OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

[Local_NG_Idiot]

People are being conditioned to fear everyone from their neighbours, to grocery staff and even the old lady walking towards them on the street; yet they bash those who question this situation as conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers or Trump supporters. The same people that claim the Western world is evil, corrupt and racist when it fits their narrative; but suddenly on this issue the powers that be have our best interests in mind?? lol

Money is being printed at exorbitant rates and will need to be paid back with interest. Pharmaceutical companies will profit billions when a vaccine is forced onto everyone. Amazon, Walmart and the other elites continue to chug along while small business competition gets wiped out.

We're literally getting **** with no lube blatantly, but hey, let's keep isolating ourselves and live in a constant state of paranoia while the government dangles the proverbial carrot of obedience to head back to "normalcy".

So until Covid we haven't been getting *** with no lube blatantly by the same exact people you talk about? These people are just doing what they always do and its to take as much advantage of the situation as possible without regard for people. And they can do it not cause we are sheep and we listen to medical advice. It's cause they are already above any real struggle for their position. Do you really think they need to go through inventing opportunities? Well, actually they do, and its called war. And its a lot more effective than anything else you can think of.

What do you think COVID is? this is literally biological warfare.

These same powers are always coming up with inventive ways to **** us because they have to appease the masses and not make it look like we're actually getting ****. Punishments have to be justified.

Remember 911? Look at the spillover from that situation and argue that the US didn't use it as an excuse to steal oil/resources from the Middle East. Who was the boogeyman for that situation? Islam, ISIS, Bin Laden, Sadam.

Different characters. Same script.

I am extremely appreciative that tinfoil hats do not protect against Covid.

[TorontoRapsFan]

People are being conditioned to fear everyone from their neighbours, to grocery staff and even the old lady walking towards them on the street; yet they bash those who question this situation as conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers or Trump supporters. The same people that claim the Western world is evil, corrupt and racist when it fits their narrative; but suddenly on this issue the powers that be have our best interests in mind?? lol

Money is being printed at exorbitant rates and will need to be paid back with interest. Pharmaceutical companies will profit billions when a vaccine is forced onto everyone. Amazon, Walmart and the other elites continue to chug along while small business competition gets wiped out.

We're literally getting **** with no lube blatantly, but hey, let's keep isolating ourselves and live in a constant state of paranoia while the government dangles the proverbial carrot of obedience to head back to "normalcy".

So until Covid we haven't been getting *** with no lube blatantly by the same exact people you talk about? These people are just doing what they always do and its to take as much advantage of the situation as possible without regard for people. And they can do it not cause we are sheep and we listen to medical advice. It's cause they are already above any real struggle for their position. Do you really think they need to go through inventing opportunities? Well, actually they do, and its called war. And its a lot more effective than anything else you can think of.

What do you think COVID is? this is literally biological warfare.

These same powers are always coming up with inventive ways to **** us because they have to appease the masses and not make it look like we're actually getting ****. Punishments have to be justified.

Remember 911? Look at the spillover from that situation and argue that the US didn't use it as an excuse to steal oil/resources from the Middle East. Who was the boogeyman for that situation? Islam, ISIS, Bin Laden, Sadam.

Different characters. Same script.

Wars and all that go into it and how it ties into making it an industry dwarfs whatever COVID can make for pharmaceuticals and whoever else. As a fact, profits from COVID related drugs and paraphernalia are just a drop in the ocean in terms of what the major companies make their money from. You can't just go and generalize the fact of exploitation to every situation that happens in the world.

[Raps in 4]

Read on Twitter

978 today

Maaaan... this is getting crazy. I was hoping things would start turning around slowly and we can reopen things after the 28 day period.

I'm living such a pathetic lifestyle right now. I need the gym for my long term sanity.

We were never going to re-open until there was a vaccine. Too many irresponsible people in society.

[Raps in 4]

COVID-19 has caused more harm for the measures taken to "stop the spread" than the virus itself.

Lives ruined, economies hurt, and death rates low, yet there is constant fear mongering in the media, 24/7 from every outlet.

Draconian measures implemented and those who oppose are censored or discredited, for reasons unknown.

Go volunteer your time in a hospital, long term care, or retirement home for a week and then come back here and say this again.

There are fewer than 2 Covid patients in Ontario, on average in each hospital. Why would you expect that to change his mind?

I literally bumped into 3 during my visit to Sunnybrook before the second wave even started. And that was just random chance (one was a nurse in the ER checking in (caught it from her patients), 2 were intubated and going to get scanned when I was). I didn't bump into every Covid patient in the hospital in 48 hours. Hospitals have entire wards full of them.

Maybe hospitals in remote towns aren't full of Covid patients because they don't have a lot of cases (low population density), but the cities absolutely do.

