have a 2011 finals collapse, sure, but he did get the ball stolen from him by Nick Anderson and lose to the Magic in 6 games. LeBron wouldn't get that excuse at all (even though it prob. more came down to not replacing Horace Grant, but then again, LeBron is so big and strong who's to say he doesn't take over rebounding and fill out that role and still keep up his numbers?). To me, LeBron's longterm output and history of carrying even worse teams than Jordan to better regular season and postseason success before he won a chip makes the whole rings thing a draw. MJ is winning the 2011 Finals, but thats it. LeBron and MJ are tied for impact at best, but the longevity and sustained dominance really favors LeBron. He has to be considered better than 2nd three-peat MJ at this point at this point in his career.

So we’re gonna compare Jordan loosing to Shaq and Penny after only playing 16 NBA games in two years to Lebron choking against Dallas with a prime Wade and Bosh by his side? Outside of that, MJ lost in the first round to the top seed as a rookie and two dynasties in the Larry Bird Celtics and the Bad Boys Pistons who would have three peated if it wasn’t for bogus Kareem foul. Lebron got outplayed by Jason Terry and lost to Dwight Howard...

[homecourtloss]

I already put this in the thread but people seem to only reply to the post without these numbers, I just got tired of replying

Added LeBron’s Numbers

League average TS% in 1996, 54.2%; league average eFG%: 49.9%
1996 Playoffs Jordan: 56.4% TS, 49% eFG
1996 Finals Jordan: 53.8%, TS, 43.9% eFG

League average TS% in 1997, 53.6%; league average eFG%: 49.3%
1997 Playoffs Jordan: 52.4%, TS, 46.9% eFG
1997 Finals Jordan: 53.2%, TS, 48.1% eFG

League average TS% in 1998, 52.4%; league average eFG%: 47.8%
1998 Playoffs Jordan: 54.5%, TS, 47.4% eFG
1998 Finals Jordan: 51.6% TS, 43.9% eFG


League average TS% in 2014, 54.1%; league average eFG%: 50.1%
2014 Playoffs LeBron: 66.8%, TS, 61.6% eFG
2014 Finals LeBron: 67.9% TS, 64.8% eFG

League average TS% in 2015, 53.4%; league average eFG%: 49.6%
2015 Playoffs LeBron: 48.7%, TS, 44.0% eFG
2015 Finals LeBron: 47.7% TS, 43.1% eFG

League average TS% in 2016: 54.1%; league average eFG%: 50.2%
2016 Playoffs LeBron: 58.5% TS, 56.4% eFG
2016Finals LeBron: 56.2% TS, 53.3% eFG

League average TS% in 2017, 55.2%; league average eFG%: 51.4%
2017 Playoffs LeBron: 64.9% TS, 62.2% eFG
2017 Finals LeBron: 63.0%, TS, 61.5% eFG

League average TS% in 2018, 55.6%; league average eFG%: 52.1%
2018 Playoffs LeBron: 61.9%, TS, 57.7% eFG
2018 Finals LeBron: 62.0% TS, 55.9% eFG

League average TS% in 2020, 56.5%; league average eFG%: 52.5%
2020 Playoffs LeBron: 64.7%, TS, 61.8% eFG
2020 Finals LeBron: 67.1% TS, 65.7% eFG

Not sure what the obsession with TS% is. (Also, it's notable that you left out all of Jordan's best runs and all of James' worst ones.) TS% is a very limited statistic that doesn't take into account role, responsibility, defense, minutes played, offensive burden relative to the team, etc., etc., etc..

If the best TS% was so important, the Utah Jazz would be World Champions right now.

They had the best TS% in the playoffs, at .616, and they lost in the First Round.

