Off-season News

[JonFromVA]

We need someone in charge that Dan won't just use as a tool. Given his health situation he might even accept that.

[Revenged25]

So you want to sign the GM who traded for an old CP3, signed him to a giant contract when he was even older, turned around and sold the farm to swap him for Westbrook, who is on an even worst contract and didn't fit with Harden, a year later, and when that didn't work, and the organization was beyond repair, stepped down?

That's going to be a hard pass from me. I can't even name the last good player Morey drafted.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

He built winners ... Koby? .. 19 wins 2 years straight, 3 coaches, couldn't even fire Longabardi.

All things relative I'm thinking ...

Wasn't Koby the GM in LBJ's last year? When LBJ left, the Cavs were an old team whose window had closed. You can argue that he should've taken Mikal Bridges over Sexton but I'm not terribly impressed with anyone taken after Garland. Maybe PJ Washington?

But KPJ looks like a steal at 30 and Windler is the most sought after player on the roster. He's also done a solid job trading players who had no future here for picks and extending guys like Nance and Cedi to reasonable deals. He overpaid Love but losing all three of you big three in 12 months would've been a tough pill to swallow.

I kind of like the shape we're in with $40M in expiring contracts heading into a big FA summer.

In terms of coaches, can you say for sure that Altman extended Lue and hired Beilein? Because if I had to guess that was Gilbert.

If there was one thing that you can really question, it was the Kyrie trade and whether he should've told Ainge to put Tatum on the table rather than the Brooklyn pick or get out. But that was a pretty difficult scenario to negotiate a trade under. I find it curious that theres been no report as to what the second best offer was.

I think he's done a pretty solid job.

Morey won one trade, he won it big, and has taken Ls since. He left his team with a second mortgage in terms of draft capital owed and no cap space whatsoever.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

If you are questioning who should've been taken over Sexton I don't think Mikal Bridges is even the right question. He's solid, but he's nothing more than a good defender and efficient scorer. The real debates would be MPJ, though his injury concern was too great for a lot of teams to even consider though he's looking good now after 2 years of not playing to recover, and SGA who was a very good two-way player next to CP3 and would've been a more natural fit next to Garland than Sexton is but who knows if we go with the same pick if we had SGA instead.

In regards to Garland, there were several players that I liked that went after him who performed about the same level as Garland, while I know others were high on players like Herro. I didn't hate the idea of Cam Reddish as I thought he had a lot of untapped potential, I like the very high upside of Sekou as well, but I would've wanted to trade down for him.

[jbk1234]

We need someone in charge that Dan won't just use as a tool. Given his health situation he might even accept that.

I think as Altman grows into the job, and earns Dan's trust if he continues to make good decisions (or better yet just stays away from really, really bad ones) that could be him. In any event, I think Morey without any restraints could be disaster pants.

[JonFromVA]

We need someone in charge that Dan won't just use as a tool. Given his health situation he might even accept that.

I think as Altman grows into the job, and earns Dan's trust if he continues to make good decisions (or better yet just stays away from really, really bad ones) that could be him. In any event, I think Morey without any restraints could be disaster pants.

Well, if history means anything, as soon as Altman starts to prove himself, Gilbert will be uninterested in paying him or will over-rule him on a decision causing him to walk.

If Dan has truly stepped back from the team and his other businesses due to his stroke (and other family members don't meddle), we may be in new territory.

A slow rebuild is one way to go. It takes a lot of draft smarts, time, and player development to pull off and then probably some smart trades to put a bow on the roster.

Morey would present another option ... wheeling & dealing to turn what we've got in to something that can win and keep winning.

[jbk1234]

We need someone in charge that Dan won't just use as a tool. Given his health situation he might even accept that.

I think as Altman grows into the job, and earns Dan's trust if he continues to make good decisions (or better yet just stays away from really, really bad ones) that could be him. In any event, I think Morey without any restraints could be disaster pants.

