Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond...

[inspired4fr33]

Everyone is missing the disrespect factor and the consequences it brings. Butler has gone on the record saying how you are paid is how a team sees you. The 76er in the end were offering him more but they disrespected him and he left. You are literally telling an all star, possibly the best center in the East to get to the back of the line on the possibility we might get someone? If for fun we tried that stunt with Butler how would he react? The Magic at one time went over the Lakers offer but by then the damage was done and Shaq was a Laker. You cant talk about culture or loyalty and then tell people to wait without ramifications. Personally pay the man and make that a recruiting pitch, worse case you make trades. We didnt get Butler with cap space. Again just imagine the reaction from other teams if the Celtic would tell Tatum to wait, people would be licking there fingers ready to get him. Remember in our elimination game one of our stars had a 25/10/5 game while another star player barely had triple double but only scored 12 point when we need points on the score board to have a chance. Its like people forget Wade left us because he felt disrespected and he’s basically 305. I cant people people are saying this is an easy sell...

I think you're overreacting. It's not disrespect, it's business. Besides, he doesn't have leverage. Next year is the team option, and then comes restricted free agency which means we can match any offer he gets. Acting up is not going to help his case.

You've been around long enough to know that Pat is not going to let Giannis get away to make Bam happy.

Missing from the discussion is making Bam unhappy is not good because Bam and Giannis share the same agent. You can't just put Bam in the corner and say wait when you're working with the same agent to prioritize ab outside client. It could lead pushing Giannis away and could get very messy unless Bam is totally with the idea. Ultimately it hinges on Bam and Giannis being open to playing with one another and letting things play out. Again this complex dynamic is why there's been so many reports of Bam waiting being a clear indicator of Miami being a serious player for Giannis.

Okay so we please Bam and extend him this offseason he’s paid he’s secured his deal and he’s thrilled. Fast forward the following year and Giannis meets with us and loves us and we no longer have the cap to sign him. Now what? We’re left holding our dicks in our hands.

[insfo]

Some of you are delusional with these Harden trade proposals. Robinson/Nunn/KO+picks?? Lol, you will get laughed at for proposals like that! And I guess we “sweeten the pot” by adding Iguodala?? If the opening offer isn’t going to be Bam+Herro+picks, then we might as well not even try.

And for folks talking about fit, if in the very remote chance we somehow get gifted Harden, I trust Spo to make it work. But realistically, we are better off trying run it back with some combination of Ibaka/Gallo/Noel, hoping for some growth in Bam, Herro, Nunn & Robinson...and waiting for the next offseason.

[MadD23]

None of us know what Riley and his front office studs are going to do, but one thing I know for certain is that he always pulls something unexpected out of nowhere that surprises everyone. I believe he'll make a Godfather type move at any point between now and 2021.

[puppa bear]

Everyone is missing the disrespect factor and the consequences it brings. Butler has gone on the record saying how you are paid is how a team sees you. The 76er in the end were offering him more but they disrespected him and he left. You are literally telling an all star, possibly the best center in the East to get to the back of the line on the possibility we might get someone? If for fun we tried that stunt with Butler how would he react? The Magic at one time went over the Lakers offer but by then the damage was done and Shaq was a Laker. You cant talk about culture or loyalty and then tell people to wait without ramifications. Personally pay the man and make that a recruiting pitch, worse case you make trades. We didnt get Butler with cap space. Again just imagine the reaction from other teams if the Celtic would tell Tatum to wait, people would be licking there fingers ready to get him. Remember in our elimination game one of our stars had a 25/10/5 game while another star player barely had triple double but only scored 12 point when we need points on the score board to have a chance. Its like people forget Wade left us because he felt disrespected and he’s basically 305. I cant people people are saying this is an easy sell...

I think you're overreacting. It's not disrespect, it's business. Besides, he doesn't have leverage. Next year is the team option, and then comes restricted free agency which means we can match any offer he gets. Acting up is not going to help his case.

You've been around long enough to know that Pat is not going to let Giannis get away to make Bam happy.

Missing from the discussion is making Bam unhappy is not good because Bam and Giannis share the same agent. You can't just put Bam in the corner and say wait when you're working with the same agent to prioritize ab outside client. It could lead pushing Giannis away and could get very messy unless Bam is totally with the idea. Ultimately it hinges on Bam and Giannis being open to playing with one another and letting things play out. Again this complex dynamic is why there's been so many reports of Bam waiting being a clear indicator of Miami being a serious player for Giannis.