The point is to point out the ridiculous nature of the RANGZZ argument when you have a player play as well as LeBron did against some of the best teams of all time but lost so it doesn’t count whereas Jordan in his second three peat didn’t score efficiently (yes, high volume) and that the Bulls’ defense deserves a lot of credit. Didn’t put 2012 and 2013 because James won. Could put 2011 up here. For that matter, LeBron scored better and more efficiently in years he lost than he won (2012 and 2013) against all time teams.

[scrabbarista]

By the time 35 year-old Jordan reached the '98 Finals, he'd been playing 36 minutes per 48 hours for 7.5 months straight, while having to deal with travel between cities for 103 games.

When 35 year-old James reached the '20 Finals, he'd been playing 36 minutes per 66 hours [18 hours of extra rest per 36!] for 2.5 months, while never having to travel between any of 28 games.

One is entitled to their own opinion, but I think that if one lets those numbers sink in, it's very clear which player faced greater physical and mental drains on his way to the title. There is nothing that can or should invalidate the 2020 championship versus any other, but there is doubt in my mind about how James would have stood up to a full NBA schedule at his age, particularly with the precedent of the 2018-2019 season to guide me.

Honestly, I thi the 2019 season shouldn't guide anybody, and that's what this season basically proved. In the playoffs it honestly seemed like LeBron got more athletic and springier with each round and as I've mentioned, neither this year's nor last year's teams are have been built to maximize LeBron per se. I'm honestly not convinced LeBron couldn't have had a 2018-like playoff run if AD weren't here and they stuck CJ McCollum on his team and surrounded him with a bunch of great shooters and maybe one good perimeter defender and Dwight Howard.

By 2018 I think LeBron had already played more than MJ ever did and had way more mileage on his legs. I don't think there's a lot of evidence that LeBron was going to perform worse. He gets stronger and better during a season, conserves himself and that's just how it goes.

I find it dubious that James' mileage from three, four, five, or ten years ago should be considered too much here. (Like, what physical activity that you did ten years ago is making your legs "tired" today? Weird argument, imho.) It's the consistent, nonstop lack of rest (cited already in my post) that is surely more relevant.

If you think 2020 proved we should ignore 2019, then you've missed my point about how 2020 was different from all other seasons. James played a total of 56 games in 2020, over a span of ten and a half months. That's about one game every 5.5 days; if 2020 had been a normal season, the Lakers would've played every 2.5 days in 2020 (I've done the math). I think it's reasonable to consider that this difference might have helped out a guy in his mid-30's, especially when the only other season he ever played in his mid-30's, he did in fact struggle with injuries.

Of course, you can believe whatever you want, and so can I. I'm just explaining my point of view.

[toodles23]

When Jordan became the undisputed best player in the league, he never lost in the Playoffs other than when he came back after leaving the league.

When LeBron became the undisputed best player in the league, he lost multiple times in the finals.

This is so dumb. MJ was a *much* better player from '88-'90 when he lost to the Pistons every year than he was during the second 3peat. The difference is that he was playing with a much better supporting cast in a very watered down league.

[twyzted]

Meh, whatever. All impact metrics_which can be somewhat noisy anyway—say they're the two best players ever. MJ lost to lesser teams than LeBron and took way longer to get to the finals. This "once he became the best player he never lost" cutoff is arbitrary and implicitly devalues LeBron taking *horrible* teams to the finals and conference finals when he had no business doing so. MJ doesn't have a 2011 finals collapse, sure, but he did get the ball stolen from him by Nick Anderson and lose to the Magic in 6 games. LeBron wouldn't get that excuse at all (even though it prob. more came down to not replacing Horace Grant, but then again, LeBron is so big and strong who's to say he doesn't take over rebounding and fill out that role and still keep up his numbers?). To me, LeBron's longterm output and history of carrying even worse teams than Jordan to better regular season and postseason success before he won a chip makes the whole rings thing a draw. MJ is winning the 2011 Finals, but thats it. LeBron and MJ are tied for impact at best, but the longevity and sustained dominance really favors LeBron. He has to be considered better than 2nd three-peat MJ at this point at this point in his career.