Well, if history means anything, as soon as Altman starts to prove himself, Gilbert will be uninterested in paying him or will over-rule him on a decision causing him to walk.

If Dan has truly stepped back from the team and his other businesses due to his stroke (and other family members don't meddle), we may be in new territory.

A slow rebuild is one way to go. It takes a lot of draft smarts, time, and player development to pull off and then probably some smart trades to put a bow on the roster.

Morey would present another option ... wheeling & dealing to turn what we've got in to something that can win and keep winning.

My default position remains that the first half of this season needs to be an evaluation period. How does the team perform under Bickerstaff? Is Sexton a cornerstone or a sixth man? Is Garland a starting caliber PG in the NBA? How do KPJ and Windler look in their second and first seasons? How does the guy we pick at No. 5 look?

If after the first half of this season, you're not getting the types of answers you hoped for from those questions, then you can start putting picks and players on the table. But you don't want to be the Magic where the best players you drafted end up traded elsewhere on rookie contracts and play really well for other teams.

[Stillwater]

We need someone in charge that Dan won't just use as a tool. Given his health situation he might even accept that.

I think as Altman grows into the job, and earns Dan's trust if he continues to make good decisions (or better yet just stays away from really, really bad ones) that could be him. In any event, I think Morey without any restraints could be disaster pants.

Well, if history means anything, as soon as Altman starts to prove himself, Gilbert will be uninterested in paying him or will over-rule him on a decision causing him to walk.

If Dan has truly stepped back from the team and his other businesses due to his stroke (and other family members don't meddle), we may be in new territory.

A slow rebuild is one way to go. It takes a lot of draft smarts, time, and player development to pull off and then probably some smart trades to put a bow on the roster.

Morey would present another option ... wheeling & dealing to turn what we've got in to something that can win and keep winning.

warm weather state with no tax in Houston yet had to trade for good players to go there,he pushed it all to the middle when he traded for Westbrook and he is now stumbling out the door half clothed and punch drunk. His China comments were not appreciated by his owner either and so that factors in as well... but he really has not done anything besides go big and fail.
If anything that mindset with this roster would not be attractive to him anyway. He is far more likely to be interested in a org with a lot of draft capital that he can trade away

[JonFromVA]

I think as Altman grows into the job, and earns Dan's trust if he continues to make good decisions (or better yet just stays away from really, really bad ones) that could be him. In any event, I think Morey without any restraints could be disaster pants.

Well, if history means anything, as soon as Altman starts to prove himself, Gilbert will be uninterested in paying him or will over-rule him on a decision causing him to walk.

If Dan has truly stepped back from the team and his other businesses due to his stroke (and other family members don't meddle), we may be in new territory.

A slow rebuild is one way to go. It takes a lot of draft smarts, time, and player development to pull off and then probably some smart trades to put a bow on the roster.

Morey would present another option ... wheeling & dealing to turn what we've got in to something that can win and keep winning.

warm weather state with no tax in Houston yet had to trade for good players to go there,he pushed it all to the middle when he traded for Westbrook and he is now stumbling out the door half clothed and punch drunk. His China comments were not appreciated by his owner either and so that factors in as well... but he really has not done anything besides go big and fail.
If anything that mindset with this roster would not be attractive to him anyway. He is far more likely to be interested in a org with a lot of draft capital that he can trade away

I don't think the Westbrook trade was his choice and all the assets he had to dump to get it done is likely a big part of why he's out the door. The Rockets still won the equivalent of 50 games if this was a full season. So, "fail" is a relative term for a team picking 5 in the lottery 2 years straight.

Anyway, I'm not a Morey proponent, just noting an opportunity that will likely pass the Cavs by and why they may regret that decision. You guys are covering the why we may not side, well.

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

Hi guys, did Andre Drummond exercise his PO?

[gflem]

Hi guys, did Andre Drummond exercise his PO?

