2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[PlayerUp]

We keep talking about this draft being weak but there are some very interesting players to watch and eventually pick,Poku is one of them.

Well, it is an enormously weak draft class. That cannot be stressed enough. We’ve known for a couple of years now how weak it was going to be, and honestly it’s weaker than was initially even thought

There are examples of people saying a draft is weak when it’s really not. 2019 was supposed to be a weak draft, but anyone who followed that class knew that it was extremely deep. Same with 2017 (2019 might even be stronger than ‘17). 2020 is just plain weak, there’s no getting around it. There’s some interesting prospects but overall, it’s just downright bad, especially considering 2021 is going to be one of the greatest drafts of all time

I’m aware that Howard isn’t projected, which is why we were saying on the previous page how criminal it’d be if he didn’t get taken. I definitely want the Bulls to take him with the 2nd. Markus Howard has one of the most glorious jumpers I have ever seen

Pokusevsky IMO is the most intriguing prospect in the class with the highest ceiling. Very very low floor, but if he stays healthy & keeps improving like he has been, the dude looks like a homeless person’s white Durant. His size is concerning though. We’ve never seen a 7’4 person succeed long term in the NBA, let alone a 7’4 person who plays point forward & will be handling the ball/pivoting constantly/etc. Seems like it’s a horrific injury waiting to happen, but according to his camp/coaches, he’s very strong & durable for someone so huge

But we can't compare this draft with 2000's ,I don't remember watching such a weak draft.

Experts including DraftExpress said the 2019 draft was very weak outside the Top 3. Turns out they were completely wrong and the 2019 draft was loaded. Nobody knows how strong this draft will be. Edwards/Ball/Wiseman could be huge picks that turn into stars later. We simply don't know and experts are often wrong.

[TheHrvReport]

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=tyrese-haliburton--shai-gilgeous-alexander

Very interesting college comparison between Haliburton and SGA. Similar size and draft age. Both pretty impactful players on their teams and both are defensive ball-hawks. The statistics are close but Haliburton edges him in almost every category except FTA rate where he is much better. Haliburton played in the superior conference (Big 12) and actually had a lower usage rate than SGA. He edged SGA in in PER, offensive win shares, offensive AND defensive rating, offensive and defensive BPM. Now i'm not really comparing their play styles but considering SGA was one of the biggest steals of his draft class, it could be a good reason to seriously consider Haliburton at #4 if AK believes he can have the same career trajectory in the league.

[MrFortune3]

That's what I am saying essentially. Wiseman should be able to at least have a role. LaMelo lack of defense/shooting could lead to diseaster could flame out and be a total bust.

Wiseman, Haliburton, Vassell, Okongwu all should be at least quality role players.

Wiseman at worst is going to be a very good rebounding big who can defend the rim and help your defense.
The question with him is how will his offensive game develop in the NBA. If he reaches his potential he's a 20-10 franchise player.
If he doesn't, he's Tyson Chandler. Either way it's a solid pick.

I'm fine if it is Wiseman as long as there is a follow up deal trading W. Carter.

There is likely not going to be any significant trades until near the deadline or next off-season. The team is going to go with what they have now and work on developing them. Wiseman would be an easier fit to slot in given his rebounding and defensive acumen. Still not the ideal situation though.

[PhilLeotardo]

Well, it is an enormously weak draft class. That cannot be stressed enough. We’ve known for a couple of years now how weak it was going to be, and honestly it’s weaker than was initially even thought

There are examples of people saying a draft is weak when it’s really not. 2019 was supposed to be a weak draft, but anyone who followed that class knew that it was extremely deep. Same with 2017 (2019 might even be stronger than ‘17). 2020 is just plain weak, there’s no getting around it. There’s some interesting prospects but overall, it’s just downright bad, especially considering 2021 is going to be one of the greatest drafts of all time

