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2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch - Revised Poll

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

Who do you prefer of the following prospects?

Desmond Bane
12
41%
Saddiq Bey
1
3%
RJ Hampton
1
3%
Kira Lewis Jr
4
14%
Tyrese Maxey
2
7%
Aaron Nesmith
2
7%
Isaac Okoro
1
3%
Jalen Smith
2
7%
Tyrell Terry
2
7%
Patrick Williams
2
7%
 
Total votes: 29

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1861 » by Kerrsed » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:48 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:My Current lotto mock (No Trades)

1. MIN: Edwards. Supposedly the best fit for the team. Supposedly star talent. Most other top 5 names just dont make sense fit wise.
2. GS: Ball. Has star talent. GS will grab him strictly for the value.
3. CHA: Wiseman. Hornets need a C, he has top talent, and the CHA Board love him. Insiders have also mentioned that CHA might trade up to make sure they land Wiseman.
4. CHI: Avdija. A favorite of Bulls fans. Definitely fits a need.
5. CLE: Toppin. High level Hometown Hero (Dayton). Looks to be Loves replacement.
6. ATL: Haliburton. Great fit behind Trae.
7. DET: Okongwu. They suck at drafting, but hit a homerun here. They get the defensive C they need.
8. NYK: Hayes. All their PG's are trash that cant score. High risk high reward.
9. WAS: Okoro. They need defense and wings, so they grab the best defensive SF in the draft.
10. PHX: Bane. Once again JJ says "Screw the mocks" and drafts the guy they like regardless of reaching.
11. SAS: Williams. Total Spurs kinda guy.
12. SAC: Achiuwa. Already looks good in Purple. Probably their best C prospect since Cousins left.
13. NOP: Nesmith. Gotta surround Zion with shooters, and he is one of the drafts best.
14. BOS: Smith. Celtics are great when it comes to drafting and here they get one of the steals of the draft. The rich get richer.
15. ORL: Terry. They need shooting and scoring from their 2 guard spot. Here they get Poor Man's Curry.


Love the mock. Could definitely play out that way? :nod: By the way, No Vassell in the top 15??


I did have him penciled in at 11 to the Spurs as they seem to enjoy drafting defensive minded guards, but the more i read the more Williams fit perfectly. Pelicans could go that way, but i put in Nesmith as he is a much better shooter with a much better 3 point shot. I have Boston going with a big as they are already logjammed when it comes to Guards and Wings, Orlando could also be in play for Vassell, but once again, they need someone who can provide points more than anything and that screams Terry. Read lots of interest in Terry from Orlando, so i gave him the edge there.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1862 » by Saberestar » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:07 pm

I will go with my lotto mock too...

1. MIN: Toppin.
I think he is a sure thing and that has huge value in this meh draft.

2. GSW: Ball.
They will draft Ball for other team, I do not expect them to hold the player. They will receive a very good veteran player as Jrue Holiday or Bojan Bogdanovic for example for that pick.

3. CHA: Anthony Edwards.

4. CHI: Avdija.
With Karnisovas as their GM I think they draft the best european prospect.

5. CAVS: Haliburton
They need to go BPA, and they think that Haliburton can play next to Sexton
Garland to the bench.

6. HAWKS: Okoro

7. PIS: Hayes

8. NYK: Kira Lewis

9. WIZ: Okongwu.
They get their C of the future.

10. SUNS: Tyrell Terry
The FO wants a playmaker, shooter and smart player.

11. SPURS: Wiseman
12. SAC: Vassell
13. PELS: Maxey
14. BOS: Cole Anthony
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1863 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:15 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:My Current lotto mock (No Trades)

