Michael Jordan is still the GOAT. Lebron has solidified the #2 spot though.

[twyzted]

Wow what a garbage take .... centres are supposed to lead their team / the league in assists ? I never knew since wilt was the only to ever do that. Defence is also universal to position there buddy, but if centres are more commonly that leader because they can have more impact and wilt was a complete game changer at that end somehow you use that against him ? Or that it’s irrelevant.

Size helps and wilt had more. The fact that he was a better playmaker and athlete is just all the more impressive at his size.



Mj was not the Russell of his era. Russel won 11 championships in 13 years two years he didn’t win it all he lost in finals and east finals. Jordan had 9 years he failed to make finals (2 years failed to make the playoffs 3 years failed to advance past the first round)

Wait wilt never lead the league in apg. He had ~80 more then oscar but oscar missed 17 games and had more apg. But wilt was ridiculous that season.
And what wilt is a better playmaker because of 1 season?
Jordan lead his team in assists
Rs 85, 89, 90,
Ps 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 93, 96, 97.

As a rookie he lead his team in ppg, rpg, apg, spg.
89 lead his team in assist, 2nd in rebs, steals, blocks and points also in per game.
Always lead points/ppg.
2-3 year scottie had more spg.
Also the years he did not lead the team in apg pippen was never more then 1 apg ahead.
Most of the years he was 2nd or at worst 3rd in rpg.

It’s debatable who has the advantage then in assists an obvious guard loaded stat as they bring the ball up and are given more opportunities. Did Jordan ever lead, especially clearly lead his team in assists when they were champions as this is important to the Jordan narrative.

How do they compare in rebounds and blocks ?

I did not compare them in rebounds or blocks.
I was responding to you said
"Wilt was the 76ers leading scorer and rebounder and playmaker (assists) and defender (Jordan was never all of that)"
I just gave examples of jordan doing that.
In 91 playoffs
Jordan had 8.9 apg pippen 6.4 also in 89 mj 7.9 sp 3.9.
Further on 91 mj lead in ppg, apg, bpg. 2nd steals .1 behind sp, 3rd rpg.

Also would like to add.
Why are everyone so oppsesed with 1 guy has to lead in all stats, if someone does not then he is not as good of a player?
I would argue that having the load of rebounds, assists, scoring and defence distributed between players. It makes for a better Team then one guy carrying the load and leading all stats. Maybe that is part of the reason the bulls were so good in 94? Other than Jordan leaving and 4 guys into 6/7, 3 peat rotation the bulls had.

[OdomFan]

It’s debatable who has the advantage then in assists an obvious guard loaded stat as they bring the ball up and are given more opportunities. Did Jordan ever lead, especially clearly lead his team in assists when they were champions as this is important to the Jordan narrative.

How do they compare in rebounds and blocks ?

Wilt is better than Jordan at those things because those are the things that a Center is supposed to have over a shooting guard. This is clearly going no where.

So what is Jordan clearly better than wilt at ?

To me it’s seems more like you’re using the fact that wilt was taller against wilt when it is clearly an advantage he has. Ask any player or coach or gm or any one with a brain for basketball to honestly answer and they say yes height is a good thing, just because he should be a better rebounder doesn’t mean it’s not a positive that he is possibly the best rebounder ever.

Three team stats that have the biggest correlation to winning
+/- in
Turnovers
Rebounding
And fg% efg

Wilt is completely dominate in rebounding and the other
Two are debatable although I don’t think there is much debate wilt lowered the opposing teams efficiency on offence more

I'm using the fact that Wilt was a Center to show that your idea that him being better than a shooting guard at doing things a Center does makes no sense to bring up here.

As far as overall play goes. Jordan shot the ball better, got to the rim quicker and just as well despite being smaller, and was just as elite on defense. Not to mention a better overall leader. Wilt chased Stats while MJ played within a great system to lead his team to multiple championships. So yeah, I'm taking him over Mr. 100 points any day of the week.

Btw, Dennis Rodman is the Greatest Rebounder of All Time.

[Bucketz_McGee]

He will never be the G.O.A.T. I do no see how some glaring statistics are overlooked when comparing M.J and Lebron. Lebron's awrful FT% (for an elite player, it is awful) cannot be ignored; in some playoffs his percentage was closer to Shaq's than MJ.

