Who's the G.O.A.T. ?

[scrabbarista]

In Michael Jordan's 179 playoff games,


he had two games in which he scored less than LeBron James averaged over the six games of the 2011 Finals.







It's no shame to be second when the standard of first is as high as Jordan set it.

[twyzted]

In Michael Jordan's 179 playoff games,


he had two games where he scored less than LeBron James averaged in the six games of the 2011 Finals.






It's no shame to be second when the standard of first is as high as Jordan set it.

He also never scored under 20 points in a finals game.
And never under 15 in a playoff game.
But they dont understand to be the best of the best you have to be as close to perfect as possible.

[scrabbarista]

In Michael Jordan's 179 playoff games,


he had two games where he scored less than LeBron James averaged in the six games of the 2011 Finals.






It's no shame to be second when the standard of first is as high as Jordan set it.

He also never scored under 20 points in a finals game.
And never under 15 in a playoff game.
But they dont understand to be the best of the best you have to be as close to perfect as possible.

Put another way, Jordan had two playoff games under 18 points, while James has had nineteen such games.

[Lukeem]

pretty sure lebron has the better percentage too

Nope, he doesn't. He is like 7 of 17 in the final 5 seconds, to tie or take the lead. I forgot if it's 10 or 5 because Stat finder in Bref now needs subscription.

Where are you getting the numbers ? Jordan’s and lebrons ?

[LesGrossman]

Nice try. Or rather,

Watch on YouTube

I hope that laugh helps you over your L.

I've never seen someone so hurt over basketball. LeBron James is the Goat. Deal with it man.

10 Finals
4 FMVPs
4 MVPs
7491 points

Life still goes on, you'll be fine.

6 RINGS
6 FMVPs
5 MVPs
10x Scoring Leader
DPOY
All-time leader in PPG in both Playoffs and the Regular Season
3x Steals Leader
All-time leader in WS/48, BPM, VORP/82, RAPTOR, etc.
More accolades and accomplishments, both team and individual aspects.

All done in less years. LeBron played more years and still behind and chasing.

Next.

For me, its not even that. Boxscore numbers are overrated anyway. Its something not measurable. MJ had it in his eyes. He literally willed his team to the victory, didnt depend on super talent, great shooters around him in those moments. He was genuinely turning to killer mode in those moments, it was scary to see. Kobe had it, too. LeBron? He is posing for the cameras. He adds gestures and grimaces as he goes. Its all so fake...sad somehow. He thinks he isnt enough so he puts on an act. That, to me, is the greatest difference. MJ, Kobe knew who they were. They never "wanted their damn respect" or declared themselves "greatest of all time". They werent afraid to compete on the highest level, where LeBron is showboating when it doesnt matter, but doesnt even have the balls to compete in a single dunk contest, in 18 years. Not once. "Greatest athlete of all time" and whatnot. Why? BEcause mentally weak, cant deal with the pressure and it gets worse when theres no team mates to throw under the bus. Dunk contest, 3pt contest, cant hide, no excuses.

Who remembers when he was dunked on by a kid in his own camp, and had all cameras confiscated to avoid the video leaking out?

Has there ever been a more insecure superstar?

[BigBoss23]

I've never seen someone so hurt over basketball. LeBron James is the Goat. Deal with it man.

10 Finals
4 FMVPs
4 MVPs
7491 points

Life still goes on, you'll be fine.

6 RINGS
6 FMVPs
5 MVPs
10x Scoring Leader
DPOY
All-time leader in PPG in both Playoffs and the Regular Season
3x Steals Leader
All-time leader in WS/48, BPM, VORP/82, RAPTOR, etc.
More accolades and accomplishments, both team and individual aspects.

All done in less years. LeBron played more years and still behind and chasing.

Next.

For me, its not even that. Boxscore numbers are overrated anyway. Its something not measurable. MJ had it in his eyes. He literally willed his team to the victory, didnt depend on super talent, great shooters around him in those moments. He was genuinely turning to killer mode in those moments, it was scary to see. Kobe had it, too. LeBron? He is posing for the cameras. He adds gestures and grimaces as he goes. Its all so fake...sad somehow. He thinks he isnt enough so he puts on an act. That, to me, is the greatest difference. MJ, Kobe knew who they were. They never "wanted their damn respect" or declared themselves "greatest of all time". They werent afraid to compete on the highest level, where LeBron is showboating when it doesnt matter, but doesnt even have the balls to compete in a single dunk contest, in 18 years. Not once. "Greatest athlete of all time" and whatnot. Why? BEcause mentally weak, cant deal with the pressure and it gets worse when theres no team mates to throw under the bus. Dunk contest, 3pt contest, cant hide, no excuses.

