2019-20 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2

[fbalmeida]

The idea that Giannis is getting traded strikes me as utter nonsense. For a multitude of reasons.

Consider one:

The Bucks will be in contention for a title this season, pretty much to the same degree as they were last season. At what point amidst a title run do you think trading away Giannis, based solely on his rejection of a supermax, becomes the logical thing to do for the franchise?

It would make the exact same sense as trading away Kawhi at the deadline in 2019, for having affirmed from the get go that his intention was to run his contract to its terminus.

I understand the need for counterfactual mental exercises as much as the next guy, but let's be real here.

Barring a complete team mid-season meltdown, there is no way the Bucks are trading Giannis.

[Mattatron]

You don't trade 25 year old 2-time MVPs.

It's not going to happen, ever, unless the team suffers a complete breakdown in chemistry mid-season.

So stop it.

Giannis will be meeting with the Cuban, Masai, and Riley in the summer of 2021.

and if you are a franchise like Milwaukee in Milwaukee, Wisconsin; you just cannot afford to lose a 25 year old 2-time MVP&DPOY for nothing.

They can't afford trading the Reigning MVP and DpoY as long as they have a chance for the finals. A trade is not going to happen. If there's a chance for a trade - masai still don't trade siakam + og + td + 1stround picks. What's the lineup? 36 yo Lowry, Thomas, McCaw, Giannis and Ibaka? Lol
The Lakers Barometer from the AD trade is bs because ad said he only goes to LA so that's why the price was so high to get him.

[ash_k]

Spoiler:

The idea that Giannis is getting traded strikes me as utter nonsense. For a multitude of reasons.

Consider one:

The Bucks will be in contention for a title this season, pretty much to the same degree as they were last season. At what point amidst a title run do you think trading away Giannis, based solely on his rejection of a supermax, becomes the logical thing to do for the franchise?

It would make the exact same sense as trading away Kawhi at the deadline in 2019, for having affirmed from the get go that his intention was to run his contract to its terminus.

I understand the need for counterfactual mental exercises as much as the next guy, but let's be real here.

Barring a complete team mid-season meltdown, there is no way the Bucks are trading Giannis.

Kawhi's situation was totally different, totally different dynamics (with DeMar and Casey out). It was a calculated risk/all in move on a one-year rental having gone through the cycle of DeMar and Casey. had we been ~19-40 at the deadline in 2019, Masai would have had no reason to keep Kawhi but we were 2 games away from number 1 seed overall (fitting that all in move)

the Giannis situation is like AD. What would be utter nonsense, would be for a Franchise like Milwaukee to let Giannis walk into a room with Pat Riley or Masai or Cuban as an unrestricted Free Agent. Milwaukee is not LA or Miami.
Giannis has no reason not signing the supermax unless he wants to leave because worst case scenario Milwaukee can always tell him "sign and if you are still not happy in a year, we will trade you". I doubt Milwaukee is crazy enough to put themselves in a position to lose a 2xMVPs & DPOY for nothing

[fbalmeida]

The Raptors were in contention for a title. They kept Kawhi.

As long as the Bucks are in contention for a title, they are keeping Giannis. The Pelicans were never in contention for anything.

We could look at other reasons, but it's really that simple.

[douggood]

lets say bucks have 10% chance of winning chip next year
irregardless of chip lets say 20% chance he resigns (5yr 250$ mil vs 4 yr 160 if he leaves) (numbers are all over the place because of covid)

i rather take those chances and then crater to a top pick (if he leaves) vs trade giannis and be a treadmill team.

[Raptors_128]

If Giannis says he’s not going to sign the supermax and I get offered a nice young player I can build my franchise around then I would trade him.

The team trading these young stars need to be competitive after the trade for it to make sense. The only young stars that fit the bill are Tatum, Simmons, Porzingis, and Murray.

[LoveMyRaps]

Some possible S&T to Pelicans scenarios for FVV:

1.FVV for Ball + Hart/NAW + 2021 Lakers First Round Pick
2.FVV for Ball + Hart/NAW + 2021 Wizards Second Round Pick + 2021 Cavaliers Second Round Pick
3.FVV for Reddick + 2021 Lottery Protected Pelicans First Round Pick + 2021 Wizards/Cavaliers Second Round Pick
4.FVV for Ball + Reddick

Personally the second one is my favorite.

[NotMyKawhi]

Some possible S&T to Pelicans scenarios for FVV:

1.FVV for Ball + Hart/NAW + 2021 Lakers First Round Pick
2.FVV for Ball + Hart/NAW + 2021 Wizards Second Round Pick + 2021 Cavaliers Second Round Pick
3.FVV for Ball + Miller + #13
4.FVV for Reddick + #13 + 2021 Wizards/Cavaliers Second Round Pick
5.FVV for Reddick + 2021 Lottery Protected Pelicans First Round Pick + 2021 Wizards/Cavaliers Second Round Pick
5.FVV for Ball + Reddick

Personally the second one is my favorite.

none of this is happening. The pelicans could free up a little cap space and sign FVV for free. Why trade all those assets?

