Build a Franchise Season 4- Draft starts Saturday (Detroit is on the clock until 8AM) Announcement- page 81

[2010]

I think the drama over the player profiles is ridiculous tbh...if you're using what hoffa wrote to help determine your offseason plans you're an idiot to begin with...

...the player profiles and all that - i think it's being blow up a little bit more than what it needs to be.

So for clarity purposes, you are fine with this type of thing from one GM, urging others to take on detailed strategy to weaken a specific team by targeting specific player(s):

• "Player A plays for Team 1. Team 1 only has $XXX in cap space. Team 1 also has XX amount of free agents. My fellow GMs, if you make an offer of $XXX to Player A. Considering Team 1 has XX amount of free agents and can only bid $XXX, even if they exercise their bird rights and exceed the cap by X%, which equates to $XXX, it is highly unlikely that they would be able to match your bid. Therefore, I see it unlikely that Player A returns to Team 1. And also don't forget Team 1 also has [bold font] Player B, C, D, E and F [bold font] and I will be profiling them as well next week."

You don't think the above shenanigans is unethical and poses a conflict of interest?

I'm heavily against tanking and throwing out wild line-ups that are no where near realistic to what would happen in an NBA setting though....i spoke out against BK and Mecca doing it in year 1 and i didn't even notice 2010 put d.rose in at center..i mean to me, that's not a real basketball move that any gm would make..you legit just said you were trying to manipulate the sim....i'd be more inclined to get behind a vote to stop blatant tanking and line-up manipulation.

Like 3 years ago did anyone ever think an NBA Playoff team would have Robert Covington at C?

D Rose was played at C by me during an elimination playoff game. It was an effort to win, not to tank. The objective is to win ethically. If playing an unorthodox lineup enables that, then we should have that right.

It is a slippery slope telling GMs they cannot play players at certain positions if they feel that gives them the best chance to win.

So should I have made no adjustments and just been content to get swept?

Everyone has a right to their opinion but keep in mind I will always burden you with having to make sense.

And for the record, I have never tanked at anything in my life. And never will.

Again, I am not hoffa. Intentions matter.

You are criticizing someone who altered lineups in good faith to give him the best chance to win. In good faith. Yet you are downplaying someone who posts profiles to manipulate the free agent market in bad faith.

I don't understand some of you dudes and the hills you choose to die on.

[Slicin N Dicin]

I think the drama over the player profiles is ridiculous tbh...if you're using what hoffa wrote to help determine your offseason plans you're an idiot to begin with...

...the player profiles and all that - i think it's being blow up a little bit more than what it needs to be.

So for clarity purposes, you are fine with this type of thing from one GM, urging others to take on detailed strategy to weaken a specific team by targeting specific player(s):

• "Player A plays for Team 1. Team 1 only has $XXX in cap space. Team 1 also has XX amount of free agents. My fellow GMs, if you make an offer of $XXX to Player A. Considering Team 1 has XX amount of free agents and can only bid $XXX, even if they exercise their bird rights and exceed the cap by X%, which equates to $XXX, it is highly unlikely that they would be able to match your bid. Therefore, I see it unlikely that Player A returns to Team 1. And also don't forget Team 1 also has [bold font] Player B, C, D, E and F [bold font] and I will be profiling them as well next week."

You don't think the above shenanigans is unethical and poses a conflict of interest?

I'm heavily against tanking and throwing out wild line-ups that are no where near realistic to what would happen in an NBA setting though....i spoke out against BK and Mecca doing it in year 1 and i didn't even notice 2010 put d.rose in at center..i mean to me, that's not a real basketball move that any gm would make..you legit just said you were trying to manipulate the sim....i'd be more inclined to get behind a vote to stop blatant tanking and line-up manipulation.

Like 3 years ago did anyone ever think an NBA Playoff team would have Robert Covington at C?

D Rose was played at C by me during an elimination playoff game. It was an effort to win, not to tank. The objective is to win ethically. If playing an unorthodox lineup enables that, then we should have that right.

It is a slippery slope telling GMs they cannot play players at certain positions if they feel that gives them the best chance to win.

So should I havemade no adjustments and just been content to get swept?

Everyone has a right to their opinion but keep in mind I will always burden you with having to make sense.

If he was doing it for one specific team only or targeting one specific team - then yeah, that's an issue. If he's doing it for every FA out there, or the major ones at least...and again, my free agents are on there as I have 3 top 5 FA's in their respective positions, they all had profiles written as well...I see no major harm. Then again - I use this game as fun and maybe my perspective is different since i already won a chip on here and once Boogie went down I just said **** it and tried to go a different route in my team. Others might take this more seriously and I'm not saying they shouldn't. We all have different motives for the board/BaF and what we use it for in our personal lives.

I'm active in-season, I want to win, I make moves to keep my team competitive which didn't work out last year. I also have free agents i have in mind and strategies i'm thinking of to make my team better. And some of those include keeping my bird right FA's, but to me? No, I don't the think the write-ups are as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.

Now the draft portion and free agency - calling out players who weren't drafted or saying player x is being signed for cheap, bid him up...that's some childish chit and i agree with you 100% on that.

3 Years ago we had small ball line-ups already out there IRL. I mean c'mon man, you seriously can't compare RoCo to a 6' pg in D. Rose playing C...blatant tanking (which you didn't do) and line-up manipulation (which you did) i'm heavily against that, as I think that is more of a detriment to the league than off-season player write-ups which most, if not all gm's are not taking seriously anyway. There's a lot of variables at play when it comes to Free Agency -which you outlined in terms of year 4 vs year 5 and things like that which have more impact than hoffa's offseason write-ups which i'm guessing not many are using to base their free agency plans on.

[Slicin N Dicin]

And for the record, I have never tanked at anything in my life. And never will.

Again, I am not hoffa. Intentions matter.

You are criticizing someone who altered lineups in good faith to give him the best chance to win. In good faith. Yet you are downplaying someone who posts profiles to manipulate the free agent market in bad faith.

I don't understand some of you dudes and the hills you choose to die on.

Replying to this specifically - since you added this edit after i sent in my response.

I'm criticizing you for altering your lineup to manipulate the sim, which you admitted to. That to me is the same as manipulating your lineup to tank. You're motive was to win, the tanking option is to lose - either way it's still line-up manipulation against the SIM. No one would ever play D. Rose at pg, you only did it cause it's a SIM.