Lebron is 2nd All Time in turnovers. Yes, MJ is 33rd All Time. Lebron have over 1400 more than MJ. Lebron is 1st All Time in postseason turnovers, nearly doubling MJ's totals.

"Oh but he plays so many more minutes than anyone". "He has the ball more than anyone". So did M.J and he did not turn the ball over nearly as much.

And I have always said and will continue to say that 1,072 was the benchmark for greatness. 1,072 a pass/ fail test. Lebron failed.

Not to mention that M.J is the only player in history to ever win MVP, Scoring Champion and Defensive Player of the Year in the same season.

Say what you will, Lebron is not and cannot be #1. He isn't even #2.

[Lukeem]

Wilt is better than Jordan at those things because those are the things that a Center is supposed to have over a shooting guard. This is clearly going no where.

So what is Jordan clearly better than wilt at ?

To me it’s seems more like you’re using the fact that wilt was taller against wilt when it is clearly an advantage he has. Ask any player or coach or gm or any one with a brain for basketball to honestly answer and they say yes height is a good thing, just because he should be a better rebounder doesn’t mean it’s not a positive that he is possibly the best rebounder ever.

Three team stats that have the biggest correlation to winning
+/- in
Turnovers
Rebounding
And fg% efg

Wilt is completely dominate in rebounding and the other
Two are debatable although I don’t think there is much debate wilt lowered the opposing teams efficiency on offence more

I'm using the fact that Wilt was a Center to show that your idea that him being better than a shooting guard at doing things a Center does makes no sense to bring up here.

As far as overall play goes. Jordan shot the ball better, got to the rim quicker being yet just as good despite being smaller, and was just as elite on defense. Not to mention a better overall leader. Wilt chased Stats while MJ played within a great system to lead his team to multiple championships. So yeah, I'm taking him over Mr. 100 points any day of the week.

Btw, Dennis Rodman is the Greatest Rebounder of All Time.

I’m bringing up things that wilt does better as a basketball player you cannot discount that because of his position especially when Jordan doesn’t do a better job of the main thing his position is supposed to do better.

Jordan shot the ball better which is how he scored. Who was the better scorer? That is the end question and the end result

Getting to the rim quicker, do you see how nuanced and specific you have to get to try to find advantages for Jordan? Are you suggesting that Jordan was a better interior scorer ?

Jordan did not come close to make as much of an impact on the defensive end as wilt, get real here and be honest. Jordan was a great defender. Wilt completely changed the way every team had to try to score and made everything more difficult.

You think Jordan didn’t chase stats at any point? Do you have any idea how much different the record books would look if wilt really just cared about chasing stats ? He bought into the roles he was asked to play and dominated in every way when his coach asked him to revolutionize his game.

You think Dennis rodman could have grabbed 55 rebounds in one playoff game against Bill Russell? The narrative that rodman is close to the best rebounder of all time or even in the conversation is a garbage take drenched in recency bias. He was a phenomenal rebounder no where close to how much wilt dominated the boards. If rodman was another six inches taller and had wilts athleticism he probably would have been a better rebounder since that’s all he did.

Glad you recognize that rodman was a huge influential player... means you might be closer to realizing that wilt essentially had Jordan’s influence on the game if Jordan and rodman were combined just taking the best attributes of each player.

[MavsPride99]

Wilt was the 76ers leading scorer and rebounder and playmaker (assists) and defender (Jordan was never all of that) and wilt lead them over a better team than what Jordan’s bulls ever beat.


Quality over quantity especially when the quantity you’re using is a team accomplishment

Yes. Wilt was better at doing things that a Center is supposed to be better than a guard at. There's this thing called leading a team to success. MJ did that better than Wilt ever did. Russell was the MJ of that era. Wilt was the stats star.

Wow what a garbage take .... centres are supposed to lead their team / the league in assists ? I never knew since wilt was the only to ever do that. Defence is also universal to position there buddy, but if centres are more commonly that leader because they can have more impact and wilt was a complete game changer at that end somehow you use that against him ? Or that it’s irrelevant.

