If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick?

Post #21 » by **coldfish** » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:09 pm

I would try to do the best thing available.

Seems simple but it really does matter what other teams are offering. If I could trade 4+Lauri for Edwards, I would. I wouldn't trade anything extra to get Ball or Wiseman though.

Trading down, I would take two lottery picks over the #4, even if the lottery pick is in a later year. I wouldn't trade down for a late first or a second.

Trading for a player, it depends on who it is. It would have to be a younger guy which makes it extremely unlikely.

If stuck with the pick, I have no idea. I really hate all of the players being discussed. Major flags with all of them.

Post #22 » by **dougthonus** » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:49 pm

PaKii94 wrote:If we must draft at 4 I'm taking vassell but I'd rather trade down and get vassell + one of nesmith/haliburton

You won't get two picks in this draft, you probably wouldn't want to anyway.
Boston 14 + 26 + 30
Knicks 8 + 27
Minnesota 1 + 17

are the teams with multiple 1sts unless I'm missing someone. Minnesota is obviously out, those other picks aren't getting you two exciting players.

I'd take Nesmith over Vassell. I don't care much for Vassell at all.

Post #23 » by **coldfish** » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:40 pm

dougthonus wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:If we must draft at 4 I'm taking vassell but I'd rather trade down and get vassell + one of nesmith/haliburton

You won't get two picks in this draft, you probably wouldn't want to anyway.
Boston 14 + 26 + 30
Knicks 8 + 27
Minnesota 1 + 17

are the teams with multiple 1sts unless I'm missing someone. Minnesota is obviously out, those other picks aren't getting you two exciting players.

I'd take Nesmith over Vassell. I don't care much for Vassell at all.

If I was going to trade down, I would almost prefer something like a top 10 pick and a future lightly protected first. The draft when the high schoolers are back should be deep if you can get there.

Again, unlikely because other teams know this. IMO, the Bulls will likely be stuck at 4.

Almost Retired · Post #24 » by **Almost Retired** » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:07 pm

There is no sure fire superstar in this Draft. Every prospect has question marks. So I'd draft for need. And for us that is the SF position. If Deni is available at #4 then I'd take him. If we could get more playmaking from that position it would lessen our need for playmaking from our PG and Zach. Some on the board disagree but I think Coby White is going to be a great scoring PG. Not the best passer or shot creator for others. But a matchup problem on offense. Combine him with Zach and you have two potentially dynamic back court scorers that could easily combine to average 40 points a game. Add in a Deni who has height, passing ability and court vision to take up some of the half court playmaking responsibilities and we could have something. If OPJ can stay healthy then Deni can learn for year, enjoy spot minutes, and work on his body and his game. And hope he can take the reins next season when we probably let OPJ walk to save cap space.

If Deni is gone then I'd take Vassel at #4, even if he's slotted in most Mocks to go between 6 and 10. I at least project him to be a starter in the league. He's got a great BB IQ and really good fundamentals and instincts on the defensive end. He's long enough (but no freak), athletic enough, and a good enough shooter. He could improve in all his weaker areas over the course of his rookie season. Then be ready for a bigger role in his 2nd season. We will have to see if Hutch can stay healthy, and if he's made any strides. If so a Hutch and Vassel duo at SF might be pretty good.

Post #25 » by **dougthonus** » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:47 pm

coldfish wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:If we must draft at 4 I'm taking vassell but I'd rather trade down and get vassell + one of nesmith/haliburton

You won't get two picks in this draft, you probably wouldn't want to anyway.
Boston 14 + 26 + 30
Knicks 8 + 27
Minnesota 1 + 17

are the teams with multiple 1sts unless I'm missing someone. Minnesota is obviously out, those other picks aren't getting you two exciting players.

I'd take Nesmith over Vassell. I don't care much for Vassell at all.

If I was going to trade down, I would almost prefer something like a top 10 pick and a future lightly protected first. The draft when the high schoolers are back should be deep if you can get there.

Again, unlikely because other teams know this. IMO, the Bulls will likely be stuck at 4.

I think there will be some deal on the table if you're willing to drop far enough.

How far would you drop down to get a pick that projects to #12-18 next year and is top 4 protected? #8? #10? #15? #20?

I think in the end, the real answer, like in most trade scenarios is teams tend to overvalue their own assets so no reasonable deal will be available. The fair value might be something like #12 for that pick based on how bad people anticipate this draft to be, but we would say dropping all the way down to #12 is crazy. At the same time, the guy at #12 might think, man, I think the guy at #4 is only a shade better than the guy at #12, why would I pay next pick to move up?