Who remembers when he was dunked on by a kid in his own camp, and had all cameras confiscated to avoid the video leaking out?

Has there ever been a more insecure superstar?

His fanbase is the embodiment of his character. Phony, obnoxious, front runner.

[scrabbarista]

6 RINGS
6 FMVPs
5 MVPs
10x Scoring Leader
DPOY
All-time leader in PPG in both Playoffs and the Regular Season
3x Steals Leader
All-time leader in WS/48, BPM, VORP/82, RAPTOR, etc.
More accolades and accomplishments, both team and individual aspects.

All done in less years. LeBron played more years and still behind and chasing.

Next.

For me, its not even that. Boxscore numbers are overrated anyway. Its something not measurable. MJ had it in his eyes. He literally willed his team to the victory, didnt depend on super talent, great shooters around him in those moments. He was genuinely turning to killer mode in those moments, it was scary to see. Kobe had it, too. LeBron? He is posing for the cameras. He adds gestures and grimaces as he goes. Its all so fake...sad somehow. He thinks he isnt enough so he puts on an act. That, to me, is the greatest difference. MJ, Kobe knew who they were. They never "wanted their damn respect" or declared themselves "greatest of all time". They werent afraid to compete on the highest level, where LeBron is showboating when it doesnt matter, but doesnt even have the balls to compete in a single dunk contest, in 18 years. Not once. "Greatest athlete of all time" and whatnot. Why? BEcause mentally weak, cant deal with the pressure and it gets worse when theres no team mates to throw under the bus. Dunk contest, 3pt contest, cant hide, no excuses.

Who remembers when he was dunked on by a kid in his own camp, and had all cameras confiscated to avoid the video leaking out?

Has there ever been a more insecure superstar?

His fanbase is the embodiment of his character. Phony, obnoxious, front runner.

C'mon, man. I agree with a lot of Les' characterization of James and Jordan there, but this feels like a bit of a cheap shot at millions of people, most of whom you've never met.

I mean, I know at least one decent person who's a fan of James. Probably more than that.

[BigBoss23]

For me, its not even that. Boxscore numbers are overrated anyway. Its something not measurable. MJ had it in his eyes. He literally willed his team to the victory, didnt depend on super talent, great shooters around him in those moments. He was genuinely turning to killer mode in those moments, it was scary to see. Kobe had it, too. LeBron? He is posing for the cameras. He adds gestures and grimaces as he goes. Its all so fake...sad somehow. He thinks he isnt enough so he puts on an act. That, to me, is the greatest difference. MJ, Kobe knew who they were. They never "wanted their damn respect" or declared themselves "greatest of all time". They werent afraid to compete on the highest level, where LeBron is showboating when it doesnt matter, but doesnt even have the balls to compete in a single dunk contest, in 18 years. Not once. "Greatest athlete of all time" and whatnot. Why? BEcause mentally weak, cant deal with the pressure and it gets worse when theres no team mates to throw under the bus. Dunk contest, 3pt contest, cant hide, no excuses.

Who remembers when he was dunked on by a kid in his own camp, and had all cameras confiscated to avoid the video leaking out?

Has there ever been a more insecure superstar?

His fanbase is the embodiment of his character. Phony, obnoxious, front runner.

C'mon, man. I agree with a lot of Les' characterization of James and Jordan there, but this feels like a bit of a cheap shot at millions of people, most of whom you've never met.

I mean, I'm not fan of LeBron James, but I know at least one decent person who is. Probably more than that.

You don't have to agree with my opinion and obviously not all lbj fans are like that, but look at all the GB threads discrediting everyone else and its obvious who the loudest and ignorant group is. Apparently lbj can fly too or so I'm told.

[scrabbarista]

His fanbase is the embodiment of his character. Phony, obnoxious, front runner.

C'mon, man. I agree with a lot of Les' characterization of James and Jordan there, but this feels like a bit of a cheap shot at millions of people, most of whom you've never met.