Mj lost to celtics, pistons, magic and 85 bucks with highest srs in the league. Outside of the warriors. The celtics are better then every team lebron lost or won against. Pistons atleast around the spurs.
That magic was also very good.
He played the bucks as a rookie and they were very good.

And Nick anderson stole the ball?
Ray allen hit a shot against the spurs to prevent heat losing a final. Kyrie vs warriors.
Holy mental gymnastics.

Lol nah yo. MJ screwed up and lost to the Magic, period. Keep that same energy.

Ray Allen did his job. LeBron scored like 20 points right before that. Kyrie was great in that finals, maybe he was kind of almost as good as Scottie Pippen for that run. Only LeBron has teammates *actually doing their job* used against him lol you just compared his teammates doing what they were literally supposed to do with MJ getting the ball stolen in an iconic mental lapse.

No shame in losing to any of those teams, but if people hold LeBron to the finals losses, than hold MJ to his making the finals less than LeBron. It only makes sense.

Also, that's just the postseason. In the regular season LeBron's dragging that '09 Cavs team to 66 wins is probably something MJ's not capable of.

Lol
You do realise that lebron is the leader in turnovers in both playoffs and finals.
Epic iconic mental lapse did you forget 2011?

No winning 6/6 is better than 4/10
Winning a title in 40% of his season is also better then 20% that is with wizards years.
Wow you want yet another partcipant trophy for record in rs
Let me know when lebron finish a season 88-13 regular season and playoffs with mvp, fmvp, all nba #1 and all defense #1.
Also let me know when lebron gets to .500 in finals record.
So no it makes no sense. 2nd is not first so no trophy for just playing along.

[twyzted]

When Jordan became the undisputed best player in the league, he never lost in the Playoffs other than when he came back after leaving the league.

When LeBron became the undisputed best player in the league, he lost multiple times in the finals.

This is so dumb. MJ was a *much* better player from '88-'90 when he lost to the Pistons every year than he was during the second 3peat. The difference is that he was playing with a much better supporting cast in a very watered down league.

Do you even know how expansion works?
Team could protect 8 players.
Expansion teams could pick 1 player from a team, the other team could not pick from the same team.
So hornets take a guy from bulls. Heat cant pick from the bulls.
So 88 heat and hornets
89 magic and timberwolves
95 raptors and grizzlies.
So you think that by losing 1 player a guy who would not see the floor in the playoffs.
Teams got significantly worse.

[toodles23]

When Jordan became the undisputed best player in the league, he never lost in the Playoffs other than when he came back after leaving the league.

When LeBron became the undisputed best player in the league, he lost multiple times in the finals.

This is so dumb. MJ was a *much* better player from '88-'90 when he lost to the Pistons every year than he was during the second 3peat. The difference is that he was playing with a much better supporting cast in a very watered down league.

Do you even know how expansion works?
Team could protect 8 players.
Expansion teams could pick 1 player from a team, the other team could not pick from the same team.
So hornets take a guy from bulls. Heat cant pick from the bulls.
So 88 heat and hornets
89 magic and timberwolves
95 raptors and grizzlies.
So you think that by losing 1 player a guy who would not see the floor in the playoffs.
Teams got significantly worse.

Expansion is only a small part of the league being watered down, the bigger reason by far is the run of terrible draft classes from 1988-1993, a 6 year stretch where the only truly great player drafted was Shaq. There were almost no young stars in the league at all, in 1998 for example all of the best players in the league besides Shaq were at least 30 years old, something that has never happened at any other point in league history. Usually the best players in the league are mostly in their 20s.

[CodeBreaker]

1. MJ
2. LeBron

and then the rest

[Jables]

He was already number 2 in most peoples eyes because they haven't seen Kareem or the other old greats play. Most of us haven't.