1. MIN: Edwards. Supposedly the best fit for the team. Supposedly star talent. Most other top 5 names just dont make sense fit wise.
2. GS: Ball. Has star talent. GS will grab him strictly for the value.
3. CHA: Wiseman. Hornets need a C, he has top talent, and the CHA Board love him. Insiders have also mentioned that CHA might trade up to make sure they land Wiseman.
4. CHI: Avdija. A favorite of Bulls fans. Definitely fits a need.
5. CLE: Toppin. High level Hometown Hero (Dayton). Looks to be Loves replacement.
6. ATL: Haliburton. Great fit behind Trae.
7. DET: Okongwu. They suck at drafting, but hit a homerun here. They get the defensive C they need.
8. NYK: Hayes. All their PG's are trash that cant score. High risk high reward.
9. WAS: Okoro. They need defense and wings, so they grab the best defensive SF in the draft.
10. PHX: Bane. Once again JJ says "Screw the mocks" and drafts the guy they like regardless of reaching.
11. SAS: Williams. Total Spurs kinda guy.
12. SAC: Achiuwa. Already looks good in Purple. Probably their best C prospect since Cousins left.
13. NOP: Nesmith. Gotta surround Zion with shooters, and he is one of the drafts best.
14. BOS: Smith. Celtics are great when it comes to drafting and here they get one of the steals of the draft. The rich get richer.
15. ORL: Terry. They need shooting and scoring from their 2 guard spot. Here they get Poor Man's Curry.


Love the mock. Could definitely play out that way? :nod: By the way, No Vassell in the top 15??


I did have him penciled in at 11 to the Spurs as they seem to enjoy drafting defensive minded guards, but the more i read the more Williams fit perfectly. Pelicans could go that way, but i put in Nesmith as he is a much better shooter with a much better 3 point shot. I have Boston going with a big as they are already logjammed when it comes to Guards and Wings, Orlando could also be in play for Vassell, but once again, they need someone who can provide points more than anything and that screams Terry. Read lots of interest in Terry from Orlando, so i gave him the edge there.


I really like Terry's potential too. Do you think that perhaps Washington/ Sacramento might have interest in him though?

By the way, What if...........

We did a 2 part trade though?
1- Phoenix/ Detroit:
Oubre for Kennard.

2- Phoenix/ Boston:
The 10th pick for the 14/ 26.
So we end up with Kennard.
14- Bane.
26- Tyler Bey or Paul Reed.

Or what IF we did this:
Phoenix/ Detroit/ Philly
https://tradenba.com/trades/M8MmX57hI

Or we could just keep Richardson and Oubre, And the 21st and 34th picks.
https://tradenba.com/trades/M4dQAHoJQ
- Richardson ( Defensive compliment to Booker).
21- Bane.
34- Paul Reed or Daniel Oturu ( 4/5)???
** Buy a mid to late 2nd for Sam Merrill or Tyshon Alexander?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1864 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:33 pm

What about this trade Kerrsed?
Phoenix/ Detroit/ Philly/ Chicago
https://tradenba.com/trades/NJKaiEw_n
21- Tyler Bey ( elite versatile defender between Richardson and Markannen).
34- Isiah Joe ( elite perimeter shooting).

Or vice versa. Same trade, Only :
21- Desmond Bane.
34- Paul Reed.
** Buy a 2nd for Reggie Perry or Daniel Oturu to be our backup 4/5.

With this trade, We still have around 23 million in cap space IF WE renounce our cap holds for Baynes and Saric, etc. Maybe we put that towards Grant- 42/3 ( ultimate defensive compliment next to Markannen)? Or perhaps we actually go hard after van Vleet for around 18- 20 million?

Rubio/ Booker/ Grant/ Markannen/ Ayton.
Richardson/ Bane/ Bey/ Cam/ Saric or Baynes.

Or if Van Vleet:

Van Vleet/ Booker/ Bridges/ Markannen/ Ayton.

Richardson/ Bane/ Reed/ Cam/ Oturu or Tillman?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1865 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:13 am

Kerrsed wrote:Found this post kinda interesting:

Here are the list of non NCAA prospects who went in the lottery since 2010.

Enes Kanter
Jonas Valanciunas
Jan Vesely
Bismack Biyombo
Dario Saric
Dante Exum
Mario Hezonja
Emmanuel Mudiay
Kristaps Porziņgis
Dragan Bender
Thon Maker (HS)
Georgios Papagiannis
Frank Ntilikina
Luka Doncic
Sekou Doumbouya

15 total prospects
1 superstar
1 potential star
Couple role players
9-10 busts


Yeah there have definitely been some lotto busts. But if you did this exercise with all lotto picks in general I'm not sure the results are a whole lot different. With 15 guys you could view that as 1 lottery, one MVP candidate, another max extension guy in zinger, solid starter in Val, biyombo and kanter have both made a good chunk of money and long careers (lots of lotto guys would love to have their careers. Saric is a rotation guy who is going to get a decent contract. Sekou actually looked ok late last season. If you took 5 random lotteries and compared them to this I'd guess it would be above average.