I mean, I'm not fan of LeBron James, but I know at least one decent person who is. Probably more than that.

You don't have to agree with my opinion and obviously not all lbj fans are like that, but look at all the GB threads discrediting everyone else and its obvious who the loudest and ignorant group is. Apparently lbj can fly too or so I'm told.

I have noticed a lot of silly OP's awkwardly trying to prop him up lately, I'll give you that much. I guess I mostly just skip 'em.

[twyzted]

I've never seen someone so hurt over basketball. LeBron James is the Goat. Deal with it man.

10 Finals
4 FMVPs
4 MVPs
7491 points

Life still goes on, you'll be fine.

6 RINGS
6 FMVPs
5 MVPs
10x Scoring Leader
DPOY
All-time leader in PPG in both Playoffs and the Regular Season
3x Steals Leader
All-time leader in WS/48, BPM, VORP/82, RAPTOR, etc.
More accolades and accomplishments, both team and individual aspects.

All done in less years. LeBron played more years and still behind and chasing.

Next.

For me, its not even that. Boxscore numbers are overrated anyway. Its something not measurable. MJ had it in his eyes. He literally willed his team to the victory, didnt depend on super talent, great shooters around him in those moments. He was genuinely turning to killer mode in those moments, it was scary to see. Kobe had it, too. LeBron? He is posing for the cameras. He adds gestures and grimaces as he goes. Its all so fake...sad somehow. He thinks he isnt enough so he puts on an act. That, to me, is the greatest difference. MJ, Kobe knew who they were. They never "wanted their damn respect" or declared themselves "greatest of all time". They werent afraid to compete on the highest level, where LeBron is showboating when it doesnt matter, but doesnt even have the balls to compete in a single dunk contest, in 18 years. Not once. "Greatest athlete of all time" and whatnot. Why? BEcause mentally weak, cant deal with the pressure and it gets worse when theres no team mates to throw under the bus. Dunk contest, 3pt contest, cant hide, no excuses.

Who remembers when he was dunked on by a kid in his own camp, and had all cameras confiscated to avoid the video leaking out?

Has there ever been a more insecure superstar?

I dont know if youve seen this ... But go to timestamp 2:01:50 listen what marv says to mike fratello. This is during a comercial break so it was not aired.

Watch on YouTube

Then watch these last 8 mins of the game. For me this is a great example of Jordan. He did not dwell on the ball. Was always moving off the ball and let his teammates play and was ready to step up if needed. That was his 2nd final and the announcer knew it.

[LesGrossman]

His fanbase is the embodiment of his character. Phony, obnoxious, front runner.

C'mon, man. I agree with a lot of Les' characterization of James and Jordan there, but this feels like a bit of a cheap shot at millions of people, most of whom you've never met.

I mean, I'm not fan of LeBron James, but I know at least one decent person who is. Probably more than that.

You don't have to agree with my opinion and obviously not all lbj fans are like that, but look at all the GB threads discrediting everyone else and its obvious who the loudest and ignorant group is. Apparently lbj can fly too or so I'm told.

Its pretty complex actually. Ive tried and failed to wrap my mind around the thought model of the typical LeBron fan:
- All his team mates are terrible, beyond their prime, and he has to carry them. If he played along all stars they werent really all stars. 1st Team all NBA is not meaningful when it comes to his team mates. However it is meaningful when referring to his own accolades
- All potential challengers suck in reality. Noone can get close to him. Noone is relevant. MJ was average and played in a soft period of the NBA. He was nothing without Scottie. Dont even get started with Wilt, KAJ or Russell. KD sucks and is not talented because he joined a superteam. Which is not the same as creating a superteam. Somehow. Also he is a snake so he cant be better at basketball than Lebron because Snakes have no arms. Kawhi is terrible too, he is a bad person and bad leader. Giannis cant even play basketball and constantly travels. Or was that LeBron? Nah it is Giannis. And HArden. Harden should not have been MVP, it should always have been LeBron. Meanwhile, beating harden in the playoffs is the toughest playoff run to the finals, ever.
- At the same time, overcoming those irrelevant opponents and their annoyign team mates is an achievement of herculean dimensions. Especially since he is the greatest ever at everything and carries more, finishes better and is overall the best greatest and overall godlike.