I'm not dying on any facking hill bro - I just think people are getting too facking butthurt over these write-ups...at the end of the day it's a game, you shouldn't be refrained from making comments on other people's teams (cause then where does that end? oh i said Team X has chit free agents - would that alter another GM's thinking on what he's going to offer a free agent on that team??)

I don't understand some of you dudes and the energy and chit you choose to argue over...at the end of the day it's a game for fun.

[Slicin N Dicin]

And i'm not sitting here riding for Hoffa or defending him - he does troll just to troll and sometimes the chit is amusing and sometimes the responses he gets are amusing (penis headed for one)

but some things dragging on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on - when they're not that serious to begin with i think it's ridiculous and i'll call it out.

Now if this was a fantasy league or something similar with real $$ was involved, i'll admit my tune would be different

[2010]

I think the drama over the player profiles is ridiculous tbh...if you're using what hoffa wrote to help determine your offseason plans you're an idiot to begin with...

...the player profiles and all that - i think it's being blow up a little bit more than what it needs to be.

So for clarity purposes, you are fine with this type of thing from one GM, urging others to take on detailed strategy to weaken a specific team by targeting specific player(s):

• "Player A plays for Team 1. Team 1 only has $XXX in cap space. Team 1 also has XX amount of free agents. My fellow GMs, if you make an offer of $XXX to Player A. Considering Team 1 has XX amount of free agents and can only bid $XXX, even if they exercise their bird rights and exceed the cap by X%, which equates to $XXX, it is highly unlikely that they would be able to match your bid. Therefore, I see it unlikely that Player A returns to Team 1. And also don't forget Team 1 also has [bold font] Player B, C, D, E and F [bold font] and I will be profiling them as well next week."

You don't think the above shenanigans is unethical and poses a conflict of interest?

I'm heavily against tanking and throwing out wild line-ups that are no where near realistic to what would happen in an NBA setting though....i spoke out against BK and Mecca doing it in year 1 and i didn't even notice 2010 put d.rose in at center..i mean to me, that's not a real basketball move that any gm would make..you legit just said you were trying to manipulate the sim....i'd be more inclined to get behind a vote to stop blatant tanking and line-up manipulation.

Like 3 years ago did anyone ever think an NBA Playoff team would have Robert Covington at C?

D Rose was played at C by me during an elimination playoff game. It was an effort to win, not to tank. The objective is to win ethically. If playing an unorthodox lineup enables that, then we should have that right.

It is a slippery slope telling GMs they cannot play players at certain positions if they feel that gives them the best chance to win.

So should I havemade no adjustments and just been content to get swept?

Everyone has a right to their opinion but keep in mind I will always burden you with having to make sense.

If he was doing it for one specific team only or targeting one specific team - then yeah, that's an issue. If he's doing it for every FA out there, or the major ones at least...and again, my free agents are on there as I have 3 top 5 FA's in their respective positions, they all had profiles written as well...I see no major harm. Then again - I use this game as fun and maybe my perspective is different since i already won a chip on here and once Boogie went down I just said **** it and tried to go a different route in my team. Others might take this more seriously and I'm not saying they shouldn't. We all have different motives for the board/BaF and what we use it for in our personal lives.

I'm active in-season, I want to win, I make moves to keep my team competitive which didn't work out last year. I also have free agents i have in mind and strategies i'm thinking of to make my team better. And some of those include keeping my bird right FA's, but to me? No, I don't the think the write-ups are as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.

Now the draft portion and free agency - calling out players who weren't drafted or saying player x is being signed for cheap, bid him up...that's some childish chit and i agree with you 100% on that.

3 Years ago we had small ball line-ups already out there IRL. I mean c'mon man, you seriously can't compare RoCo to a 6' pg in D. Rose playing C...blatant tanking (which you didn't do) and line-up manipulation (which you did) i'm heavily against that, as I think that is more of a detriment to the league than off-season player write-ups which most, if not all gm's are not taking seriously anyway. There's a lot of variables at play when it comes to Free Agency -which you outlined in terms of year 4 vs year 5 and things like that which have more impact than hoffa's offseason write-ups which i'm guessing not many are using to base their free agency plans on.

Look man, at this point I don't know what to tell you. Let me try again.

It's public knowledge that we all have valuables in our homes. Would you want someone who has been to your house and has a keen eye, to tell someone else who has been to your house but doesn't necessarily pay mad attention to your assets, exactly where all your valuables are?

Now would you want that person with the keen eye to give the person with the non-attentive eye, a detailed plan on how to get straight to those assets and get them?

If your answer is you have no issues with that, then we're just built different and won't ever see things eye to eye.

It's just odd you have a bigger issue with me playing to win in an elimination playoff game, in good faith, than you do someone attempting to manipulate others in bad faith, in a self-serving attempt to improve their own standing.

As I told bish. Whether GMs actually pay attention to, or adopt his plan is not my primary concern. What you, the Commish, or anyone else THINKS or BELIEVES others will do, ultimately, is neither here nor there. The fact that acting in bad faith presents a plausible scenario for it to even occur is the larger issue. If no one follows through acting out on Hoffa's hopes, I'd consider it good fortune. But the right thing to do is eliminate the possibility of such unethical fuggery altogether. In the best interest of the league.

[King of Canada]

So for clarity purposes, you are fine with this type of thing from one GM, urging others to take on detailed strategy to weaken a specific team by targeting specific player(s):



You don't think the above shenanigans is unethical and poses a conflict of interest?



Like 3 years ago did anyone ever think an NBA Playoff team would have Robert Covington at C?

D Rose was played at C by me during an elimination playoff game. It was an effort to win, not to tank. The objective is to win ethically. If playing an unorthodox lineup enables that, then we should have that right.

It is a slippery slope telling GMs they cannot play players at certain positions if they feel that gives them the best chance to win.

So should I havemade no adjustments and just been content to get swept?

Everyone has a right to their opinion but keep in mind I will always burden you with having to make sense.

If he was doing it for one specific team only or targeting one specific team - then yeah, that's an issue. If he's doing it for every FA out there, or the major ones at least...and again, my free agents are on there as I have 3 top 5 FA's in their respective positions, they all had profiles written as well...I see no major harm. Then again - I use this game as fun and maybe my perspective is different since i already won a chip on here and once Boogie went down I just said **** it and tried to go a different route in my team. Others might take this more seriously and I'm not saying they shouldn't. We all have different motives for the board/BaF and what we use it for in our personal lives.