[Clutch0z24]

Bird and Magic dont take **** for losing in the finals like lebron does. To me magic being 5-4 and Lebron being 4-6 are more impressive then Jordans 6-0 because its who they played. Lebron is losing to Duncan and the Spurs and the warriors who are maybe the best team ever with 5 hof's. Jordan is getting three rings off the late 90's with NBA expansion and high schoolers coming into the league. Not to mention pre euro push.

Yep. Losing is more impressive.

Getting to the finals is impressive. When your playing all time great teams and players there is nothing wrong with losing. Not everyone gets to clean up on trash like Jordan did. Also why is losing before the finals okay?

Your realgm name disqualifies you to post in arguments over which players are better then other players

The teams Jordan played are just as good if not better then the teams LBJ beat in the Finals ...Only team you have a case with is that GSW team if my memory serves me correct they were hindered , injured, and a suspension all helped LeBron...So even that team wasn't at full strength....Other then that who did LBJ beat in the finals?....

an aging spurs team
A baby rookie OKC Team
a shaky GSW team
a 5th seeded easiest finals Matchup ever in Miami...

Out of all of them teams i can easily say Jordan beat better competition then LBJ ...And this is just talking about Finals if i talked about LBJ Paths to the title in the Eastern Conference vs Jordans Path ....It would make it look even worse for LBJ...

[70sFan]

1. MJ
2. LeBron

and then the rest

1. Kareem
2 LeBron
3. Russell
4. MJ

and then the rest.

[twyzted]

This is so dumb. MJ was a *much* better player from '88-'90 when he lost to the Pistons every year than he was during the second 3peat. The difference is that he was playing with a much better supporting cast in a very watered down league.

Do you even know how expansion works?
Team could protect 8 players.
Expansion teams could pick 1 player from a team, the other team could not pick from the same team.
So hornets take a guy from bulls. Heat cant pick from the bulls.
So 88 heat and hornets
89 magic and timberwolves
95 raptors and grizzlies.
So you think that by losing 1 player a guy who would not see the floor in the playoffs.
Teams got significantly worse.

Expansion is only a small part of the league being watered down, the bigger reason by far is the run of terrible draft classes from 1988-1993, a 6 year stretch where the only truly great player drafted was Shaq. There were almost no young stars in the league at all, in 1998 for example all of the best players in the league besides Shaq were at least 30 years old, something that has never happened at any other point in league history. Usually the best players in the league are mostly in their 20s.

Grant hill, Chris Webber, Tim Duncan, Allen Iverson, Ray allen, penny, kemp, payton all under 30
I have always been fascinated by when compairing Jordans era vs current as soon as player turned 30 yeah he was ancient, washed up.
Then spurs who were 37, 36, 32 plus kawhi 22
Nowitzki 32, kidd 37, terry 33 marion 32
Either age is a factor for both or non.

[toodles23]

Do you even know how expansion works?
Team could protect 8 players.
Expansion teams could pick 1 player from a team, the other team could not pick from the same team.
So hornets take a guy from bulls. Heat cant pick from the bulls.
So 88 heat and hornets
89 magic and timberwolves
95 raptors and grizzlies.
So you think that by losing 1 player a guy who would not see the floor in the playoffs.
Teams got significantly worse.

Expansion is only a small part of the league being watered down, the bigger reason by far is the run of terrible draft classes from 1988-1993, a 6 year stretch where the only truly great player drafted was Shaq. There were almost no young stars in the league at all, in 1998 for example all of the best players in the league besides Shaq were at least 30 years old, something that has never happened at any other point in league history. Usually the best players in the league are mostly in their 20s.

Grant hill, Chris Webber, Tim Duncan, Allen Iverson, Ray allen, penny, kemp, payton all under 30
I have always been fascinated by when compairing Jordans era vs current as soon as player turned 30 yeah he was ancient, washed up.
Then spurs who were 37, 36, 32 plus kawhi 22
Nowitzki 32, kidd 37, terry 33 marion 32
Either age is a factor for both or non.

Thanks for proving my point, I appreciate it.