PaKii94 · Post #26 » by **PaKii94** » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:21 pm

dougthonus wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:If we must draft at 4 I'm taking vassell but I'd rather trade down and get vassell + one of nesmith/haliburton

You won't get two picks in this draft, you probably wouldn't want to anyway.
Boston 14 + 26 + 30
Knicks 8 + 27
Minnesota 1 + 17

are the teams with multiple 1sts unless I'm missing someone. Minnesota is obviously out, those other picks aren't getting you two exciting players.

I'd take Nesmith over Vassell. I don't care much for Vassell at all.

Why are you not a fan of vassell? Nesmith the shooting will be valuable (ala dunkin Rob) but idk what else he will bring

SHO'NUFF · Post #27 » by **SHO'NUFF** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:05 am

Trade up for #2. Of course not using Zach.

Something similar to what bleacher report posted the other day. If that doesn’t work I’d stick with #4 & take BPA

Dez · Post #28 » by **Dez** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:28 am

Just stick with 4 and go BPA, I like Hayes.

Mech Engineer · Post #29 » by **Mech Engineer** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:38 am

This is a crapshoot and if there is somebody who looks like a younger version of Jamal Murray, draft him. The Bulls need a lot of such players. Don't draft a big who can't shoot regardless of their other skills.

Post #30 » by **dougthonus** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:00 am

PaKii94 wrote:Why are you not a fan of vassell? Nesmith the shooting will be valuable (ala dunkin Rob) but idk what else he will bring

In terms of Nesmith:

Posted this on my twitter:
19+ points per game (23)
50%+ from 3 (52%)
6+ 3pa a game (8.2)

Only 1 guy has ever done that, Nesmith. His shooting is really on another level there. Only thing I'd say is sample size is a bit small because of number of games, but that stretch is pretty unheard of. Yeah, he's mainly a shooter, but he's a 6'6 elite shooter and decent athlete. Question whether he'll add much due to lack of ball handling, not tremendous athlete, not a tremendous creator, but if he can tick up his ball handling a bit, he can be an elite shooter in the NBA and potentially be a great scorer.

In terms of Vassell, I don't think his shooting form is that good or that his shooting percentages will translate that well to the NBA. He has this way over the head two handed shooting form that isn't real common in terms of success. Defensively, he's not a great athlete and is more lanky/skilled, and I'm not necessarily convinced that will translate either.

The Chosen one · Post #31 » by **The Chosen one** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:55 am

Chose between Wiseman, Toppin, Ball, Edwards and maybe Denni. They are the best players in this draft. I saw Toppin working out and he looks amazing! Not his dunks but his ball handling and shot looks to be improved.For all of the talk about playmakers and passers in this draft, Toppin doesn’t have to take a seat to anyone in this draft. He makes the right read all the time and his passes are on the money. His shot off the dribble looks very good now. I think he’s one of the only players that have a chance at starting day one. Wiseman is another guy who would have a chance at starting in year one. He is going to be an elite rebounder in shot blocker. His handle looks very good and he moves extremely well. My big board is 1) Wiseman 2) Toppin 3) Edwards 4) Ball 5) Denni/Okorro. I’m usually very good at my evaluating talent. Only prospect in the last 10 years I missed on was Luka. I didn’t know he would be this good. But I’m usually spot on with my draft picks.

Southpaw · Post #32 » by **Southpaw** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:35 am

I'd try to trade up for either Edwards or Wiseman using the 4th pick and some asset. If it doesn't work pick whoever is available between Edwards > Wiseman > Deni > Hayes > Ball > Haliburton in that order. I wouldn't mind a trade down if we can get a future pick around 10-20.

sco · Post #33 » by **sco** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:11 pm

Almost Retired wrote:There is no sure fire superstar in this Draft. Every prospect has question marks. So I'd draft for need. And for us that is the SF position. If Deni is available at #4 then I'd take him. If we could get more playmaking from that position it would lessen our need for playmaking from our PG and Zach. Some on the board disagree but I think Coby White is going to be a great scoring PG. Not the best passer or shot creator for others. But a matchup problem on offense. Combine him with Zach and you have two potentially dynamic back court scorers that could easily combine to average 40 points a game. Add in a Deni who has height, passing ability and court vision to take up some of the half court playmaking responsibilities and we could have something. If OPJ can stay healthy then Deni can learn for year, enjoy spot minutes, and work on his body and his game. And hope he can take the reins next season when we probably let OPJ walk to save cap space.

