2020 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 -- (8PM, Wed, Nov. 18, ESPN)

[BostonCouchGM]

I am in the Club that is screaming for the BEST Wings of the draft fort Boston.. Whether Hayward stays one more year or not..

I still have a high desire to draft any of S Bey-Nesmith-Pat Williams at 14

BUT I have been growing my love of Precious A.. why?? Because as I reviewed our struggles on defense these playoffs, it was all set up by Theis', R Williams', Kanter's inability to step out on switches. (that and Kemba's little size)

Having said that, Precious is probably the ONLY center tall/long/athletic enough to switch.. No one in this entire draft (including J Smith) or current NBA possibilities (Myles Turner, Steve Adams) can do that. So even if Precious isn't as strong at shooting yet as I like, he can come in and immediately make a team impact..

What is or should be our team identity??? SWITCHABLE TEAM DEFENSE !!

Precious is now my top pick at 14...

am I wrong???

no, it's all subjective. I personally can't fathom Precious lasting till #14. I'd be doing backflips like I was when Sekou dropped to us last draft. We need size at the 4/5. He seems pretty damn long, athletic, and skilled. So why wouldn't he be at the top our list if he was still there, especially considering who is left on the board and what our team needs are. Going by who would need to go before him for him to fall to us at #14, he would def be my pick too!

[Spin Move]

Obi will be good, He is 6'9 with a 7'2 wingspan, those dudes that drag midmajors to sucess like the steph curry;s the Szcerbiacs, the fred van fleet, most of the time they end up being good nab players (there are exceptions like Mcdermott who are only ok) but when 1 dude drags a midmajor into the top 10, that is a guy who I want to draft, Obi will have a bigger learning curve but I watched a few of his games last year. He will be a good player, against KU a team with several guys who will be drafted this year and next he really stood out, not in score but with his defense. He would be best served going to a like an atlanta with trae young or a memphis with Ja up and coming team that has shots to spare. He would slot in great next to brown and tatum but he is not a rim protector, he is more 3/4 the 4/5.

[Spin Move]

I am in the Club that is screaming for the BEST Wings of the draft fort Boston.. Whether Hayward stays one more year or not..

I still have a high desire to draft any of S Bey-Nesmith-Pat Williams at 14

BUT I have been growing my love of Precious A.. why?? Because as I reviewed our struggles on defense these playoffs, it was all set up by Theis', R Williams', Kanter's inability to step out on switches. (that and Kemba's little size)

Having said that, Precious is probably the ONLY center tall/long/athletic enough to switch.. No one in this entire draft (including J Smith) or current NBA possibilities (Myles Turner, Steve Adams) can do that. So even if Precious isn't as strong at shooting yet as I like, he can come in and immediately make a team impact..

What is or should be our team identity??? SWITCHABLE TEAM DEFENSE !!

Precious is now my top pick at 14...

am I wrong???

no, it's all subjective. I personally can't fathom Precious lasting till #14. I'd be doing backflips like I was when Sekou dropped to us last draft. We need size at the 4/5. He seems pretty damn long, athletic, and skilled. So why wouldn't he be at the top our list if he was still there, especially considering who is left on the board and what our team needs are. Going by who would need to go before him for him to fall to us at #14, he would def be my pick too!

He is long and athletic, skilled I would not agree with you, he has the most space between upside and floor of anyone we are looking at for 14, could bloom into a serge ibaka type or could totally bust, he does not have a great shot (only shot 60% on free throws) but he is super athletic. He and Toppin have virtually the same measurements Toppin is skilled, Precious has better lateral quickness.

[Floody100]

I don’t watch much college ball but is Toppin worth trading by up for ? His size & skill intrigues me but that’s just me watching highlights.

