2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch - Revised Poll

[AtheJ415]

I'd love to get Malachi Flynn later in this draft. I think the odds of him staying in the NBA are higher than Mannion for instance. Flynn was a top 5 player in the country last year. I love his creation. He's not somebody I've mentioned much because I don't see or think we should take him over guys available at 10, but he'll go later than he should in this draft.

[Saberestar]

Ok, here is the deal with Hayes vs Haliburton: The are both playmaking PG's with good size. Hayes is rated as high as he is based off his potential more than what he has actually shown. Haliburton is kinda the opposite, he doesnt have the high ceiling that Hayes has, but he is currently the much better player with plenty of stats to back it up. Haliburton is more low risk low reward and Hayes is high risk high reward. I hate using NBA player comparisons that ive seen others use, but i think with Hayes, if he reaches his full potential, you will end up with a taller D’Angelo Russell type PG, but as he currently sits he is more like Michael Carter Williams. Now with Haliburton i have seen the Shai Gilgeous-Alexander comparison thrown out there, but SGA had better athleticism, speed, and defense. I see Lonzo Ball as a decent comparison. Good height, solid passer/playmaker, has a weird shooting form that works well for him, and trys avoiding contact when attacking the rim. Defense is both kinda questionable for both Hayes and Haliburton, not terrible, just ok with each guy having question marks in different areas.

Stat comparison:

Spoiler:

Heres one of the better videos talking about Hayes and what he's done:

Spoiler:

[img]

Watch on YouTube

[/img]

I still think that they both will be gone by #10. I have a feeling that there will be less drafting based on position of need and more-so on BPA, and these are two of the top guys.

Yeah, I think both will be gone by #10 too, but there is a chance that Haliburton will be there. If he is there we need to draft him.

As a curiosity I have read that he is Eddie Jones's cousin. He has played/watched basketball all his life and he understands the game already as a young veteran.

[RunDogGun]

I don't see the point in trading Oubre, especially for a lateral move in Grant. Also, what happens if we make a move trading Oubre before the draft, and don't get Grant or another free agent to fill that cap space?

Honestly, the only deal i might even consider with Oubre in it outside of a superstar return, would be #2 and trade exemption for Oubre and future first rounder. I don't want to trade our #10 yet. I would hate to lose the heart of our team in Oubre, but having two top ten picks in this draft could bring us solid players to develop in this new culture.

Doubt it is possible, but it would be nice to grab one of the best guards with the #2 and Smith with #10, or Toppin at #2 and hope one of the guards fall to #10 like Vassel.

For my part, My only interest towards trading Oubre would be IF the front office either INTENDS to move him because they've reached a monetary impasse on contractual value in order for him to resign with us, Or if they've had internal discussions, And their determination is that he DOES NOT intend to resign with us? Having said that, I don't think that we necessarily need to trade Oubre.


IF we can move the 10th pick ( trade back scenario) for either the 14/26 or to Dallas for the 18/31. And then get Bane with our first pick, And a frontcourt player ( 4/5 Big) with our late first/ early 2nd. Bane would help with floor spacing for Oubres' and Bookers' penetration. And one of Paul Reed, Tyler Bey, Reggie Perry, Xavier Tillman or Daniel Oturu to bolster our frontcourt.

Then IF we release/ renounce Kaminsky/ Diallo/ Okobo/ Owens, Then we should have a combined:
8.85 million that we could put towards a veteran backup guard option. Perhaps one of Clarkson or Augustine?
Then maybe use the MLE for Holiday or for Milsap. And IF we renounce Baynes, And his cap hold comes off, That's around 10.3 million that we can add to the 8.8 million, Giving us around 19.1 million. I'd use that 19 million to sign Woods to a contract at around 33/3 Tops. With benchmark incentives for production/ improvement. Then resign Baynes at around 14-16/2 ( 2nd yr team option) or 7-8 million per.And have Saric/ Woods split time at the backup 5 depending upon the situation. Saric for the heavier centers, And Woods for the skinnier, longer, more athletic centers.

Of course, Perry or Oturu could easily cover for the heavier centers if necessary!

We can't use any exceptions if we are under the cap. So we can't create cap space and use exceptions. We either operate over the cap and use the exceptions to sign more guys or we get rid of guys and then only have the room and vet mins. Right?