- Grant Hill was drafted after the 6 year run of terrible drafts I talked about. He was a legit allstar level player but never even got out of the first round.

- Webber was a headcase playing no defense and putting up empty stats on a Wizards team that missed the playoffs

- Duncan was a rookie

- Iverson was a second year inefficient chucker who played no defense on a 31 win team

- Ray Allen was a second year player nowhere near his prime form, playing on a 36 win team

- Penny was injured and played 19 out of 82 games

- Shawn Kemp was traded to Cleveland that year, gained a ton of weight and was never the same

- Gary Payton was a damn good player, but he's a fringe top 50 alltime type of guy. He was also given a DPOY in an era where voters had almost no understanding of how to evaluate defense. It was the equivalent of giving the DPOY to 2020 Marcus Smart

[twyzted]

Expansion is only a small part of the league being watered down, the bigger reason by far is the run of terrible draft classes from 1988-1993, a 6 year stretch where the only truly great player drafted was Shaq. There were almost no young stars in the league at all, in 1998 for example all of the best players in the league besides Shaq were at least 30 years old, something that has never happened at any other point in league history. Usually the best players in the league are mostly in their 20s.

Grant hill, Chris Webber, Tim Duncan, Allen Iverson, Ray allen, penny, kemp, payton all under 30
I have always been fascinated by when compairing Jordans era vs current as soon as player turned 30 yeah he was ancient, washed up.
Then spurs who were 37, 36, 32 plus kawhi 22
Nowitzki 32, kidd 37, terry 33 marion 32
Either age is a factor for both or non.

Thanks for proving my point, I appreciate it.

- Grant Hill was drafted after the 6 year run of terrible drafts I talked about. He was a legit allstar level player but never even got out of the first round.

- Webber was a headcase playing no defense and putting up empty stats on a Wizards team that missed the playoffs

- Duncan was a rookie

- Iverson was a second year inefficient chucker who played no defense on a 31 win team

- Ray Allen was a second year player nowhere near his prime form, playing on a 36 win team

- Penny was injured and played 19 out of 82 games

- Shawn Kemp was traded to Cleveland that year, gained a ton of weight and was never the same

- Gary Payton was a damn good player, but he's a fringe top 50 alltime type of guy. He was also given a DPOY in an era where voters had almost no understanding of how to evaluate defense. It was the equivalent of giving the DPOY to 2020 Marcus Smart

Umm i proved that there were stars under 30. Penny was still among best players in the league. But note taken player injured automaticly not a star or a good player
Iverson was a star.
Hill was a star.
Webber also a star
Duncan a star. Highest dws, top in ws, ws/48, vorp, dpbm, 12 th in bpm. No definetly not a star
Kemp a star playing like before.

Also that comment about Gary Payton
Proves that you know very little what you are talking about
Next your gonna say pippen and jordan were not great defenders because voters had no understanding of basketball
You didnt address why over 30 seems to only matter when it is used to dimish Jordan
But lbj losing to celtics all over 30, mavs all well over 30, spurs over 30 is all fine and dandy.
Seems like double standards to me

[Alize]

Lol Rookie Tim Duncan is part of the Jordan era? Sure, and Rookie/Sophmore Iverson? Sure.

Garnett > Webber, KD > Hill, Derrick Rose > Payton, the 90s was a washed era, dont let me start with role players, where the real trash begins, guys who cant shoot and dribble

Grant hill, Chris Webber, Tim Duncan, Allen Iverson, Ray allen, penny, kemp, payton all under 30
I have always been fascinated by when compairing Jordans era vs current as soon as player turned 30 yeah he was ancient, washed up.
Then spurs who were 37, 36, 32 plus kawhi 22
Nowitzki 32, kidd 37, terry 33 marion 32
Either age is a factor for both or non.

Thanks for proving my point, I appreciate it.

- Grant Hill was drafted after the 6 year run of terrible drafts I talked about. He was a legit allstar level player but never even got out of the first round.