He stated he would publicly, and he would be foolish not to. But no not yet.

[Stillwater]

Well, if history means anything, as soon as Altman starts to prove himself, Gilbert will be uninterested in paying him or will over-rule him on a decision causing him to walk.

If Dan has truly stepped back from the team and his other businesses due to his stroke (and other family members don't meddle), we may be in new territory.

A slow rebuild is one way to go. It takes a lot of draft smarts, time, and player development to pull off and then probably some smart trades to put a bow on the roster.

Morey would present another option ... wheeling & dealing to turn what we've got in to something that can win and keep winning.

warm weather state with no tax in Houston yet had to trade for good players to go there,he pushed it all to the middle when he traded for Westbrook and he is now stumbling out the door half clothed and punch drunk. His China comments were not appreciated by his owner either and so that factors in as well... but he really has not done anything besides go big and fail.
If anything that mindset with this roster would not be attractive to him anyway. He is far more likely to be interested in a org with a lot of draft capital that he can trade away

I don't think the Westbrook trade was his choice and all the assets he had to dump to get it done is likely a big part of why he's out the door. The Rockets still won the equivalent of 50 games if this was a full season. So, "fail" is a relative term for a team picking 5 in the lottery 2 years straight.

Anyway, I'm not a Morey proponent, just noting an opportunity that will likely pass the Cavs by and why they may regret that decision. You guys are covering the why we may not side, well.

imo whenever you put all your eggs in one basket which he did and you consistently come up short regardless of win totals in a meaningless reg season...it is a fail esp when the teams you assemble are are not complimentary

[JonFromVA]

warm weather state with no tax in Houston yet had to trade for good players to go there,he pushed it all to the middle when he traded for Westbrook and he is now stumbling out the door half clothed and punch drunk. His China comments were not appreciated by his owner either and so that factors in as well... but he really has not done anything besides go big and fail.
If anything that mindset with this roster would not be attractive to him anyway. He is far more likely to be interested in a org with a lot of draft capital that he can trade away

I don't think the Westbrook trade was his choice and all the assets he had to dump to get it done is likely a big part of why he's out the door. The Rockets still won the equivalent of 50 games if this was a full season. So, "fail" is a relative term for a team picking 5 in the lottery 2 years straight.

Anyway, I'm not a Morey proponent, just noting an opportunity that will likely pass the Cavs by and why they may regret that decision. You guys are covering the why we may not side, well.

imo whenever you put all your eggs in one basket which he did and you consistently come up short regardless of win totals in a meaningless reg season...it is a fail esp when the teams you assemble are are not complimentary

The regular season isn't "meaningless" to the fans who pay to watch it.

A short-term rebuild is fine, but without the right scouting and decision making it can become endless. Altman may work out, he might not, but . If he doesn't we may have wasted numerous picks and years AND not had won anything.

Houston gave up 2 first rounders and a couple of pick swaps. So they still have picks if they have the right scouting/GM to take advantage of them. They just aren't planning to be scraping the bottom of the lottery. Morey would had likely kept them from that even with the fit problems that Westbrook caused.

[Stillwater]

I don't think the Westbrook trade was his choice and all the assets he had to dump to get it done is likely a big part of why he's out the door. The Rockets still won the equivalent of 50 games if this was a full season. So, "fail" is a relative term for a team picking 5 in the lottery 2 years straight.

Anyway, I'm not a Morey proponent, just noting an opportunity that will likely pass the Cavs by and why they may regret that decision. You guys are covering the why we may not side, well.

imo whenever you put all your eggs in one basket which he did and you consistently come up short regardless of win totals in a meaningless reg season...it is a fail esp when the teams you assemble are are not complimentary

The regular season isn't "meaningless" to the fans who pay to watch it.

A short-term rebuild is fine, but without the right scouting and decision making it can become endless. Altman may work out, he might not, but . If he doesn't we may have wasted numerous picks and years AND not had won anything.