I'm active in-season, I want to win, I make moves to keep my team competitive which didn't work out last year. I also have free agents i have in mind and strategies i'm thinking of to make my team better. And some of those include keeping my bird right FA's, but to me? No, I don't the think the write-ups are as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.

Now the draft portion and free agency - calling out players who weren't drafted or saying player x is being signed for cheap, bid him up...that's some childish chit and i agree with you 100% on that.

3 Years ago we had small ball line-ups already out there IRL. I mean c'mon man, you seriously can't compare RoCo to a 6' pg in D. Rose playing C...blatant tanking (which you didn't do) and line-up manipulation (which you did) i'm heavily against that, as I think that is more of a detriment to the league than off-season player write-ups which most, if not all gm's are not taking seriously anyway. There's a lot of variables at play when it comes to Free Agency -which you outlined in terms of year 4 vs year 5 and things like that which have more impact than hoffa's offseason write-ups which i'm guessing not many are using to base their free agency plans on.

Look man, at this point I don't know what to tell you. Let me try again.

It's public knowledge that we all have valuables in our homes. Would you want someone who has been to your house and has a keen eye, to tell someone else who has been to your house but doesn't necessarily pay mad attention to your assets, exactly where all your valuables are?

Now would you want that person with the keen eye to give the person with the non-attentive eye, a detailed plan on how to get straight to those assets and get them?

If your answer is you have no issues with that, then we're just built different and won't ever see things eye to eye.

It's just odd you have a bigger issue with me playing to win in an elimination playoff game, in good faith, than you do someone attempting to manipulate others in bad faith, in a self-serving attempt to improve their own standing.

As I told bish. Whether GMs actually pay attention to, or adopt his plan is not my primary concern. What you, the Commish, or anyone else THINKS or BELIEVES others will do, ultimately, is neither here nor there. The fact that acting in bad faith presents a plausible scenario for it to even occur is the larger issue. If no one follows through acting out on Hoffa's hopes, I'd consider it good fortune. But the right thing to do is eliminate the possibility of such unethical fuggery altogether. In the best interest of the league.

The funny thing about all of this is that we're worried about people paying too much attention to our moves and/or assets/getting tipped off, but some teams are killing it without logging in for three months at a time

[Slicin N Dicin]

So for clarity purposes, you are fine with this type of thing from one GM, urging others to take on detailed strategy to weaken a specific team by targeting specific player(s):



You don't think the above shenanigans is unethical and poses a conflict of interest?



Like 3 years ago did anyone ever think an NBA Playoff team would have Robert Covington at C?

D Rose was played at C by me during an elimination playoff game. It was an effort to win, not to tank. The objective is to win ethically. If playing an unorthodox lineup enables that, then we should have that right.

It is a slippery slope telling GMs they cannot play players at certain positions if they feel that gives them the best chance to win.

So should I havemade no adjustments and just been content to get swept?

Everyone has a right to their opinion but keep in mind I will always burden you with having to make sense.

If he was doing it for one specific team only or targeting one specific team - then yeah, that's an issue. If he's doing it for every FA out there, or the major ones at least...and again, my free agents are on there as I have 3 top 5 FA's in their respective positions, they all had profiles written as well...I see no major harm. Then again - I use this game as fun and maybe my perspective is different since i already won a chip on here and once Boogie went down I just said **** it and tried to go a different route in my team. Others might take this more seriously and I'm not saying they shouldn't. We all have different motives for the board/BaF and what we use it for in our personal lives.

I'm active in-season, I want to win, I make moves to keep my team competitive which didn't work out last year. I also have free agents i have in mind and strategies i'm thinking of to make my team better. And some of those include keeping my bird right FA's, but to me? No, I don't the think the write-ups are as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.

Now the draft portion and free agency - calling out players who weren't drafted or saying player x is being signed for cheap, bid him up...that's some childish chit and i agree with you 100% on that.

3 Years ago we had small ball line-ups already out there IRL. I mean c'mon man, you seriously can't compare RoCo to a 6' pg in D. Rose playing C...blatant tanking (which you didn't do) and line-up manipulation (which you did) i'm heavily against that, as I think that is more of a detriment to the league than off-season player write-ups which most, if not all gm's are not taking seriously anyway. There's a lot of variables at play when it comes to Free Agency -which you outlined in terms of year 4 vs year 5 and things like that which have more impact than hoffa's offseason write-ups which i'm guessing not many are using to base their free agency plans on.

Look man, at this point I don't know what to tell you. Let me try again.

It's public knowledge that we all have valuables in our homes. Would you want someone who has been to your house and has a keen eye, to tell someone else who has been to your house but doesn't necessarily pay mad attention to your assets, exactly where all your valuables are?

Now would you want that person with the keen eye to give the person with the non-attentive a detailed plan on how to get straight to those assets and get them?

If your answer is you have no issues with that, then we just built different and won't ever see things eye to eye.

It's just odd you have a bigger issue with me playing to win in an elimination playoff game, in good faith, than you do someone attempting to manipulate others in bad faith, in a self-serving attempt to improve their own standing.

As I told bish. Whether GMs actually pay attention to, or adopt his plan is not my primary concern. What you, the Commish, or anyone else THINKS or BELIEVES others will do, ultimately, is neither here nor there. The fact that acting in bad faith presents a plausible scenario for it to even occur is the larger issue. If no one follows through acting out on Hoffa's hopes, I'd consider it good fortune. But the right thing to do is eliminate the possibility of such unethical fuggery altogether. In the best interest of the league.

Hold the fack up.....This is a game....this is not valuables in my home or someone coming from my livelihood.

Are you really comparing a what amounts to a fantasy basketball game with no real monetary value or no real life implications to valuables in your home??? If so bro - we are built different, cause I would never equate this to something as serious as that like wtf is that comparison my guy. This game that real to you? That serious to you? That you compare hoffa's write-ups to someone stealing valuables in your home?

I have an issue with line-up manipulation in the sim period, I was against it early on when it was tanking so if anything i'm being consistent, as that has a greater consequences on teams/standings/draft than hoffa's bullchit offseason write-ups that people shouldn't and probably aren't taking seriously. Apparently you are taking this seriously I guess since you equate his write-ups where people might get D. Rose or JJ Reddick from you to someone breaking into your house and stealing your valuables or money. D. Rose or JJ ain't winning you or anyone out here any championships.