- Webber was a headcase playing no defense and putting up empty stats on a Wizards team that missed the playoffs

- Duncan was a rookie

- Iverson was a second year inefficient chucker who played no defense on a 31 win team

- Ray Allen was a second year player nowhere near his prime form, playing on a 36 win team

- Penny was injured and played 19 out of 82 games

- Shawn Kemp was traded to Cleveland that year, gained a ton of weight and was never the same

- Gary Payton was a damn good player, but he's a fringe top 50 alltime type of guy. He was also given a DPOY in an era where voters had almost no understanding of how to evaluate defense. It was the equivalent of giving the DPOY to 2020 Marcus Smart

Umm i proved that there were stars under 30. Penny was still among best players in the league. But note taken player injured automaticly not a star or a good player
Iverson was a star.
Hill was a star.
Webber also a star
Duncan a star. Highest dws, top in ws, ws/48, vorp, dpbm, 12 th in bpm. No definetly not a star
Kemp a star playing like before.

Also that comment about Gary Payton
Proves that you know very little what you are talking about
Next your gonna say pippen and jordan were not great defenders because voters had no understanding of basketball
You didnt address why over 30 seems to only matter when it is used to dimish Jordan
But lbj losing to celtics all over 30, mavs all well over 30, spurs over 30 is all fine and dandy.
Seems like double standards to me

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

[twyzted]

Lol Rookie Tim Duncan is part of the Jordan era? Sure, and Rookie/Sophmore Iverson? Sure.

Garnett > Webber, KD > Hill, Derrick Rose > Payton, the 90s was a washed era, dont let me start with role players, where the real trash begins, guys who cant shoot and dribble

Thanks for proving my point, I appreciate it.

- Grant Hill was drafted after the 6 year run of terrible drafts I talked about. He was a legit allstar level player but never even got out of the first round.

- Webber was a headcase playing no defense and putting up empty stats on a Wizards team that missed the playoffs

- Duncan was a rookie

- Iverson was a second year inefficient chucker who played no defense on a 31 win team

- Ray Allen was a second year player nowhere near his prime form, playing on a 36 win team

- Penny was injured and played 19 out of 82 games

- Shawn Kemp was traded to Cleveland that year, gained a ton of weight and was never the same

- Gary Payton was a damn good player, but he's a fringe top 50 alltime type of guy. He was also given a DPOY in an era where voters had almost no understanding of how to evaluate defense. It was the equivalent of giving the DPOY to 2020 Marcus Smart

Umm i proved that there were stars under 30. Penny was still among best players in the league. But note taken player injured automaticly not a star or a good player
Iverson was a star.
Hill was a star.
Webber also a star
Duncan a star. Highest dws, top in ws, ws/48, vorp, dpbm, 12 th in bpm. No definetly not a star
Kemp a star playing like before.

Also that comment about Gary Payton
Proves that you know very little what you are talking about
Next your gonna say pippen and jordan were not great defenders because voters had no understanding of basketball
You didnt address why over 30 seems to only matter when it is used to dimish Jordan
But lbj losing to celtics all over 30, mavs all well over 30, spurs over 30 is all fine and dandy.
Seems like double standards to me

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

He said there where no stars under 30 in 98.
I posted under 30 star players in 98.
How you got that this was comparing eras i have no idea.
Holy **** you mad
That comparison is cherry picking to paint some bs picture.

[prophet_of_rage]

When Jordan became the undisputed best player in the league, he never lost in the Playoffs other than when he came back after leaving the league.

When LeBron became the undisputed best player in the league, he lost multiple times in the finals.

Jordan was considered the best player in the league in 1988. He didn't win until he had the best team in the league.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[prophet_of_rage]

I often see the argument of winning the title for 3 different teams and longevity as some kinds of legit brownie point for GOAT discussion is lame. A title is a title. If Kawhi ends up winning another title, does that make him a GOAT level player?