Now if you expand this to after the lotto then you have some big time hits like Giannis, Jokic, Gobert, ect.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1866 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:55 am

Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
What do you think about this proposed draft night trade between Phoenix and New York via @TheAthletic?

Suns: No. 8 pick (Tyrese Haliburton), Reggie Bullock

Knicks: No. 10 pick (Devin Vassell), Kelly Oubre Jr.
Read on Twitter
?s=20

The premise of course being to then use the additional cap space from moving Oubre to pursue a big name free agent, Ala Van Vleet, Gallinari, etc?

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/rumor-nba-draft-2020-a-trade-phoenix-suns-new-york-knicks-involving-kelly-oubre-jr-benefit-parties-involved
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1867 » by darealjuice » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:54 am

I wouldn't be interested in that. Giving Van Vleet the deal he'll be looking for doesn't make sense after drafting Haliburton at 8, and I don't think I'd want to pay Gallo the contract he'd be looking for to play here over paying Oubre a similar amount. This free agent class doesn't really have anyone I'm comfortable giving a sizable, multi-year contract to either.

It doesn't make sense to me to trade Oubre because we don't want to pay him, only to spend all of our money to an aging, injury prone veteran like Gallo. I'd rather stick at 10, use our cap space to fill out the weak points of our roster, and run it back if we're not packaging him for an immediate upgrade. If we keep him in free agency, then great; otherwise we'll have plenty of money in a good free agent class with a team (hopefully) on the upswing.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1868 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:57 am

EmpireOfTheSuns (@EmpireOfTheSuns) Tweeted:
NEW POD: @KZimmermanAZ and @KellanOlson wrap up a preview of the top prospects for the Suns in this draft by analyzing the bigs: https://t.co/Jrvq0kJ67u
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1869 » by DirtyDez » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:38 am



Two things that stood out right away; Haliburton looks skinny and slow. Riller has a low release on his shot right in front of his eyes.

Just useless clips though...
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1870 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:56 am

darealjuice wrote:I wouldn't be interested in that. Giving Van Vleet the deal he'll be looking for doesn't make sense after drafting Haliburton at 8, and I don't think I'd want to pay Gallo the contract he'd be looking for to play here over paying Oubre a similar amount. This free agent class doesn't really have anyone I'm comfortable giving a sizable, multi-year contract to either.

It doesn't make sense to me to trade Oubre because we don't want to pay him, only to spend all of our money to an aging, injury prone veteran like Gallo. I'd rather stick at 10, use our cap space to fill out the weak points of our roster, and run it back if we're not packaging him for an immediate upgrade. If we keep him in free agency, then great; otherwise we'll have plenty of money in a good free agent class with a team (hopefully) on the upswing.


I agree with not taking Haliburton IF we plan to go after / sign Van Vleet. I'd in that situation, Look to either Toppin ( If he fell) Vassell or Avdija. Agree with not paying Gallo over 20 million, But don't agree with not being willing to pay him anything more than what Oubre is currently making, Because if we could even get him for around say 16-18 million,
Then that would be solid value honestly. Also because obviously Gallo is much better overall offensively! And would help to make us a top 5 offensive team in the league. And additionally, He could be a great mentor to Cam, As well as our young players, And is a longtime family friend/ mentor of Booker. So you score points with Book on that signing. :wink:


Also, I get that this summer's free agency is relatively shallow on high tier free agents, But I don't understand why everyone assumes that we'll be expected to have more success in 21' free agency, When the league will be saturated with teams having a ton of cap space. This situation will create much greater competition for key free agents, And very likely drive up bidding prices in order to secure your targets. I'd rather secure a quality impact player this summer, With interest in making the jump to being a playoff team. Since there will be significantly less competition this summer due to the lockdown and restrictive cap situation. So if we know that we either can't afford to, Or don't intend to resign Oubre, Then it makes little sense to hold onto him longer and his trade value will continue to depreciate the closer that he gets to actual unrestricted free agency.

