2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[PlayerUp]

Some Trade Scenarios Previously Discussed On RealGM Trades Page Proposed By Other Teams

#4 for #8 + #27 + Mavs Heavily Protected 2023 1st Rd Pick
Otto Porter for #18 + #31 + Hardaway + Wright
Sato for #21 + Scott + Zhaire - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2008479

Bulls can probably position themselves here if done right to nab 2 picks at #4 to #27 if they make some creative moves.

Why would the Mavs give up that much for OPJ? But yes please, let them do it. I would also definitely do the Sixers deal but don't see why they would.

The first Mavs deal is tough. Some of my favorite prospects (Hayes, Vassell, Kong for example) could still be there at 8, but it's hard to do that deal without knowing how the draft will go. Just too much uncertainty for me.

I couldn't find the OG thread but there are alot of discussions / other trade proposals involving Otto

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2000868
viewtopic.php?t=1992720
viewtopic.php?t=1991628
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comments/imdilx/trade_idea_otto_porter_jr_for_tim_hadaway_jr_and/

[PlayerUp]

Which is why it maybe wiser to go the safer route and go with prospects who played well during the NCAA season.

Tyrese Haliburton
Onyeka Okongwu
Devin Vassell
James Wiseman (if he drops)

Wiseman played one relevant college game. Putting him on this list feels terribly wrong.

Odds of him dropping to #4 anyway? I'd say less than 20%.

Other 3 should be available.

[Andi Obst]

Odds of him dropping to #4 anyway? I'd say less than 20%.

I'd go a little higher than 20%, but would agree that it's rather unlikely. Just felt like he didn't belong on the list, that's all.

[MrFortune3]

2020 is extremely weak. I get that fans of teams with top 5 picks are trying to hype themselves up as much as possible, but this draft is very unimpressive, especially considering that ‘21 is only a year away, and several teams (The Bulls included) picking top 10 this year probably won’t be in play to pick top 10 next year, which really stings

There is still some value to be found, and I’m sure AKEVS will milk it for all it’s worth, but this draft just sucks: it lacks athletes, it lacks shooters, it lacks good sized distributors, it lacks wings, it lacks depth, it lacks pretty much everything, and one of the top 5 picks hasn’t even played basketball & is a complete question mark. It’s notable for having a decent crop of PG talent, but outside of that, it doesn’t have much going for it. And once you get past the top 20, it starts to get particularly grim

Literally, every time people say that, 3+ franchise players and multiple solid or better players come out of the draft. Same as most years.
This is not a weak draft, fans just want ready made franchise player with years of hype and no work having to be put in.

This really is the most unpredictable draft we've ever had. Guys who typically would have seen their draft stock shoot up after a strong tournament showing, never got that chance. I personally felt like this draft was weak before the pandemic hit, but now I'm even more worried about these guys' development considering a ton of them probably haven't gotten the training, attention, and experience they would have in a normal year. If anything, this is probably the draft to have mid to late first-round picks, as you're more likely to pick up someone who just didn't have a chance to get their stock going (Cole Anthony and Nico Manion come to mind).

This is the draft to strike at the top and then move back into 1st and grab another talented player so you get a extremely high pick and a flier guy you want to develop. Let other teams falter with that line of thinking and get multiple impact players while they cry “weak draft”

[MrFortune3]

I really like Markannan and want him to have a bounce back year. But I think if the bulls were to draft either Wiseman or Toppin it’s a decent chance they would bust his ass in training camp.

It doesn't matter what happens in training camp. You prove your worth in actual NBA games.

That said, Lauris offense is far too valuable anyway for him to lose any PT to a rookie, of all people. It's much more likely that Toppin (supposing he can actually hack it in the NBA, which is not a given) would eventually surpass Wendell in the rotation. You see... Obi can actually shoot.

You think that Donovan is going to play Obi Toppin over WCJ after having Adams in OKC. More to the point, you think Donovan is going to run Lauri and Obi on the court...together...

[LateNight]

I really like Markannan and want him to have a bounce back year. But I think if the bulls were to draft either Wiseman or Toppin it’s a decent chance they would bust his ass in training camp.

It doesn't matter what happens in training camp. You prove your worth in actual NBA games.

That said, Lauris offense is far too valuable anyway for him to lose any PT to a rookie, of all people. It's much more likely that Toppin (supposing he can actually hack it in the NBA, which is not a given) would eventually surpass Wendell in the rotation. You see... Obi can actually shoot.

You think that Donovan is going to play Obi Toppin over WCJ after having Adams in OKC. More to the point, you think Donovan is going to run Lauri and Obi on the court...together...

"Can't play Kanter Lauri / Obi"


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2704173-okc-coach-billy-donovan-appears-to-say-cant-play-kanter-on-bench-vs-rockets

[kodo]

Billy has always been a defensive guy even back to Florida. And even though his current squad is smallball with 3 PGs, he still wasn't willing to go small at center and still played Adams with the 3 PGs.