Houston gave up 2 first rounders and a couple of pick swaps. So they still have picks if they have the right scouting/GM to take advantage of them. They just aren't planning to be scraping the bottom of the lottery. Morey would had likely kept them from that even with the fit problems that Westbrook caused.

I dont view pertaining to the draft that Altman is at the head of table at all so could he be the fall guy sure, but really it's fairly easy for a gm to keep their job during a rebuild which requires losing to get good picks or at least somewhat decent options but if anything lottery luck has fd this org last year and this year

[JonFromVA]

imo whenever you put all your eggs in one basket which he did and you consistently come up short regardless of win totals in a meaningless reg season...it is a fail esp when the teams you assemble are are not complimentary

The regular season isn't "meaningless" to the fans who pay to watch it.

A short-term rebuild is fine, but without the right scouting and decision making it can become endless. Altman may work out, he might not, but . If he doesn't we may have wasted numerous picks and years AND not had won anything.

Houston gave up 2 first rounders and a couple of pick swaps. So they still have picks if they have the right scouting/GM to take advantage of them. They just aren't planning to be scraping the bottom of the lottery. Morey would had likely kept them from that even with the fit problems that Westbrook caused.

I dont view pertaining to the draft that Altman is at the head of table at all so could he be the fall guy sure, but really it's fairly easy for a gm to keep their job during a rebuild which requires losing to get good picks or at least somewhat decent options but if anything lottery luck has fd this org last year and this year

Part of the attraction of Morey in my mind - or really any experienced GM or VP that we might bring in - is the possibility that Dan and friends would step away and let the basketball people run things.

[Stillwater]

The regular season isn't "meaningless" to the fans who pay to watch it.

A short-term rebuild is fine, but without the right scouting and decision making it can become endless. Altman may work out, he might not, but . If he doesn't we may have wasted numerous picks and years AND not had won anything.

Houston gave up 2 first rounders and a couple of pick swaps. So they still have picks if they have the right scouting/GM to take advantage of them. They just aren't planning to be scraping the bottom of the lottery. Morey would had likely kept them from that even with the fit problems that Westbrook caused.

I dont view pertaining to the draft that Altman is at the head of table at all so could he be the fall guy sure, but really it's fairly easy for a gm to keep their job during a rebuild which requires losing to get good picks or at least somewhat decent options but if anything lottery luck has fd this org last year and this year

Part of the attraction of Morey in my mind - or really any experienced GM or VP that we might bring in - is the possibility that Dan and friends would step away and let the basketball people run things.

What gm with that desirable resume (morey aint it imo) is going to get offered full control here and which one if not offered it would agree to take the job?
I dont see the CLE org having any interest in bringing in someone to sell draft assets and young players to attemp to turn the paddles to an engine only to fry a piston before the finish line over abd over again.
Better to sell hope for a small market even if it means having to lose for a decade until they hit on a generational draft pick again.
Overall the Cavs fan base seems pretty used too losing when there is no Lebron in town and dont really think there is much chance of selling them on vets that havent won anything over high upside youth

[JonFromVA]

I dont view pertaining to the draft that Altman is at the head of table at all so could he be the fall guy sure, but really it's fairly easy for a gm to keep their job during a rebuild which requires losing to get good picks or at least somewhat decent options but if anything lottery luck has fd this org last year and this year

Part of the attraction of Morey in my mind - or really any experienced GM or VP that we might bring in - is the possibility that Dan and friends would step away and let the basketball people run things.