Size helps and wilt had more. The fact that he was a better playmaker and athlete is just all the more impressive at his size.



Mj was not the Russell of his era. Russel won 11 championships in 13 years two years he didn’t win it all he lost in finals and east finals. Jordan had 9 years he failed to make finals (2 years failed to make the playoffs 3 years failed to advance past the first round)

When jordan entered the league he inherited a crap team that was a joke. Have you ever heard of Orlando Woolridge? That was his best teammate for several years. Pippen wasnt very good his first few years in the league. But he stayed with the bulls and won 6 chips. Le bron has switched teams every time the going gets tough. Jordan would have stayed in cleveland and built a winner. Le bron leaves when he loses.

[MavsPride99]

Yes. Wilt was better at doing things that a Center is supposed to be better than a guard at. There's this thing called leading a team to success. MJ did that better than Wilt ever did. Russell was the MJ of that era. Wilt was the stats star.

James Harden is the Wilt of his era. Lebron is the Kareem. MJ was the Russell.

If James harden could lead a team like the current rockets over a team like the durrant warriors then you can mention him in the same sentence with wilt without looking like you have zero understanding of basketball history.

Lebron Kareem isn’t as bad of a comparison but as of now lebron was still the clear finals mvp unlike as Kareem won with lakers and magic started to take over. My last post covers what needs to be said about Russell and MJ. They do share the similarity of having a stacked team (for Jordan’s second three peat )

Stacked team his second three peat??? Team wasnt stacked just had chemistry. They started longley at center and ron harper at guard. Kukoc was the 6 man but he was overrated. le bron has never won on a team that wasnt stacked. He has played with Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, Ray Allen, and Anthony Davis in his career. Who has played on stacked teams?

[Lukeem]

Yes. Wilt was better at doing things that a Center is supposed to be better than a guard at. There's this thing called leading a team to success. MJ did that better than Wilt ever did. Russell was the MJ of that era. Wilt was the stats star.

Wow what a garbage take .... centres are supposed to lead their team / the league in assists ? I never knew since wilt was the only to ever do that. Defence is also universal to position there buddy, but if centres are more commonly that leader because they can have more impact and wilt was a complete game changer at that end somehow you use that against him ? Or that it’s irrelevant.

Size helps and wilt had more. The fact that he was a better playmaker and athlete is just all the more impressive at his size.



Mj was not the Russell of his era. Russel won 11 championships in 13 years two years he didn’t win it all he lost in finals and east finals. Jordan had 9 years he failed to make finals (2 years failed to make the playoffs 3 years failed to advance past the first round)

When jordan entered the league he inherited a crap team that was a joke. Have you ever heard of Orlando Woolridge? That was his best teammate for several years. Pippen wasnt very good his first few years in the league. But he stayed with the bulls and won 6 chips. Le bron has switched teams every time the going gets tough. Jordan would have stayed in cleveland and built a winner. Le bron leaves when he loses.

That’s one way to look at it.

Jordan also quit three times when things got tough. Like literally quit.

Lebron moving to the lakers was clearly not taking the easy way. That team sucked. They were able to add one good player in his second year. Kind of like how bulls were able to add Ron Harper and Dennis rodman along with Jordan to an already contending team. If they didn’t do that bulls might have never won again because those last three rings Jordan played worse than lebron in every finals other than when lebron carried a similarly horrible team as the team Jordan inherited, but lebron took them to the finals.

[Lukeem]

James Harden is the Wilt of his era. Lebron is the Kareem. MJ was the Russell.

If James harden could lead a team like the current rockets over a team like the durrant warriors then you can mention him in the same sentence with wilt without looking like you have zero understanding of basketball history.

Lebron Kareem isn’t as bad of a comparison but as of now lebron was still the clear finals mvp unlike as Kareem won with lakers and magic started to take over. My last post covers what needs to be said about Russell and MJ. They do share the similarity of having a stacked team (for Jordan’s second three peat )

Stacked team his second three peat??? Team wasnt stacked just had chemistry. They started longley at center and ron harper at guard. Kukoc was the 6 man but he was overrated. le bron has never won on a team that wasnt stacked. He has played with Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, Ray Allen, and Anthony Davis in his career. Who has played on stacked teams?