[King4Day]

For the poll, if we had the #2 pick, I would have to go with Ball. He's likely be the player we need off the bench to score.
Just don't know how much development he needs. He has at least been playing with some pros over the last couple of years so his mindset should be able to handle it.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[WeekapaugGroove]

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His mock but if you put Vassell in Atlanta instead of Okoro would present a very interesting scenario for the suns because I'm not sure Okoro really seems like a Jones type of player. If it goes down like that I think you could see like any of like 8-9 guys as a possibility at 10. Patrick Williams would be my personal choice of that group but I could easily see Smith being the pick or maybe even take a swing on a guy like Maxey. Like 4-5 different PG could also be in play because I don't think there's much separation with that group.

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[Ghost of Kleine]

I don't see the point in trading Oubre, especially for a lateral move in Grant. Also, what happens if we make a move trading Oubre before the draft, and don't get Grant or another free agent to fill that cap space?

Honestly, the only deal i might even consider with Oubre in it outside of a superstar return, would be #2 and trade exemption for Oubre and future first rounder. I don't want to trade our #10 yet. I would hate to lose the heart of our team in Oubre, but having two top ten picks in this draft could bring us solid players to develop in this new culture.

Doubt it is possible, but it would be nice to grab one of the best guards with the #2 and Smith with #10, or Toppin at #2 and hope one of the guards fall to #10 like Vassel.

For my part, My only interest towards trading Oubre would be IF the front office either INTENDS to move him because they've reached a monetary impasse on contractual value in order for him to resign with us, Or if they've had internal discussions, And their determination is that he DOES NOT intend to resign with us? Having said that, I don't think that we necessarily need to trade Oubre.


IF we can move the 10th pick ( trade back scenario) for either the 14/26 or to Dallas for the 18/31. And then get Bane with our first pick, And a frontcourt player ( 4/5 Big) with our late first/ early 2nd. Bane would help with floor spacing for Oubres' and Bookers' penetration. And one of Paul Reed, Tyler Bey, Reggie Perry, Xavier Tillman or Daniel Oturu to bolster our frontcourt.

Then IF we release/ renounce Kaminsky/ Diallo/ Okobo/ Owens, Then we should have a combined:
8.85 million that we could put towards a veteran backup guard option. Perhaps one of Clarkson or Augustine?
Then maybe use the MLE for Holiday or for Milsap. And IF we renounce Baynes, And his cap hold comes off, That's around 10.3 million that we can add to the 8.8 million, Giving us around 19.1 million. I'd use that 19 million to sign Woods to a contract at around 33/3 Tops. With benchmark incentives for production/ improvement. Then resign Baynes at around 14-16/2 ( 2nd yr team option) or 7-8 million per.And have Saric/ Woods split time at the backup 5 depending upon the situation. Saric for the heavier centers, And Woods for the skinnier, longer, more athletic centers.

Of course, Perry or Oturu could easily cover for the heavier centers if necessary!

We can't use any exceptions if we are under the cap. So we can't create cap space and use exceptions. We either operate over the cap and use the exceptions to sign more guys or we get rid of guys and then only have the room and vet mins. Right?

But couldn't we still renounce or release those certain players mentioned in my previous post, And then utilize that cap space created to sign players up to the tax line, So that we could then have access to the full MLE, and other taxpayer exceptions? Also, I'm a bit hazy on the whole Baynes cap hold situation? Some sites indicate that his cap hold is around:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/cap/2020/

2020-21 Cap Holds

Cap holds represent "placeholders" for pending free agents, unsigned draft picks, offer sheets, etc... Since the Suns are currently over the league salary cap, these cap holds do not count against their Total Cap figure. Denouncing these cap holds will NOT afford the team any new cap space. These figures are not counted toward a team's Luxury Tax Allocation.

PLAYER (4)

AGE

POS.

