2020 Presidential Election Thread: The Homestretch

[Fat Kat]

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[Clyde_Style]

Read on Twitter

Go to the tweet, click on the image and scroll through it to real the full quote. Chomsky is saying exactly what I was saying after Biden took a dominant lead in the primaries, but if you look at the Twitter comments it is still chock full of leftist snowflakes.

What Chomsky's getting at is s prevailing belief on the left. It was a majority opinion in 2016 (polling data shows this with Bernie to Clinton voters vs Bernie to Trump voters fitting in the norms of typical elections) and I think it's become even more prevalent post Trump. Chomsky pretty much spells it out here, vote lesser of two evils but give either side hell while they have power and changes are still necessary.

https://the.ink/p/noam-chomsky-wants-you-to-vote-for

That's the full piece with a lot of other gems and thoughtfulness. I think it's good to show the breadth of thought and nuance that takes place in lefty discourse beyond the ridiculously massive game of telephone that social media politics plays. The caricatures that most people see portrayed and magnified are more a product of the easiest ways to build up click counts than they are of anything else.

Yes, it is what I said to everyone here to stop wasting time lamenting Biden's leapfrog ahead of Bernie and to instead push the DNC hard. Which is what happenened at the higher levels as Bernie and Warren used their leverage to push the platform left. They get it. You get it. Now Wingo gets it. But geezus it was a pain in the butt to get the message across so it is good to see an eminence grise like Chomsky dropping that knowledge because I believe it is a really important lesson.

Also within his message is the basic truth that being an activist is an activity, not a moment. If you really want to do political change you don't stop when a benchmark is or isn't reached. You just keep going because that's who you are and it is what you do. I think you've signed up for that so you know you'll be doing this for years to come and it doesn't begin and end with whom you vote for each time.

Sometimes circumstances require you to do politics with the mainstream in order to advance your cause. Surely, this election is the greatest example of this during our lifetimes. There was too much insulting of pragmatism going on earlier, but I know what's at stake and I took plenty of crap for it, but who can really be in the game of change for the long haul and still look me in the eye and say I was wrong? You cannot let the fascists consolidate power. I think everybody who has any sense got the message finally, but it was a real pain in the butt.

There are still whiners and lefty snowflakes who complain about every damn thing, but I think that's the era we live in. At a certain point IDGAF about all that as long as the major objective of averting total disaster is achieved. I still think the American body politic is pretty much depleted of the proper marriage of long-term vision and pragmatism, so if you can stick it out and rally the left fringes to work in harmony then all the power to you. I'm not up to that task. I'm older and I don't think I want to play in this sandbox much longer. Just get me through the next few months and the baton is yours man.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

She’s great at giving non answers to questions which is weird for a potential judge no? I think it’s telling that she didn’t answer whether President Trump can change an election or recuse herself from an election case. She could take a dump in the middle of the Senate floor and she’d still get confirmed 53-47. It doesn’t matter, but she’s continuing to play the part for dear leader Trump.

[DOT]

Have they asked her if she likes beer?

I'm told talking about how much you like beer while crying about how mean the Democrats are is a good way to get in to the Supreme Court.

[Clyde_Style]

Have they asked her if she likes beer?

I'm told talking about how much you like beer while crying about how mean the Democrats are is a good way to get in to the Supreme Court.

I recommend hacking Wingo's desktop cam to get some great footage of drinking and crying

[Zeitgeister]

Read on Twitter

Go to the tweet, click on the image and scroll through it to real the full quote. Chomsky is saying exactly what I was saying after Biden took a dominant lead in the primaries, but if you look at the Twitter comments it is still chock full of leftist snowflakes.