I don't think he'd play a Toppin / Markkanen big lineup. Even if Wendell is hurt, he'll still start Gafford IMO. Even guys who looked like washouts like Nerlens Noel got pretty major minutes under Donovan.

Donovan's tendency to play guys like Dort, Roberson, and Jerami Grant also makes me think he'll play with a perimeter defender getting big minutes as well. Dunn, Shaq, or Hutch might see more minutes than people want.

[SfBull]

Haberstroh thinks AK will move up.
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/nba-draft-2020-haberstroh-expects-bulls-pursue-trading-no-1-or-2

“I think [Karnišovas] might move up, because I think No. 1 with Minnesota and No. 2 (with Golden State) is going to be readily available,” Haberstroh said. “I would be surprised if you didn’t see Charlotte (at No. 3) or Chicago move up in the draft.”

A move up would be a risk, but if made by Karnišovas, you can bet it’ll be a calculated one. It could just be a matter of the price — and if there’s a prospect near the top that catches his eye.

“What is Chicago willing to give up to move up in the draft? If they have a guy that they really want and they don’t want to risk losing that player at No. 4? I don’t know what they’re willing to give up,” Haberstroh said. “But I do think that it wouldn’t be out of the realm, I wouldn’t be surprised if Artūras made a big splash on draft night and got a player that he really, really covets and values.

Even if Karnišovas stays put, his track record from his days in the Denver Nuggets’ front office gives reason to believe he can find the right player for the Bulls.

“[Karnišovas] is also a guy who came from a Denver organization that found gems later in the draft. So maybe he’s not as dead set on moving up in the draft, you almost think maybe he realizes I could get a lot of talent by sitting back,” Haberstroh added. “But I do think there’s gonna be a lot of trades on draft night. People are gonna be itchy to make deals after being silent for so long.

“I don’t know who the right fit is at No. 4 (for the Bulls), but I do think you need some defensive-minded guys for Billy Donovan. And whether that’s you get that in free agency or you get that in trades, I’m not sure, but I do think they need a defensive-minded guy to complement Coby White. If he is truly the franchise going forward, I do think you need a more defensive focus guy.”

I don't know where Haberstroh got the idea this franchise is building around White...my goals for him are to be an NBA starter level guy, not a franchise player.

It's weird, isn't it? At this point, I think most of these guys didn't really even watch Bulls basketball last season. They checked White's torrid late season stats and decided that he obviously looks like a franchise building block.

Never mind that he's an athletically challenged bomber with no conscience or playmaking ability whatsoever. In another team, Coby wold've been the 3rd guy off the bench.

That's it.I really can't understand how someone can believe in building a team around Coby.Not with the play he showed in his rookie season.We don't know if he'll improve ( or regress) under Donovan.Who knows?Maybe we got another MIP, Jimmy Butler type of player and we don't know yet.
But talking about it now is just an exaggeration for me.

[SfBull]

2020 is extremely weak. I get that fans of teams with top 5 picks are trying to hype themselves up as much as possible, but this draft is very unimpressive, especially considering that ‘21 is only a year away, and several teams (The Bulls included) picking top 10 this year probably won’t be in play to pick top 10 next year, which really stings

There is still some value to be found, and I’m sure AKEVS will milk it for all it’s worth, but this draft just sucks: it lacks athletes, it lacks shooters, it lacks good sized distributors, it lacks wings, it lacks depth, it lacks pretty much everything, and one of the top 5 picks hasn’t even played basketball & is a complete question mark. It’s notable for having a decent crop of PG talent, but outside of that, it doesn’t have much going for it. And once you get past the top 20, it starts to get particularly grim

Literally, every time people say that, 3+ franchise players and multiple solid or better players come out of the draft. Same as most years.
This is not a weak draft, fans just want ready made franchise player with years of hype and no work having to be put in.

This really is the most unpredictable draft we've ever had. Guys who typically would have seen their draft stock shoot up after a strong tournament showing, never got that chance. I personally felt like this draft was weak before the pandemic hit, but now I'm even more worried about these guys' development considering a ton of them probably haven't gotten the training, attention, and experience they would have in a normal year. If anything, this is probably the draft to have mid to late first-round picks, as you're more likely to pick up someone who just didn't have a chance to get their stock going (Cole Anthony and Nico Manion come to mind).

Which is why the I consider these rumours about AK trading up very strange , it's more likely he'll try to trade down looking for sleepers.

[SfBull]

Some Trade Scenarios Previously Discussed On RealGM Trades Page Proposed By Other Teams

#4 for #8 + #27 + Mavs Heavily Protected 2023 1st Rd Pick
Otto Porter for #18 + #31 + Hardaway + Wright
Sato for #21 + Scott + Zhaire - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2008479

Bulls can probably position themselves here if done right to nab 2 picks at #4 to #27 if they make some creative moves.