[JHTruth]

If we feel Obi is the guy, and he's got all star talent more than anyone else in the draft, and he falls to 6 and the hawks who already have pf/c combos, is 14, 26, 30 enough? or do we trade that for the 7th and trade 7 and 47 for 6? we have options that aren't terribly expensive to get him.

heck, we could even trade 6 and future first to move into top 3 in this draft. Danny has tried this before, I heard rumors of trading up to 3 for Luka, but that draft had high upside star prospects and teams aren't bitting. This year we could be a player.

The fact we are working out and meeting with a top 7 prospect tells you what you need to know.

The fact we are also working out late firsts and seconds means it might not work and we end up staying with picks we have.

Danny is ready for anything. I lean towards moving up high as moving up 5 slots doesn't do much, otherwise stay and draft best available.

How about a Hayward +14 trade for #6 and Huerta or something??

ATL seems pretty set going forward after acquiring Capela. Seems like if they just take bpa big at #6 (Okongwu) and let the kids develop they'll be fine. They have arguably the most talented young roster in the NBA.

Young
Huerter
Reddish
Collins
Capela

Okongwu
Hunter

that said, a healthy Hayward added to that mix injects some vet leadership, BBIQ and professionalism. I think a deal could be made I'm just not sure they need to send back a player. And since they don't, and we don't actually gain any cap relief by trading him, we'd be creating a hole in our starting five and be replacing it with #6 pick. Is that player at #6 going to be as good as Hayward, especially in year 1? So do we, in the short term, get better as a team? I love it for our future, especially if Danny hits on the #6 and on the late 1st rounders too. Then we'd really set ourselves up for the future. But that's a lot of ifs especially with how bad a drafter Danny is.

Meh that roster is going to be in the lottery for awhile. Trae is a volume guy who sucks at D. IDK how you could dislike the Romeo pick and love Reddish at the same time.

They pretty much suck TBH..

[Parliament10]

All this waiting is nerve-racking. It's killing everything.
This extra 4 weeks, is untenable.

Watch on YouTube

[themoneyteam2]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Spin Move]

I don’t watch much college ball but is Toppin worth trading by up for ? His size & skill intrigues me but that’s just me watching highlights.

He is not a 5, he is a meh rebounder for a 4, he is truly a big wing /Stretch 4 that can create mismatches. He has a good chance to be a Tobias Harris type, really solid stretch 4

[JHTruth]

I don’t watch much college ball but is Toppin worth trading by up for ? His size & skill intrigues me but that’s just me watching highlights.

He is not a 5, he is a meh rebounder for a 4, he is truly a big wing /Stretch 4 that can create mismatches. He has a good chance to be a Tobias Harris type, really solid stretch 4

Yeah not a rim protector. His ceiling is probably Amare.

[Spin Move]

https://www.nbadraft.net/situational-analysis-aaron-nesmith/ Good article on Nesmith, I like him at 14 if we don't get Jalen or Precious there. Decent chance he is gone before then, but he is a Ray Allen/Klay Thompson run all over the place tire out defenders shooter. I realize we need help elsewhere but we need shooting.

[Bleeding Green]

I don’t watch much college ball but is Toppin worth trading by up for ? His size & skill intrigues me but that’s just me watching highlights.

He is not a 5, he is a meh rebounder for a 4, he is truly a big wing /Stretch 4 that can create mismatches. He has a good chance to be a Tobias Harris type, really solid stretch 4

He looks like if Aaron Gordon played defense like Jabari Parker.

[Gomes3PC]

No thanks on Toppin. What did this postseason show? Defense, strength and versatility reign supreme. Toppin has doesn't defend and isn't versatile.

Who fits that in the 5 -
15 range?

Okoro
Onyeka
Hayes
Hali
Pat Williams

In particular, I think Okoro is a jumper away from superstardom. Legitimately, if he can become average there he's an All NBA with his defense, FT drawing and elite interior finishing. He's built like a tank. He's like a larger, twitchier Smart.

Honestly, if he slides past like 7, I'd do everything in my power to trade up for him. This is the exact kind of draft where in retrospect the best player almost assuredly won't go top 1-2 and Okoro IMO has the goods to become that "best guy in this draft" kind of pick.