The point is to optimize the returning value for Oubre. Now as you said, IF we have a plan and can afford to keep him, Then great! But if not, Then getting a large chunk of cap space to pursue an impact player AND other potential assets is great value, And a win for our team's direction.

I have mentioned before that the best way to go towards keeping Oubre is to utilize the draft to add low cost contractually controlled positional depth ( supporting cast) around Oubre / Booker/ Ayton. But because all three are primarily strongest on the offensive side of the ball, And Oubre is best at isolation and penetration scoring, We'd be best served to add prospects that are very versatile and switchable defenders, AND strong potentially elite 3 point shooters to create immense gravity to pull out defenders from the paint, And open up the lanes.

I believe that the front office will consider this with there speculated interest in Bane initially. But they should also be considering potentially elite low usage versatile utility defenders such as Vassell/ Tyler Bey/ Paul Reed/ Trevelin Queen etc. As these prospects still contribute to winning plays. But don't really need the ball in their hands to be effective. This way, They don't take away looks from Booker, Oubre, Ayton. :D

Lastly, I agree for the most part with not wanting to give a sizable contract to the majority of available free agents this particular summer. But I would however consider something reasonable for either Grant or Wood. As both are relatively low usage complimentary players that would have a significant impact on our team. And would also address key weaknesses and positional depth issues.

With Grant, Something around 42/3 ( 3rd yr team option). And with Wood, Maybe something around 30/3 ( 3rd yr team option). With benchmark incentives ( Bonuses) for production and statistical improvements ( To keep his energy/ work ethic high! I really like Wood actually, As he's basically a bigger, longer, better 3 pt shooting version of Oubre anyways. Both are Uber athletic, long, fast, play with energy and tenacity! Only Wood would be on a much cheaper deal. :wink:

If we can't get these targets, then just run it back as plan B with short 1 yr deals, Or a 2yr deal with a 2nd yr team option.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1871 » by AtheJ415 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:48 am

Saberestar wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:Not a fan of Lewis. Maybe if ALL other PGs at the top are taken, but he just doesn't do enough. His speed is elite, and he's not a terrible shooter, but we can get guys who do a lot more at 10.

Honestly this isn't a hard draft for us. Boatloads of PGs including a number who are big enough to play the 2. 2 PFs who have real arguments to be picks for us, and a SG who has the most well-rounded game in the draft. All can be there at 10.

Hayes, Haliburton, Vassell, Toppin, Avdija. Don't screw this up.

All of these guys are expected to be gone by #10, so we need to be ready to pick another player.

When asked about what he is looking for in this draft James Jones remarked playmaking IIRC. Kira is probably one of the best creating his own shot and he seems already a decent to solid facilitator and passer. At just 19 years old he has a lot of potential as an scoring PG, so I understand why he is a serious option at #10 for us.

With the way the league is changing with more and more defenses switching everything you need to have good shot creators to take advantage of mismatches. Kira is gonna be difficult to stop for big guys since day one.


The only positives in his advanced numbers for a PG is blocks. Outside of that I'll give him that he's young and fast. But despite that, he's an inefficient fast player who isn't a great defender and wasn't great in setting up his teammates. Vassell would eat his lunch imo across the board from both a physical traits and a skill perspective.

Also, one of Vassell and one of the other PGs will be there. If none of the PGs are there one of the PFs almost assuredly will be. Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, Okongwu will go in the top 10. That is 4 spots. That leaves 5 spots before we pick. I don't believe all 5 of the remaining picks before 10 are going to be PGs and PFs, or that they would have the same list of PGs ranked as I prefer here. I could easily see somebody reach for Pokusevski too. I would also consider Riller well before Kira personally. And Maxey. Hell even Sadiq Bey, Josh Green, and Nesmith potentially. We could probably very easily trade with Cleveland for one of their PGs, both of whom had much better games coming out of college.

If this was not a deep PG class or if we had a lower pick, I'd be fine with Kira, but I don't really see the point of drafting for athletic upside and positional fit when we have more needs than that. Besides, there are a number of better athletes with more skill who simply must be there at 10 by basic math. The draft would have to fall perfectly out of our order for us to not have any of the top PGs or PFs there, and essentially Wiseman or Okongwu would have to miraculously fall to us for that to happen.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1872 » by Saberestar » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:14 pm

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1873 » by Fo-Real » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:41 pm

I'm feeling Patrick Williams at 10!!!
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1874 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:51 pm

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30156573/nba-draft-sleepers-surprise-next-level

Tyler Bey:

A leaper built for the modern NBA?