What Chomsky's getting at is s prevailing belief on the left. It was a majority opinion in 2016 (polling data shows this with Bernie to Clinton voters vs Bernie to Trump voters fitting in the norms of typical elections) and I think it's become even more prevalent post Trump. Chomsky pretty much spells it out here, vote lesser of two evils but give either side hell while they have power and changes are still necessary.

https://the.ink/p/noam-chomsky-wants-you-to-vote-for

That's the full piece with a lot of other gems and thoughtfulness. I think it's good to show the breadth of thought and nuance that takes place in lefty discourse beyond the ridiculously massive game of telephone that social media politics plays. The caricatures that most people see portrayed and magnified are more a product of the easiest ways to build up click counts than they are of anything else.

Yes, it is what I said to everyone here to stop wasting time lamenting Biden's leapfrog ahead of Bernie and to instead push the DNC hard. Which is what happenened at the higher levels as Bernie and Warren used their leverage to push the platform left. They get it. You get it. Now Wingo gets it. But geezus it was a pain in the butt to get the message across so it is good to see an eminence grise like Chomsky dropping that knowledge because I believe it is a really important lesson.

Also within his message is the basic truth that being an activist is an activity, not a moment. If you really want to do political change you don't stop when a benchmark is or isn't reached. You just keep going because that's who you are and it is what you do. I think you've signed up for that so you know you'll be doing this for years to come and it doesn't begin and end with whom you vote for each time.

Sometimes circumstances require you to do politics with the mainstream in order to advance your cause. Surely, this election is the greatest example of this during our lifetimes. There was too much insulting of pragmatism going on earlier, but I know what's at stake and I took plenty of crap for it, but who can really be in the game of change for the long haul and still look me in the eye and say I was wrong? You cannot let the fascists consolidate power. I think everybody who has any sense got the message finally, but it was a real pain in the butt.

There are still whiners and lefty snowflakes who complain about every damn thing, but I think that's the era we live in. At a certain point IDGAF about all that as long as the major objective of averting total disaster is achieved. I still think the American body politic is pretty much depleted of the proper marriage of long-term vision and pragmatism, so if you can stick it out and rally the left fringes to work in harmony then all the power to you. I'm not up to that task. I'm older and I don't think I want to play in this sandbox much longer. Just get me through the next few months and the baton is yours man.

I've always said that in swing states you should vote for the Democratic candidate, and I'm a leftist. I'm not 100% convinced either way what the actual best strategy is though. Activism can do some things but just look at the recent BLM protests, largest protests in American history and we have Biden on record talking about giving police more funding or going for the leg when they shoot someone. Activism/direct action is highly important and an important tool in our tool box but perhaps leveraging our vote should matter too. There is no left wing party in the United States, so people like me don't actually have representation.

I do think Trump is a unique threat with his blatant fascism, but at the same time I can't definitively say he's worse than Bush or Reagan for that matter. Reagan is responsible for all of this, the deregulation that has devastated workers and something the Democrats have latched onto since Clinton. Bush is responsible for a conservative several hundred thousand deaths and completely destabilizing a region.

I will say though, I'm not sure how much abstaining from voting would convince Democrats to change something, I think they'd generally be fine with most Republican candidates in power as long as they hold some positions of power and someone that is not threatening to destabilize and upset the status quo.

[Fat Kat]

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[K_ick_God]

Watch on YouTube

[HarthorneWingo]

She's a woman who's about to reach the top of her career while having a family with 7 children. She's destroying all the stereotypes and prejudices. I don't see what the issue is.

because when you look past the identity politics to the issues she's going to bring us to a theocratic nightmare

I have not researched her, but do we have any indication that she has used her personal beliefs to influence her judgements? Her opening statement was very big on being someone who interprets the letter of the law as an originalist not someone who should use their beliefs.

They all say that. I haven’t read her legal opinions. Trump just appointed her to her Court of Appeals position earlier in his term so there’s not a lot of product to review.

[HarthorneWingo]

Read on Twitter

Plus, she lied to the Senate at her first confirmation hearing.

[HarthorneWingo]

I thought McConnell and McGrath already squared off? I guess not.