Hali would be a great consolation. We still need more shooting, and having a P&R initiator at his size to take ballhandling pressure off Tatum and Kemba would be a welcome addition. He could easily run the bench unit as a rookie IMO.

Ainge will prob be patient and let whoever slides to him become his guy but if there is someone he loves, I am all in favor of pushing the chips in like he tried for with Winslow.

[playa-hater]

Looking at as much film/video as possible, but can someone explain to me what makes Isaac Okoro and D Vassell top 10 picks while 2 players with very similar size and athletics in Robert Woodard and Tyler Bey make for late 1sts/2nd rd picks???

Woodard and Okoro look to have exactly the same strong bodies but a "need to improve their shooting all while T Bey actually looks like his shot is more technically sound vs Vassell.

Conclusion I have is Woodard or T Bey have a much greater value at 26-30 then either Okoro or Vassell.

can some shed some light on this one??

[playa-hater]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

great they can share a B Day party around Midnight !!

destiny has spoken!!

[threrf23]

Looking at as much film/video as possible, but can someone explain to me what makes Isaac Okoro and D Vassell top 10 picks while 2 players with very similar size and athletics in Robert Woodard and Tyler Bey make for late 1sts/2nd rd picks???

As far as Tyler Bey is concerned - he's a tweener in the vein of Andre Roberson (more or less).

Regarding Woodard and Okoro, just reading about them, Woodard might have decent size and length and athleticism, but Okoro sounds/looks like an ideal specimen, and he also sounds less raw (or otherwise more well rounded).

Vassell's my binky. Reading former coaches talk about him reminds me of former coaches talking about Jimmy Butler. From a statistical if not actual standpoint, he is leaps and bounds the best three point shooter in this conversation, and he also posted an A/TO ratio better than 2-1 last season, very nice defensive stats as well (foul efficiency included). By all accounts he has standout instincts, this was apparent to me when I watched video of him.

[Squigglepuffin]

Zeke Nnaji should be a lottery pick. He won't be, but he should be.

I think he'll be one of the best 14 players from this draft in 5 years time.

I just think he's quite raw and needs to be taught how to play basketball properly. He's only 19.

Watch on YouTube

I disagree that he will be anything more then a rotation player, he doesn't block shots he doesn't rebound at a super high rate (average for a decent college PF). While he has excellent height and mobility (6'10 barefoot) he is not especially long, and didn't block shots in college. Dude has no hops. Now, not saying he is not worth say pick #30, there are things he can do, he will be a better PNR defender then most of the bigs we have spent more time talking about but he will never be a rim protector. He has a decent stroke, shot over 75% from the line and is one of the youngest players in the draft. So if you are cool with a Kelly Oynyk type he is not a bad option (Onlynk blocked more shots but had fewer rebounds per game in college) I think Olink in the lotto was a mistake but he is very young, has good size and is one to consider at 30.

He can rebound at a decent rate, shoot and defend on the perimiter, if you focus on those things and are cool playing a big that will provide no rim protection he is your guy, he actually might be a really good option to defend Bam, fast enough to stay in front and make him score over length, but he won't come from the weakside and block Jimmy's drive.

I'm not saying he's a star in the making. I think it's important to understand the context in which I'm saying he could end up being one of the best 14 players from this draft. This draft is one of the weakest, if not the weakest in the past 10-15 years. It's a bad draft.

My guess is only about 15 of the players of this draft stay in the league longer than 5 years and are actually able to contribute at any real level - be it as a top 10 rotation player on a team, starter, or high level starter.

I disagree that Olynyk wasn't worth the #13 pick in the 2013 NBA draft. If you go back over that draft Kelly is in my opinion one of the best 13 players from that draft. In retrospect a redraft (in no particular order) from that draft would include Giannis, Oladipo, Gobert, McCollum, Zeller, Adams, Covington, Schroder, Porter, Noel, Olynyk... and of course it's debatable, but it's not like he's far off from being in the top 13 of that draft. That is all I mean when I say Nnaji could very well end up being one of the best 14 players from this coming draft.