One of the bounciest prospects in the draft and the Pac-12 Defensive Player of the Year, Colorado forward Tyler Bey has the length, activity and explosiveness to fit in today's NBA as an energy athlete.

The 6-foot-7 Bey was put in a lot of face-up situations as a junior on a team lacking scoring, which showed his shortcomings as a shot-creator and decision-maker rather than accentuating his strengths as an explosive finisher. According to Synergy, almost 30% of Bey's offense came out of the post.

Bey was still quite productive, posting a 26.8 player efficiency rating, yet he figures to pop even more in an up-tempo NBA game in which he can focus on running the floor, catching lobs, finding gaps in the defense, crashing the offensive glass and knocking down occasional catch-and-shoot 3s. Bey has progressed as a perimeter shooter over his college career, going 0-for-6 from 3 as a freshman and 5-for-22 (23%) as a sophomore to 13-for-31 (42%) as a junior. He still occasionally shoots a flat ball in drills, but he said he has been focused on his footwork and positioning, which has yielded better results.

If Bey, whose stock ranges anywhere from late first to the middle of the second round, is used as more of an energy forward or a small-ball big in the Brandon Clarke mold, he could add value when surrounded with better decision-makers on both ends.

Like fellow Colorado forward Andre Roberson before him, Bey also was one of the best rebounders in college basketball over the course of the past two seasons while serving as a defensive playmaker off the ball. He is one of only two prospects in our top 100 rankings to finish the season averaging at least 2.0 steals, 1.5 blocks and 12.0 rebounds per 40 minutes. While he still has room to improve in one-on-one situations, he flies around for blocks and steals off the ball thanks to his 7-foot wingspan and 42-inch vertical, seeing himself in a Shawn Marion-type role in the NBA.

"I feel like I'm just like [Marion]," Bey said. "Wingspan, bodywise, gamewise. I feel like I could be just like him. High motor, high energy. A guy who loves to hustle and does the little things no one wants to do."








I really like Tyler Bey as a very strong consideration for our frontcourt, As he's very long, fast, Uber athletic, is a very high IQ versatile and switchable defender, And is absolutely ELITE as a rebounder and shotblocker for his size. Truly, He's capable of guarding 1-4, And even the 5 in small ball lineups. If he's put Alongside of Bridges, We'd have an absolutely ELITE suffocating, and utterly disruptive defense. With both creating immense havoc with their steals, blocks, deflections all over the court! And Tyler Beys'
defensive awareness and defensive playmaking is also elite too. He could be a lynchpin defensive anchor and ultimate defensive glue guy for our team next to Bridges or as the ultimate defensive compliment for Oubre and/ or Cam. He's the ultimate value acquisition for us, if we pick up an additional late first/ early 2nd in a trade back scenario. :D
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1875 » by darealjuice » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:12 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:I agree with not taking Haliburton IF we plan to go after / sign Van Vleet. I'd in that situation, Look to either Toppin ( If he fell) Vassell or Avdija. Agree with not paying Gallo over 20 million, But don't agree with not being willing to pay him anything more than what Oubre is currently making, Because if we could even get him for around say 16-18 million,
Then that would be solid value honestly. Also because obviously Gallo is much better overall offensively! And would help to make us a top 5 offensive team in the league. And additionally, He could be a great mentor to Cam, As well as our young players, And is a longtime family friend/ mentor of Booker. So you score points with Book on that signing. :wink:


Also, I get that this summer's free agency is relatively shallow on high tier free agents, But I don't understand why everyone assumes that we'll be expected to have more success in 21' free agency, When the league will be saturated with teams having a ton of cap space. This situation will create much greater competition for key free agents, And very likely drive up bidding prices in order to secure your targets. I'd rather secure a quality impact player this summer, With interest in making the jump to being a playoff team. Since there will be significantly less competition this summer due to the lockdown and restrictive cap situation. So if we know that we either can't afford to, Or don't intend to resign Oubre, Then it makes little sense to hold onto him longer and his trade value will continue to depreciate the closer that he gets to actual unrestricted free agency.