All these trade proposals are very good for me , hopefully AK won't be conservative like GarPax when making trades.

[SfBull]

Billy has always been a defensive guy even back to Florida. And even though his current squad is smallball with 3 PGs, he still wasn't willing to go small at center and still played Adams with the 3 PGs.

I don't think he'd play a Toppin / Markkanen big lineup. Even if Wendell is hurt, he'll still start Gafford IMO. Even guys who looked like washouts like Nerlens Noel got pretty major minutes under Donovan.

Donovan's tendency to play guys like Dort, Roberson, and Jerami Grant also makes me think he'll play with a perimeter defender getting big minutes as well. Dunn, Shaq, or Hutch might see more minutes than people want.

People are discarding Dunn too early,he may be around at the beginning of next season.

[Almost Retired]

In an ideal world you would like to trade down and move the #4 for #8 and another first rounder between #15 and #20. But there is no potential trade partner that can give us that. So we might as well stick with the 4th pick. And I'd like to see that pick used on a wing. Depending on the workouts I'd be happy with Deni or Vassel.

It depends on what AK sees in both. Vassel would fit the defensive guy Donovan might favor, without being a total stiff on offense. But there is also the possibility that Deni shoots well in workouts, and shows some promise that he can learn to play at least average defense while giving us a tall, creative playmaker. Deni is more of a risk, but has a higher ceiling. I've heard he's a really hard worker.

Vassel would be a safer pick. Watching his defensive awareness, his BB IQ, his tenacity on defense, his instinctive switching...I don't think he could be a bust (barring injury). I think at the very least you'll have a starter at SF by his 2nd year. When you have a potential backcourt of Coby and Zach that could conceivably average close to 40 points a game you don't need as much offense from your SF. But you definitely need a good defender, but one that isn't a complete black hole. Vassel isn't a great shooter but with enough reps and coaching he could become a better than average shooter. It's a tough call between these 2 guys for me.

[sco]

Some Trade Scenarios Previously Discussed On RealGM Trades Page Proposed By Other Teams

#4 for #8 + #27 + Mavs Heavily Protected 2023 1st Rd Pick
Otto Porter for #18 + #31 + Hardaway + Wright
Sato for #21 + Scott + Zhaire - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2008479

Bulls can probably position themselves here if done right to nab 2 picks at #4 to #27 if they make some creative moves.

Why would the Mavs give up that much for OPJ? But yes please, let them do it. I would also definitely do the Sixers deal but don't see why they would.

The first Mavs deal is tough. Some of my favorite prospects (Hayes, Vassell, Kong for example) could still be there at 8, but it's hard to do that deal without knowing how the draft will go. Just too much uncertainty for me.

I'd do any of those deals. I like Porter, but if the FO aren't seeing him as a good future piece, might as well recoup some value. The guy I'd really love to pry from Dallas is Brunson.

[sco]

Billy has always been a defensive guy even back to Florida. And even though his current squad is smallball with 3 PGs, he still wasn't willing to go small at center and still played Adams with the 3 PGs.

I don't think he'd play a Toppin / Markkanen big lineup. Even if Wendell is hurt, he'll still start Gafford IMO. Even guys who looked like washouts like Nerlens Noel got pretty major minutes under Donovan.

Donovan's tendency to play guys like Dort, Roberson, and Jerami Grant also makes me think he'll play with a perimeter defender getting big minutes as well. Dunn, Shaq, or Hutch might see more minutes than people want.

People are discarding Dunn too early,he may be around at the beginning of next season.

Oof - the thought of Dunn is a real kick in the groin.

[StunnerKO]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[The Chosen one]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Not good. I want Obi Toppin.

[PlayerUp]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Not good. I want Obi Toppin.

Yes well you're in the minority as dominating a weak conference in NCAA basketball does not mean you'll be dominate in the NBA. He's a poor mans college basketball version of Derrick Williams. In the NBA, you need players that have specific skillsets which perform well in the NBA.

[Grodoboldo]

Ricky O'Donnell mentioned this podcast about the draft (Prep2Pro), I checked it out and really liked it.

https://pca.st/podcast/f16a41a0-4f2f-0138-9794-0acc26574db2

[SfBull]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Not good. I want Obi Toppin.

I don't want him, don't waste our pick in another PF, better going with Lauri for another season drafting a SG , SF or even a point .

[NecessaryEvil]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Not good. I want Obi Toppin.

Yes well you're in the minority as dominating a weak conference in NCAA basketball does not mean you'll be dominate in the NBA. He's a poor mans college basketball version of Derrick Williams. In the NBA, you need players that have specific skillsets which perform well in the NBA.

It doesn't mean you WON'T be either.