Prospect Thread: Deni Avdija

Benjamin Linus · Post #141 » by **Benjamin Linus** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:59 pm

How does Deni compare to Dario Saric? Dario's alright but obviously not someone worth spending a top ten draft pick on.

HornetJail · Post #142 » by **HornetJail** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:02 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:I still have no idea what to make of Deni. I see some stuff I like and then get bust vibes. Just no idea.

It's funny, I saw this, and thought "hmmm reminds me of how I felt about Dario Saric"... sure enough this is the very next comment:

Benjamin Linus wrote:How does Deni compare to Dario Saric? Dario's alright but obviously not someone worth spending a top ten draft pick on.

DY_nasty · Post #143 » by **DY_nasty** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:05 pm

I've been put off by Deni ever since the Dragan Bender comparisons lol

Post #144 » by **yosemiteben** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:55 pm

Dean on Draft ruined Deni as a prospect for me.

arusinov · Post #145 » by **arusinov** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:03 am

DY_nasty wrote:I've been put off by Deni ever since the Dragan Bender comparisons lol

There's precisely zero similarities between Avdija and Bender except being on the same team pre draft.

They aren't playing same position and playing styles aren't of same kind.

Also Bender was basically unplayable (even his 5.5 / 3.0 / 0.8 averages are sweetining situation as he also was totally clueless defender) in the same Israeli I-BSL where Avdija got MVP award

arusinov · Post #146 » by **arusinov** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:10 am

yosemiteben wrote:Dean on Draft ruined Deni as a prospect for me.

You mean the article where the author compared European players by PER while never seeing most of them playing in Europe and not understanding differences in situations of different players at all...

I would say it's strong contender for the worst draft analytics award

arusinov · Post #147 » by **arusinov** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:26 am

Benjamin Linus wrote:How does Deni compare to Dario Saric? Dario's alright but obviously not someone worth spending a top ten draft pick on.

There are some similarities but Deni is incomparably faster in straight line, much quicker, has some 5" better vertical and overall just much better athlete.

Also while both high BBIQ players which can pass well, Deni's potential as playmaker is higher (he's for example quite proficient running p&r as a ball handler)

On other hand Saric is a bit (but really not much) bigger and there were much less questions concerning his shot than in Avdija's case

DY_nasty · Post #148 » by **DY_nasty** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:16 pm

if straight line speed were a thing you'd see 40 time equivalents headlining the combine.

i get that's your guy, but like.... he's already loaded when the ball touches his hand lol. And for a premier athlete label, the 6'8 guy needs to be putting his chin on the rim or something. Its hard to take any of this stuff seriously when you start off with saying he's one of the best ever at any athletic feat too.

MasterIchiro · Post #149 » by **MasterIchiro** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:14 pm

arusinov wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Dean on Draft ruined Deni as a prospect for me.

You mean the article where the author compared European players by PER while never seeing most of them playing in Europe and not understanding differences in situations of different players at all...

I would say it's strong contender for the worst draft analytics award

Post #150 » by **yosemiteben** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:22 pm

arusinov wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Dean on Draft ruined Deni as a prospect for me.

You mean the article where the author compared European players by PER while never seeing most of them playing in Europe

How do you know what the author has seen?

arusinov wrote:and not understanding differences in situations of different players at all...

Why are you assuming that is the case?

arusinov wrote:I would say it's strong contender for the worst draft analytics award

I would say you don't like it because he disses on the guy you're fanboying right now. Maybe that's not true, but I've got as much support for that as you have on these points you made.

Explain to me how Deni is so different from what we heard about Hezonja or Bender.

arusinov · Post #151 » by **arusinov** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:52 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
arusinov wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Dean on Draft ruined Deni as a prospect for me.

You mean the article where the author compared European players by PER while never seeing most of them playing in Europe

How do you know what the author has seen?

arusinov wrote:and not understanding differences in situations of different players at all...

Why are you assuming that is the case?

arusinov wrote:I would say it's strong contender for the worst draft analytics award

I would say you don't like it because he disses on the guy you're fanboying right now. Maybe that's not true, but I've got as much support for that as you have on these points you made.

Explain to me how Deni is so different from what we heard about Hezonja or Bender.

1. About Bender I've said it numerous times including in this forum.. I will repeat it once again: Bender was literally one of worst rotational players of Maccabi in I-BSL ever. And if the author had seen Bender playing for Maccabi he would never make such comparison.

It was one of two or three worst seasons in Maccabi history. Not only they were hopeless in Euroleague, that season worst Euroleague teams still had chance to continue in second stage of EuroCup but that year Maccabi wasn't good enough to get positive W/L even there. Moreover they were only 2nd in regular season I-BSL long way behind the leader, and in playoffs got eliminated in SemiFinals.

The big part of problem was the fact that all bigs were injured, ill or just plain bad. So Bender could get all playing time he could handle but he couldn't handle any even in I-BSL. Actually Bender was so bad he was at the end pushed in the rotation behind one Itay Segev - local kid just 2 years older, 2 inches shorter and unable to score on anything except dunks... and still played much better that Bender because he could defend and rebound...

The one thing to be said as excuse for Bender - he was very young (some 10 months younger than Deni this year) ... so while he was totally not ready to play even in I-BSL he certainly had potential... he just was like "couple of years away of being year away"

But if you compare PERs of a bad role player which couldn't stay on the court when not producing on offense (because he was probably the worst defender in the league) and the best scorer of the best team in the league - you can get all kind of strange results...