The point is to optimize the returning value for Oubre. Now as you said, IF we have a plan and can afford to keep him, Then great! But if not, Then getting a large chunk of cap space to pursue an impact player AND other potential assets is great value, And a win for our team's direction.

I have mentioned before that the best way to go towards keeping Oubre is to utilize the draft to add low cost contractually controlled positional depth ( supporting cast) around Oubre / Booker/ Ayton. But because all three are primarily strongest on the offensive side of the ball, And Oubre is best at isolation and penetration scoring, We'd be best served to add prospects that are very versatile and switchable defenders, AND strong potentially elite 3 point shooters to create immense gravity to pull out defenders from the paint, And open up the lanes.

I believe that the front office will consider this with there speculated interest in Bane initially. But they should also be considering potentially elite low usage versatile utility defenders such as Vassell/ Tyler Bey/ Paul Reed/ Trevelin Queen etc. As these prospects still contribute to winning plays. But don't really need the ball in their hands to be effective. This way, They don't take away looks from Booker, Oubre, Ayton. :D

Lastly, I agree for the most part with not wanting to give a sizable contract to the majority of available free agents this particular summer. But I would however consider something reasonable for either Grant or Wood. As both are relatively low usage complimentary players that would have a significant impact on our team. And would also address key weaknesses and positional depth issues.

With Grant, Something around 42/3 ( 3rd yr team option). And with Wood, Maybe something around 30/3 ( 3rd yr team option). With benchmark incentives ( Bonuses) for production and statistical improvements ( To keep his energy/ work ethic high! I really like Wood actually, As he's basically a bigger, longer, better 3 pt shooting version of Oubre anyways. Both are Uber athletic, long, fast, play with energy and tenacity! Only Wood would be on a much cheaper deal. :wink:

If we can't get these targets, then just run it back as plan B with short 1 yr deals, Or a 2yr deal with a 2nd yr team option.


I’m not a big Gallinari fan. He’s a good player, but his cost, age, injury history, and fit with the team concern me. He brings shooting, but you also don’t want to relegate him to a spot shooter role for that money, and his defense leaves something to be desired compared to Kelly.

I don’t think it’s guaranteed that we have more success in free agency next year, but if we’re trading Oubre to open up cap space this year without a meaningful return (unless you really value moving up 2 spots and Bullock) then I don’t see a big difference in letting him expire. I don’t mind trading him, but I’d rather package him for an upgrade if we’re trading him. I would hope that another year of improvement for Booker, Ayton, Bridges, and Cam would make us a more attractive destination though. In my mind, there are bigger and better fish in the pond even if there are more fishing poles, and there will still be free agents of this year’s caliber as well after the big money starts to dry up.

It’s a tough situation with Kelly. He’s a young player that fits the versatile wing trend, brings visible intensity unlike anyone else on the team, and has improved with us given expanded opportunity. I like Grant, and Wood interests me though. Tough to say who I’d rather have when the amount of money they’d make is up in the air though.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1876 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:25 pm

darealjuice wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:I agree with not taking Haliburton IF we plan to go after / sign Van Vleet. I'd in that situation, Look to either Toppin ( If he fell) Vassell or Avdija. Agree with not paying Gallo over 20 million, But don't agree with not being willing to pay him anything more than what Oubre is currently making, Because if we could even get him for around say 16-18 million,
Then that would be solid value honestly. Also because obviously Gallo is much better overall offensively! And would help to make us a top 5 offensive team in the league. And additionally, He could be a great mentor to Cam, As well as our young players, And is a longtime family friend/ mentor of Booker. So you score points with Book on that signing. :wink:


Also, I get that this summer's free agency is relatively shallow on high tier free agents, But I don't understand why everyone assumes that we'll be expected to have more success in 21' free agency, When the league will be saturated with teams having a ton of cap space. This situation will create much greater competition for key free agents, And very likely drive up bidding prices in order to secure your targets. I'd rather secure a quality impact player this summer, With interest in making the jump to being a playoff team. Since there will be significantly less competition this summer due to the lockdown and restrictive cap situation. So if we know that we either can't afford to, Or don't intend to resign Oubre, Then it makes little sense to hold onto him longer and his trade value will continue to depreciate the closer that he gets to actual unrestricted free agency.