I’m aware that Howard isn’t projected, which is why we were saying on the previous page how criminal it’d be if he didn’t get taken. I definitely want the Bulls to take him with the 2nd. Markus Howard has one of the most glorious jumpers I have ever seen

Pokusevsky IMO is the most intriguing prospect in the class with the highest ceiling. Very very low floor, but if he stays healthy & keeps improving like he has been, the dude looks like a homeless person’s white Durant. His size is concerning though. We’ve never seen a 7’4 person succeed long term in the NBA, let alone a 7’4 person who plays point forward & will be handling the ball/pivoting constantly/etc. Seems like it’s a horrific injury waiting to happen, but according to his camp/coaches, he’s very strong & durable for someone so huge

But we can't compare this draft with 2000's ,I don't remember watching such a weak draft.

Experts including DraftExpress said the 2019 draft was very weak outside the Top 3. Turns out they were completely wrong and the 2019 draft was loaded. Nobody knows how strong this draft will be. Edwards/Ball/Wiseman could be huge picks that turn into stars later. We simply don't know and experts are often wrong.

That isn’t completely true. 2019 was viewed more as having lots of question marks & guys that underperformed. It was viewed as “might be weak, might be strong, lots of what ifs?” People who had followed it extremely closely knew just how strong & deep it was

That isn’t the case for 2020. This is just an outright really weak draft, and we’ve known how weak it was going to be since late 2018. There’s a reason no one is talking about it & people are already laser-focused on ‘21. Outside of Wiseman, we’ve seen most of these guys play, and it isn’t pretty. It doesn’t really come close to approaching the depth of ‘19. I’d wager Gafford would probably go #16-20 in this year’s draft. Possibly earlier

[PhilLeotardo]

We keep talking about this draft being weak but there are some very interesting players to watch and eventually pick,Poku is one of them.

Well, it is an enormously weak draft class. That cannot be stressed enough. We’ve known for a couple of years now how weak it was going to be, and honestly it’s weaker than was initially even thought

There are examples of people saying a draft is weak when it’s really not. 2019 was supposed to be a weak draft, but anyone who followed that class knew that it was extremely deep. Same with 2017 (2019 might even be stronger than ‘17). 2020 is just plain weak, there’s no getting around it. There’s some interesting prospects but overall, it’s just downright bad, especially considering 2021 is going to be one of the greatest drafts of all time

I’m aware that Howard isn’t projected, which is why we were saying on the previous page how criminal it’d be if he didn’t get taken. I definitely want the Bulls to take him with the 2nd. Markus Howard has one of the most glorious jumpers I have ever seen

Pokusevsky IMO is the most intriguing prospect in the class with the highest ceiling. Very very low floor, but if he stays healthy & keeps improving like he has been, the dude looks like a homeless person’s white Durant. His size is concerning though. We’ve never seen a 7’4 person succeed long term in the NBA, let alone a 7’4 person who plays point forward & will be handling the ball/pivoting constantly/etc. Seems like it’s a horrific injury waiting to happen, but according to his camp/coaches, he’s very strong & durable for someone so huge

But we can't compare this draft with 2000's ,I don't remember watching such a weak draft.

We will never see another draft as weak as 2000. There are simply too many prospects around the world & too many people who know how to play the game right at an extremely early age now via YouTube ie: being able to watch film wherever whenever

However, 2020 is definitely very weak. Shockingly not *that* far off from 2000. It’s definitely more 2000 than 2019, if that makes any sense

[MrFortune3]

Well, it is an enormously weak draft class. That cannot be stressed enough. We’ve known for a couple of years now how weak it was going to be, and honestly it’s weaker than was initially even thought

There are examples of people saying a draft is weak when it’s really not. 2019 was supposed to be a weak draft, but anyone who followed that class knew that it was extremely deep. Same with 2017 (2019 might even be stronger than ‘17). 2020 is just plain weak, there’s no getting around it. There’s some interesting prospects but overall, it’s just downright bad, especially considering 2021 is going to be one of the greatest drafts of all time