As far as his verticality goes, he's definitely a better leaper than Isaiah Stewart. His load up to jump takes a little too much time imo. He does have good lateral quickness for someone his size, I just think he hasn't been taught how to defend properly, which is why he takes bad angles when defending on the perimeter and having players blow by him.

You're right that he doesn't block shots or rebound very well. I also agree that his stroke looks promising. His defense can improve a fair amount imo, as can his offense. If his rebounding and block numbers stay the same, then it is what it is, but in essence him ending up being one of the best 14 or so players from this draft is more of a reflection on how weak this draft is rather than how great a player he is or isn't.

At #30 he would be good value. At #14 there are other players I would consider.

[Squigglepuffin]

Looking at as much film/video as possible, but can someone explain to me what makes Isaac Okoro and D Vassell top 10 picks while 2 players with very similar size and athletics in Robert Woodard and Tyler Bey make for late 1sts/2nd rd picks???

Woodard and Okoro look to have exactly the same strong bodies but a "need to improve their shooting all while T Bey actually looks like his shot is more technically sound vs Vassell.

Conclusion I have is Woodard or T Bey have a much greater value at 26-30 then either Okoro or Vassell.

can some shed some light on this one??

When it comes to Okoro he is unquestionably a top 10 pick. He's only 19, he can defend at a great level. I wouldn't be surprised if down the track he becomes a perennial 1st or 2nd team all defense player. His youth is one of the major reasons for Okoro being so high. It's generally accepted that if a guy is really young he is rawer and has more room to grow, both in size and skill than an older player. Okoro is also extremely athletic, arguably the most athletic in the draft. Even though he is only 19yo he has a great TO/Assist ratio, which means he is smart with the ball. Basically, if someone can teach him how to shoot he'll become an all-star. But the big question is CAN someone teach him how to shoot, but the potential is the big drawcard with him.

Vassell is a very smart player. He has a really good TO/Assist ratio, he's tall with a good wingspan. He might not be super athletic he is a really good defender. Additionally he is 20 years old (age is a big deal in the draft).

Tyler Bey is almost 23 years old. When you're that old generally speaking you've pretty much hit your ceiling. If you were to level things out ask the question how would Tyler Bey NOW compare with how good Okoro would be in 3 years. Then you are comparing apples to apples.

Woodard is older than both Vassell and Okoro, and Vassell, though younger, has advanced stats and metrics that blow Woodard's out of the water and make Robert Woodard look like a shadow compared to Vassell.

Vassell might fall to 14... but if Okoro falls to 14 you almost certainly take him. Okoro's floor is pretty good, and his ceiling is very high if someone can teach him how to shoot.

[playa-hater]

Name your perfect, but reasonable, Celtic draft for all 3 picks!!

*My definition of reasonable is a player selected has been mocked at or around Boston's draft spots..

Mine is changing a bit from week to week, but after weeks of yapping on here, here is my "reasonable" But hopeful dream draft.

14 - Precious Achiuwa - super switchable PF-Center with some nice upside
26 - RJ Hampton - a tall very athletic PG/SG - again upside + switchable
30 - (Tyler Bey or R Woodard) whomever looks to be the more promising shooter. Super switchable WING defender..

Maybe not realistic, but within reason..

WHO ARE YOURS!!!

[Squigglepuffin]

HArd draft as the top 15 guys seem to be in the same tier of player. But a few of these guys are going to JUMP out and be a STAR.

Who are those guys?

As far as I know the consensus seems to be that the top 15 are Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, Avdija, Toppin, Okongwu, Hayes, Haliburton, Okoro, Williams, Vassell, Bey, Nesmith, Precious, Terry or Lewis.