[NotMyKawhi]

lowry for #1 and james johnson

[LoveMyRaps]

Some possible S&T to Pelicans scenarios for FVV:

1.FVV for Ball + Hart/NAW + 2021 Lakers First Round Pick
2.FVV for Ball + Hart/NAW + 2021 Wizards Second Round Pick + 2021 Cavaliers Second Round Pick
3.FVV for Ball + Miller + #13
4.FVV for Reddick + #13 + 2021 Wizards/Cavaliers Second Round Pick
5.FVV for Reddick + 2021 Lottery Protected Pelicans First Round Pick + 2021 Wizards/Cavaliers Second Round Pick
5.FVV for Ball + Reddick

Personally the second one is my favorite.

none of this is happening. The pelicans could free up a little cap space and sign FVV for free. Why trade all those assets?

I had to remove 3 and 4 because they're not possible since FA is after the draft.

That's true they do have the cap flexibility to sign FVV. But maybe they try to get some value out of their expirings.

[pr0gr4m]

How many title MVP votes from hall of fame legends did Norm get? Norm is a powerful downhill type of player but I have never seen him step into the key jump back out and drain a three in someone's face. Norm is a respectable spot up shooter but not exactly high volume off the dribble. Also Fred's steals and deflections are off the charts. Fred runs the team flawlessly when Lowry is on the shelf. Hard to get fair value trading Norm but he is the release financial pressure valve with a contract at 10 mil and an opt out next offseason. Norm to the Spurs for Paddy Mills expiring and the 41st would be my deal. Davis is right there to be the two off the bench. Mills is badly needed guard insurance who can shoot among other things. The money dictates Davis taking over Norm's role. Norm is waaaay better than TRoss and TRoss fetched Ibaka. Norm fetches signing flexibility, depth and prospect. Not a bad draft haul if we landed Zeke Nnaji and Karim Mane.

Nnaji isn't going to be a good player. You can't expect a player to suddenly develop athleticism or length. Height doesn't really mean much in the NBA anymore it's more about wingspan and having a smaller torso. That allows for more fluidity in movement. Moving forward with an undersized center like Reed (6-9, 7-2 wingspan) would be a better idea. He is athletic, can shoot, and rebounds extremely well. I see the potential for him to run the break and run players like Embiid off the floor.

In regards to Powell,

Norman should be worth at the very least a late lottery pick in this draft. I want to keep Norman because this whole Giannis thing is so off base. The chances he leaves for another country is improbably. A lot of players choose comfort and financial security over winning unless they are at the tailend of their career. If you were in Giannis' position knowing what Bron and KD went through you know it's not an outlier to move on from your drafted franchise to a division/conference rival.

The best action going forward to remain a playoff team and saying relevent would mean bringing back both FVV and Norm. That doesn't really help our problems though. I would argue that Fred is the most replaceable and upgradable player we have in our starting rotation.

Powell deserves a chance and I would say in large part FVV should have been a bench player this season. I feel NN did a huge favor for him and his contract year bringing him into the starting line up.

In all unless Norman brings in a pick from 12-18 range I would hold on to him. He will have higher production than whoever we can draft but the hope he can be traded for a smaller contract would be worth it.

At our range I am sticking to my order of Maledon, Woodard, Reed, and Hughes with a preference for Reed in our range as the most likely to be available. His ego will drive improvement especially within our developmental system. I can see him being a great option for a "small ball" 5 (he's the same size as Ibaka minus the bulk).

Reed could be better than Bam in the next 3 seasons if he continues to improve and his confidence isn't blotched by who drafts him. I have the slightest hope we can find a way to get Lowry to the Clipper or Philly and get a late teens pick for Maledon.

Reed
Siakam
OG
Powell/Davis
FVV/Maledon

I would consider both Reed and Maledon as guys you can slot in and expect to perform now as role players. They help us have high quality cheap role players next to hopefully two max contracts. I would guess FVV and Powell are traded and we should tank towards the end of next season. How else are we expected to get shot creators?

Gobert/Reed
Siakam
OG
Oladipo/Davis
Maledon

+ 2021 lottery pick

[fbalmeida]

lowry for #1 and james johnson

I've been banned for less.

[Def Leppard]

Any lowry trade not involving a pick or a young player is just ridiculous

It starts with Herro and a 1st.

So then, no trade.

Id do that in a second

Sent from my BBE100-5 using RealGM mobile app

[Def Leppard]

Sexton and Garland suck.

Very false.

No no its true :) tehehe

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[Dalek]

Interesting that the Pacers got Nate Bjorkgren to be a head coach. Even though he is not in a role to make personnel decisions, I'd imagine he would be a huge advocate for Kyle Lowry.

Pacers have Brogdon and Dipo who basically play the same position and neither are natural PGs. They just don't mesh well together and both get paid too much to be benched.

Raptors have FVV (assuming he re-signs) and Lowry who are both PGs and both are undersized SGs. While they play well, they need an all-world SF to help them get to the next level.

Flipping Lowry to the Pacers for Dipo+McDermott+ a prospect (Sumner) could be an option. Pacers get a guy who could get them past the first round of the playoffs, and Toronto gambles on Dipo which also allows FVV to play his natural position.