Like gtfo outta here with that comparison bro. This is a game.

[DOT]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Slicin N Dicin]

If he was doing it for one specific team only or targeting one specific team - then yeah, that's an issue. If he's doing it for every FA out there, or the major ones at least...and again, my free agents are on there as I have 3 top 5 FA's in their respective positions, they all had profiles written as well...I see no major harm. Then again - I use this game as fun and maybe my perspective is different since i already won a chip on here and once Boogie went down I just said **** it and tried to go a different route in my team. Others might take this more seriously and I'm not saying they shouldn't. We all have different motives for the board/BaF and what we use it for in our personal lives.

I'm active in-season, I want to win, I make moves to keep my team competitive which didn't work out last year. I also have free agents i have in mind and strategies i'm thinking of to make my team better. And some of those include keeping my bird right FA's, but to me? No, I don't the think the write-ups are as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.

Now the draft portion and free agency - calling out players who weren't drafted or saying player x is being signed for cheap, bid him up...that's some childish chit and i agree with you 100% on that.

3 Years ago we had small ball line-ups already out there IRL. I mean c'mon man, you seriously can't compare RoCo to a 6' pg in D. Rose playing C...blatant tanking (which you didn't do) and line-up manipulation (which you did) i'm heavily against that, as I think that is more of a detriment to the league than off-season player write-ups which most, if not all gm's are not taking seriously anyway. There's a lot of variables at play when it comes to Free Agency -which you outlined in terms of year 4 vs year 5 and things like that which have more impact than hoffa's offseason write-ups which i'm guessing not many are using to base their free agency plans on.

Look man, at this point I don't know what to tell you. Let me try again.

It's public knowledge that we all have valuables in our homes. Would you want someone who has been to your house and has a keen eye, to tell someone else who has been to your house but doesn't necessarily pay mad attention to your assets, exactly where all your valuables are?

Now would you want that person with the keen eye to give the person with the non-attentive eye, a detailed plan on how to get straight to those assets and get them?

If your answer is you have no issues with that, then we're just built different and won't ever see things eye to eye.

It's just odd you have a bigger issue with me playing to win in an elimination playoff game, in good faith, than you do someone attempting to manipulate others in bad faith, in a self-serving attempt to improve their own standing.

As I told bish. Whether GMs actually pay attention to, or adopt his plan is not my primary concern. What you, the Commish, or anyone else THINKS or BELIEVES others will do, ultimately, is neither here nor there. The fact that acting in bad faith presents a plausible scenario for it to even occur is the larger issue. If no one follows through acting out on Hoffa's hopes, I'd consider it good fortune. But the right thing to do is eliminate the possibility of such unethical fuggery altogether. In the best interest of the league.

The funny thing about all of this is that we're worried about people paying too much attention to our moves and/or assets/getting tipped off, but some teams are killing it without logging in for three months at a time

Lmao exactly, Philly didn't do chit all year and were on top of the east almost all season

[2010]

I think the drama over the player profiles is ridiculous tbh...if you're using what hoffa wrote to help determine your offseason plans you're an idiot to begin with...

...the player profiles and all that - i think it's being blow up a little bit more than what it needs to be.

So for clarity purposes, you are fine with this type of thing from one GM, urging others to take on detailed strategy to weaken a specific team by targeting specific player(s):

• "Player A plays for Team 1. Team 1 only has $XXX in cap space. Team 1 also has XX amount of free agents. My fellow GMs, if you make an offer of $XXX to Player A. Considering Team 1 has XX amount of free agents and can only bid $XXX, even if they exercise their bird rights and exceed the cap by X%, which equates to $XXX, it is highly unlikely that they would be able to match your bid. Therefore, I see it unlikely that Player A returns to Team 1. And also don't forget Team 1 also has [bold font] Player B, C, D, E and F [bold font] and I will be profiling them as well next week."

You don't think the above shenanigans is unethical and poses a conflict of interest?

I'm heavily against tanking and throwing out wild line-ups that are no where near realistic to what would happen in an NBA setting though....i spoke out against BK and Mecca doing it in year 1 and i didn't even notice 2010 put d.rose in at center..i mean to me, that's not a real basketball move that any gm would make..you legit just said you were trying to manipulate the sim....i'd be more inclined to get behind a vote to stop blatant tanking and line-up manipulation.

Like 3 years ago did anyone ever think an NBA Playoff team would have Robert Covington at C?

D Rose was played at C by me during an elimination playoff game. It was an effort to win, not to tank. The objective is to win ethically. If playing an unorthodox lineup enables that, then we should have that right.

It is a slippery slope telling GMs they cannot play players at certain positions if they feel that gives them the best chance to win.

So should I havemade no adjustments and just been content to get swept?

Everyone has a right to their opinion but keep in mind I will always burden you with having to make sense.

If he was doing it for one specific team only or targeting one specific team - then yeah, that's an issue. If he's doing it for every FA out there, or the major ones at least...and again, my free agents are on there as I have 3 top 5 FA's in their respective positions, they all had profiles written as well...I see no major harm. Then again - I use this game as fun and maybe my perspective is different since i already won a chip on here and once Boogie went down I just said **** it and tried to go a different route in my team. Others might take this more seriously and I'm not saying they shouldn't. We all have different motives for the board/BaF and what we use it for in our personal lives.

I'm going at the enlarged. You sound bugged out. How can you say you see no major harm when this dude has openly stated his intention is to do the exact opposite. He wants to cause harm to competitors, cap out team by making them spend more than the market would normally dictate, and use other GMs to drive up prices if he can't or is unwilling to do so himself. So again, you are downplaying the intentions he has already stated upfront.

I'm active in-season, I want to win, I make moves to keep my team competitive which didn't work out last year. I also have free agents i have in mind and strategies i'm thinking of to make my team better. And some of those include keeping my bird right FA's, but to me? No, I don't the think the write-ups are as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.

Lets keep it real. You don't think it's a big deal because your cap space is not limited. If it were, you wouldn't have as many options in your strategies. And maybe then you'd see things a bit through my lens. And stop fronting like you don't take this schit seriously and it is all fun. Cuz I remember you were ready to quit and alluding to the possibility in-season once your team was on the brink of elimination. You made a post dropping hints you may not be back. And I'm not talking about you saying you wouldn't be around in the long summer and letting us know admirably. I'm talking about at the end of the year when it was clear you wasn't likely to make the playoffs.