At some point we'll all give up and give in and be assimilated. I just cant mentally grasp the concept yet.

[Lukeem]

I've never seen someone so hurt over basketball. LeBron James is the Goat. Deal with it man.

10 Finals
4 FMVPs
4 MVPs
7491 points

Life still goes on, you'll be fine.

6 RINGS
6 FMVPs
5 MVPs
10x Scoring Leader
DPOY
All-time leader in PPG in both Playoffs and the Regular Season
3x Steals Leader
All-time leader in WS/48, BPM, VORP/82, RAPTOR, etc.
More accolades and accomplishments, both team and individual aspects.

All done in less years. LeBron played more years and still behind and chasing.

Next.

For me, its not even that. Boxscore numbers are overrated anyway. Its something not measurable. MJ had it in his eyes. He literally willed his team to the victory, didnt depend on super talent, great shooters around him in those moments. He was genuinely turning to killer mode in those moments, it was scary to see. Kobe had it, too. LeBron? He is posing for the cameras. He adds gestures and grimaces as he goes. Its all so fake...sad somehow. He thinks he isnt enough so he puts on an act. That, to me, is the greatest difference. MJ, Kobe knew who they were. They never "wanted their damn respect" or declared themselves "greatest of all time". They werent afraid to compete on the highest level, where LeBron is showboating when it doesnt matter, but doesnt even have the balls to compete in a single dunk contest, in 18 years. Not once. "Greatest athlete of all time" and whatnot. Why? BEcause mentally weak, cant deal with the pressure and it gets worse when theres no team mates to throw under the bus. Dunk contest, 3pt contest, cant hide, no excuses.

Who remembers when he was dunked on by a kid in his own camp, and had all cameras confiscated to avoid the video leaking out?

Has there ever been a more insecure superstar?

Pretty much everything wrong with 95% of Jordan goat supporters wrapped up in one paragraph
Like saying
1. Evidence doesn’t matter “it’s something he had in his eyes” I don’t care about your crush neither should the argument
2. “Willed his team to victory “ yeah great empty statement that applies to every nba champion but because of your feelings it applies more to Jordan than lebron in 2016 ?
3. Completely false statements “didn’t depend on super talent or great shooters” Steve kerr, John paxson, Craig Hodges (who Jordan helped force out of Chicago because Jordan was unwilling to risk endorsements by supporting Rodney king) were some of if not the best shooters in the league.
4. Completely hypocritical ideas. Lebron is bad for posing and grimacing for the camera. Jordan basically invented / more so made that popular.
5. Useless hypocritical hate. Saying lebron was too scared to do the slam dunk contest (which who gives a **** about that pageantry mess of lipstick on pigs) lebron hasn’t backed down from the president of the United States or losing the support of half the states over political reasons. Jordan was scared of that. But he did a dunk contest “he’s so brave “ with dreamy eyes. Bs


Jordan was so mentally weak and insecure he limited interviews and everything so much he kept to only people that would say nice things about him and basically had his buddy Ahmad rashad follow him around and tell the world how perfect and dreamy Jordan is

[MavsPride99]

pretty sure lebron has the better percentage too

Nope, he doesn't. He is like 7 of 17 in the final 5 seconds, to tie or take the lead. I forgot if it's 10 or 5 because Stat finder in Bref now needs subscription.

Name a time when Le Cast hit a game winning shot in a finals series? Cause i cant think of any. But i can think of several that Jordan hit

[MavsPride99]

6 RINGS
6 FMVPs
5 MVPs
10x Scoring Leader
DPOY
All-time leader in PPG in both Playoffs and the Regular Season
3x Steals Leader
All-time leader in WS/48, BPM, VORP/82, RAPTOR, etc.
More accolades and accomplishments, both team and individual aspects.

All done in less years. LeBron played more years and still behind and chasing.

Next.