I’m aware that Howard isn’t projected, which is why we were saying on the previous page how criminal it’d be if he didn’t get taken. I definitely want the Bulls to take him with the 2nd. Markus Howard has one of the most glorious jumpers I have ever seen

Pokusevsky IMO is the most intriguing prospect in the class with the highest ceiling. Very very low floor, but if he stays healthy & keeps improving like he has been, the dude looks like a homeless person’s white Durant. His size is concerning though. We’ve never seen a 7’4 person succeed long term in the NBA, let alone a 7’4 person who plays point forward & will be handling the ball/pivoting constantly/etc. Seems like it’s a horrific injury waiting to happen, but according to his camp/coaches, he’s very strong & durable for someone so huge

But we can't compare this draft with 2000's ,I don't remember watching such a weak draft.

We will never see another draft as weak as 2000. There are simply too many prospects around the world & too many people who know how to play the game right at an extremely early age now via YouTube ie: being able to watch film wherever whenever

However, 2020 is definitely very weak. Shockingly not *that* far off from 2000. It’s definitely more 2000 than 2019, if that makes any sense

2020 isn't weak, there are just question marks on who will be the top talent. 2000 was legit weak a ****. Like it was terrible from a prospect perspective. Chris Mihm was a top prospect...

[PlayerUp]

That isn’t the case for 2020. This is just an outright really weak draft, and we’ve known how weak it was going to be since late 2018. There’s a reason no one is talking about it & people are already laser-focused on ‘21. Outside of Wiseman, we’ve seen most of these guys play, and it isn’t pretty. It doesn’t really come close to approaching the depth of ‘19. I’d wager Gafford would probably go #16-20 in this year’s draft. Possibly earlier

You're entitled to your opinion but your opinions aren't facts. Reality is nobody knows and you're only making assumptions. Nobody knows how this draft will turn out in the end. There is talent in this draft but no doubt Zion/Morant/RJ coming out of college look like far superior prospects than Edwards/Ball/Wiseman.

Picks 4-60 in this 2020 draft may actually turn out to be better than picks 4-60 in the 2019 draft.

[PlayerUp]

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=tyrese-haliburton--shai-gilgeous-alexander

Very interesting college comparison between Haliburton and SGA. Similar size and draft age. Both pretty impactful players on their teams and both are defensive ball-hawks. The statistics are close but Haliburton edges him in almost every category except FTA rate where he is much better. Haliburton played in the superior conference (Big 12) and actually had a lower usage rate than SGA. He edged SGA in in PER, offensive win shares, offensive AND defensive rating, offensive and defensive BPM. Now i'm not really comparing their play styles but considering SGA was one of the biggest steals of his draft class, it could be a good reason to seriously consider Haliburton at #4 if AK believes he can have the same career trajectory in the league.

This is why I have been saying we're approaching this draft wrong here and I think the BPA are the ones who are slightly older.

Unlike LaMelo and Hayes, Haliburton actually consistently performed well statistically. The picks at the top have higher ceilings but only higher ceilings because they're younger.

Haliburton is the superior point guard at this time over LaMelo Ball and Killian Hayes

- High IQ
- He can shoot the 3 consistently
- He is fairly athletic
- Good playmaker
- Good rebounder
- Good versatility
- Good TS%, PER, Offensive Rating, Defensive Rating

The issue with him is his physical profile, footwork and ugly shooting form.

I think overall we're approaching this draft the wrong way. We're looking at prospects like Ball, Hayes, Deni which all have red flags and prospects like Haliburton, Vassell, Okongwu, Lewis Jr are being overlooked.

[Leslie Forman]

Experts including DraftExpress said the 2019 draft was very weak outside the Top 3. Turns out they were completely wrong and the 2019 draft was loaded.

It is?