Now the draft portion and free agency - calling out players who weren't drafted or saying player x is being signed for cheap, bid him up...that's some childish chit and i agree with you 100% on that.

Nah, keep that same energy. If you wit the chits wit the profiles fuggery and giving teams strategy to target specific players down to full details, then don't have no problems when he on his bullchit during the free agency bidding process.

3 Years ago we had small ball line-ups already out there IRL. I mean c'mon man, you seriously can't compare RoCo to a 6' pg in D. Rose playing C

Yup, I'm seriously comparing it. Cuz if the trend continues who knows how far a future NBA coach might take it. 10 years ago most would have scoffed at RoCo at C.

...blatant tanking (which you didn't do) and line-up manipulation (which you did) i'm heavily against that, as I think that is more of a detriment to the league than off-season player write-ups which most, if not all gm's are not taking seriously anyway. There's a lot of variables at play when it comes to Free Agency -which you outlined in terms of year 4 vs year 5 and things like that which have more impact than hoffa's offseason write-ups which i'm guessing not many are using to base their free agency plans on.

If you're playing to win then there's no such thing as SIM manipulation. If you can figure out a way to gain success with your lineup that the SIM respects then there should be no shame or discrediting that.

So again, I'm asking you (this isn't a rhetorical question)... did you think I should have just not made any adjustments and been content to just stand pat, keep the status quo and get swept? That's more ridiculous than your suggestion that I take issue with hoffa's profiles.

[Capn'O]

but some teams are killing it without logging in for three months at a time

Robots >>> Humans every time

[2010]

And for the record, I have never tanked at anything in my life. And never will.

Again, I am not hoffa. Intentions matter.

You are criticizing someone who altered lineups in good faith to give him the best chance to win. In good faith. Yet you are downplaying someone who posts profiles to manipulate the free agent market in bad faith.

I don't understand some of you dudes and the hills you choose to die on.

Replying to this specifically - since you added this edit after i sent in my response.

I'm criticizing you for altering your lineup to manipulate the sim, which you admitted to. That to me is the same as manipulating your lineup to tank. You're motive was to win, the tanking option is to lose - either way it's still line-up manipulation against the SIM. No one would ever play D. Rose at pg, you only did it cause it's a SIM.

Again, there is no manipulation of the SIM when you're playing to win. The fact you're comparing trying to win to tanking is ridiculous. So if we find tendencies in the SIM that don't exist IRL should we not play to them. If that's the case, then Mecca should have sat Kenneth Faried all season and the playoffs. You sound wild.

I'm not dying on any facking hill bro - I just think people are getting too facking butthurt over these write-ups...at the end of the day it's a game

...a game you were ready to quit when you realized you wouldn't be making the playoffs.

you shouldn't be refrained from making comments on other people's teams (cause then where does that end? oh i said Team X has chit free agents - would that alter another GM's thinking on what he's going to offer a free agent on that team??)

Again, I feel like I keep having to repeat myself. This isn't a hard concept. Commentary on production, players, upcoming free agents, etc. is one thing. Consultation services and providing detailed plans of execution is another. If you can't see the conflict of interest with that, then iono what to tell you.

I don't understand some of you dudes and the energy and chit you choose to argue over...at the end of the day it's a game for fun.

If it's just for fun why you was butthurt about missing the playoffs to the point of wanting to quit then? And don't bring up your summer sabbatical. I'm talking about before that.

[Slicin N Dicin]

So for clarity purposes, you are fine with this type of thing from one GM, urging others to take on detailed strategy to weaken a specific team by targeting specific player(s):



You don't think the above shenanigans is unethical and poses a conflict of interest?



Like 3 years ago did anyone ever think an NBA Playoff team would have Robert Covington at C?

D Rose was played at C by me during an elimination playoff game. It was an effort to win, not to tank. The objective is to win ethically. If playing an unorthodox lineup enables that, then we should have that right.

It is a slippery slope telling GMs they cannot play players at certain positions if they feel that gives them the best chance to win.

So should I havemade no adjustments and just been content to get swept?

Everyone has a right to their opinion but keep in mind I will always burden you with having to make sense.

If he was doing it for one specific team only or targeting one specific team - then yeah, that's an issue. If he's doing it for every FA out there, or the major ones at least...and again, my free agents are on there as I have 3 top 5 FA's in their respective positions, they all had profiles written as well...I see no major harm. Then again - I use this game as fun and maybe my perspective is different since i already won a chip on here and once Boogie went down I just said **** it and tried to go a different route in my team. Others might take this more seriously and I'm not saying they shouldn't. We all have different motives for the board/BaF and what we use it for in our personal lives.

I'm going at the enlarged. You sound bugged out. How can you say you see no major harm when this dude has openly stated his intention is to do the exact opposite. He wants to cause harm to competitors, cap out team by making them spend more than the market would normally dictate, and use other GMs to drive up prices if he can't or is unwilling to do so himself. So again, you are downplaying the intentions he has already stated upfront.

I'm active in-season, I want to win, I make moves to keep my team competitive which didn't work out last year. I also have free agents i have in mind and strategies i'm thinking of to make my team better. And some of those include keeping my bird right FA's, but to me? No, I don't the think the write-ups are as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.

Lets keep it real. You don't think it's a big deal because your cap space is not limited. If it were, you wouldn't have as many options in your strategies. And maybe then you'd see things a bit through my lens. And stop fronting like you don't take this schit seriously and it is all fun. Cuz I remember you were ready to quit and alluding to the possibility in-season once your team was on the brink of elimination. You made a post dropping hints you may not be back. And I'm not talking about you saying you wouldn't be around in the long summer and letting us know admirably. I'm talking about at the end of the year when it was clear you wasn't likely to make the playoffs.

Now the draft portion and free agency - calling out players who weren't drafted or saying player x is being signed for cheap, bid him up...that's some childish chit and i agree with you 100% on that.

Nah, keep that same energy. If you wit the chits wit the profiles fuggery and giving teams strategy to target specific players down to full details, then don't have no problems when he on his bullchit during the free agency bidding process.

3 Years ago we had small ball line-ups already out there IRL. I mean c'mon man, you seriously can't compare RoCo to a 6' pg in D. Rose playing C

Yup, I'm seriously comparing it. Cuz if the trend continues who knows how far a future NBA coach might take it. 10 years ago most would have scoffed at RoCo at C.

