The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8)

[DatAsh]

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I think you need to add the Celtics to your list my guy. It would be absolute must watch TV if the Lakers and Celtics duke it out next year for #18. That's the type of stuff that cements a GOAT legacy

That would be really fun! Whoever wins becomes the winningest franchise ever. I would definitely favor the Lakers, though. They've got the best 2 players in the series, and their roll players are better than people give them credit for.

[PistolPeteJR]

Barring injury I think they retool a bit and repeat.

I don’t really see anyone other than the Nuggets and or maybe the Clippers, who still are without an identity, who can legit give them problems.

I think they take anyone on from the East, besting AD and old man Bron 4 out of 7 will take extreme talent and luck too, there I see the Nets and maybe Boston and of course the Heat as posing some problems, but still not confident in any of them.

During the season there will be chatter that LeBron has lost another step but it won’t matter come playoffs, he’s just too good.

At this point, I don't think we can really look at the regular season to tell us much of anything about Lebron. It's very clear that he coasts heavily during the regular season. Playoff Lebron is his actual level.

I've honestly been saying this since 2014, and to a lesser extent, 2011 even, when the Celtics and Bulls both killed the Heat in the regular season only to have the Heat absolutely gobble them up in the playoffs, and it's exactly what bugs me the most about LeBron haters and how year in, year out, in the regular season they want to play the "wow he declined" card.

What they cling to now is the whole "he didn't make the playoffs in 2019 see he sucked", completely ignoring context (ie. injuries to multiple players including James, crappy coaching, etc).

[PistolPeteJR]

I'm sure this post is totally unbiased, being that GSP is a Celtics fan

We're 8-1 against Embiid in the playoffs........And they took an alltime fleecing from Ainge with the trading down Fultz/Tatum situation. Why would that affect my views on him

No Boston fan is worried about Embiid I can tell you that. Ben Simmons is the far more dangerous matchup for us specially being arguably the best Tatum defender in the Nba

We exposed his overrated defense and inability to guard the perimeter or pick and roll all series. For as much flack as Rudy gets defensively hes better than Embiid at almost every aspect of defense. Rudys playoff defense gets trashed for getting torched by Steph, Kd or Harden pick and rolls. Joel was getting abused by Kemba

Offensively Joel is the better low post scorer/foul drawer but hes not good enough against strong bulky/wide post defenders for it to be that valuable. Gets routinely shut down by the Marcs, Horfords, Baynes, Gobert etc. Even Jokic can stonewall him in the post Horrible passer specially against doubles, plays soft and shoots alot of midrange jumpers. We had Smart and sometimes even Kemba switched on him at points in the series and hed take a stepback fade from 15ft

Rudy has an offensive game that i think is much more scalable. Much better screener, better roller/rim gravity, better on offensive glass, much more active, better conditioned, #1 in screen assists for many seasons now etc. Hes not a very good offensive player or anything but neither is Joel and Rudys offensive traits has been important for their system for years now

C'mon man. He's a way better and more resilient scorer than Rudy Gobert lol. He's given the Celtics buckets in every playoff series. I don't think either guy is actually all that great a defender if you wanna win a championship tbh. Kemba is a very good guard vs drop coverage, and very much on par with the better guards in the league in only than one aspect. He'd fry Gobert too. It's just that he's somewhat worthless vs an athletic rangy playoff team with bigs like Bam.

I know you guys crap on Philly but I think you're letting your matchups color your opinion of him. And as a Boston fan you'll always have a subconscious bias against certain franchises, it's natural. Im a New Yorker and I hate every Boston team lol. Low key I'm a Brady stan tho after that Falcons Superbowl.

Not to mention that the Celtics didn't stop Embiid from anything this year. When the team is a poor fit and they're missing their second-best/most important player, it's much easier to limit ONE player.

[dcstanley]

Not to gloat but I deserve some credit for being one of the cooler heads when a bunch of y'all were overreacting after every loss or a bad game.