I trust the FO to be transparent enough with Bam (& Jimmy), so that he knows that us waiting to sign him is to ensure he gets the best teammates, and the right teammates. If Bam said no to a player because of legitimate concerns over not fitting Heat culture they would listen. His actions are helping to shape the Heat’s future, which has him at the core of it.

Barring a trade, out future is Bam/Herro/2021 FA, with Jimmy playing a hybrid Wade/UD role (once UD retires) as vet star mentor who is the heart of the team. Duncan/Nunn/KZ/etc are the role players filling the gaps and complementing that core.

[puppa bear]

None of us know what Riley and his front office studs are going to do, but one thing I know for certain is that he always pulls something unexpected out of nowhere that surprises everyone. I believe he'll make a Godfather type move at any point between now and 2021.

I don’t think it will be that unexpected. We knew that Jimmy was on the radar and was a possibility, we just didn’t know how serious Jimmy would be. Modern media has made it hard for Pat and his FO to be as tight lipped as they used to be, especially when it comes to dealing with agents.

[3ballbomber]

Kobe didn't say anything controversial, Rockets were trash without Harden and CP looked done all season, so he did what he had to and it led them to a competitive series with the KD Warriors-- which no other team in the league succeeded in having

Giannas on the other hand has been embarrassed in the playoffs multiple times while healthy. He's definitely not worth squandering our offense, right?

The reach.

you really just put down Giannis to help the argument for Harden didn't you.

i respect everybody's views, including yours....but this is growing inexplicably strange

[Bishop45]

Kobe didn't say anything controversial, Rockets were trash without Harden and CP looked done all season, so he did what he had to and it led them to a competitive series with the KD Warriors-- which no other team in the league succeeded in having

Giannas on the other hand has been embarrassed in the playoffs multiple times while healthy. He's definitely not worth squandering our offense, right?

The reach.

you really just put down Giannis to help the argument for Harden didn't you.

i respect everybody's views, including yours....but this is growing inexplicably strange

I'm making a point by pointing out an irrational double standard. Is Giannis not the same type of all flash, no substance, playoff loser?

[MadD23]

None of us know what Riley and his front office studs are going to do, but one thing I know for certain is that he always pulls something unexpected out of nowhere that surprises everyone. I believe he'll make a Godfather type move at any point between now and 2021.

I don’t think it will be that unexpected. We knew that Jimmy was on the radar and was a possibility, we just didn’t know how serious Jimmy would be. Modern media has made it hard for Pat and his FO to be as tight lipped as they used to be, especially when it comes to dealing with agents.

Nah, no one imagined we had a chance at him with cero cap space and all the bad contracts we thankfully ended up getting rid of. Also, Jimmy didn't show his hand until free agency started when he forced his way down here. Thankfully J Rich was an attractive enough value for them to facilitate the sign and trade. No one saw it coming.

[3ballbomber]

Kobe didn't say anything controversial, Rockets were trash without Harden and CP looked done all season, so he did what he had to and it led them to a competitive series with the KD Warriors-- which no other team in the league succeeded in having

Giannas on the other hand has been embarrassed in the playoffs multiple times while healthy. He's definitely not worth squandering our offense, right?

The reach.

you really just put down Giannis to help the argument for Harden didn't you.

i respect everybody's views, including yours....but this is growing inexplicably strange

I'm making a point by pointing out an irrational double standard. Is Giannis not the same type of all flash, no substance, playoff loser?

I agree they both been unsuccessful in reaching NBA finals taking away the opportunity for Championship. The point is the manner in which they've failed...

Harden's downfall ultimately is his ball dominance, which he leads by a mile, according to isolation statistics. Harden generates almost 50% of his offence in isolation. And it's not a 1 off. Harden has led the NBA in isolation scoring in each of the last FIVE seasons. And cld possibly be longer, the tracking data only goes back to 2015-16. This will always be an argument against him.

While we've proven, without a prolific scorer, sharing the ball & being disciplined has lead to success...especially in the post season. Teamwork is key! Harden would be counter productive to our identity & how we've achieved success.

Harden's not young anymore, He'll reach father time nxt yr. Adjusting style won't be easy. Giannis on the other hand is just 25yo. Is yet to even reach his prime (another argument for acquiring him). He wld be easy to mold, plus he'd be less set in his habits.