The point is to optimize the returning value for Oubre. Now as you said, IF we have a plan and can afford to keep him, Then great! But if not, Then getting a large chunk of cap space to pursue an impact player AND other potential assets is great value, And a win for our team's direction.

I have mentioned before that the best way to go towards keeping Oubre is to utilize the draft to add low cost contractually controlled positional depth ( supporting cast) around Oubre / Booker/ Ayton. But because all three are primarily strongest on the offensive side of the ball, And Oubre is best at isolation and penetration scoring, We'd be best served to add prospects that are very versatile and switchable defenders, AND strong potentially elite 3 point shooters to create immense gravity to pull out defenders from the paint, And open up the lanes.

I believe that the front office will consider this with there speculated interest in Bane initially. But they should also be considering potentially elite low usage versatile utility defenders such as Vassell/ Tyler Bey/ Paul Reed/ Trevelin Queen etc. As these prospects still contribute to winning plays. But don't really need the ball in their hands to be effective. This way, They don't take away looks from Booker, Oubre, Ayton. :D

Lastly, I agree for the most part with not wanting to give a sizable contract to the majority of available free agents this particular summer. But I would however consider something reasonable for either Grant or Wood. As both are relatively low usage complimentary players that would have a significant impact on our team. And would also address key weaknesses and positional depth issues.

With Grant, Something around 42/3 ( 3rd yr team option). And with Wood, Maybe something around 30/3 ( 3rd yr team option). With benchmark incentives ( Bonuses) for production and statistical improvements ( To keep his energy/ work ethic high! I really like Wood actually, As he's basically a bigger, longer, better 3 pt shooting version of Oubre anyways. Both are Uber athletic, long, fast, play with energy and tenacity! Only Wood would be on a much cheaper deal. :wink:

If we can't get these targets, then just run it back as plan B with short 1 yr deals, Or a 2yr deal with a 2nd yr team option.


I’m not a big Gallinari fan. He’s a good player, but his cost, age, injury history, and fit with the team concern me. He brings shooting, but you also don’t want to relegate him to a spot shooter role for that money, and his defense leaves something to be desired compared to Kelly.

I don’t think it’s guaranteed that we have more success in free agency next year, but if we’re trading Oubre to open up cap space this year without a meaningful return (unless you really value moving up 2 spots and Bullock) then I don’t see a big difference in letting him expire. I don’t mind trading him, but I’d rather package him for an upgrade if we’re trading him. I would hope that another year of improvement for Booker, Ayton, Bridges, and Cam would make us a more attractive destination though. In my mind, there are bigger and better fish in the pond even if there are more fishing poles, and there will still be free agents of this year’s caliber as well after the big money starts to dry up.

It’s a tough situation with Kelly. He’s a young player that fits the versatile wing trend, brings visible intensity unlike anyone else on the team, and has improved with us given expanded opportunity. I like Grant, and Wood interests me though. Tough to say who I’d rather have when the amount of money they’d make is up in the air though.



You make a very fair and compelling argument. :wink:

And again, I wouldn't endorse openly trading Oubre UNLESS I was certain that we couldn't afford to resign Oubre, Or IF we ( Suns front office) find through discussions, that he doesn't in fact INTEND TO resign with us anyways. And in that scenario, Our front office has a specific target in mind to pursue? Possibly with expressed mutual interest. Otherwise Yes, I would rather keep Oubre, But not for anything more than say around 18 million. OR IF it had to be 20 million (TOP OFFER), Then he'd have to be willing to agree to a declining scale contract. Something very similiar to Aaron Gordons' current de-escalating contract, I might include some minor scalable bonuses in the deal for improved shooting efficiency, And passing? But if he's not agreeable to that offer, Then he can go ahead and walk. Though, I personally would find greater value in perhaps either trading him to Detroit for Kennard and cap space. And then trading the 10th pick to either Chicago for Markannen. Or to Orlando for Gordon? Then you could be getting a return of either:
Kennard/ Markannen And possibly up to 25 million in cap space, IF we renounce Baynes (Cap hold), decline the options for Kaminsky, Okobo, Diallo, and Owens. And then bring back Saric at around 8 million. We then use that 25 million to sign Grant to around 42/3. Then Add Justin Holiday at around 7 million. And perhaps Burks or Shaquille Harrison at around 3 million per ( 2 yr deal/ 2nd yr team option).