...blatant tanking (which you didn't do) and line-up manipulation (which you did) i'm heavily against that, as I think that is more of a detriment to the league than off-season player write-ups which most, if not all gm's are not taking seriously anyway. There's a lot of variables at play when it comes to Free Agency -which you outlined in terms of year 4 vs year 5 and things like that which have more impact than hoffa's offseason write-ups which i'm guessing not many are using to base their free agency plans on.

If you're playing to win then there's no such thing as SIM manipulation. If you can figure out a way to gain success with your lineup that the SIM respects then there should be no shame or discrediting that.

So again, I'm asking you (this isn't a rhetorical question)... did you think I should have just not made any adjustments and been content to just stand pat, keep the status quo and get swept? That's more ridiculous than your suggestion that I take issue with hoffa's profiles.

Lmao look man you apparently take this very seriously. Calling me bugged out when you're the one coming at me since I think you're overreacting. You're bugged out my guy. Now you're saying i can't be against the FA/Draft manipulation since I don't think the write-up's are harmful? I've said clearly and many times, pretty much everyone on here is dismissing his write-ups and just reading them as off-season discussion- apparently to you this is that serious. I'm agreeing with what I think is a clear ethical violation...but now you're saying since i'm not against both i can't be against one...You're very clearly the bugged out one.

Stop crying about the line-up manipulation my guy...you did it to win...kudos, it worked....i just mentioned i'm against line-up manipulation in any way shape or form, which started with the blatant tanking..do you see me leading a crusade against you or anyone on it and saying it should be banished and taking over the thread about it? If it's not voted against, then so be it. I'm more against the tanking portion of it, which you apparently don't think matters at all since you haven't called that part out, just the portion on how you used it. Congrats, you manipulated the sim to a win..good for you. It's not tanking, but still in the same sense of line-up manipulation..it's not breaking a rule so i don't care. This guy really trying to say playing D. Rose at center isn't sim manipulation, give me some of what you're chiefing on.

I was tight in season when i thought I had a playoff caliber team with the moves I made and it didn't work out. People get tight, I was still active, still around right? What the fack does that have to do with this conversation? You got anything else you want to pull out your ass on here?

Like bro, I had no beef with you, still don't...but don't facking come at me like that. I'm not defending hoffa, I'm just saying you're crying over a facking game is all and crying over something I personally feel is not a big deal since I know this is a facking game with no IRL consequences..apparently to you hoffa is coming and stealing valuables in your home. GTFO here with that chit. Can't believe I'm writing paragraphs on this chit over something so facking trivial...is this that facking real to you.

[2010]

And i'm not sitting here riding for Hoffa or defending him - he does troll just to troll and sometimes the chit is amusing and sometimes the responses he gets are amusing (penis headed for one)

but some things dragging on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on - when they're not that serious to begin with i think it's ridiculous and i'll call it out.

Now if this was a fantasy league or something similar with real $$ was involved, i'll admit my tune would be different

That's your opinion. I've given sound rationale for mine and it has merit. But if you choose to engage and speak on it, then be prepared for it to keep dragging on and on and on and on. Cuz I'ma advocate for myself.

All you dudes was quiet when I was just in the cut minding my business not answering or taking the bait for months. But when the profiles pop and my team/players got put on front street repeatedly, damn mf right I'ma speak up and defend my stance. If anyone got a problem with that, you can choke on Hoffa's head.

[Slicin N Dicin]

And for the record, I have never tanked at anything in my life. And never will.

Again, I am not hoffa. Intentions matter.

You are criticizing someone who altered lineups in good faith to give him the best chance to win. In good faith. Yet you are downplaying someone who posts profiles to manipulate the free agent market in bad faith.

I don't understand some of you dudes and the hills you choose to die on.

Replying to this specifically - since you added this edit after i sent in my response.

I'm criticizing you for altering your lineup to manipulate the sim, which you admitted to. That to me is the same as manipulating your lineup to tank. You're motive was to win, the tanking option is to lose - either way it's still line-up manipulation against the SIM. No one would ever play D. Rose at pg, you only did it cause it's a SIM.

Again, there is no manipulation of the SIM when you're playing to win. The fact you're comparing trying to win to tanking is ridiculous. So if we find tendencies in the SIM that don't exist IRL should we not play to them. If that's the case, then Mecca should have sat Kenneth Faried all season and the playoffs. You sound wild.

I'm not dying on any facking hill bro - I just think people are getting too facking butthurt over these write-ups...at the end of the day it's a game

...a game you were ready to quit when you realized you wouldn't be making the playoffs.

you shouldn't be refrained from making comments on other people's teams (cause then where does that end? oh i said Team X has chit free agents - would that alter another GM's thinking on what he's going to offer a free agent on that team??)

Again, I feel like I keep having to repeat myself. This isn't a hard concept. Commentary on production, players, upcoming free agents, etc. is one thing. Consultation services and providing detailed plans of execution is another. If you can't see the conflict of interest with that, then iono what to tell you.

I don't understand some of you dudes and the energy and chit you choose to argue over...at the end of the day it's a game for fun.

If it's just for fun why you was butthurt about missing the playoffs to the point of wanting to quit then? And don't bring up your summer sabbatical. I'm talking about before that.

I literally just said i'm competitive and in-season when moves i made didn't work out i got tight? How far back did you go to try and dig somethign up, and keep bringing up which has nothing to do with the convo. I came back didn't I? I was active didn't I? I probably even mentioned that I was just tight my moves didn't work...like again wtf this have to do with the conversation at hand..you just reaching.

All i'm saying is you're crying over something that me and others don't think it's a big deal but to you hoffa's breaking and entering into your home to steal the equivalent of used junk (in rose and jj) you want to make it a little personal coming at me, i'll take it there if you really facking want.

Crying over this chit over and over again over off-season chit and comparing it to me tight in a competitive setting.

[2010]

If he was doing it for one specific team only or targeting one specific team - then yeah, that's an issue. If he's doing it for every FA out there, or the major ones at least...and again, my free agents are on there as I have 3 top 5 FA's in their respective positions, they all had profiles written as well...I see no major harm. Then again - I use this game as fun and maybe my perspective is different since i already won a chip on here and once Boogie went down I just said **** it and tried to go a different route in my team. Others might take this more seriously and I'm not saying they shouldn't. We all have different motives for the board/BaF and what we use it for in our personal lives.