The team wins 55 games makes it 1 game away from the east finals (lost in Seven to the Knicks when the year previous they won in six vs Knicks (with Jordan))

They add Dennis Rodman, Michael Jordan and Ron Harper... Scottie Pippen is still in his prime, Toni kokuc is no longer a rookie and you think that team isn’t stacked?

I never said lebron hasn’t played on stacked teams. Heat were absolutely stacked.

[MavsPride99]

Wow what a garbage take .... centres are supposed to lead their team / the league in assists ? I never knew since wilt was the only to ever do that. Defence is also universal to position there buddy, but if centres are more commonly that leader because they can have more impact and wilt was a complete game changer at that end somehow you use that against him ? Or that it’s irrelevant.

Size helps and wilt had more. The fact that he was a better playmaker and athlete is just all the more impressive at his size.



Mj was not the Russell of his era. Russel won 11 championships in 13 years two years he didn’t win it all he lost in finals and east finals. Jordan had 9 years he failed to make finals (2 years failed to make the playoffs 3 years failed to advance past the first round)

When jordan entered the league he inherited a crap team that was a joke. Have you ever heard of Orlando Woolridge? That was his best teammate for several years. Pippen wasnt very good his first few years in the league. But he stayed with the bulls and won 6 chips. Le bron has switched teams every time the going gets tough. Jordan would have stayed in cleveland and built a winner. Le bron leaves when he loses.

That’s one way to look at it.

Jordan also quit three times when things got tough. Like literally quit.

Lebron moving to the lakers was clearly not taking the easy way. That team sucked. They were able to add one good player in his second year. Kind of like how bulls were able to add Ron Harper and Dennis rodman along with Jordan to an already contending team. If they didn’t do that bulls might have never won again because those last three rings Jordan played worse than lebron in every finals other than when lebron carried a similarly horrible team as the team Jordan inherited, but lebron took them to the finals.

Are you serious???? Added one good player?? Freaking Anthony Davis is a top five player in the NBA....your comparing adding ron harper and rodman to adding anthony davis??? Rodman would grab 18 boards and add a fat nothing to the scoreboard. Harper was washed up when he played with the Bulls. And no way Le Excuse Le Fake Cast player better than Jordan. Jordan hit three game winners against Utah in the finals alone in 98. Le Excuse just gets Kyrie, Ray Allen and Anthony Davis to take the big boy shots for him lol. Just stop kid

[MavsPride99]

If James harden could lead a team like the current rockets over a team like the durrant warriors then you can mention him in the same sentence with wilt without looking like you have zero understanding of basketball history.

Lebron Kareem isn’t as bad of a comparison but as of now lebron was still the clear finals mvp unlike as Kareem won with lakers and magic started to take over. My last post covers what needs to be said about Russell and MJ. They do share the similarity of having a stacked team (for Jordan’s second three peat )

Stacked team his second three peat??? Team wasnt stacked just had chemistry. They started longley at center and ron harper at guard. Kukoc was the 6 man but he was overrated. le bron has never won on a team that wasnt stacked. He has played with Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, Ray Allen, and Anthony Davis in his career. Who has played on stacked teams?

The team wins 55 games makes it 1 game away from the east finals (lost in Seven to the Knicks when the year previous they won in six vs Knicks (with Jordan))

They add Dennis Rodman, Michael Jordan and Ron Harper... Scottie Pippen is still in his prime, Toni kokuc is no longer a rookie and you think that team isn’t stacked?

I never said lebron hasn’t played on stacked teams. Heat were absolutely stacked.

The Bulls used the triangle offense which is ball movement and player involvement. Le Excuse cant play without the ball in his hands. Thats why his teams struggle when he goes to the bench or quits the team. Cleveland was also stacked. Kyrie was a #1 pick and they traded for Love who was a multiple time all star. By the way, go look at Kyrie Irvings stats during the 2016 finals. Quit acting like Le Bron carried that team. He didnt. Also Jordan retired, he didnt cry like a baby and go play for another team cause it was too tough. Also, i never saw Jordan or my guy Dirk Diggler walk off the court like a toddler before the game is over like le bron did against Miami. Poor loser

[dk1115]

I can't imagine how much of a grind it is to actually make it to the finals every single year. Your season is basically 2 months longer than everyone else, EVERY YEAR.