But in that scenario, Oubre/10 becomes Markannen/ Kennard and Grant. That's a much better return than simply letting Oubre expire, And then trying to take our chances in 2021 free agency in my opinion.

Or the other option being Oubre and the 10 becoming Gordon/ Kennard? Then you look to add Burks, And maybe Shaq Harrison into the Mle on short term deals. And IF Detroit doesn't want Oubre, Then i'm fine with keeping him, And in this scenario, I'll then look to trade the 10th pick to Boston for Poirier/ Ojeleye (**salary taken back for 30th pick)/ 14/ 26/30th picks.
**Poirier can replace Baynes for one season.
**Ojeleye can fill a PJ Tucker role at backup 3/4 for one season. This move ( Poirier/ Ojeleye) saves Boston around 4 million in salary this summer. :nod:

14- Desmond Bane. **Elite shooting to open up the paint for Oubre/ Booker.
26- Tyler Bey. Elite multi positional versatile defensive wing ( defensive compliment to Oubre/Booker/ Ayton on offense).
30- Add Xavier Tillman or Daniel Oturu ( To replace Poirier in 2021). And both have high impact high upside potential!
In free agency, Resign Saric at around 7-8 million, Then in free agency, I'd look to add Rondo or Reggie Jackson ( 1 yr deal) for our backcourt needs, And to compliment Bane.

potential lineup WITH Oubre:
-Rubio/Booker/Bridges/ Oubre/ Ayton.
-Rondo/ Bane/ T.Bey/ Cam/ Saric.
- Payne/ Carter/Ojeleye/Oturu / Poirier.
Head into 21 free agency with max cap space? ( Only 10 million though IF we resign Oubre to anything around 20 million)? :dontknow:
But maybe, In 2021, If Giannis were willing to resign, A package built around .............

Ayton/ Cam/ Oubre ( sign n' trade)?/ Bey / 3 firsts would be enough to bring him here?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1877 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:53 pm

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1878 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:49 pm

https://nesn.com/2020/10/celtics-rumors-boston-interested-in-moving-up-in-2020-nba-draft/

Celtics Rumors:

Boston Interested In Moving Up In 2020 NBA Draft?

The C's currently own the No. 14, No. 26 and No. 30 picks

by Ricky Doyle


I'd love to trade the 10 for the 14/ 26.
14- Bane.
26- Tyler Bey or Paul Reed or Reggie Perry?

Or go with a high level big first and backcourt player 2nd.
14- Precious Achiuwa. ( Can be our bigger Jerami Grant). :nod:
26- Bane ( IF he's there) otherwise Malachi Flynn or Tre Jones? Or Grant Riller IF HE'S THERE??? or even Isiah Joe ( Elite shooter).
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1879 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:02 pm

Bleacher Report (@BleacherReport) Tweeted:
7'3" 16-year-old prospect Victor Wembanyama went off in his France debut @brhoops

22 PTS | 10 REB | 7 BLK

(via @ffsbasketball)
https://t.co/t66wOtNwU1
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Very intriguing prospect for the 2022/ 2023 draft. Could he become a hybrid version of Gobert/ Porzingis? :dontknow:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1880 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:09 pm

Ball Don't Stop (@balldontstop) Tweeted:
Tyrell Terry is going to be the steal of the NBA Draft

Nice feel for the game, can score it at all 3 levels, make plays, but his outside shooting is what stands out. Makes tough shots off the dribble, catch and pulls up. May be the most skilled prospect.

@CourtsideFilms https://t.co/9vodA8AR7V
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Another great trade back guard option with ELITE SHOOTING IF Bane would happen to be gone. :nod: He'd provide us with a genuine lethal inside/ out game. I'd consider Achiuwa at 14, And then Terry at 26? Or perhaps Terry at 14, And then Achiuwa ( If he falls) or else Reggie Perry or Xavier Tillman at 26? :nod:
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