skywalker33 wrote:The Rebel wrote:
I never thought i would be defending Bartin against Nuggets fans, it is not secret I have never liked his fit.
Who would have
The Rebel wrote:That being said his hero play and his wanting to be a starter are the only reason he is on the block.
Well, I also think his playoff performances, or lack thereof, have to contribute as well. When he wasn't missed all that much this playoffs, put the writing on the wall IMO.
I could easily argue that he was missed pretty badly against the Jazz and Clippers, and that neither of those series should have gone to 7 games. Now he may have cost us a series, but it is Malone that chooses to leave him out there and let him go on his crazy runs all the time.
As fans we only count the good side or the bad side of a player. We all know that Jokic is not a shot blocker, some cannot get past that to see the good he does on the perimeter and cutting off drives where he can get steals. He is almost always top 5 in deflections and a lot of time guards get those steals. Some of us see Murray creating and running the offense when Jokic is off the court or being doubled, yet others only notice when Jokic is running the offense and Murray is playing off ball. To them he is a terrible PG, to me he shows how talented he is by being able to play both roles so effectively, not many in the league can do that. It is the same with Barton. He drives us all nuts, he tries to take over games and within minutes the leads are deficits. He cannot seem to stay in our offense, yet he is a willing passer and can seem to keep the offense rolling at time when Jokic and/or Murray are off the court. We see the turnovers and bad shots. He can hold a guy like Paul George 1-7 in a half, but we only remember the 1 drive George got by him.
Even with Millsap slowing down we were a top 5 defense for the 1st 6 weeks of the season, then Millsap got hurt, then Harris missed a couple of games, then Barton was out a few, mixed in were Jokic and Murray picking up assorted injuries they were playing through. IN the end we ended up middle the pack, and that was being the worst defense in the league for those 8 games in the bubble.
Remember how rare it was to see Jokic or Murray get effectively doubled when we had our starting lineup? A big part of that was Barton's shooting.
skywalker33 wrote:The Rebel wrote:You guys should go read through other team's trade threads on their boards. It seems like every team is looking for a 2/3 that can defend the 3 point line and hit spot up shots.
Well if the need is so high there, it's apparent that other teams don't see him in that light, else where are those lottery pick offers ?
I think as fans when we want a player traded that we assume they are on the block. Do you know that Scott Hastings used to laugh when people would call in or text that Barton needed to be traded? All the Nuggets beat reporters used to laugh about it. About a year ago I finally started to question why, and I watched him a lot of games. I listen to the radio interviews, and all they ever talked about was how much of a leader he is in the lockerroom. How much he does that the average fan does not notice. Last year that started to change, but even heading into the trade deadline Hastings was saying that the only way Harris or Barton were getting traded was for a all star that was a great fit. Now they avoid the questions about both Harris and Barton, so I think they are on the block now, but they weren't on the block up until now if you pay attention to what the media reports.
skywalker33 wrote:The Rebel wrote:As for Collins, you view him much higher than I or most Portland fans do. He is a spread backup 5. He is not quick enough to guard the top spread 4s and not strong enough against most starting Centers. Add in his injury history and tendency to be foul prone and he is not a huge value. He just fits what we need perfectly.
I do see the value in Collins, and I really liked him coming out of college and think he still has a high ceiling, especially compared to Barton.
I was pissed when the pick they used to jump us and pick Collins was the pick we gave them with Nurkic. Still pisses me off.
The thing you are missing is that Centers have been devalued in today's NBA. the Rockets did not even have 1 in the rotation for half the year. If you are not a star quality than you are JAG and nobody pays crap for them anymore. Collins has been in the league for 3 years, a year from now the Trailblazers are going to have to give him a big contract or lose him for a 2nd round pick to a team that hopes he can fulfill that potential. Having him miss most of the season hurt his develop, and the ability for the Blazers to see what he will become. If they want to keep him they will have to overpay to do it because we all know there are GMs that are going to believe that he has the talent that made him a lotto pick and they can unlock it, so they overpay for that guy. Next year they either overpay or sign and trade him for a protected 2nd.
The position that is overvalued, is SG/SFs that can play defense even if they have a marginal 3 point shot. Look at the deals guys like Ariza, BAzemore, Crabbe, and Ross all signed in the last couple of years, teams are desperate for a guy who can defend 2/3s on the perimeter especially if they can hit a jumpshot. You cannot look at those guys stats and advanced stats and convince me that any of them were better the year before they signed their contract than Barton was this year. Teams are begging for guys like Barton.