CAP FIGURE

- Dario Saric-26
PF :$10,445,958

- Aron Baynes- 33
C: $10,361,232
- Jevon Carter- 25
PG: $1,937,273
- Tariq Owens- 25
PF: $1,549,812

But then on other sites, it doesn't even show Baynes cap hold on his contract page:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/aron-baynes-11850/
There have been so many varying reports of our cap space possibilities. Ultimately though, I think Baynes is gone. Either to a contender, Or because we've decided ( Sarver mainly) that we're going to pay him more than a certain amount, Or most likely that the front office has expressed to him that we intend to go in another direction, Once his cap hold clears! I think that's why they interviewed Daniel Oturu. Also, I think that we do go after Wood or Grant to be our starting 4/5. And move Oubre to the 3, Bridges to the 2, Booker to the 1, And Rubio to lead our bench unit. So basically, I see our potential rotations being:

Starters
- Booker/ Bridges/ Oubre/ Grant / Ayton.
( or Wood)

Bench Unit
- Rubio/ Bane/ Holiday/ Cam/ Saric.

Or If Oubre is willing ( NOT)) to accept a bench role as our 6th man option???
- Rubio/ Bane/ Cam/ Oubre/ Saric.

3rd unit
Payne/ Carter/ Bane/ Bridges/ Oturu?
Of course all rotations are switchable and fluid. And if our front office has indeed determined that Oubre is gone in 21' for whatever reason, Then Cam would get the starting role, Probably at the 3, with one of Grant or Wood starting at the 4.
Maybe Oubre not participating in the bubble had dual meanings, like after internal discussions, Sarver made it clear that the number that Oubre and his agent are expecting is something that he'll not commit to. So they mutually agreed to let Oubre sit it out so he wouldn't risk any further injury, And potentially decrease his market value. And for the suns interests, So that they could further explore Bridges and Cam as the anticipated Oubre replacement.

But again, I believe that we can ( IF Sarvers' only willing to) keep Oubre, And Draft Bane, Decline Kaminsky, Release Okobo, Diallo, And perhaps even trade Jerome for a 2nd or for a future 2nd, Then we could have around another 9-10 million to add add to whatever cap space that we might already have with releasing Baynes? That should be enough to make a generous ( yet reasonable offer to Wood, And then the room exception to Burks or Forbes, And if that gets us to the line, Then we can use the full MLE to either resign Saric to a 1+1, Or if not, Then use the taxpayer MLE to sign Holiday and maybe one smaller contract ( maybe Reggie Jackson)???

[WeekapaugGroove]

If you at anytime use cap space then the only exceptions you can use that off-season are the room MLE (about half the full MLE) and the little biannual exemption.

One way to think about this is the full MLE is automatically added to your cap and to get under the cap you need to renounce it.

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[Ghost of Kleine]

If you at anytime use cap space then the only exceptions you can use that off-season are the room MLE (about half the full MLE) and the little biannual exemption.

One way to think about this is the full MLE is automatically added to your cap and to get under the cap you need to renounce it.

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Thank you for the clarification man. I do appreciate it.
Can you possibly combine the room MLE with the Bi annual exception in order to add a larger contract offer? Or is it only accessible in separate deals under that premise?

[WeekapaugGroove]

If you at anytime use cap space then the only exceptions you can use that off-season are the room MLE (about half the full MLE) and the little biannual exemption.

One way to think about this is the full MLE is automatically added to your cap and to get under the cap you need to renounce it.

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Thank you for the clarification man. I do appreciate it.
Can you possibly combine the room MLE with the Bi annual exception in order to add a larger contract offer? Or is it only accessible in separate deals under that premise?

No unfortunately you can not combine exemptions.

Id have to check but the suns might have used the BAE last year on Dialo so that might not be available for them this fall.

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[RunDogGun]

Cap questions are good to address when discussing draft picks. I feel it might be a good situation if we are willing to spend some money. In the past, we were sellers of draft picks, could we be buyers this year? And if so, which teams might be sellers?

For example, since GSW are way over the cap, could we buy their pick for $5million with a #1 protected pick for 2021?

[bwgood77]

For the poll, if we had the #2 pick, I would have to go with Ball. He's likely be the player we need off the bench to score.
Just don't know how much development he needs. He has at least been playing with some pros over the last couple of years so his mindset should be able to handle it.

He's not a scorer. At least in an efficient way. This guy, in a lower level international league, shot uder 39% from the field and under 28% from 3. He also averaged 6.77 apg to 2.54 TO, which isn't bad, but for a league of this caliber and based on his reputation is bad. He is poor defensively as well.