The issue w/ Bucks is they have below average shooters to surround Giannis. They have just 3 snipers. They let 'em fly, are 4th in attempts but don't make much of them & are near the bottom of the pack in shooting %. They're also ranked 27th in open looks to prove further just how average they are. Their shooting was exposed further in the PO's. This has a lot more to do w/ Milwaukee's failure in the PO's than Giannis himself.

Again he's still just 25yo. Both Durant & Lebron were 28yo when they won their 1st titles & that was w/ ultra stacked GSW & Heat squads. While Harden will be past his prime nxt yr & is yet to win his 1st ship.

[Bishop45]

I agree they both been unsuccessful in reaching NBA finals taking away the opportunity for Championship. The point is the manner in which they've failed...

Harden's downfall ultimately is his ball dominance, which he leads by a mile, according to isolation statistics. Harden generates almost 50% of his offence in isolation. And it's not a 1 off. Harden has led the NBA in isolation scoring in each of the last FIVE seasons. And cld possibly be longer, the tracking data only goes back to 2015-16. This will always be an argument against him.

While we've proven, without a prolific scorer, sharing the ball & being disciplined has lead to success...especially in the post season. Teamwork is key! Harden would be counter productive to our identity & how we've achieved success.

Harden's not young anymore, He'll reach father time nxt yr. Adjusting style won't be easy. Giannis on the other hand is just 25yo. Is yet to even reach his prime (another argument for acquiring him). He wld be easy to mold, plus he'd be less set in his habits.

The issue w/ Bucks is they have below average shooters to surround Giannis. They have just 3 snipers. They let 'em fly, are 4th in attempts but don't make much of them & are near the bottom of the pack in shooting %. They're also ranked 27th in open looks to prove further just how average they are. Their shooting was exposed further in the PO's. This has a lot more to do w/ Milwaukee's failure in the PO's than Giannis himself.

Again he's still just 25yo. Both Durant & Lebron were 28yo when they won their 1st titles & that was w/ ultra stacked GSW & Heat squads. While Harden will be past his prime nxt yr & is yet to win his 1st ship.

This is massive mental gymnastics and furthers the double standards I was talking about.

The manner in which they failed matters, but Harden has been far more successful in the playoffs-- why doesn't the manner in which Giannas has played factor into that-- Harden's style is supposedly toxic but he's been more successful, so what does that say about Giannis's style? Or should we eurostep that and just say that he's young?

Giannis has played on better teams but he can be bailed out for playing with 'subpar' shooters, even tho his squad, the past two seasons, have been healthy 1 seeds. And they loss in embarrassing fashion to lesser teams. This is a double standard-- an unfair one if you were being unbiased about it for a moment.


Harden has not showed any indication of being past his prime, so why are we talking about it? this is a goalpost shift-- is it his style of play or his age? Your chitting on Harden's style but don't think Giannis's is problematic and it's based off of feelings rather than any achievement or perceivable roadblocks. Wish folks would admit that

[DayofMourning]

Keeping our entire squad and adding Giannis makes more sense than trading away our roster for Harden. Thats the long and the short of it.

We are also stunningly short on big men who can defend and rebound.

While most focus on the offensive game wed have with Giannis (it wouldn't be Bucks version 2.0 I think), I'd rather look at his impact in other areas. Wed have the potential to become fast break beasts if you had every level guarded so well. Could draft Maxey this year to augment that even further.

[Bishop45]

Keeping our entire squad and adding Giannis makes more sense than trading away our roster for Harden. Thats the long and the short of it.

We are also stunningly short on big men who can defend and rebound.

While most focus on the offensive game wed have with Giannis (it wouldn't be Bucks version 2.0 I think), I'd rather look at his impact in other areas. Wed have the potential to become fast break beasts if you had every level guarded so well. Could draft Maxey this year to augment that even further.

This is also a reasonable argument. I would take this over the dogma about 'playing style,' but here we are

If I could be confident that Giannis would favor us next szn regardless of what might happen in the league in the following szn I'd be with it, but that's a lot to gamble and be hopeful for rn

[DayofMourning]

Keeping our entire squad and adding Giannis makes more sense than trading away our roster for Harden. Thats the long and the short of it.

We are also stunningly short on big men who can defend and rebound.

While most focus on the offensive game wed have with Giannis (it wouldn't be Bucks version 2.0 I think), I'd rather look at his impact in other areas. Wed have the potential to become fast break beasts if you had every level guarded so well. Could draft Maxey this year to augment that even further.