Anyway, 4MVPs and 4 titles. Gonna be a good night to browse reddit and GB

I'm right there with ya Paulie. Some of us have to remain calm in the middle of the Homer38 and nzahir's storms of the world

Man, those 48 hours of hysteria after game 5 were something else. Not even gonna lie, I could barely sleep after that game . The thought of Lebron blowing a 3-1 lead kept hitting me like a ton of bricks.

There's something about Lebron that triggers the biggest overreactions. The haters were out in full force and many of us stans were in full doom and gloom mode. In retrospect, all of it was silly.

[Heej]

Not to gloat but I deserve some credit for being one of the cooler heads when a bunch of y'all were overreacting after every loss or a bad game.

Anyway, 4MVPs and 4 titles. Gonna be a good night to browse reddit and GB

I'm right there with ya Paulie. Some of us have to remain calm in the middle of the Homer38 and nzahir's storms of the world

Man, those 48 hours of hysteria after game 5 were something else. Not even gonna lie, I could barely sleep after that game . The thought of Lebron blowing a 3-1 lead kept hitting me like a ton of bricks.

There's something about Lebron that triggers the biggest overreactions. The haters were out in full force and many of us stans were in full doom and gloom mode. In retrospect, all of it was silly.

You know why man. It all circles back to 2011. Well forever have PTSD from it and the haters will always think he's only one meltdown away. No one's come to grips with the fact that he's a completely different person now and that you may as well completely erase that series from the memory books when trying to forecast current Lebron.

Zach Lowe always talks about how Jordan just felt inevitable. Like you never entertained the idea of him losing. LeBron kinda lost that luster for good 10 years ago, but I'm kinda glad because the uncertainty is what makes the victories that much sweeter.

[dcstanley]

Best case scenario: The Lakers go through both the Clippers and Warriors next season in the playoffs. That would mean Lebron defeated the Blazers, Rockets, Nuggets, Clippers, and Warriors in two seasons.. The best the West has had to offer in the past several years.

I think the Clippers could be a real threat next season but my concern level with the Warriors is contingent on what they do with their pick. I can't imagine them fielding a serious contender if they don't trade the pick for pieces that can shore up some of their weaknesses.

[dcstanley]

I'm right there with ya Paulie. Some of us have to remain calm in the middle of the Homer38 and nzahir's storms of the world

Man, those 48 hours of hysteria after game 5 were something else. Not even gonna lie, I could barely sleep after that game . The thought of Lebron blowing a 3-1 lead kept hitting me like a ton of bricks.

There's something about Lebron that triggers the biggest overreactions. The haters were out in full force and many of us stans were in full doom and gloom mode. In retrospect, all of it was silly.

You know why man. It all circles back to 2011. Well forever have PTSD from it and the haters will always think he's only one meltdown away. No one's come to grips with the fact that he's a completely different person now and that you may as well completely erase that series from the memory books when trying to forecast current Lebron.

Zach Lowe always talks about how Jordan just felt inevitable. Like you never entertained the idea of him losing. LeBron kinda lost that luster for good 10 years ago, but I'm kinda glad because the uncertainty is what makes the victories that much sweeter.

I guess it's sub-consciously etched in our brains. For me, it was less about Lebron folding under the pressure and more about anticipating a catastrophic performance from his support players. Like, I was prepared for a game where Green, KCP, Kieff, Caruso, and Kuz completely **** the bed and shoot under 30% from three.

Lebron just has absolutely terrible luck. If things can go wrong they normally do. I was mentally preparing myself for another wasted all-time performance.

[kayess]

Not to gloat but I deserve some credit for being one of the cooler heads when a bunch of y'all were overreacting after every loss or a bad game.

Anyway, 4MVPs and 4 titles. Gonna be a good night to browse reddit and GB

I'm right there with ya Paulie. Some of us have to remain calm in the middle of the Homer38 and nzahir's storms of the world

Man, those 48 hours of hysteria after game 5 were something else. Not even gonna lie, I could barely sleep after that game . The thought of Lebron blowing a 3-1 lead kept hitting me like a ton of bricks.

There's something about Lebron that triggers the biggest overreactions. The haters were out in full force and many of us stans were in full doom and gloom mode. In retrospect, all of it was silly.