For all we know, Clarke/Herro/Hachimura/White, etc. won't be any better than Redd/Turkoglu/Crawford/Miller…

[PlayerUp]

Experts including DraftExpress said the 2019 draft was very weak outside the Top 3. Turns out they were completely wrong and the 2019 draft was loaded.

It is?

For all we know, Clarke/Herro/Hachimura/White, etc. won't be any better than Redd/Turkoglu/Crawford/Miller…

It's been 3/4 of a season to judge these prospects and they all look far more promising than 2019. Also you're missing the bulk of 2019 prospects.

PJ Washington
Cameron Johnson
Cam Reddish
Darius Garland
DeAndre Hunter
+ others

2019 draft has alot of talent.

[SfBull]

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=tyrese-haliburton--shai-gilgeous-alexander

Very interesting college comparison between Haliburton and SGA. Similar size and draft age. Both pretty impactful players on their teams and both are defensive ball-hawks. The statistics are close but Haliburton edges him in almost every category except FTA rate where he is much better. Haliburton played in the superior conference (Big 12) and actually had a lower usage rate than SGA. He edged SGA in in PER, offensive win shares, offensive AND defensive rating, offensive and defensive BPM. Now i'm not really comparing their play styles but considering SGA was one of the biggest steals of his draft class, it could be a good reason to seriously consider Haliburton at #4 if AK believes he can have the same career trajectory in the league.

This is why I have been saying we're approaching this draft wrong here and I think the BPA are the ones who are slightly older.

Unlike LaMelo and Hayes, Haliburton actually consistently performed well statistically. The picks at the top have higher ceilings but only higher ceilings because they're younger.

Haliburton is the superior point guard at this time over LaMelo Ball and Killian Hayes

- High IQ
- He can shoot the 3 consistently
- He is fairly athletic
- Good playmaker
- Good rebounder
- Good versatility
- Good TS%, PER, Offensive Rating, Defensive Rating

The issue with him is his physical profile, footwork and ugly shooting form.

I think overall we're approaching this draft the wrong way. We're looking at prospects like Ball, Hayes, Deni which all have red flags and prospects like Haliburton, Vassell, Okongwu, Lewis Jr are being overlooked.

We don't know how AKME are approaching this draft and it's good.

[SfBull]

Experts including DraftExpress said the 2019 draft was very weak outside the Top 3. Turns out they were completely wrong and the 2019 draft was loaded.

It is?

For all we know, Clarke/Herro/Hachimura/White, etc. won't be any better than Redd/Turkoglu/Crawford/Miller…

Not really sure about your assumption,the players you listed just ended their first season and perhaps excepting Turkoglu the others were good role players which is a reasonable expectation for the players drafted in 2019.

[The Force.]

I think it might be worth trading back for Haliburton, or even selecting him 4th overall. He is the closest thing to a basketball savant we've seen since Luka and those advanced stats project very favorably to the NBA. Guys with his IQ and skillset simply don't come around very often and I think you take the flyer on him regardless of his physical profile.

[Leslie Forman]

It's been 3/4 of a season to judge these prospects and they all look far more promising than 2019. Also you're missing the bulk of 2019 prospects.

PJ Washington
Cameron Johnson
Cam Reddish
Darius Garland
DeAndre Hunter
+ others

2019 draft has alot of talent.

These guys haven't actually done sh*t yet. You put Darius Garland, who I actually like, up there as if he wasn't just complete and total ass all season. I hyped up Hunter before the draft and he has been disappointing too. There is nothing that so far that suggests that these guys are anything more than a Jamaal Magloire or Morris Peterson level guy.

I do think this should end up being better than the 2000 draft outside of the top 3 guys, it would really be impossible not to be, but it is frankly not based on what they've actually done yet. We have really not seen a damn thing yet to be making such declarative statements this early. You take out Zion and Ja, and the ROTY is freaking Kendrick Nunn.

