Pointgod wrote:stuporman wrote:Pointgod wrote:Yes because there weren’t enough Progressives in Congress to provide move to Progressive policies. I don’t know why people can’t acknowledge that Democratic Presidents absolutely got screwed with Republican congresses. At some point you need to run a country and get things done and that involves compromise. If Progressives want to move the needle, then their one goal should be to keep Democrats in power at all 3 levels of Congress and continue to build their power in Congress. Something that if that had been done over the past 3 decades they would have already had more Progressive legislation passed.
And facts don’t support the idea that Republican policy would influence Biden. If that was the case, then Biden would not have put together the unity coalition, something even Bernie and AOC gave credit for implementing Progressive policies into his platform.
And as for the Lincoln Project they’ve been pretty clear about their motives, they’re trying to destroy Trumpism and show how destructive it is to the Republican Party. And yes it’s purely selfish but for a good reason, imagine trying to be in a Party controlled by QAnon domestic terrorists. I see Lincoln Project as the enemy of my enemy is my friend. They’re not Democrats, Liberals or Progressives, if Biden wins I expect them to fully go back to bashing him. That’s politics but if Republicans absolutely get destroyed in these elections and it leads to a Republican Party that’s less racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, homophobic and anti immigrant and takes climate change seriously then Lincoln project served their purpose.
So you are just confirming what I said, the establishment dems aren't progressive, they are closer to republicans than they are progressive and even with that the republicans refuse to compromise other than if the dems keep moving right to meet them.
The progressives through the strength of Bernie's primary showings and increasing Justice Democrat presence in congress has forced Biden to appear as if he is forming a coalition with them but committees are one thing, policy is another.
The coalition building is not really about establishment dems championing progressive policies as it is about forming a solid base to defeat Trump with progressives doing more of the reaching out than centrists have. Although progressive needs to recognize this deal with the devil is only temporary and keep the pressure on the liberals.
I will wait to see what gets done first before I give any credit, Biden's begrudgingly forced to accept it and you can see how he holds them at arms length in his rhetoric but has open arms for 'cooperation' with the GOP with his recent comments and through his history of behavior.
If Biden wins and then when some of these never Trump republicans find their way into the administration or other ways they exert some influence in the dem party you will remember I warned you it would happen.......because it's already been happening for decades.
The lobbyists and executives that get administration positions is where this migration of conservative policies find their way into the establishment dems platform. It has been this way for a long time and the progressive are serving notice they will be watching.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/16/aoc-progressives-biden-cabinet-429736
The so called Establishment Dems are Progressive in a number of different ways, but the country is still far more Conservative overall. From a political standpoint you’re going to get more Democrats who’s politics match the state that they run in rather than the national platform of the Democrats. Throw in the fact that Democrats have barely had real power and there really hasn’t been an opportunity to really push Progressive legislation that would actually pass.
When Obama got in they had a filibuster proof House and Senate for two years.... but did nothing. They could have passed anything they wanted at that point and what did they do? Completely wasted the hope and change momentum.
The coalition building is about Dems bringing in Progressives into the fold and incorporating their ideas. But why would you expect someone like Biden to run on the same platform as Bernie? If the Democratic Party voters prioritized Progressive policies, then Bernie would be the nominee right now. At the end of the day Biden’s platform will objectively be the most Progressive platform that’s been run on. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
If you look at exit polls during the primary all voters were overwhelmingly supportive of Bernie's policies.... so why didn't he win? Media spin because the only thing that Biden had in the exit polls in his favor was 'electability' and that was trumpeted as if it was all that mattered. Even that wasn't clear cut as both in head to head polls with Trump beat him soundly.
The media made policy inconsequential or if they did give it any attention flipped the perception upside down acting as if nobody supported Bernie's policies which was flat out wrong. That was when they weren't comparing his movement to brown shirts, to Trump's supporters or implying he wanted to drag the rich into the middle of central park to behead them.
Biden has to openly talk about cooperation with Republicans because that’s part of the political strategy. At this point who really cares? All that matters is getting rid of Trump and getting a Democratic controlled Senate. If Biden starts vetoing Progressive legislation then we can talk but no point worrying about hypotheticals when the overwhelming focus should be getting out the vote.
If it was just talk and not decades of action that supported the talk then I wouldn't point to it as problematic. I agree ousting Trump and flipping the senate is the priority but it's why Biden get my begrudging vote not my vocal support. He already vetoed progressive ideas when he won't even consider m4a, his tepid view of the green new deal and refuses to ban fracking.
If he puts in a public option with medicare, gets a free college bill even if it's means tested and puts forth a genuine clean energy initiative that addresses fracking in a real way then he will have accomplished more than I expect him to because I don't have faith in him to do it.
It's up to the progressives through the dems because they need them to get those bills to Biden's desk and put pressure on him to sign them. I still see too many establishment dems looking to their donors more than their constituents so am not encouraged they will do it willingly, progressive need to publicly call them out as the bills are coming up.
Without progressives pushing it all into the public discourse it would never have come about just through the establishment dems, their money donors wouldn't stand for it. The problem outlined in these articles needs to be dealt with and people need to be held accountable for it, it's disgusting.
https://www.nationofchange.org/2020/07/14/privatize-the-profit-socialize-the-mess-abandoned-fracking-wells-left-spewing-climate-killing-methane-nationwide/https://finance-commerce.com/2020/07/fracking-firms-fail-rewarding-executives-and-raising-climate-fears/And I hope that Biden has enough smart people around him to realize that any support gained from Republicans will be sustained for one cycle. Govern to the further left and focus on policies that we know how bipartisan appeal. I agree with you that we get some new ideas into the cabinet because the same thinking and orthodoxy that was used in previous administrations obviously doesn’t work. But I could care less about who he has in his cabinet because the real change will come from Congress. Just be comfortable with the fact that Biden isn’t going to have a bunch of further left cabinet members and that’s okay because they’ll be infinitely more competent, less morally bankrupt and less corrupt than Trump’s cabinet. How many names from Obama’s cabinet even stood out?
The cabinet is very important, they often mold the way policy is implemented in the departments they run if not also be in a position to influence the policy altogether. Obama's cabinet was just a list of corporate executives and lobbyists that could have easily been a cabinet of a Republican administration.
I like your point that the energy should be focused on moving Biden further left if he wins. But I feel that too much of Progressive politics have been about trying to turn any Dems that don’t 100% align into the enemy and blowing up the system instead of fighting against Republicans and seizing opportunities to make Progressive gains where possible.
The centrists attack progressives as the enemy constantly and almost succeeded in completely removing them from the party yet when progressive fight back it's them who are the ones who are divisive. That is the playbook of centrist establishment dems and the media aligned with them because they both are supported by the corporate money that progressives don't take or align themselves with.
We'll take that as a tacit victory.