What gm with that desirable resume (morey aint it imo) is going to get offered full control here and which one if not offered it would agree to take the job?
I dont see the CLE org having any interest in bringing in someone to sell draft assets and young players to attemp to turn the paddles to an engine only to fry a piston before the finish line over abd over again.
Better to sell hope for a small market even if it means having to lose for a decade until they hit on a generational draft pick again.
Overall the Cavs fan base seems pretty used too losing when there is no Lebron in town and dont really think there is much chance of selling them on vets that havent won anything over high upside youth

We just need a GM with a clue how to build a team that Dan will let build the team. Selling off young assets could be the right move, it all depends whether the GM and his staff are coming up with accurate projections for performance, fit, and market value. Danny Ainge is an example of a GM who's built teams multiple ways with barely a drop-off over the past 16 years. For a truly smart GM there shouldn't be one formula, one path (please spare us Hinkie).

[Stillwater]

Part of the attraction of Morey in my mind - or really any experienced GM or VP that we might bring in - is the possibility that Dan and friends would step away and let the basketball people run things.

What gm with that desirable resume (morey aint it imo) is going to get offered full control here and which one if not offered it would agree to take the job?
I dont see the CLE org having any interest in bringing in someone to sell draft assets and young players to attemp to turn the paddles to an engine only to fry a piston before the finish line over abd over again.
Better to sell hope for a small market even if it means having to lose for a decade until they hit on a generational draft pick again.
Overall the Cavs fan base seems pretty used too losing when there is no Lebron in town and dont really think there is much chance of selling them on vets that havent won anything over high upside youth

We just need a GM with a clue how to build a team that Dan will let build the team. Selling off young assets could be the right move, it all depends whether the GM and his staff are coming up with accurate projections for performance, fit, and market value. Danny Ainge is an example of a GM who's built teams multiple ways with barely a drop-off over the past 16 years. For a truly smart GM there shouldn't be one formula, one path (please spare us Hinkie).

nah Ainge anywhere besides Boston has nowhere near the same outcome besides he is a snake and he got what he deserved when the Irving trade came back and bit his arse.
I just think all gms are a dime a dozen and besides getting one cheap that hits in the lottery and then has assets to use as bait there is no chance any gm is going to do better than Altman is doing with the current roster,owner situation , cap space etc.
the last thing the Cavs need to do is get a new gm what they do need to do is draft the damn best player that is available and if its a guard shop Garland.

[jbk1234]

The regular season isn't "meaningless" to the fans who pay to watch it.

A short-term rebuild is fine, but without the right scouting and decision making it can become endless. Altman may work out, he might not, but . If he doesn't we may have wasted numerous picks and years AND not had won anything.

Houston gave up 2 first rounders and a couple of pick swaps. So they still have picks if they have the right scouting/GM to take advantage of them. They just aren't planning to be scraping the bottom of the lottery. Morey would had likely kept them from that even with the fit problems that Westbrook caused.

I dont view pertaining to the draft that Altman is at the head of table at all so could he be the fall guy sure, but really it's fairly easy for a gm to keep their job during a rebuild which requires losing to get good picks or at least somewhat decent options but if anything lottery luck has fd this org last year and this year

Part of the attraction of Morey in my mind - or really any experienced GM or VP that we might bring in - is the possibility that Dan and friends would step away and let the basketball people run things.

Due to the nature of the contracts, the luxury tax, and how a franchise player coming or going can impact a franchise, owners are rarely out altogether. If you're making a big move, the owner is getting consulted and he's retaining veto power.

I'm not see any obvious mistakes on Altman's part. I'm good with the trades he's made. The Cavs are going to need to hit on picks, manage their cap wisely, and avoid dumb signings. If they do that, they'll have an opportunity to make some good trades.

If we end up drafting Toppin, I'm open to revisiting this discussion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[JonFromVA]

I dont view pertaining to the draft that Altman is at the head of table at all so could he be the fall guy sure, but really it's fairly easy for a gm to keep their job during a rebuild which requires losing to get good picks or at least somewhat decent options but if anything lottery luck has fd this org last year and this year

Part of the attraction of Morey in my mind - or really any experienced GM or VP that we might bring in - is the possibility that Dan and friends would step away and let the basketball people run things.