Watch on YouTube

[Clyde_Style]

What Chomsky's getting at is s prevailing belief on the left. It was a majority opinion in 2016 (polling data shows this with Bernie to Clinton voters vs Bernie to Trump voters fitting in the norms of typical elections) and I think it's become even more prevalent post Trump. Chomsky pretty much spells it out here, vote lesser of two evils but give either side hell while they have power and changes are still necessary.

https://the.ink/p/noam-chomsky-wants-you-to-vote-for

That's the full piece with a lot of other gems and thoughtfulness. I think it's good to show the breadth of thought and nuance that takes place in lefty discourse beyond the ridiculously massive game of telephone that social media politics plays. The caricatures that most people see portrayed and magnified are more a product of the easiest ways to build up click counts than they are of anything else.

Yes, it is what I said to everyone here to stop wasting time lamenting Biden's leapfrog ahead of Bernie and to instead push the DNC hard. Which is what happenened at the higher levels as Bernie and Warren used their leverage to push the platform left. They get it. You get it. Now Wingo gets it. But geezus it was a pain in the butt to get the message across so it is good to see an eminence grise like Chomsky dropping that knowledge because I believe it is a really important lesson.

Also within his message is the basic truth that being an activist is an activity, not a moment. If you really want to do political change you don't stop when a benchmark is or isn't reached. You just keep going because that's who you are and it is what you do. I think you've signed up for that so you know you'll be doing this for years to come and it doesn't begin and end with whom you vote for each time.

Sometimes circumstances require you to do politics with the mainstream in order to advance your cause. Surely, this election is the greatest example of this during our lifetimes. There was too much insulting of pragmatism going on earlier, but I know what's at stake and I took plenty of crap for it, but who can really be in the game of change for the long haul and still look me in the eye and say I was wrong? You cannot let the fascists consolidate power. I think everybody who has any sense got the message finally, but it was a real pain in the butt.

There are still whiners and lefty snowflakes who complain about every damn thing, but I think that's the era we live in. At a certain point IDGAF about all that as long as the major objective of averting total disaster is achieved. I still think the American body politic is pretty much depleted of the proper marriage of long-term vision and pragmatism, so if you can stick it out and rally the left fringes to work in harmony then all the power to you. I'm not up to that task. I'm older and I don't think I want to play in this sandbox much longer. Just get me through the next few months and the baton is yours man.

I've always said that in swing states you should vote for the Democratic candidate, and I'm a leftist. I'm not 100% convinced either way what the actual best strategy is though. Activism can do some things but just look at the recent BLM protests, largest protests in American history and we have Biden on record talking about giving police more funding or going for the leg when they shoot someone. Activism/direct action is highly important and an important tool in our tool box but perhaps leveraging our vote should matter too. There is no left wing party in the United States, so people like me don't actually have representation.

I do think Trump is a unique threat with his blatant fascism, but at the same time I can't definitively say he's worse than Bush or Reagan for that matter. Reagan is responsible for all of this, the deregulation that has devastated workers and something the Democrats have latched onto since Clinton. Bush is responsible for a conservative several hundred thousand deaths and completely destabilizing a region.

I will say though, I'm not sure how much abstaining from voting would convince Democrats to change something, I think they'd generally be fine with most Republican candidates in power as long as they hold some positions of power and someone that is not threatening to destabilize and upset the status quo.

Thanks for the reply

Yes, Trump is the culmination of a trajectory since Reagan, but he does represent a divergence from norms due to his severe pathologies. Bush Jr. was not that smart himself, but the pathologies of late capitalism mutated with Trump into a different organism in a truly Sci-Fi Horror sense.

Going back to normal does not mean you have to be copasetic with all of the faults of the American political order prior to Trumpism. Restoring normality means a return to factuality, actual justice for the criminals running this grift and agreeing on the principles that will allow this country to function with common cause across political boundaries instead of lapsing into civil war.