For me, its not even that. Boxscore numbers are overrated anyway. Its something not measurable. MJ had it in his eyes. He literally willed his team to the victory, didnt depend on super talent, great shooters around him in those moments. He was genuinely turning to killer mode in those moments, it was scary to see. Kobe had it, too. LeBron? He is posing for the cameras. He adds gestures and grimaces as he goes. Its all so fake...sad somehow. He thinks he isnt enough so he puts on an act. That, to me, is the greatest difference. MJ, Kobe knew who they were. They never "wanted their damn respect" or declared themselves "greatest of all time". They werent afraid to compete on the highest level, where LeBron is showboating when it doesnt matter, but doesnt even have the balls to compete in a single dunk contest, in 18 years. Not once. "Greatest athlete of all time" and whatnot. Why? BEcause mentally weak, cant deal with the pressure and it gets worse when theres no team mates to throw under the bus. Dunk contest, 3pt contest, cant hide, no excuses.

Who remembers when he was dunked on by a kid in his own camp, and had all cameras confiscated to avoid the video leaking out?

Has there ever been a more insecure superstar?

Pretty much everything wrong with 95% of Jordan goat supporters wrapped up in one paragraph
Like saying
1. Evidence doesn’t matter “it’s something he had in his eyes” I don’t care about your crush neither should the argument
2. “Willed his team to victory “ yeah great empty statement that applies to every nba champion but because of your feelings it applies more to Jordan than lebron in 2016 ?
3. Completely false statements “didn’t depend on super talent or great shooters” Steve kerr, John paxson, Craig Hodges (who Jordan helped force out of Chicago because Jordan was unwilling to risk endorsements by supporting Rodney king) were some of if not the best shooters in the league.
4. Completely hypocritical ideas. Lebron is bad for posing and grimacing for the camera. Jordan basically invented / more so made that popular.
5. Useless hypocritical hate. Saying lebron was too scared to do the slam dunk contest (which who gives a **** about that pageantry mess of lipstick on pigs) lebron hasn’t backed down from the president of the United States or losing the support of half the states over political reasons. Jordan was scared of that. But he did a dunk contest “he’s so brave “ with dreamy eyes. Bs

Ok little buttercup boy....youve been watching the nba for less than 10 years I guarantee it. Which means you have no idea what your talking about. I cant comment on Wilt or Russell cause i never saw them play. But i saw almost all of Jordans career. And who cares about politics? This is a basketball forum moron keep politics out of it

[KyRo23]

Nope, he doesn't. He is like 7 of 17 in the final 5 seconds, to tie or take the lead. I forgot if it's 10 or 5 because Stat finder in Bref now needs subscription.

Name a time when Le Cast hit a game winning shot in a finals series? Cause i cant think of any. But i can think of several that Jordan hit

Smooth move of the goalpost. Bravo.

[LesGrossman]

6 RINGS
6 FMVPs
5 MVPs
10x Scoring Leader
DPOY
All-time leader in PPG in both Playoffs and the Regular Season
3x Steals Leader
All-time leader in WS/48, BPM, VORP/82, RAPTOR, etc.
More accolades and accomplishments, both team and individual aspects.

All done in less years. LeBron played more years and still behind and chasing.

Next.

For me, its not even that. Boxscore numbers are overrated anyway. Its something not measurable. MJ had it in his eyes. He literally willed his team to the victory, didnt depend on super talent, great shooters around him in those moments. He was genuinely turning to killer mode in those moments, it was scary to see. Kobe had it, too. LeBron? He is posing for the cameras. He adds gestures and grimaces as he goes. Its all so fake...sad somehow. He thinks he isnt enough so he puts on an act. That, to me, is the greatest difference. MJ, Kobe knew who they were. They never "wanted their damn respect" or declared themselves "greatest of all time". They werent afraid to compete on the highest level, where LeBron is showboating when it doesnt matter, but doesnt even have the balls to compete in a single dunk contest, in 18 years. Not once. "Greatest athlete of all time" and whatnot. Why? BEcause mentally weak, cant deal with the pressure and it gets worse when theres no team mates to throw under the bus. Dunk contest, 3pt contest, cant hide, no excuses.

Who remembers when he was dunked on by a kid in his own camp, and had all cameras confiscated to avoid the video leaking out?

Has there ever been a more insecure superstar?