I haven't backread anything but does anyone have any highlights from the meltdown in this thread lmao

[PistolPeteJR]

I haven't gotten a chance to post my reaction to LeBron winning #4 yet due to a very busy weekend (Thanksgiving up here in Canada), so here goes:

While my first basketball love was Tracy McGrady, LeBron's been my fav since close to the beginning of his career. I've rooted for him none stop and I believe I can truly say that I haven't been the type of fan that gets biased with him and makes excuses right, left and centre when it comes to shortcomings (eg. 2011). I'm also a Raptors fan, being born and raised in Toronto. So when 2016-2018 showdowns happened, I can gladly say that I thoroughly enjoyed the series despite the fact that Toronto lost every single time because every single year, I told my friends (some of whom don't speak to me anymore because of their immaturity when it comes to fandom) that the Raptors didn't stand a chance. And yes, many of those friends were the same ones rooting against him since The Decision.

The guy made that mistake, fessed up about it, and made things right. The guy made commitments he didn't need to make (eg. promise to win a ring for Cleveland) and did it against all odds.

I was telling my girlfriend the other day that it's been such a wild ride following, watching, and loving every moment of this guy's career, both the ups and the downs.

I can't bother getting caught up in the never-ending GOAT discussions because of the incredible amount of variables that are uncontrollable in debates, such as bias, eras, variable weights attributed to evaluated criteria, etc. All I know is that he's up there.

As his career continues, I'll continue enjoying and relishing every moment, sharing in the excitement and reflecting on the nostalgia of the past, both now and after he's retired.

After all, he's my GOAT.

[KTM_2813]

I'm right there with ya Paulie. Some of us have to remain calm in the middle of the Homer38 and nzahir's storms of the world

Man, those 48 hours of hysteria after game 5 were something else. Not even gonna lie, I could barely sleep after that game . The thought of Lebron blowing a 3-1 lead kept hitting me like a ton of bricks.

There's something about Lebron that triggers the biggest overreactions. The haters were out in full force and many of us stans were in full doom and gloom mode. In retrospect, all of it was silly.

I haven't backread anything but does anyone have any highlights from the meltdown in this thread lmao

It wasn't in this thread, but in another big thread there was a guy who said that Game 5 was evidence of LeBron making his teammates less effective because Green missed such a wide open three. Of course the Lakers end up demolishing the Heat in Game 6 and setting a franchise record for three-pointers made in a series.

[wutevahung]

Where would this year's LeBron rank among his own career? To me, in play off, he actually looks as good as ever, especially during Finals, but it could be winning and recency bias. I just checked the advanced stats on basketball reference, besides PER, most of the stats are down from his peak.

[PistolPeteJR]

Really wasn't sure where to post this, so I'll just leave it here. Frankly, it's disgusting.

[dreamshake]

Read on Twitter

Just want to give this a big and-1. As much as we like to just assume LeBron is an absolute genetic freak, you gotta give this man some serious credit for keeping Bron ready and available year in and year out. Whatever he's getting paid, he's more than earned it.

[Homer38]

Where would this year's LeBron rank among his own career? To me, in play off, he actually looks as good as ever, especially during Finals, but it could be winning and recency bias. I just checked the advanced stats on basketball reference, besides PER, most of the stats are down from his peak.

I don't know if 2020 is in his top 5 which is crazy!

I think 2009,2012,2013,2016-2018 he was better but mentally and his confidence he was at his best, so he can have an argument over some of his seasons!

[Doctor MJ]

I'm right there with ya Paulie. Some of us have to remain calm in the middle of the Homer38 and nzahir's storms of the world

Man, those 48 hours of hysteria after game 5 were something else. Not even gonna lie, I could barely sleep after that game . The thought of Lebron blowing a 3-1 lead kept hitting me like a ton of bricks.

There's something about Lebron that triggers the biggest overreactions. The haters were out in full force and many of us stans were in full doom and gloom mode. In retrospect, all of it was silly.