[ItsDanger]

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/studies-stir-new-debate-about-influenza-virus-size-transmission-risk

Article from 2013. "However, surgical masks are not as efficient at preventing release of very small particles. It is well known that surgical masks are not effective for preventing exposure to fine particles when worn as personal protection." I won't bother with the polyester/synthetic material masks I see around.

Of course they do state use of masks reduces release of particles by 3.4 factor "Compliance [in the proper use of masks], however, would be a major limitation resulting in lower efficacy in real-world practice." As they admitted back in Mar/Apr.

"Thirty-five percent of the influenza RNA was contained in particles >4 µm in aerodynamic diameter, while 23 percent was in particles 1 to 4 µm and 42 percent in particles <1 µm." its bioaerosols, not droplets that is the factor. This was clear back in March, the ONLY practical explanation for spread. these masks also have leakage.

"However, there was a big range of how many viruses people put into the air some were undetectable while others put out over 100,000 every 30 minutes." eg. superspreader.

SARS CoV2 has longer incubation period and significant asymptomatic cases which underscores the importance of the above comments.

Always refer to pre-2020 material. Always consider the 3 key variables: time, space, viral load.

In my time, the best students didn't go into medicine, they went into business, engineering, computers, even law. Unfortunately for us. But its clearly showing these days.

[Jay240]

Here's the best way to sum it up I think. Nobody really knows how bad this can get. There are experts but even they don't know the true extent of this. They can only theorize, hypothesize and throw out some predictions.

Sure the economy is suffering, people will or have already lost their jobs and livelihoods. So a total lockdown might not be the best answer. But it also cannot be denied that people are dying because of this.

Now maybe the death rates of people with covid is low. But if there are large numbers of hospitalizations, it stands to reason that people with other diseases will also die based on the fact of thinning medical resources.

Its more or less a balancing act.

But if the economy is what's worrying people, then spread the word about better decision making. If people are being idiots and still going to sunday dinner parties with a whole bunch of people, thats only going to make things worse for everybody.

Being a bit strict with our activities now is better for everyone in the long run.. and that includes the economy. If the cases keep climbing so do the restrictions.

Nobody likes this situation, but pretending that its overblown and some sort of ploy to force people into isolation. Come on, get with the program.

Me personally, I'd rather be 6 ft away than 6 ft under.

[Tor_Raps]

Read on Twitter

978 today

Maaaan... this is getting crazy. I was hoping things would start turning around slowly and we can reopen things after the 28 day period.

I'm living such a pathetic lifestyle right now. I need the gym for my long term sanity.

We were never going to re-open until there was a vaccine. Too many irresponsible people in society.

Wasn't expecting to fully reopen but at least get back to phase 3 or whatever it was where places would be open.

[Raps in 4]

But if the economy is what's worrying people, then spread the word about better decision making. If people are being idiots and still going to sunday dinner parties with a whole bunch of people, thats only going to make things worse for everybody.

The ones most vocal about the economy are the ones most active in ensuring things stay closed.

[RoLo]

COVID-19 has caused more harm for the measures taken to "stop the spread" than the virus itself.

Lives ruined, economies hurt, and death rates low, yet there is constant fear mongering in the media, 24/7 from every outlet.

Draconian measures implemented and those who oppose are censored or discredited, for reasons unknown.

The only thing dumber than this post are the people who gave it an and1.

It’s always the same cabal. Wolverine and company. 13th man, bballinsight has Recently joined the fray. Alchemist too. I’ll give torraps some credit he doesn’t spam bs on here as much as those other guys. I’m surprised we haven’t seen dr negativity come running in here like the ultimate warrior. He’s their Hulk Hogan of this anti lockdown NWO like stable. Wolverine is like their Paul Bearer. Doesn’t say much but when he does open his mouth he just makes weird noises. They should have a name we can easily address them by. I propose ‘The Spirit Squad’. From now on these guys will be addressed with proper respect and we shall call them The Spirit Squad.

[ItsDanger]

"Estimates place the backlog, which is partly due to COVID’s impact on hospital capacity, at more than 148,000 procedures. And despite the term “elective surgery,” this backlog is composed of medically-necessary procedures from cancer surgeries to cataract removals." Consistent since mid June maybe? Don't know what the current cardiac deaths have been due to postponed/cancelled procedures. I'd suggest its a significant number. There have been studies on delayed procedures before. I will post if I can locate them.

Any outbreaks at Walmart or Costco yet?

[Basketball_Jones]

Stage 2 ain't working. People are just acting defiant now. I mean damn, there is still so much you can do while social distancing why are people so stupid as to gather with people outside of their household? I had a family member drive up to pick something up and he ended up bringing his wife and kid to hang out. I couldn't tell him no don't come in, but I wanted to. I mean damn, just use common sense here. I guess I'm in the minority since I actually prefer this Kawhi Leonard type of living lol. In all honesty, I don't think places should have been shut down but their operations just severely limited. It would have kept people in a happier medium and maybe, just maybe not start to act defiant out of anger.