If Deni is gone then I'd take Vassel at #4, even if he's slotted in most Mocks to go between 6 and 10. I at least project him to be a starter in the league. He's got a great BB IQ and really good fundamentals and instincts on the defensive end. He's long enough (but no freak), athletic enough, and a good enough shooter. He could improve in all his weaker areas over the course of his rookie season. Then be ready for a bigger role in his 2nd season. We will have to see if Hutch can stay healthy, and if he's made any strides. If so a Hutch and Vassel duo at SF might be pretty good.

Maybe I'm still feeling burned by the (old)FO confusing McDermott with Korver, but I see a bigger risk of Deni being a "Luca trap". I'd feel much better about him if he had real success in a top league, but Israel is the international version of the Ivy League - just a bigger risk of fools gold against weaker competition. Deni also scares me because his playmaking is all with one hand...coupled with questionable 3pt shooting.

Not to pick on Deni alone, I don't like Ball (no shot, limited defender), Wiseman (no college resume), or even Edwards(questionable defender, low BBIQ - but he has the fewest question marks of the group). That's why I'd love to trade down. To Doug's point, I'd be fine with nabbing the second pick for next season or for a young talent.

TheHrvReport · Post #34 » by **TheHrvReport** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:09 pm

Trade back to 8-12 range if possible. If not I am standing pat and picking Okoro at #4. He's elite and NBA ready on defense and I think he has more offensive potential than most people. I know that's a very "GarPax" pick but i'm not sold on anyone else at the moment. I'll give AKME the benefit of the doubt with whoever they pick though.

Am2626 · Post #35 » by **Am2626** » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:08 am

weneeda2guard wrote:Plan a = trade up to take ball

Plan b = take killian hayes wiseman deni or obi toppin at 4

Plan c trade it for a star on the move i.e beal or devin booker etc.

I think Wiseman will be a better Center than Carter Jr. I would be fine using Carter Jr. to move up to take Wiseman if necessary. I would not include any of LaVine, Lauri, or Coby White though.

2018C3 · Post #36 » by **2018C3** » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:54 am

Most players in the top 5 are the most valuable before they enter the court. Its like driving a new car off a lot. A few years later, your ready to trade it in.

A few become classics.

PhilLeotardo · Post #37 » by **PhilLeotardo** » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:35 am

Mech Engineer wrote:This is a crapshoot and if there is somebody who looks like a younger version of Jamal Murray, draft him. The Bulls need a lot of such players. Don't draft a big who can't shoot regardless of their other skills.

The bulls already have the younger version of Murray on their team

What the Bulls need are 6’7+ Swiss Army knife wing players. 3&D guys

TeamMan · Post #38 » by **TeamMan** » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:50 am

PhilLeotardo wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:This is a crapshoot and if there is somebody who looks like a younger version of Jamal Murray, draft him. The Bulls need a lot of such players. Don't draft a big who can't shoot regardless of their other skills.

The bulls already have the younger version of Murray on their team

What the Bulls need are 6’7+ Swiss Army knife wing players. 3&D guys

The good news is that there are lot of then in this draft.

The Bulls could actually trade down and still get a good one.

TeamMan · Post #39 » by **TeamMan** » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:53 am

Am2626 wrote:
weneeda2guard wrote:Plan a = trade up to take ball

Plan b = take killian hayes wiseman deni or obi toppin at 4

Plan c trade it for a star on the move i.e beal or devin booker etc.

I think Wiseman will be a better Center than Carter Jr. I would be fine using Carter Jr. to move up to take Wiseman if necessary. I would not include any of LaVine, Lauri, or Coby White though.

The problem is that Lauri is the player most likel to get us a trade-up.

PhilLeotardo · Post #40 » by **PhilLeotardo** » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:14 am

TeamMan wrote:
PhilLeotardo wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:This is a crapshoot and if there is somebody who looks like a younger version of Jamal Murray, draft him. The Bulls need a lot of such players. Don't draft a big who can't shoot regardless of their other skills.

The bulls already have the younger version of Murray on their team

What the Bulls need are 6’7+ Swiss Army knife wing players. 3&D guys

The good news is that there are lot of then in this draft.

The Bulls could actually trade down and still get a good one.

Yikes. There are? This draft is infamous for *not* having many quality wings. The 2021 draft is the one that is loaded with high end wing talent.

What would you do with the #4 pick?