[kodo]

Haberstroh thinks AK will move up.
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/nba-draft-2020-haberstroh-expects-bulls-pursue-trading-no-1-or-2

“I think [Karnišovas] might move up, because I think No. 1 with Minnesota and No. 2 (with Golden State) is going to be readily available,” Haberstroh said. “I would be surprised if you didn’t see Charlotte (at No. 3) or Chicago move up in the draft.”

A move up would be a risk, but if made by Karnišovas, you can bet it’ll be a calculated one. It could just be a matter of the price — and if there’s a prospect near the top that catches his eye.

“What is Chicago willing to give up to move up in the draft? If they have a guy that they really want and they don’t want to risk losing that player at No. 4? I don’t know what they’re willing to give up,” Haberstroh said. “But I do think that it wouldn’t be out of the realm, I wouldn’t be surprised if Artūras made a big splash on draft night and got a player that he really, really covets and values.

Even if Karnišovas stays put, his track record from his days in the Denver Nuggets’ front office gives reason to believe he can find the right player for the Bulls.

“[Karnišovas] is also a guy who came from a Denver organization that found gems later in the draft. So maybe he’s not as dead set on moving up in the draft, you almost think maybe he realizes I could get a lot of talent by sitting back,” Haberstroh added. “But I do think there’s gonna be a lot of trades on draft night. People are gonna be itchy to make deals after being silent for so long.

“I don’t know who the right fit is at No. 4 (for the Bulls), but I do think you need some defensive-minded guys for Billy Donovan. And whether that’s you get that in free agency or you get that in trades, I’m not sure, but I do think they need a defensive-minded guy to complement Coby White. If he is truly the franchise going forward, I do think you need a more defensive focus guy.”

I don't know where Haberstroh got the idea this franchise is building around White...my goals for him are to be an NBA starter level guy, not a franchise player.

[SfBull]

It's been 3/4 of a season to judge these prospects and they all look far more promising than 2019. Also you're missing the bulk of 2019 prospects.

PJ Washington
Cameron Johnson
Cam Reddish
Darius Garland
DeAndre Hunter
+ others

2019 draft has alot of talent.

These guys haven't actually done sh*t yet. You put Darius Garland, who I actually like, up there as if he wasn't just complete and total ass all season. I hyped up Hunter before the draft and he has been disappointing too. There is nothing that so far that suggests that these guys are anything more than a Jamaal Magloire or Morris Peterson level guy.

I do think this should end up being better than the 2000 draft outside of the top 3 guys, it would really be impossible not to be, but it is frankly not based on what they've actually done yet. We have really not seen a damn thing yet to be making such declarative statements this early. You take out Zion and Ja, and the ROTY is freaking Kendrick Nunn.

You know it's way too early for saying that about these players ,they didn't even have a whole regular season for a better evaluation so it's an open case for me , they'll can be better or not , we'll see.

[SfBull]

Haberstroh thinks AK will move up.
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/nba-draft-2020-haberstroh-expects-bulls-pursue-trading-no-1-or-2

“I think [Karnišovas] might move up, because I think No. 1 with Minnesota and No. 2 (with Golden State) is going to be readily available,” Haberstroh said. “I would be surprised if you didn’t see Charlotte (at No. 3) or Chicago move up in the draft.”

A move up would be a risk, but if made by Karnišovas, you can bet it’ll be a calculated one. It could just be a matter of the price — and if there’s a prospect near the top that catches his eye.

“What is Chicago willing to give up to move up in the draft? If they have a guy that they really want and they don’t want to risk losing that player at No. 4? I don’t know what they’re willing to give up,” Haberstroh said. “But I do think that it wouldn’t be out of the realm, I wouldn’t be surprised if Artūras made a big splash on draft night and got a player that he really, really covets and values.

Even if Karnišovas stays put, his track record from his days in the Denver Nuggets’ front office gives reason to believe he can find the right player for the Bulls.