FVV is a great shooter who we don't want to drive too much, while Dipo when healthy is a freethrow magnet slashing to the basket. Even if it doesn't work out, I'd assume Dipo opts out the next year and Toronto doesn't lose any space for free agents.

[Rapsfan07]

Some possible S&T to Pelicans scenarios for FVV:

1.FVV for Ball + Hart/NAW + 2021 Lakers First Round Pick
2.FVV for Ball + Hart/NAW + 2021 Wizards Second Round Pick + 2021 Cavaliers Second Round Pick
3.FVV for Ball + Miller + #13
4.FVV for Reddick + #13 + 2021 Wizards/Cavaliers Second Round Pick
5.FVV for Reddick + 2021 Lottery Protected Pelicans First Round Pick + 2021 Wizards/Cavaliers Second Round Pick
5.FVV for Ball + Reddick

Personally the second one is my favorite.

none of this is happening. The pelicans could free up a little cap space and sign FVV for free. Why trade all those assets?

I had to remove 3 and 4 because they're not possible since FA is after the draft.

That's true they do have the cap flexibility to sign FVV. But maybe they try to get some value out of their expirings.

No need for the Pacers to give all these young guys and picks.

S&T FVV for Holiday straight up.

Holiday is has a player option for next summer, which is very likely to exercise in order to secure his last big long term deal. He's 30, plays elite defense, shoots, drives, passes and rebounds.

This deal makes sense for the Pelicans because this upcoming season is his last guaranteed season which means they can lose him for nothing if they don't deal him. This is also a chance for them to get younger and add a PG for the future of their young core.

For us, we add a mature seasoned all-star while still maintaining some flexibility to get Giannis

[LJKO]

We should just trade Lowry this offseason because not like the games are being played in Toronto next season. Bring him back as a vet minimum the following year when and if we get Giannis

[SurgeIblocka]

none of this is happening. The pelicans could free up a little cap space and sign FVV for free. Why trade all those assets?

I had to remove 3 and 4 because they're not possible since FA is after the draft.

That's true they do have the cap flexibility to sign FVV. But maybe they try to get some value out of their expirings.

No need for the Pacers to give all these young guys and picks.

S&T FVV for Holiday straight up.

Holiday is has a player option for next summer, which is very likely to exercise in order to secure his last big long term deal. He's 30, plays elite defense, shoots, drives, passes and rebounds.

This deal makes sense for the Pelicans because this upcoming season is his last guaranteed season which means they can lose him for nothing if they don't deal him. This is also a chance for them to get younger and add a PG for the future of their young core.

For us, we add a mature seasoned all-star while still maintaining some flexibility to get Giannis

And what if he picks up that player option because the cap has gone down and revenue looks weak because of Covid for the league. I don’t see any player unless they are top 20 players in the league, who will give up a large salary to hit a market when teams start spending less. Also why do we want to have no point guards the following year with Holiday and Lowry expiring leaving us with nothing. Lowry could easily go play for Philly or another contender and Holiday could leave. Holiday is not better than Fred . I would not do this deal

[Lukeem]

Why so many trades that undervalue what he means to this franchise and at the same time flirt with over valuing him with what he would mean to another one.

If anyone thinks we cannot improve on last year, is this your first season watching the raptors, or maybe you watched before Masai took over but then havent watched and are just getting back into it? I'm confused - please advise me what the hell is going on here

[fbalmeida]

Here's an attempt to map expectations considering how we improve/decline in our top rotation.

2018-19 -> 2019-20 -> 2020-21
PG (Lowry -> Lowry -> Lowry): age-related decline with Lowry, potentially offset by more VanVleet minutes at PG.
SG (Green -> VanVleet -> VanVleet): Expect VanVleet to bring slight improvements to his game, physically and mentally.
SF (Leonard -> Anunoby -> Anunoby): Expecting salient improvements to OG's offensive game.
PF (Siakam -> Siakam -> Siakam): Expecting Pascal to widen the scope of his offensive arsenal with improved footwork.
C (Gasol -> Gasol -> Ibaka): Significant defensive loss in terms of disrupting half-court passing lanes and keeping big bulky scoring centers at bay. With Ibaka's soft touch around the rim and shooting, we're likely facing the prospect of games with more scoring on both ends.
------bench------
G (VanVleet -> Davis -> Davis): High potential for the first guard off the bench, with Davis looking to establish himself in his sophomore year.
F (Powell -> Powell -> Watson/Brissett): Potential for solid two-way minutes from either player.
C (Ibaka -> Ibaka -> Mystery Big): Herein lies the key to the 2021 season.

Considering the goal of securing a max slot for Giannis and re-signing Fred, we're likely going to be able to afford a big worth anywhere in the 5-10 M range. If we play it safe and cheap, re-signing Boucher or an UFA, we're having a fun season and a likely 2nd round exit to putt for par.

If that mystery big ends up being a guy like Maxi Kleber (for Powell and stuff), he'd likely be our starter and we're ending up in the ECF.