I don't think all of these guys are in the same tier. Obviously I'm only one person, but imo Avdija, Ball, Toppin, Haliburton, Precious, Terry, and Saddiq Bey are not in the same tier as the others.

The players in the highest tier of this draft (as opposed to being legit bluechip prospects in the highest tier of any draft- because this draft is weak) are Hayes, Edwards, Okongwu, and Okoro (who is a high variance prospect). These guys are the ones that have the potential to be all-stars/borderline all-stars.

I am conflicted about Wiseman. From what I have seen he isn't in the same tier as these other four guys but I have read somewhere that in private workouts he looks great so idk. He's a huge question mark but if I'm only going off what I've seen in his handful of games in college he isn't in the same tier as these other three guys.

Then there is a lower tier that Nesmith, Patrick Williams, and Jalen Harris of Nevada (yes I know that's unexpected but he's criminally underrated and he reminds me of Jamal Crawford) belong in. I may, may put Vassell in this tier too. These guys are high quality starter. To give a comparison Patrick Williams seems like he could be become a slightly - slightly lesser version of OG Anunoby but thats still a pretty good player. So these guys are on that OG level.

I really hesitate to include Toppin in this tier because his defense, and how good I think he'll be able to play defense in the NBA is very, very concerning to me. He seems like a guy who people are and will be excited by his offense and forget that he's 22 so he'll perform better than the other guys in the short term BUT there are two sides to playing basketball.

Because of his offense and age he'll probably end up being rookie of the year, but that doesn't really speak to how good he'll be in the longterm.

He could basically end up as a player as offensively gifted as Tobias Harris but much worse defensively - so whatever that is - I don't equate it to being as good as Nesmith and Williams' OVERALL positive impact in a basketball game.

Then there is another tier the rest of the players belong in imo.

FWIW I think Hayes will end up being considered the best or at the least a top 3 player in this draft in 5 years time. I think he can be a multiple time all-star.

[playa-hater]

Looking at as much film/video as possible, but can someone explain to me what makes Isaac Okoro and D Vassell top 10 picks while 2 players with very similar size and athletics in Robert Woodard and Tyler Bey make for late 1sts/2nd rd picks???

Woodard and Okoro look to have exactly the same strong bodies but a "need to improve their shooting all while T Bey actually looks like his shot is more technically sound vs Vassell.

Conclusion I have is Woodard or T Bey have a much greater value at 26-30 then either Okoro or Vassell.

can some shed some light on this one??

When it comes to Okoro he is unquestionably a top 10 pick. He's only 19, he can defend at a great level. I wouldn't be surprised if down the track he becomes a perennial 1st or 2nd team all defense player. His youth is one of the major reasons for Okoro being so high. It's generally accepted that if a guy is really young he is rawer and has more room to grow, both in size and skill than an older player. Okoro is also extremely athletic, arguably the most athletic in the draft. Even though he is only 19yo he has a great TO/Assist ratio, which means he is smart with the ball. Basically, if someone can teach him how to shoot he'll become an all-star. But the big question is CAN someone teach him how to shoot, but the potential is the big drawcard with him.

Vassell is a very smart player. He has a really good TO/Assist ratio, he's tall with a good wingspan. He might not be super athletic he is a really good defender. Additionally he is 20 years old (age is a big deal in the draft).

Tyler Bey is almost 23 years old. When you're that old generally speaking you've pretty much hit your ceiling. If you were to level things out ask the question how would Tyler Bey NOW compare with how good Okoro would be in 3 years. Then you are comparing apples to apples.

Woodard is older than both Vassell and Okoro, and Vassell, though younger, has advanced stats and metrics that blow Woodard's out of the water and make Robert Woodard look like a shadow compared to Vassell.

Vassell might fall to 14... but if Okoro falls to 14 you almost certainly take him. Okoro's floor is pretty good, and his ceiling is very high if someone can teach him how to shoot.

appreciate the feedback. don't agree 100%, but everything you say is fair and possible though.