Due to the nature of the contracts, the luxury tax, and how a franchise player coming or going can impact a franchise, owners are rarely out altogether. If you're making a big move, the owner is getting consulted and he's retaining veto power.

I'm not see any obvious mistakes on Altman's part. I'm good with the trades he's made. The Cavs are going to need to hit on picks, manage their cap wisely, and avoid dumb signings. If they do that, they'll have an opportunity to make some good trades.

If we end up drafting Toppin, I'm open to revisiting this discussion.

Veto power isn't the problem. For instance, it's being reported that the Westbrook deal was Fertita's and Harden's choice. Dan reportedly has stepped in multiple times and made the final choice on Cavs' decisions.

Anyway, it sounds like Morey will probably take some time off and won't be available ... it's more the thought of upgrading our FO and helping Dan/family step back if/when the opportunity happens.

[JonFromVA]

What gm with that desirable resume (morey aint it imo) is going to get offered full control here and which one if not offered it would agree to take the job?
I dont see the CLE org having any interest in bringing in someone to sell draft assets and young players to attemp to turn the paddles to an engine only to fry a piston before the finish line over abd over again.
Better to sell hope for a small market even if it means having to lose for a decade until they hit on a generational draft pick again.
Overall the Cavs fan base seems pretty used too losing when there is no Lebron in town and dont really think there is much chance of selling them on vets that havent won anything over high upside youth

We just need a GM with a clue how to build a team that Dan will let build the team. Selling off young assets could be the right move, it all depends whether the GM and his staff are coming up with accurate projections for performance, fit, and market value. Danny Ainge is an example of a GM who's built teams multiple ways with barely a drop-off over the past 16 years. For a truly smart GM there shouldn't be one formula, one path (please spare us Hinkie).

nah Ainge anywhere besides Boston has nowhere near the same outcome besides he is a snake and he got what he deserved when the Irving trade came back and bit his arse.
I just think all gms are a dime a dozen and besides getting one cheap that hits in the lottery and then has assets to use as bait there is no chance any gm is going to do better than Altman is doing with the current roster,owner situation , cap space etc.
the last thing the Cavs need to do is get a new gm what they do need to do is draft the damn best player that is available and if its a guard shop Garland.

We could use the kind of snake that can turn broken Isaiah Thomas in to Irving, and then lose Irving and Horford suffer a major injury to Haywood and then go out and sign Kemba Walker ... and actually improve the team in the whole process.

I'm always glad to see Boston coming up short, no doubt, but I'd still rather watch a competitive team that's constantly making clever moves to improve then watch a team collect lottery tickets.

[jbk1234]

Part of the attraction of Morey in my mind - or really any experienced GM or VP that we might bring in - is the possibility that Dan and friends would step away and let the basketball people run things.

Due to the nature of the contracts, the luxury tax, and how a franchise player coming or going can impact a franchise, owners are rarely out altogether. If you're making a big move, the owner is getting consulted and he's retaining veto power.

I'm not see any obvious mistakes on Altman's part. I'm good with the trades he's made. The Cavs are going to need to hit on picks, manage their cap wisely, and avoid dumb signings. If they do that, they'll have an opportunity to make some good trades.

If we end up drafting Toppin, I'm open to revisiting this discussion.

Veto power isn't the problem. For instance, it's being reported that the Westbrook deal was Fertita's and Harden's choice. Dan reportedly has stepped in multiple times and made the final choice on Cavs' decisions.

Anyway, it sounds like Morey will probably take some time off and won't be available ... it's more the thought of upgrading our FO and helping Dan/family step back if/when the opportunity happens.

If you're imagining a scenario where a GM can undertake a $200M obligation on behalf of an owner by signing a single player, or trade away several years of first round picks from a midmarket team that isn't very good, or where the GM can put the owner into the luxury tax for years, and the owner is going to have no say, I'd suggest that scenario exists mostly in your imagination. Every GM is going to have to run those decisions by every owner or ownership group.