This is also a reasonable argument. I would take this over the dogma about 'playing style,' but here we are

If I could be confident that Giannis would favor us next szn regardless of what might happen in the league in the following szn I'd be with it, but that's a lot to gamble and be hopeful for rn

If they have a down season, I think he goes. It is a bit of blind faith he'd come here though.

[RonaldSeikaly]

Keeping our entire squad and adding Giannis makes more sense than trading away our roster for Harden. Thats the long and the short of it.

We are also stunningly short on big men who can defend and rebound.

While most focus on the offensive game wed have with Giannis (it wouldn't be Bucks version 2.0 I think), I'd rather look at his impact in other areas. Wed have the potential to become fast break beasts if you had every level guarded so well. Could draft Maxey this year to augment that even further.

This is also a reasonable argument. I would take this over the dogma about 'playing style,' but here we are

If I could be confident that Giannis would favor us next szn regardless of what might happen in the league in the following szn I'd be with it, but that's a lot to gamble and be hopeful for rn

If they have a down season, I think he goes.

Still even if he goes it’s no better than 50/50 that he comes here and probably worse odds than that. Plenty of contenders with cap space next year


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[Bishop45]

Keeping our entire squad and adding Giannis makes more sense than trading away our roster for Harden. Thats the long and the short of it.

We are also stunningly short on big men who can defend and rebound.

While most focus on the offensive game wed have with Giannis (it wouldn't be Bucks version 2.0 I think), I'd rather look at his impact in other areas. Wed have the potential to become fast break beasts if you had every level guarded so well. Could draft Maxey this year to augment that even further.

This is also a reasonable argument. I would take this over the dogma about 'playing style,' but here we are

If I could be confident that Giannis would favor us next szn regardless of what might happen in the league in the following szn I'd be with it, but that's a lot to gamble and be hopeful for rn

If they have a down season, I think he goes. It is a bit of blind faith he'd come here though.

Yea', it's a huge gamble in terms of opportunity costs if we sit and wait without any prior commitments ala AD

If we missed next off-szn that could mean 2 straight szn's of not getting Butler any significant help. Anything could happen, so no need to be negative, it's just a considerable risk on our part

[MHeat0279]

We need to remember what killed us against the lakers, it was a massive lack of size in the paint ( kelly and leonard play like midgets) and weak perimeter defense, forcing us to play zone. We need to focus on those two weakness when trying to get a player. I think Giannis makes the most sense

[RonaldSeikaly]

We need to remember what killed us against the lakers, it was a massive lack of size in the paint ( kelly and leonard play like midgets) and weak perimeter defense, forcing us to play zone. We need to focus on those two weakness when trying to get a player. I think Giannis makes the most sense

We need length, But I don’t think that’s where we need a superstar. A very good player who can defend and a superstar that spaces play is probably the best combination.


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[HeatingUp3]

Guys when free agancy starts?

[twix2500]

Guys when free agancy starts?

I believe late November or early December.

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[Beenie]

Some of you are delusional with these Harden trade proposals. Robinson/Nunn/KO+picks?? Lol, you will get laughed at for proposals like that! And I guess we “sweeten the pot” by adding Iguodala?? If the opening offer isn’t going to be Bam+Herro+picks, then we might as well not even try.

And for folks talking about fit, if in the very remote chance we somehow get gifted Harden, I trust Spo to make it work. But realistically, we are better off trying run it back with some combination of Ibaka/Gallo/Noel, hoping for some growth in Bam, Herro, Nunn & Robinson...and waiting for the next offseason.

I agree and disagree.

Hou presumably would be going into a rebuild if they trade Harden. They're gonna want multiple picks (high picks) and young upside players preferably on their rookie contracts.

Shortlist of guys who are likely on that list:
Zion
Morant
Herro
Luka
Trey Young
Tatum
Mitchell
Bam
Simmons (contract already extended)
Ingram

The only guy on this list other than Herro who could conceivably get traded for Harden is maybe Ingram, and I doubt it. Point is, Hou doesn't have good options to acquire young talent other than Herro. If Mia were to throw in Bam they would just be bidding against themselves, IMO. I think an offer of Herro, Nunn, KZ, DJJ (sign n trade), picks, and KO would really give them something to think about. Granted, they could find offers for a better assortment of draft picks than what Mia is capable of offering. But they'd be hard-pressed to get a better package of young players.