I'm active in-season, I want to win, I make moves to keep my team competitive which didn't work out last year. I also have free agents i have in mind and strategies i'm thinking of to make my team better. And some of those include keeping my bird right FA's, but to me? No, I don't the think the write-ups are as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.

Now the draft portion and free agency - calling out players who weren't drafted or saying player x is being signed for cheap, bid him up...that's some childish chit and i agree with you 100% on that.

3 Years ago we had small ball line-ups already out there IRL. I mean c'mon man, you seriously can't compare RoCo to a 6' pg in D. Rose playing C...blatant tanking (which you didn't do) and line-up manipulation (which you did) i'm heavily against that, as I think that is more of a detriment to the league than off-season player write-ups which most, if not all gm's are not taking seriously anyway. There's a lot of variables at play when it comes to Free Agency -which you outlined in terms of year 4 vs year 5 and things like that which have more impact than hoffa's offseason write-ups which i'm guessing not many are using to base their free agency plans on.

Look man, at this point I don't know what to tell you. Let me try again.

It's public knowledge that we all have valuables in our homes. Would you want someone who has been to your house and has a keen eye, to tell someone else who has been to your house but doesn't necessarily pay mad attention to your assets, exactly where all your valuables are?

Now would you want that person with the keen eye to give the person with the non-attentive a detailed plan on how to get straight to those assets and get them?

If your answer is you have no issues with that, then we just built different and won't ever see things eye to eye.

It's just odd you have a bigger issue with me playing to win in an elimination playoff game, in good faith, than you do someone attempting to manipulate others in bad faith, in a self-serving attempt to improve their own standing.

As I told bish. Whether GMs actually pay attention to, or adopt his plan is not my primary concern. What you, the Commish, or anyone else THINKS or BELIEVES others will do, ultimately, is neither here nor there. The fact that acting in bad faith presents a plausible scenario for it to even occur is the larger issue. If no one follows through acting out on Hoffa's hopes, I'd consider it good fortune. But the right thing to do is eliminate the possibility of such unethical fuggery altogether. In the best interest of the league.

Hold the fack up.....This is a game....this is not valuables in my home or someone coming from my livelihood.

Are you really comparing a what amounts to a fantasy basketball game with no real monetary value or no real life implications to valuables in your home??? If so bro - we are built different, cause I would never equate this to something as serious as that like wtf is that comparison my guy. This game that real to you? That serious to you? That you compare hoffa's write-ups to someone stealing valuables in your home?

I have an issue with line-up manipulation in the sim period, I was against it early on when it was tanking so if anything i'm being consistent, as that has a greater consequences on teams/standings/draft than hoffa's bullchit offseason write-ups that people shouldn't and probably aren't taking seriously. Apparently you are taking this seriously I guess since you equate his write-ups where people might get D. Rose or JJ Reddick from you to someone breaking into your house and stealing your valuables or money. D. Rose or JJ ain't winning you or anyone out here any championships.

Like gtfo outta here with that comparison bro. This is a game.

Dude the analogy was based on assets. Personal assets / SIM assets. If that ruffles your feathers then iono what to tell you.

And again, if yo ass cared so much about lineup manipulation the you missed your chance to vote. Deal with it.

[Slicin N Dicin]

And i'm not sitting here riding for Hoffa or defending him - he does troll just to troll and sometimes the chit is amusing and sometimes the responses he gets are amusing (penis headed for one)

but some things dragging on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on - when they're not that serious to begin with i think it's ridiculous and i'll call it out.

Now if this was a fantasy league or something similar with real $$ was involved, i'll admit my tune would be different

That's your opinion. I've given sound rationale for mine and it has merit. But if you choose to engage and speak on it, then be prepared for it to keep dragging on and on and on and on. Cuz I'ma advocate for myself.

All you dudes was quiet when I was just in the cut minding my business not answering or taking the bait for months. But when the profiles pop and my team/players got put on front street repeatedly, damn mf right I'ma speak up and defend my stance. If anyone got a problem with that, you can choke on Hoffa's head.

all i said was you were overreacting..seems like you got his head up your ass with how butthurt you are. You aint winning a facking chip anyway, dafuq you crying for? You really want to try and take it there with your last comment, fuq outta here.

[Slicin N Dicin]

Look man, at this point I don't know what to tell you. Let me try again.

It's public knowledge that we all have valuables in our homes. Would you want someone who has been to your house and has a keen eye, to tell someone else who has been to your house but doesn't necessarily pay mad attention to your assets, exactly where all your valuables are?

Now would you want that person with the keen eye to give the person with the non-attentive a detailed plan on how to get straight to those assets and get them?

If your answer is you have no issues with that, then we just built different and won't ever see things eye to eye.

It's just odd you have a bigger issue with me playing to win in an elimination playoff game, in good faith, than you do someone attempting to manipulate others in bad faith, in a self-serving attempt to improve their own standing.

As I told bish. Whether GMs actually pay attention to, or adopt his plan is not my primary concern. What you, the Commish, or anyone else THINKS or BELIEVES others will do, ultimately, is neither here nor there. The fact that acting in bad faith presents a plausible scenario for it to even occur is the larger issue. If no one follows through acting out on Hoffa's hopes, I'd consider it good fortune. But the right thing to do is eliminate the possibility of such unethical fuggery altogether. In the best interest of the league.

Hold the fack up.....This is a game....this is not valuables in my home or someone coming from my livelihood.

Are you really comparing a what amounts to a fantasy basketball game with no real monetary value or no real life implications to valuables in your home??? If so bro - we are built different, cause I would never equate this to something as serious as that like wtf is that comparison my guy. This game that real to you? That serious to you? That you compare hoffa's write-ups to someone stealing valuables in your home?

I have an issue with line-up manipulation in the sim period, I was against it early on when it was tanking so if anything i'm being consistent, as that has a greater consequences on teams/standings/draft than hoffa's bullchit offseason write-ups that people shouldn't and probably aren't taking seriously. Apparently you are taking this seriously I guess since you equate his write-ups where people might get D. Rose or JJ Reddick from you to someone breaking into your house and stealing your valuables or money. D. Rose or JJ ain't winning you or anyone out here any championships.

Like gtfo outta here with that comparison bro. This is a game.

Dude the analogy was based on assets. Personal assets / SIM assets. If that ruffles your feathers then iono what to tell you.