For longevity talk, let be honest here. If MJ realized the ramification of retiring for two seasons and what it did to his legacy as far as longevity, he would have kept playing until the wheel fell off. As a matter of fact, I view that as MJ giving other players the opportunity to chase down his accolades because had he played in those two seasons and the potential accolades he could have gotten vs the already impressive resume, the distance between him vs 2nd guy would be HUGE. The fact he was so dominant with limit seasons played just to show how insane his resume really is. Lebron is the only current player with statistical data, eye-test, and accolades to come close to MJ resume just show why MJ is still the GOAT. Lebron has an uphill battle to chase MJ but he has a chance nonetheless. He just needs to show me that in future years. We all shall witness if he can do it or not.

All Lebron has to do is launch a media blitz like MJ did then and now.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[prophet_of_rage]

it’s hard for me to give someone the ‘GOAT’ status when they’ve lost more finals than they’ve won, especially when the guy he’s trying to pass has never lost a final.

It puzzles me how people continue to use the "losing in the finals" argument.

Using that same logic, let's say Jordan had led his team to the finals 4 more times but failed to beat the western conference opponent - would he be considered a worse player now? You'd basically be arguing that if he had led his team to more wins and greater playoff success, he'd be a worse player.

Why is losing in the finals a blemish on your resume, but not making it to the finals isn't?

Brainwashing. Nike is the only winner here.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[Joao Saraiva]

OP mentioned all the stats he wanted. I'm going to do the same.

Assists per game:
- Jordan's best season was at 8 APG
- LeBron has 5 seasons above that, peaking at 10.2

Assists total:
- Jordan 5633
- LeBron 9346

LeBron is about to double MJ in assists in the regular season only.

Rebounds per game:
- Jordan's best season was at 8 RPG
- LeBron has 3 seasons above that and one equal.

Total rebounds:
- Jordan 6672
- LeBron 9405

There is almost a 3000 difference rebound wise.

Point total:
- Jordan 32292
- LeBron 32241

Seasons above 60ts%
Jordan 4
LeBron 6

Best ts%
Jordan 61.4
LeBron 64

WS
Jordan 214
LeBron 236.4

This is only in the regular season. But let's see how they perform in the post season.

Runs above 30 PER
Jordan 4
LeBron 7

Times they lead both teams in GmSC in the finals:
Jordan 5
LeBron 6

So LeBron was actually the best player on the court in the finals more times than Michael Jordan.

Total points
Jordan 5987
LeBron 7491

Total rebounds
Jordan 1152
LeBron 2348

Total assists
Jordan 1022
LeBron 1871

Runs above 60ts%
Jordan 1
LeBron 6

LeBron is much more efficient with his scoring. Therefore is the advantage on PPG so important since LeBron outrebounds MJ and outassists him largely?

Peak ts%
MJ 60.2
LeBron 66.8


I can carry on with the stupidity. See OP, we can all play the dumb game according to whatever agenda we have.
MJ has a case for GOAT. So does LeBron. And you guys gotta live with that. Hate LBJ or not, he's got the case.

Gonna love when fans use stat totals to prove a point lol .. Your a jazz fan right ? Have you ever heard of anyone trying to boost up Karl Malone cause all of his longevity stats? I’ve only heard about using totals when Lebron’s name gets mentioned

I'm pretty sure Duncan is very high on all time lists in part due to longevity. I personally have him above Shaq, and I think prime and peak Shaq is above Duncan.

I also have Karl Malone in my top 15 and Stockton in my top 25.

Have you have ever heard KAJ has an argument for GOAT? Longevity is a big part of it.

I don't really get it why LeBron shouldn't get credit for his longevity like everyone else does.

There is a reason why Walton is not in my top 100. And he wasn't in the last realgm top 100 players.

How is that for a change? It's more like: longevity shouldn't count for you guys because you don't like LeBron. I'm not the one being biased here.