I honestly don't understand the hype. Lonzo was way more hyped, and for good reason, for what he did at UCLA. It almost feels like LaMelo is more hyped right now, but Lonzo was in what, at the time, was considered a great draft, and at the top of it. and for good reason.

Lonzo shot over 55% from the field, over 41% from 3, and a 7.6 to 2.5 ast/to ratio, over 3-1, along with elite defense. This is likely against tougher competition too....aside from the PAC 12, they played Kentucky and other top teams.

What is your big appeal with him compared with guys who were elite NCAA college players? Just prayer that he has upside in all levels of scoring and becomes solid defensively with his size?

I think if his name were LaMelo Ntilikina or something he would be projected as a 2nd rounder.

Of course in Kevin O'Connor's mock, he projects them to go to the Hornets...par for the course for them based on my expectations. I do think there is a chance he becomes a good player, but he's got a LONG ways to go.

[King4Day]

For the poll, if we had the #2 pick, I would have to go with Ball. He's likely be the player we need off the bench to score.
Just don't know how much development he needs. He has at least been playing with some pros over the last couple of years so his mindset should be able to handle it.

He's not a scorer. At least in an efficient way. This guy, in a lower level international league, shot uder 39% from the field and under 28% from 3. He also averaged 6.77 apg to 2.54 TO, which isn't bad, but for a league of this caliber and based on his reputation is bad. He is poor defensively as well.

I honestly don't understand the hype. Lonzo was way more hyped, and for good reason, for what he did at UCLA. It almost feels like LaMelo is more hyped right now, but Lonzo was in what, at the time, was considered a great draft, and at the top of it. and for good reason.

Lonzo shot over 55% from the field, over 41% from 3, and a 7.6 to 2.5 ast/to ratio, over 3-1, along with elite defense. This is likely against tougher competition too....aside from the PAC 12, they played Kentucky and other top teams.

What is your big appeal with him compared with guys who were elite NCAA college players? Just prayer that he has upside in all levels of scoring and becomes solid defensively with his size?

I think if his name were LaMelo Ntilikina or something he would be projected as a 2nd rounder.

Of course in Kevin O'Connor's mock, he projects them to go to the Hornets...par for the course for them based on my expectations. I do think there is a chance he becomes a good player, but he's got a LONG ways to go.

I just feel like the top 3 will be the top 3 (Edwards, Ball, Wiseman in any order). If we moved to 2, we should try to trade back. I don't think Toppin will get picked that early.

[WeekapaugGroove]

For the poll, if we had the #2 pick, I would have to go with Ball. He's likely be the player we need off the bench to score.
Just don't know how much development he needs. He has at least been playing with some pros over the last couple of years so his mindset should be able to handle it.

He's not a scorer. At least in an efficient way. This guy, in a lower level international league, shot uder 39% from the field and under 28% from 3. He also averaged 6.77 apg to 2.54 TO, which isn't bad, but for a league of this caliber and based on his reputation is bad. He is poor defensively as well.

I honestly don't understand the hype. Lonzo was way more hyped, and for good reason, for what he did at UCLA. It almost feels like LaMelo is more hyped right now, but Lonzo was in what, at the time, was considered a great draft, and at the top of it. and for good reason.

Lonzo shot over 55% from the field, over 41% from 3, and a 7.6 to 2.5 ast/to ratio, over 3-1, along with elite defense. This is likely against tougher competition too....aside from the PAC 12, they played Kentucky and other top teams.

What is your big appeal with him compared with guys who were elite NCAA college players? Just prayer that he has upside in all levels of scoring and becomes solid defensively with his size?

I think if his name were LaMelo Ntilikina or something he would be projected as a 2nd rounder.

Of course in Kevin O'Connor's mock, he projects them to go to the Hornets...par for the course for them based on my expectations. I do think there is a chance he becomes a good player, but he's got a LONG ways to go.

It's about his feel for the game at his size, plus he's a little better athlete than his brother. But it's a huge bet that his shooting gets better and also that he can take the tools he has to be a good defender and actually be one because right now he's pretty damn terrible at both things.