And again, if yo ass cared so much about lineup manipulation the you missed your chance to vote. Deal with it.

Nahh just a stupid ass analogy.

I'm against it and only mentioned it since you riding so hard for D. Rose at center...other than that i never brought it up and caped against, just bringing it up since you like defending it so much.

Keep being butthurt my guy...real good look on you

[Slicin N Dicin]

facking chit, can't believe i'm even entertaining this nonsense and making me feel like i'm defending hoffa...the fuq is going on

dudes crying on here and then crying again if you don't support their opinion. i got chit to do outside of here..if you want to keep the banter going, go for it. at the end of the day it won't change my opinion you crying over chit that's not worth crying about


I guess all the times i've advocated and egged on the drama, i guess it's about time i was in some on this board

[2010]

If he was doing it for one specific team only or targeting one specific team - then yeah, that's an issue. If he's doing it for every FA out there, or the major ones at least...and again, my free agents are on there as I have 3 top 5 FA's in their respective positions, they all had profiles written as well...I see no major harm. Then again - I use this game as fun and maybe my perspective is different since i already won a chip on here and once Boogie went down I just said **** it and tried to go a different route in my team. Others might take this more seriously and I'm not saying they shouldn't. We all have different motives for the board/BaF and what we use it for in our personal lives.

I'm going at the enlarged. You sound bugged out. How can you say you see no major harm when this dude has openly stated his intention is to do the exact opposite. He wants to cause harm to competitors, cap out team by making them spend more than the market would normally dictate, and use other GMs to drive up prices if he can't or is unwilling to do so himself. So again, you are downplaying the intentions he has already stated upfront.

I'm active in-season, I want to win, I make moves to keep my team competitive which didn't work out last year. I also have free agents i have in mind and strategies i'm thinking of to make my team better. And some of those include keeping my bird right FA's, but to me? No, I don't the think the write-ups are as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.

Lets keep it real. You don't think it's a big deal because your cap space is not limited. If it were, you wouldn't have as many options in your strategies. And maybe then you'd see things a bit through my lens. And stop fronting like you don't take this schit seriously and it is all fun. Cuz I remember you were ready to quit and alluding to the possibility in-season once your team was on the brink of elimination. You made a post dropping hints you may not be back. And I'm not talking about you saying you wouldn't be around in the long summer and letting us know admirably. I'm talking about at the end of the year when it was clear you wasn't likely to make the playoffs.

Now the draft portion and free agency - calling out players who weren't drafted or saying player x is being signed for cheap, bid him up...that's some childish chit and i agree with you 100% on that.

Nah, keep that same energy. If you wit the chits wit the profiles fuggery and giving teams strategy to target specific players down to full details, then don't have no problems when he on his bullchit during the free agency bidding process.

3 Years ago we had small ball line-ups already out there IRL. I mean c'mon man, you seriously can't compare RoCo to a 6' pg in D. Rose playing C

Yup, I'm seriously comparing it. Cuz if the trend continues who knows how far a future NBA coach might take it. 10 years ago most would have scoffed at RoCo at C.

...blatant tanking (which you didn't do) and line-up manipulation (which you did) i'm heavily against that, as I think that is more of a detriment to the league than off-season player write-ups which most, if not all gm's are not taking seriously anyway. There's a lot of variables at play when it comes to Free Agency -which you outlined in terms of year 4 vs year 5 and things like that which have more impact than hoffa's offseason write-ups which i'm guessing not many are using to base their free agency plans on.

If you're playing to win then there's no such thing as SIM manipulation. If you can figure out a way to gain success with your lineup that the SIM respects then there should be no shame or discrediting that.

So again, I'm asking you (this isn't a rhetorical question)... did you think I should have just not made any adjustments and been content to just stand pat, keep the status quo and get swept? That's more ridiculous than your suggestion that I take issue with hoffa's profiles.

Lmao look man you apparently take this very seriously. Calling me bugged out when you're the one coming at me since I think you're overreacting. You're bugged out my guy. Now you're saying i can't be against the FA/Draft manipulation since I don't think the write-up's are harmful? I've said clearly and many times, pretty much everyone on here is dismissing his write-ups and just reading them as off-season discussion- apparently to you this is that serious. I'm agreeing with what I think is a clear ethical violation...but now you're saying since i'm not against both i can't be against one...You're very clearly the bugged out one.

This weirdo tryna say I take this seriously (which I do) but you missing the playoffs had you distraught to the point of tryna quit. TWICE.

Indecisive lookin' ass

Stop crying about the line-up manipulation my guy...you did it to win...kudos, it worked....i just mentioned i'm against line-up manipulation in any way shape or form, which started with the blatant tanking..do you see me leading a crusade against you or anyone on it and saying it should be banished and taking over the thread about it? If it's not voted against, then so be it. I'm more against the tanking portion of it, which you apparently don't think matters at all since you haven't called that part out, just the portion on how you used it. Congrats, you manipulated the sim to a win..good for you. It's not tanking, but still in the same sense of line-up manipulation..it's not breaking a rule so i don't care. This guy really trying to say playing D. Rose at center isn't sim manipulation, give me some of what you're chiefing on.

You telling me to stop crying about lineup manipulation when you brought it up and coined the term "SIM manipulation"
I guess if something works in the SIM that doesn't work in real life we shouldn't try to win with it. I should have just got swept and threaten to quit like you. Take my ball and go home. Big baby ass

I was tight in season when i thought I had a playoff caliber team with the moves I made and it didn't work out. People get tight, I was still active, still around right? What the fack does that have to do with this conversation? You got anything else you want to pull out your ass on here?

It has to do with it cuz you claim you don't take this seriously. You claim it's all fun and games. Until you lose

Like bro, I had no beef with you, still don't...but don't facking come at me like that. I'm not defending hoffa, I'm just saying you're crying over a facking game is all and crying over something I personally feel is not a big deal since I know this is a facking game with no IRL consequences..apparently to you hoffa is coming and stealing valuables in your home. GTFO here with that chit. Can't believe I'm writing paragraphs on this chit over something so facking trivial...is this that facking real to you.[

And you were crying over missing the playoffs. In a game. To the point you wanted to quit. 2x. Sign this dude to Casanova 2x label

Apparently this schit so real to you, you couldn't bear the thought of continuing on TWICE

People had to urge you to come back. It's ok... It's ok... you can try again.