This is a civil war. It is cultural first, then it goes militant, then it becomes violent. Normalcy means rebooting and finding a way to move forward where that is neither accepted nor allowed without any need to trample of basic freedoms. There may be eggregious acts committed by every government, but the society needs to find some agreement on how to deal with their differences with some decency. Nazism doesn't allow for that so you do need to stand up and oppose it vocally, but after you vanquish the fascists from elected office you do need to find something we can all agree on that is normal even if the political leadership doesn't embody that themselves.

Voting Democrat until there is a true alternative means you can build coalitions which are exercises in decency by the very act of setting aside some differences to achieve the better result as a whole. All it will take is one massive surge in the future to elect the leader who has the mandate to make all federal campaigns publicly financed and to eliminate lobbyist influence. That's revolutionary and you'll never get that by shrugging and saying it doesn't really matter who is in power. Who's in power has become a matter of life and death.

[Clyde_Style]

Watch on YouTube

I see you finally got your Fischer-Price My First Screen Capture toy working

[Oscirus]

https://www.rollcall.com/2019/05/08/trumps-federal-judge-pace-matches-recent-presidents-but-with-a-big-twist/

  

So no, that wasn't a factor. Nice try though made me look.

According to your own article.

Senate Republicans chose to slow-roll Obama’s nominees, prompting then-Majority Leader Harry Reid in 2013 and his fellow Democrats to get rid of the supermajority requirement for limiting debate on most picks, including most federal judges. That led to a flurry of confirmations by the Democratic Senate in those first two years of Obama’s second term.

Things changed after the 2014 elections, when Republicans won back the chamber and virtually halted processing Obama’s court nominees. At the end of Obama’s term, in 2017, there were 17 circuit court vacancies, with seven nominees pending, and 86 district court vacancies, with 44 nominees pending.

Thanks for proving my point.

That's the articles opinion but it doesn't provide any evidence of it. What evidence do you have they slow rolled him any more than Bush was slow rolled?

second paragraph provides actual numbers, care to explain those away?

[j4remi]

Yes, it is what I said to everyone here to stop wasting time lamenting Biden's leapfrog ahead of Bernie and to instead push the DNC hard. Which is what happenened at the higher levels as Bernie and Warren used their leverage to push the platform left. They get it. You get it. Now Wingo gets it. But geezus it was a pain in the butt to get the message across so it is good to see an eminence grise like Chomsky dropping that knowledge because I believe it is a really important lesson.

Also within his message is the basic truth that being an activist is an activity, not a moment. If you really want to do political change you don't stop when a benchmark is or isn't reached. You just keep going because that's who you are and it is what you do. I think you've signed up for that so you know you'll be doing this for years to come and it doesn't begin and end with whom you vote for each time.

Sometimes circumstances require you to do politics with the mainstream in order to advance your cause. Surely, this election is the greatest example of this during our lifetimes. There was too much insulting of pragmatism going on earlier, but I know what's at stake and I took plenty of crap for it, but who can really be in the game of change for the long haul and still look me in the eye and say I was wrong? You cannot let the fascists consolidate power. I think everybody who has any sense got the message finally, but it was a real pain in the butt.

There are still whiners and lefty snowflakes who complain about every damn thing, but I think that's the era we live in. At a certain point IDGAF about all that as long as the major objective of averting total disaster is achieved. I still think the American body politic is pretty much depleted of the proper marriage of long-term vision and pragmatism, so if you can stick it out and rally the left fringes to work in harmony then all the power to you. I'm not up to that task. I'm older and I don't think I want to play in this sandbox much longer. Just get me through the next few months and the baton is yours man.

The thing about appealing to lefties is that you do better being critical about Biden than you do only calling out exaggerations in the critique while avoiding the material concerns. I think fear of complacency from center-left and centrist voters sets it in for people who witnessed OWS or the first round of BLM protests or Standing Rock. That treatment was never acceptable and it jaded a lot of people (Greenwald and Taibbi stand out most to me, both still do outstanding work a lot of the time but their views have some clear frames you need to be aware of). For those people, all the hyperbole about Trump in the world can come across phony if they believe you'll look the other way as long as Biden's the one leading instead. I'm not saying that's what you or anyone will do; but that's the concern.