You know why man. It all circles back to 2011. Well forever have PTSD from it and the haters will always think he's only one meltdown away. No one's come to grips with the fact that he's a completely different person now and that you may as well completely erase that series from the memory books when trying to forecast current Lebron.

Zach Lowe always talks about how Jordan just felt inevitable. Like you never entertained the idea of him losing. LeBron kinda lost that luster for good 10 years ago, but I'm kinda glad because the uncertainty is what makes the victories that much sweeter.

Beyond that, essentially people gravitate toward Jordan because they want to believe in perfection.

Something I appreciate about LeBron's run - doesn't make it "better", just appreciate it - is that everyone has to grapple with the stumbles he had because it happened on the grand stage.

LeBron's perceived "dominance" is what dominance actually is. There are chinks in the armor, because they always are.

When we talk about Jordan's "dominance", we're supposed to talk about Jordan's 60 point game against the Celtics without talking about the fact that his team got swept, we're supposed to talk about the Dream Team without pointing out that everyone on the team was hyper-efficient except for Jordan who was shooting more than he should have because he wanted to be "The Man" while everyone else was there for the team, we're supposed to talk about his baseball years as if he have won the NBA championship had he simply been playing, we're supposed to talk about the Last Dance as if Jordan was going to win titles forever if only Krause wasn't a villain, and we're supposed to pretend Jordan's time in Washington just never happened.

People don't want Jordan's incredible success put into context so we can understand his limitations were and why he was dramatically more successful at sometimes compared to others. They want a hero, and Jordan wants to be that hero, so the spin continues.

None of this means LeBron > Jordan, but the people who side with Jordan because of this false notion of perfection are a real problem. The Jordan narrative literally makes people, including the players who grew up in his shadow, dumber about basketball.

[Ainosterhaspie]

His defensive resurgence this playoffs bolsters my view that his waning defensive effectiveness in 2017, 18 was primarily a conscious decision on his part not to expend effort in a largely futile endeavor. Those teams weren't going to have quality defense no matter what he did. Just did not have rim protection or wing quality to be effective. Good offenses could simply work around him and exploit the other weaker defenders.

He gets criticized, but it was probably the right decision. Invest where the payoff is biggest rather than throwing away resources where there's no return. Once he had solid and elite defensive talent to work with, he ramped up his effort and effectiveness again.

[dreamshake]

Really wasn't sure where to post this, so I'll just leave it here. Frankly, it's disgusting.

And yet historically the Lakers odds of making the Finals pale in comparison to LeBron's odds

[Doctor MJ]

Really wasn't sure where to post this, so I'll just leave it here. Frankly, it's disgusting.

The chart is wrong. The Lakers won the NBL title in '47-48 too and were drastically superior to the trash that was in the BAA at the time.

So yeah, it's even worse than the chart makes it out to be.

[Doctor MJ]

His defensive resurgence this playoffs bolsters my view that his waming defensive effectiveness in 2017, 18 was primarily a conscious decision on his part not to expend effort in a largely futile endeavor. Those teams weren't going to have quality defense no matter what he did. Just did not have rim protection or wing quality to be effective. Good offenses could simply work around him and exploit the other weaker defenders.

He gets criticized, but it was probably the right decision. Invest where the payoff is biggest rather than throwing away resources where there's no return. Once he had solid and elite defensive talent to work with, he ramped up his effort and effectiveness again.

Well there's truth in this, but I think the most noteworthy thing about LeBron's defense this year is the way he set the tone for defensive focus at the start of the season. That's not something he did the past half decade and it had its consequences.

The question during the last Cleveland stint is mostly about whether Kyrie made that impossible. There's no debate though:

LeBron chose to blow off defense in both '17-18 and '18-19 on rosters full of guys who'd have worked hard if LeBron had worked hard.

Not saying that was a mistake, but it's the truth.

[Heej]

Read on Twitter

Just want to give this a big and-1. As much as we like to just assume LeBron is an absolute genetic freak, you gotta give this man some serious credit for keeping Bron ready and available year in and year out. Whatever he's getting paid, he's more than earned it.

Hey Tim Grover, stick that in your pipe and smoke it! Big ups to our guy Mike!! Let's goooo