“[Karnišovas] is also a guy who came from a Denver organization that found gems later in the draft. So maybe he’s not as dead set on moving up in the draft, you almost think maybe he realizes I could get a lot of talent by sitting back,” Haberstroh added. “But I do think there’s gonna be a lot of trades on draft night. People are gonna be itchy to make deals after being silent for so long.

“I don’t know who the right fit is at No. 4 (for the Bulls), but I do think you need some defensive-minded guys for Billy Donovan. And whether that’s you get that in free agency or you get that in trades, I’m not sure, but I do think they need a defensive-minded guy to complement Coby White. If he is truly the franchise going forward, I do think you need a more defensive focus guy.”

I don't know where Haberstroh got the idea this franchise is building around White...my goals for him are to be an NBA starter level guy, not a franchise player.

The best part of this text is about the Bulls possibly trading up but for AK's previous results the best strategy could be trading down looking for sleepers.

[Ccwatercraft]

But we can't compare this draft with 2000's ,I don't remember watching such a weak draft.

We will never see another draft as weak as 2000. There are simply too many prospects around the world & too many people who know how to play the game right at an extremely early age now via YouTube ie: being able to watch film wherever whenever

However, 2020 is definitely very weak. Shockingly not *that* far off from 2000. It’s definitely more 2000 than 2019, if that makes any sense

2020 isn't weak, there are just question marks on who will be the top talent. 2000 was legit weak a ****. Like it was terrible from a prospect perspective. Chris Mihm was a top prospect...

Have to agree.

2020 is a crapshoot with no brand names. But it's way too early to say weak. Weak on data for sure, but weak on talent hasnt been established.

[PhilLeotardo]

But we can't compare this draft with 2000's ,I don't remember watching such a weak draft.

We will never see another draft as weak as 2000. There are simply too many prospects around the world & too many people who know how to play the game right at an extremely early age now via YouTube ie: being able to watch film wherever whenever

However, 2020 is definitely very weak. Shockingly not *that* far off from 2000. It’s definitely more 2000 than 2019, if that makes any sense

2020 isn't weak, there are just question marks on who will be the top talent. 2000 was legit weak a ****. Like it was terrible from a prospect perspective. Chris Mihm was a top prospect...

2020 is extremely weak. I get that fans of teams with top 5 picks are trying to hype themselves up as much as possible, but this draft is very unimpressive, especially considering that ‘21 is only a year away, and several teams (The Bulls included) picking top 10 this year probably won’t be in play to pick top 10 next year, which really stings

There is still some value to be found, and I’m sure AKEVS will milk it for all it’s worth, but this draft just sucks: it lacks athletes, it lacks shooters, it lacks good sized distributors, it lacks wings, it lacks depth, it lacks pretty much everything, and one of the top 5 picks hasn’t even played basketball & is a complete question mark. It’s notable for having a decent crop of PG talent, but outside of that, it doesn’t have much going for it. And once you get past the top 20, it starts to get particularly grim

[PlayerUp]

It's been 3/4 of a season to judge these prospects and they all look far more promising than 2019. Also you're missing the bulk of 2019 prospects.

PJ Washington
Cameron Johnson
Cam Reddish
Darius Garland
DeAndre Hunter
+ others

2019 draft has alot of talent.

These guys haven't actually done sh*t yet. You put Darius Garland, who I actually like, up there as if he wasn't just complete and total ass all season. I hyped up Hunter before the draft and he has been disappointing too. There is nothing that so far that suggests that these guys are anything more than a Jamaal Magloire or Morris Peterson level guy.

I do think this should end up being better than the 2000 draft outside of the top 3 guys, it would really be impossible not to be, but it is frankly not based on what they've actually done yet. We have really not seen a damn thing yet to be making such declarative statements this early. You take out Zion and Ja, and the ROTY is freaking Kendrick Nunn.

You know it's way too early for saying that about these players ,they didn't even have a whole regular season for a better evaluation so it's an open case for me , they'll can be better or not , we'll see.

See above. Not worth talking about this.