Chomsky frames his appeal from a systemic change mindset. It's not pragmatic language versus radical. It's strategic language toward a long term goal. That's a pretty important difference. "After Biden wins, I'll still march with you because our work isn't done" has a hell of a lot more of an appeal than "stop whining, this is the best you're gonna get."

[J9Starks3]

Read on Twitter

Yikes...not a good look, thanks for pulling this one up. I couldnt find too much as everything on google seemed to be a copy of the same article. I did find more details finally on the actual case. The person here had gone through prior poor performance reviews and the process of termination was already underway. At that point he got into a heated exchange with his supervisor (also a Black man) at which point he was called the N word.

So it is a bit of a mischaracterization to say she said using the N word doesn’t create a hostile work environment. What she wrote/said was that this did not change the nature of his employment because he was already in the process of being terminated.

That said, my personal take is that while you are still employed you have the right to not be called a racial slur...

I couldnt get all the details so I also don’t know if this hostile exchange was 1 - proved to be factual or 2 - was /was not instigated by the worker and begun... which both obviously matter, because if it either did not happen or if an employee initiates a hostile situation because they a re being terminated then I am not sure being met with hostility is not something you should expect. As an example, I know someone who was terminated and punched their manager, at which point the person was tackled to the ground and restrained... not to equate being tackled with being called the N word, but if the employee instigated a heated exchange in which he called his, also, black manager the N word and was then called it in return...would that change the nature of the situation?

Either way, lots of if’s in there...as it stands with what I was able to find... 1 - the statement was that being called the N word didnt change the nature of their employment as they were already getting fired and 2 - I personally still dont agree with it....

[K_ick_God]

Barrett seems robotic. I don't trust her to do anything but vote far right. But you know what, if Dems get back the Senate, they can repass Obamacare. It can become a ping pong ball.

[GONYK]

Read on Twitter

[K_ick_God]

Read on Twitter

His strategy has boiled down to groveling. Okay.

[Clyde_Style]

Yes, it is what I said to everyone here to stop wasting time lamenting Biden's leapfrog ahead of Bernie and to instead push the DNC hard. Which is what happenened at the higher levels as Bernie and Warren used their leverage to push the platform left. They get it. You get it. Now Wingo gets it. But geezus it was a pain in the butt to get the message across so it is good to see an eminence grise like Chomsky dropping that knowledge because I believe it is a really important lesson.

Also within his message is the basic truth that being an activist is an activity, not a moment. If you really want to do political change you don't stop when a benchmark is or isn't reached. You just keep going because that's who you are and it is what you do. I think you've signed up for that so you know you'll be doing this for years to come and it doesn't begin and end with whom you vote for each time.

Sometimes circumstances require you to do politics with the mainstream in order to advance your cause. Surely, this election is the greatest example of this during our lifetimes. There was too much insulting of pragmatism going on earlier, but I know what's at stake and I took plenty of crap for it, but who can really be in the game of change for the long haul and still look me in the eye and say I was wrong? You cannot let the fascists consolidate power. I think everybody who has any sense got the message finally, but it was a real pain in the butt.

There are still whiners and lefty snowflakes who complain about every damn thing, but I think that's the era we live in. At a certain point IDGAF about all that as long as the major objective of averting total disaster is achieved. I still think the American body politic is pretty much depleted of the proper marriage of long-term vision and pragmatism, so if you can stick it out and rally the left fringes to work in harmony then all the power to you. I'm not up to that task. I'm older and I don't think I want to play in this sandbox much longer. Just get me through the next few months and the baton is yours man.

The thing about appealing to lefties is that you do better being critical about Biden than you do only calling out exaggerations in the critique while avoiding the material concerns. I think fear of complacency from center-left and centrist voters sets it in for people who witnessed OWS or the first round of BLM protests or Standing Rock. That treatment was never acceptable and it jaded a lot of people (Greenwald and Taibbi stand out most to me, both still do outstanding work a lot of the time but their views have some clear frames you need to be aware of). For those people, all the hyperbole about Trump in the world can come across phony if they believe you'll look the other way as long as Biden's the one leading instead. I'm not saying that's what you or anyone will do; but that's the concern.