He's fortunate that he's in this draft because he gets the benefit of having upside in a class that doesn't really have any super star types. A normal draft he's a late lotto guy (you could say that about 15 guys in the draft IMO)

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Cap questions are good to address when discussing draft picks. I feel it might be a good situation if we are willing to spend some money. In the past, we were sellers of draft picks, could we be buyers this year? And if so, which teams might be sellers?

For example, since GSW are way over the cap, could we buy their pick for $5million with a #1 protected pick for 2021?

There are recent reports that many teams will be looking to reduce cost by prioritizing draft and stash and two way contracts.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/259870/Teams-Expected-To-Pursue-Two-Ways-Stashes-Earlier-In-Draft-Due-To-Pandemic

As for Golden State, Even with them being over the luxury tax, Their ownership team has indicated that they're not prioritizing cap space, monetary considerations due to their outside income sources available to them, Bolstering their incoming revenue. They've strongly indicated that they'll either look to trade the pick for an impact veteran to help them return to contention, Or else they'll look to keep the pick, And add a cornerstone piece for when Curry/ Klay/ Green are in decline. I do however think that there's an outside chance that Jones considers' trading some package of Oubre/ Kaminsky/ 10th pick for Love/ Garland/ 5th pick? And then look to take one of Hayes, Haliburton, Vassell or Avdija.

Or else maybe post Love Trade, They look to trade the 5th pick to Boston for the 14/ 26/ 30 to add cheap cost controlled roster depth.

14- Bane.
26- Tyler Bey.
30- Daniel Oturu or Vernon Carey?

So our bench depth would be filled with low cost, contractually controlled players. Shooting and high IQ versatile, switchable perimeter defenders. All of which can also shoot the three. And our starting 5 ( playoff team)? Would be:

1st unit
- Rubio/ Booker/ Bridges/ Love/ Ayton.
( Rubio's connection with Love/ James Jones connection with Cleveland).

2nd unit :
- Garland/ Bane/ Bey/ Cam/ Saric.
( or Sexton) All strong, versatile scorers.

3rd unit :
- Carter/ Bane/ Bridges/ Bey/ Oturu?
( All strong defensive players).

*** The issue becomes Loves' overlapping contract of $ 28- 31 million
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/kevin-love-6132/ . But he'd be a massive expiring contract in that same summer, So perhaps Jones will have a plan to move him to a Team looking for cap space? Just a wild consideration.

[bwgood77]

For the poll, if we had the #2 pick, I would have to go with Ball. He's likely be the player we need off the bench to score.
Just don't know how much development he needs. He has at least been playing with some pros over the last couple of years so his mindset should be able to handle it.

He's not a scorer. At least in an efficient way. This guy, in a lower level international league, shot uder 39% from the field and under 28% from 3. He also averaged 6.77 apg to 2.54 TO, which isn't bad, but for a league of this caliber and based on his reputation is bad. He is poor defensively as well.

I honestly don't understand the hype. Lonzo was way more hyped, and for good reason, for what he did at UCLA. It almost feels like LaMelo is more hyped right now, but Lonzo was in what, at the time, was considered a great draft, and at the top of it. and for good reason.

Lonzo shot over 55% from the field, over 41% from 3, and a 7.6 to 2.5 ast/to ratio, over 3-1, along with elite defense. This is likely against tougher competition too....aside from the PAC 12, they played Kentucky and other top teams.

What is your big appeal with him compared with guys who were elite NCAA college players? Just prayer that he has upside in all levels of scoring and becomes solid defensively with his size?

I think if his name were LaMelo Ntilikina or something he would be projected as a 2nd rounder.

Of course in Kevin O'Connor's mock, he projects them to go to the Hornets...par for the course for them based on my expectations. I do think there is a chance he becomes a good player, but he's got a LONG ways to go.

I just feel like the top 3 will be the top 3 (Edwards, Ball, Wiseman in any order). If we moved to 2, we should try to trade back. I don't think Toppin will get picked that early.

I don't think you net that much in trade, but in this draft I think you take the guy you want and don't risk it. They could, however, agree to a trade in principle IF the guy they want is there when the other team picks, but you risk him not being there, and having to settle. Now if they had two guys they like equally, say two of Haliburton, Vassell and Toppin, then it would maybe be worth it, but I really think you don't net much with a trade back in this draft anyway.