[Lukeem]

When jordan entered the league he inherited a crap team that was a joke. Have you ever heard of Orlando Woolridge? That was his best teammate for several years. Pippen wasnt very good his first few years in the league. But he stayed with the bulls and won 6 chips. Le bron has switched teams every time the going gets tough. Jordan would have stayed in cleveland and built a winner. Le bron leaves when he loses.

That’s one way to look at it.

Jordan also quit three times when things got tough. Like literally quit.

Lebron moving to the lakers was clearly not taking the easy way. That team sucked. They were able to add one good player in his second year. Kind of like how bulls were able to add Ron Harper and Dennis rodman along with Jordan to an already contending team. If they didn’t do that bulls might have never won again because those last three rings Jordan played worse than lebron in every finals other than when lebron carried a similarly horrible team as the team Jordan inherited, but lebron took them to the finals.

Are you serious???? Added one good player?? Freaking Anthony Davis is a top five player in the NBA....your comparing adding ron harper and rodman to adding anthony davis??? Rodman would grab 18 boards and add a fat nothing to the scoreboard. Harper was washed up when he played with the Bulls. And no way Le Excuse Le Fake Cast player better than Jordan. Jordan hit three game winners against Utah in the finals alone in 98. Le Excuse just gets Kyrie, Ray Allen and Anthony Davis to take the big boy shots for him lol. Just stop kid

Swing and a miss short stop- try reading again.


Jordan added himself to a 55 win team, they also added along with him the best rebounder / a top defender / hall of famer and another strong role player.

Lebron joined a crap lakers team If he just wanted the easy way he would have joined like almost any other team.

But if you want to argue that the lakers this year minus lebron were better than the second three peat bulls minus Jordan, than good luck with that and I’ll stop talking while you portray a perfect example of the Dunning Kruger effect.

[Lukeem]

Stacked team his second three peat??? Team wasnt stacked just had chemistry. They started longley at center and ron harper at guard. Kukoc was the 6 man but he was overrated. le bron has never won on a team that wasnt stacked. He has played with Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, Ray Allen, and Anthony Davis in his career. Who has played on stacked teams?

The team wins 55 games makes it 1 game away from the east finals (lost in Seven to the Knicks when the year previous they won in six vs Knicks (with Jordan))

They add Dennis Rodman, Michael Jordan and Ron Harper... Scottie Pippen is still in his prime, Toni kokuc is no longer a rookie and you think that team isn’t stacked?

I never said lebron hasn’t played on stacked teams. Heat were absolutely stacked.

The Bulls used the triangle offense which is ball movement and player involvement. Le Excuse cant play without the ball in his hands. Thats why his teams struggle when he goes to the bench or quits the team. Cleveland was also stacked. Kyrie was a #1 pick and they traded for Love who was a multiple time all star. By the way, go look at Kyrie Irvings stats during the 2016 finals. Quit acting like Le Bron carried that team. He didnt. Also Jordan retired, he didnt cry like a baby and go play for another team cause it was too tough. Also, i never saw Jordan or my guy Dirk Diggler walk off the court like a toddler before the game is over like le bron did against Miami. Poor loser

Lebron lead them in scoring with 30pg
Rebounding with 11
Assists with 9
Steals with 2.6
Blocks with 2.3
While shooting 49% from the floor
And 37 from 3

I guess if somebody knows nothing about basketball I can see how they might get confused and not see how he carried that team. Even Jordan fans are going to think you’re just being dumb with statements like that.

I don’t like lebron as a player for many reasons some you mentioned and others you didn’t. But him team hoping, or pouting or flopping or anything else has no bearing on how good he is at basketball. Sorry if it’s hurts your feelings. But let’s revisit this. Jordan literally quit basketball 3 times because it got too hard and you’re trying to bring down lebron because he changed teams? Every time since Miami he’s left it has been for joining a worse team.

[VanWest82]

Jordan added himself to a 55 win team, they also added along with him the best rebounder / a top defender / hall of famer and another strong role player.