Chomsky frames his appeal from a systemic change mindset. It's not pragmatic language versus radical. It's strategic language toward a long term goal. That's a pretty important difference. "After Biden wins, I'll still march with you because our work isn't done" has a hell of a lot more of an appeal than "stop whining, this is the best you're gonna get."

That's why I cede that leadership to you. It is not my strength. I'm highly unpolitical as a personality.

It is fair to say I have said at times to quit bellyaching when I could have attempted to be more diplomatic, but strategic language versus blunt pragmatism is still divided more by semantics than by actual meaning. On the other hand, I also settled for blunt pragmatism AFTER stating the strategic POV and getting nothing but grief, so everybody should be able to bear some of the critique.

I get impatient over something so obvious as needing a unified front to defeat fascists and that's my trait, not strategy. I understand how it may rub some people the wrong way, but I honestly cannot say I feel that sorry about trampling on political correctness when facing cultural and even eventual physical annihilation.

Sometimes jremi it actually is appropriate to tell people to get their heads out of their asses. It is up to more deliberate souls like yourself to become the leadership I never could offer. I'm an essayist, artist and agitator, not a healer. The next phase of American civilization will need some quality healers and leaders to keep things going.

TBH, I consider the majority of Twitter type critiques of Biden to be largely performative in nature. I think Greenwald and Taibbi ended up compromising themselves more than their critiques exposed hypocrisy. You already have heard me about Greenwald, but Taibbi is actually disappointing to me with his upside down iteration of deep state logic with his efforts to debunk Russia's affiliations with Trump. I think that saddened me just because I relished his earlier borderline Hunter Thompsonesque writing style ("the vampire squid" is classic). At this point, I wouldn't trust either guy as far as you could throw them.

Bothsideisms doesn't interest me at all. I think it is boring. I don't need to tear apart Biden. I'm voting for him. I need him to win. I don't have any blinders on. I know fat cats fund the Democrats too and the odds of getting the lobbyists out of DC are slim to none. It is so freaking obvious to me that it is a huge mountain to climb to turn the USA into a majority left of center country that I can't even waste a moment on moaning about the corrupt Democrats.

Put up candidates I can vote for and I'll vote for them. To me it is that simple. But since I'm not a dedicated political activist I get what I'm given and that's just life. I don't want to spend much time on politics after this election, but I deeply respect those who will, especially those who run for office. I think politics can be a honorable vocation and that largely depends on that person, not the system.

So if leftists want to wage that battle for the next 20 years and win, then I'll support them in their efforts as a citizen, not as a soldier in arms. All I want to see is people talking policy and making plans on how to get it done, not this constant bitchfest about the inadequacies of the old white men. I know they suck, but I don't need to butter up leftists by indulging their rants about it, especially when this election is for all the marbles. It doesn't matter if I agree with someone or not, I just don't want to hear them whining all the time. Be constructive or shut up is my basic disposition. Not sure I can do much to change that now.

To me, relentlessly headhunting Biden, particularly when you're still voting for him, is not really honesty, it's more about the vanity of displaying virtue to your fellow leftists. The right thing to do is to put pressure on Biden through collective action and shows of unity for the right causes, not excessively ripping him to pieces beyond reasonable critiques. Opposing Trump does not require the constant counterbalance of deconstructing Biden or the establishment. Opposing Trump is opposing Trump, period.

Biden is between us and Trump, so Tag, He's IT. We need him to do well for all of our sake's, not just in victory, but in his administration. Pre-ordaining his failure as a president is not the kind of leftism I give a damn about. If he turns out to be a snake, then he's a snake, but if the left treats him only like a snake now then whatever is good about him could be squandered.