Pretty much everything wrong with 95% of Jordan goat supporters wrapped up in one paragraph
Like saying
1. Evidence doesn’t matter “it’s something he had in his eyes” I don’t care about your crush neither should the argument
2. “Willed his team to victory “ yeah great empty statement that applies to every nba champion but because of your feelings it applies more to Jordan than lebron in 2016 ?
3. Completely false statements “didn’t depend on super talent or great shooters” Steve kerr, John paxson, Craig Hodges (who Jordan helped force out of Chicago because Jordan was unwilling to risk endorsements by supporting Rodney king) were some of if not the best shooters in the league.
4. Completely hypocritical ideas. Lebron is bad for posing and grimacing for the camera. Jordan basically invented / more so made that popular.
5. Useless hypocritical hate. Saying lebron was too scared to do the slam dunk contest (which who gives a **** about that pageantry mess of lipstick on pigs) lebron hasn’t backed down from the president of the United States or losing the support of half the states over political reasons. Jordan was scared of that. But he did a dunk contest “he’s so brave “ with dreamy eyes. Bs


Jordan was so mentally weak and insecure he limited interviews and everything so much he kept to only people that would say nice things about him and basically had his buddy Ahmad rashad follow him around and tell the world how perfect and dreamy Jordan is

Oh so the dunk context dont matter suddenly because he didnt participate, but there are pages full of articles about his "pregame dunks" at his sons games.DOnt fool yourself. LeBron said it himself that he was afraid to lose, no need to cover it up.

Also, going agianst the president? LOL. He hopped on a convenient bandwagon to prop up his brand, as he always does. He refused to put a slogan on his jersey instead of his name. And when it really mattered, when he could have showed up and have some balls, he ... faltered. China...

Yeah, as i wrote, that is my very personal criteria. I'm not dissecting your post where oyu just quoted out of context and so on, because you argued against noone there, basically. And of all people a lebron person accuses others of "useless hypocritical hate". LOL.

But good talkin'.

[MavsPride99]

Name a time when Le Cast hit a game winning shot in a finals series? Cause i cant think of any. But i can think of several that Jordan hit

Smooth move of the goalpost. Bravo.

Im waiting bro? Please enlighten me. He blocked Igggys shot in the finals. Im waiting for another big shot moment tho. Your a le bron guy. Cmon give me one

[KyRo23]

Name a time when Le Cast hit a game winning shot in a finals series? Cause i cant think of any. But i can think of several that Jordan hit

Smooth move of the goalpost. Bravo.

Im waiting bro? Please enlighten me. He blocked Igggys shot in the finals. Im waiting for another big shot moment tho. Your a le bron guy. Cmon give me one

I do not believe he has a finals game winner. I don't remember saying he did. You're trying your best to sidestep the original point and you're not doing a good job.

[MavsPride99]

Smooth move of the goalpost. Bravo.

Im waiting bro? Please enlighten me. He blocked Igggys shot in the finals. Im waiting for another big shot moment tho. Your a le bron guy. Cmon give me one

I do not believe he has a finals game winner. I don't remember saying he did. You're trying your best to sidestep the original point and you're not doing a good job.

Ok man. Bottom line is ive never seen a great player switch teams like him and form superteams like him. You lose credibility like that. Miami and cleveland were superteams. Both had three all star players in their prime. He lost in LA until he got AD who is a top 5 player. Jordan stayed in chicago and won. He never formed a superteam. They brought pippen and grant in as rookies. When they got Rodman in the second three peat he was mid 30s. You le bron people also overvalue rodman. Love, Bosh, and Davis are all better players than Rodman. These are all facts

[KyRo23]

Im waiting bro? Please enlighten me. He blocked Igggys shot in the finals. Im waiting for another big shot moment tho. Your a le bron guy. Cmon give me one

I do not believe he has a finals game winner. I don't remember saying he did. You're trying your best to sidestep the original point and you're not doing a good job.

Ok man. Bottom line is ive never seen a great player switch teams like him and form superteams like him. You lose credibility like that. Miami and cleveland were superteams. Both had three all star players in their prime. He lost in LA until he got AD who is a top 5 player. Jordan stayed in chicago and won. He never formed a superteam. They brought pippen and grant in as rookies. When they got Rodman in the second three peat he was mid 30s. You le bron people also overvalue rodman. Love, Bosh, and Davis are all better players than Rodman. These are all facts

Not sure why you're venting to me, I didn't mention any of this. I simply replied to someone who was wrong about LeBron/Jordan's game winners/tying shots in the playoffs. Not interested in the rest as I have heard it 4,000 times in the past 2 weeks. Your takes are not new or profound.