You can keep saying this over and over but no one's buying it. MJ joined a .500 team. That's what they were when he came back in 95. And yes they brought in Rodman the next year who was turning 35, a giant minus on offense, and on his way out of the league. He was a far cry from HoGrant who was in his prime and had the best season of his career on that 55 win team. Rodman proved to be a nice piece in 96, and was still ok in 97, then a disaster in 98. Lets stop pretending like he was this godsend for them.

[Lukeem]

Jordan added himself to a 55 win team, they also added along with him the best rebounder / a top defender / hall of famer and another strong role player.

You can keep saying this over and over but no one's buying it. MJ joined a .500 team. That's what they were when he came back in 95. And yes they brought in Rodman the next year who was turning 35, a giant minus on offense, and on his way out of the league. He was a far cry from HoGrant who was in his prime and had the best season of his career on that 55 win team. Rodman proved to be a nice piece in 96, and was still ok in 97, then a disaster in 98. Lets stop pretending like he was this godsend for them.

You’re pretending like Horace Grant was a godsend more than I’m pretending the guy who led the league in rebounding by a wide margin each of those three years is. Rodman also was over 1.5 offensive ws each of those three years when zone defence still wasn’t allowed so his lack of shooting couldn’t be exposed.

Bulls won 55 games led by Pippen and were contenders, next year they were above 500 before Jordan joined them.

If you want to act like that bulls team was worse than the lakers that lebron joined you’re alone on homer Jordan island there.

[KyRo23]

What is it that Jordan couldn't do at 35? Complete a 3 peat and actually be deserving of FMVP?

Are you implying that LeBron didn't deserve finals MVP. what a bad take.

If AD deserved anything it's DPOY which is ironic from your username.

[Kingsway_fan]

http://archive.nba.com/encyclopedia/wilts_records.html

The Greatest of all time says Hi ....

[Kingsway_fan]

What rules did the NBA changed for Wilt?
These rules changed included widening the lane, instituting offensive goaltending and revising rules governing inbounding the ball and shooting free throws (Chamberlain would leap with the ball from behind the foul line to deposit the ball in the basket).

[Kingsway_fan]

Wilt Chamberlain Reportedly Had A Quintuple-Double With 53 Points, 32 Rebounds, 14 Assists, 24 Blocks, And 11 Steals. Triple-doubles are a relatively rare feat in the NBA. ... On March 18th, 1968 the NBA's greatest record breaker allegedly did something amazing: a quintuple-double (the first and only one in NBA history).

[Lukeem]

Stacked team his second three peat??? Team wasnt stacked just had chemistry. They started longley at center and ron harper at guard. Kukoc was the 6 man but he was overrated. le bron has never won on a team that wasnt stacked. He has played with Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, Ray Allen, and Anthony Davis in his career. Who has played on stacked teams?

The team wins 55 games makes it 1 game away from the east finals (lost in Seven to the Knicks when the year previous they won in six vs Knicks (with Jordan))

They add Dennis Rodman, Michael Jordan and Ron Harper... Scottie Pippen is still in his prime, Toni kokuc is no longer a rookie and you think that team isn’t stacked?

I never said lebron hasn’t played on stacked teams. Heat were absolutely stacked.

The Bulls used the triangle offense which is ball movement and player involvement. Le Excuse cant play without the ball in his hands. Thats why his teams struggle when he goes to the bench or quits the team. Cleveland was also stacked. Kyrie was a #1 pick and they traded for Love who was a multiple time all star. By the way, go look at Kyrie Irvings stats during the 2016 finals. Quit acting like Le Bron carried that team. He didnt. Also Jordan retired, he didnt cry like a baby and go play for another team cause it was too tough. Also, i never saw Jordan or my guy Dirk Diggler walk off the court like a toddler before the game is over like le bron did against Miami. Poor loser

You might also want to stop using kyrie as an example of why lebrons teams were stacked.

Cleveland was atrocious before lebron came back. Then when kyrie left they were 1 win worse the next season with same playoff success.

Boston was always better without kyrie and so was Brooklyn. Despite his talent he has yet to make teams better.