I meant to put LaMelo's stats link in the previous post. https://basketball.realgm.com/player/LaMelo-Ball/Summary/103892

[bwgood77]

For the poll, if we had the #2 pick, I would have to go with Ball. He's likely be the player we need off the bench to score.
Just don't know how much development he needs. He has at least been playing with some pros over the last couple of years so his mindset should be able to handle it.

He's not a scorer. At least in an efficient way. This guy, in a lower level international league, shot uder 39% from the field and under 28% from 3. He also averaged 6.77 apg to 2.54 TO, which isn't bad, but for a league of this caliber and based on his reputation is bad. He is poor defensively as well.

I honestly don't understand the hype. Lonzo was way more hyped, and for good reason, for what he did at UCLA. It almost feels like LaMelo is more hyped right now, but Lonzo was in what, at the time, was considered a great draft, and at the top of it. and for good reason.

Lonzo shot over 55% from the field, over 41% from 3, and a 7.6 to 2.5 ast/to ratio, over 3-1, along with elite defense. This is likely against tougher competition too....aside from the PAC 12, they played Kentucky and other top teams.

What is your big appeal with him compared with guys who were elite NCAA college players? Just prayer that he has upside in all levels of scoring and becomes solid defensively with his size?

I think if his name were LaMelo Ntilikina or something he would be projected as a 2nd rounder.

Of course in Kevin O'Connor's mock, he projects them to go to the Hornets...par for the course for them based on my expectations. I do think there is a chance he becomes a good player, but he's got a LONG ways to go.

It's about his feel for the game at his size, plus he's a little better athlete than his brother. But it's a huge bet that his shooting gets better and also that he can take the tools he has to be a good defender and actually be one because right now he's pretty damn terrible at both things.

He's fortunate that he's in this draft because he gets the benefit of having upside in a class that doesn't really have any super star types. A normal draft he's a late lotto guy (you could say that about 15 guys in the draft IMO)

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We've gone the athlete route before and his hasn't worked out so well. He's not nearly the prospect Josh Jackson was, for example. Feel for the game and a guy who has not become a good shooter or defender in the last is not feel for the game I am interested in. Sure, his court vision might be good, but a lot of guys that became nobody's can say that. He's a worse shooter than Rubio and likely never will reach his level in defense, shooting or court vision.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/10/14/2020-nba-draft-rumors-roundup-minnesota-still-looking-to-trade-out-of-no-1/

2020 NBA Draft rumors roundup: Minnesota still looking to trade out of No. 1

By Kurt HelinOct 14, 2020, 3:10 PM EDT

The NBA Finals are in the rearview mirror — even if the Lakers are still celebrating, as they should be — and next up on the calendar is the 2020 NBA Draft, set for Nov. 18.Rumors and spin are the oil that lubricates the NBA draft engine. What has changed is those rumors have gone from being in smoke-filled back rooms to social media. There are too many rumors, too much spin to keep up with around today’s NBA.

Here is a round-up of legitimate NBA draft rumors and some of the buzz flying around the league. Take it all with a grain of salt, but here is the latest spin from around the league.

• The Minnesota Timberwolves would love to trade out of the No. 1 pick for a player who can help them win now. Team president Gersson Rosas told NBC Sports’ Tom Haberstroh he was open to it on a recent Tom Haberstroh podcast, and the buzz around the league has continued to be they want to make a move. Kevin O’Conner wrote this at The Ringer in his mock draft:  “Executives around the NBA say the Timberwolves prefer to trade down or out of this pick to bring in a win-now player to help Karl-Anthony Towns and D’Angelo Russell.”

[RunDogGun]

GofK, I keep seeing you mention Bane. From all the mock drafts, I see him way down the list. I have seen him even as a late second rounder. Have there been reports we want him? Did we ask him for an interview?

As for GSW, I was just spit balling an example of a team that would need cap relief, where we could keep our draft pick as well as grabbing another pick. For me, two higher draft picks would be nice with the group we have, where we grab a point and pf. Getting a playmaker at one spot and a rebounder/rim protector at the 4.

Also, I think GSW best move would be a sign and trade with OKC for Gallo, using their pick and the Iggy exception.