Say me if you were looking at NBA stats of 2 guys:
5.5/3/0.8 with 0.6 steals/0.9 blocks/0.6 TOs, .569 TS%, 14.5mpg Vs 12.94/6.27/2.67 with 0.91/1/2.24, 0.613 TS%, 27.6mpg - would you seriously claim that these two players are "in the same tier"? Isn't it total nonsense?

2. Now speaking about Hezonija. First thing: he was in different situation. He was a rotational player but with very limited minutes in both ACB and Euroleague. His stats were not great in any tournament with 5.9 / 2.0 / 1.1 averages altogether ... Sure I-BSL is much weaker league but still better than any NCAA conference and as the season progressed Deni became one of top players there while Hezonija didn't have much success (against admittedly much stronger competition)

But most important... Avdija is certainly not similar player in his playing style, abilities and shortcomings to Bender... and actually also to Hezonia (even if they are wings with similar size). Hezonija was athletic scoring wing - while Deni is playmaking wing which high BBIQ player and much better facilitator and defender.

So if players as prospects weren't in similar situation in their teams and didn't play in similar style - why to compare them at all? Just because they are white Europeans and so supposed to be same?

DY_nasty · Post #152 » by **DY_nasty** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:39 pm

That's a vastly oversimplified version of what the article had to say about Deni as well lol

As a guy who was high on Deni a while back.... I still like him. But I'm just not seeing the upside compared to others in the discussion anymore.

Post #153 » by **BigSlam** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:54 pm

Where Will Avdija Max Out as a Shooter?

Opinions vary on Avdija's shooting and whether it's a plus or a minus on the scouting report. Buying versus selling the jumper could significantly move the needle when projecting his future.

This past season, he shot 27.7 percent from three in EuroLeague and 37.5 percent in the I-BSL, in which he played more (26.6 minutes) and averaged 1.3 makes per game.

Over the years, the results have been all over the place, particularly in FIBA: 28.6 percent during the 2019 U20s, 40.7 percent during the 2018 U20s, 34 percent during the 2017 U16s. In 33 games with Maccabi in 2018-19, he combined to shoot 27.7 percent from deep.

The other concern is the lack of shooting versatility. A heavy majority of his shots have come off the catch as a standstill shooter. He hasn't been used often for running hard off screens and shooting after movement. Occasionally, when his confidence is pumping, he will ice his man and knock down a pull-up or step-back three. But outside of FIBA tournaments, when he was a top option with a green light, it's been rare to see Avdija connect off the dribble.

But how much will the lack of shooting versatility limit his scoring? And are his free-throw numbers a result of mental or fundamental issues?

A skeptic may point out that Avdija lacks wiggle and explosiveness. A believer may buy his ball-handling, IQ, passing skills and unselfishness.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MasterIchiro · Post #154 » by **MasterIchiro** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:04 pm

Warriors blown away by Avdija after workout.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/259971/Warriors-Impressed-After-Private-Workout-With-Deni-Avdija

I suppose it's because they're Jewish?

DY_nasty · Post #155 » by **DY_nasty** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:14 pm

smoke screen season stay woke

MasterIchiro · Post #156 » by **MasterIchiro** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:29 pm

DY_nasty wrote:smoke screen season stay woke

Or maybe Avdija is truly a top 3 talent? :nod:

James Gatz · Post #157 » by **James Gatz** » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:01 am

MasterIchiro wrote:Warriors blown away by Avdija after workout.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/259971/Warriors-Impressed-After-Private-Workout-With-Deni-Avdija

I suppose it's because they're Jewish?

Lacob is fyi but it's definitely a smoke screen. Every week they've been high on someone whether it's Deni, Hali, or Wiseman.

MasterIchiro · Post #158 » by **MasterIchiro** » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:02 am

James Gatz wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:Warriors blown away by Avdija after workout.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/259971/Warriors-Impressed-After-Private-Workout-With-Deni-Avdija

I suppose it's because they're Jewish?

Lacob is fyi but it's definitely a smoke screen. Every week they've been high on someone whether it's Deni, Hali, or Wiseman.

It has NOT been Wiseman.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-warriors-not-high-james-wiseman-wont-draft-him-no-2

HornetJail · Post #159 » by **HornetJail** » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:06 am

MasterIchiro wrote:
James Gatz wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:Warriors blown away by Avdija after workout.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/259971/Warriors-Impressed-After-Private-Workout-With-Deni-Avdija

I suppose it's because they're Jewish?

Lacob is fyi but it's definitely a smoke screen. Every week they've been high on someone whether it's Deni, Hali, or Wiseman.

It has NOT been Wiseman.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-warriors-not-high-james-wiseman-wont-draft-him-no-2

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/james-wiseman-most-likely-warriors-pick-if-no-trade-agents-execs-believe

Same site, 6 days ago.

The only consensus is we don't know ****

MasterIchiro · Post #160 » by **MasterIchiro** » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:08 am

KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
James Gatz wrote:
Lacob is fyi but it's definitely a smoke screen. Every week they've been high on someone whether it's Deni, Hali, or Wiseman.

It has NOT been Wiseman.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-warriors-not-high-james-wiseman-wont-draft-him-no-2

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/james-wiseman-most-likely-warriors-pick-if-no-trade-agents-execs-believe

Same site, 6 days ago.

The only consensus is we don't know ****

Sources from "around the league". Their beat writer likely is tied in with internal sources.