[ItsDanger]

Stage 2 ain't working. People are just acting defiant now. I mean damn, there is still so much you can do while social distancing why are people so stupid as to gather with people outside of their household? I had a family member drive up to pick something up and he ended up bringing his wife and kid to hang out. I couldn't tell him no don't come in, but I wanted to. I mean damn, just use common sense here. I guess I'm in the minority since I actually prefer this Kawhi Leonard type of living lol. In all honesty, I don't think places should have been shut down but their operations just severely limited. It would have kept people in a happier medium and maybe, just maybe not start to act defiant out of anger.

Passed by a regional BMO office in Mississauga the other day. Must have been 200 cars in the parking lot as it was almost full. This is under stage 2. I assume there are several offices like this around. No cases tied to these yet? About 50% of cases that are reported in Ontario have no known source, thats from their "reported" data.

[Basketball_Jones]

lol @ offices being open. Unless it's physical work, these companies should have moved towards remote working infrastructure years ago.

[M3tro]

What do you think COVID is? this is literally biological warfare.

These same powers are always coming up with inventive ways to **** us because they have to appease the masses and not make it look like we're actually getting ****. Punishments have to be justified.

Remember 911? Look at the spillover from that situation and argue that the US didn't use it as an excuse to steal oil/resources from the Middle East. Who was the boogeyman for that situation? Islam, ISIS, Bin Laden, Sadam.

Different characters. Same script.

...and who are these "powers" exactly?

Justin Trudeau and the Global Elite of course, i.e. anybody that believes in science, doesn’t treat human lives as political props, and doesn’t have slavish devotion to the Sun and Rebel Media. Never mind that to believe this global conspiracy means that a bunch of countries got together and unleashed a biological weapon on the world destroying their own economies along the way all in the service of the Pharmaceutical industry, Amazon and Walmart. Completely logical and makes sense.

lol

Turning this to a partisan political slant shows just how much of a donkey you actually are.

Keep drinking the Kool-aid.

[Courtside]

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/studies-stir-new-debate-about-influenza-virus-size-transmission-risk

Article from 2013. "However, surgical masks are not as efficient at preventing release of very small particles. It is well known that surgical masks are not effective for preventing exposure to fine particles when worn as personal protection." I won't bother with the polyester/synthetic material masks I see around.

Of course they do state use of masks reduces release of particles by 3.4 factor "Compliance [in the proper use of masks], however, would be a major limitation resulting in lower efficacy in real-world practice." As they admitted back in Mar/Apr.

"Thirty-five percent of the influenza RNA was contained in particles >4 µm in aerodynamic diameter, while 23 percent was in particles 1 to 4 µm and 42 percent in particles <1 µm." its bioaerosols, not droplets that is the factor. This was clear back in March, the ONLY practical explanation for spread. these masks also have leakage.

"However, there was a big range of how many viruses people put into the air some were undetectable while others put out over 100,000 every 30 minutes." eg. superspreader.

SARS CoV2 has longer incubation period and significant asymptomatic cases which underscores the importance of the above comments.

Always refer to pre-2020 material. Always consider the 3 key variables: time, space, viral load.

In my time, the best students didn't go into medicine, they went into business, engineering, computers, even law. Unfortunately for us. But its clearly showing these days.

From your very own source...

First off, this, which maybe questions the applicability of the results:

The study addressed only the presence of influenza-containing particles near patients during routine care, not the actual transmission of influenza infection to others.

But proceeding to some of the findings anyways:

Wearing a surgical mask significantly decreased the presence of virus in airborne droplets from exhaled breath. There was a 2.8 fold reduction in the amount of virus shed into the smallest droplets, and a 3.4 fold overall reduction in virus shed in both the coarse and fine and airborne particles. As Milton, et al. (2013) note, "Surgical masks reduced the overall number of RNA copies by 3.4 fold. These results suggest an important role for aerosols in transmission of influenza virus and that surgical facemasks worn by infected persons are potentially an effective means of limiting the spread of influenza.

We view results from Johnson et al and the present study as complementary. Together the studies show that surgical masks can limit the emission of large droplet spray and aerosol droplets larger than 5 µm. However, surgical masks are not as efficient at preventing release of very small particles.
.....
Nevertheless, the overall 3.4 fold reduction in aerosol copy numbers we observed combined with a nearly complete elimination of large droplet spray demonstrated by Johnson et al. suggests that surgical masks worn by infected persons could have a clinically significant impact on transmission. For example if one hypothesized that all transmission were due to aerosol particles <50 µm, and estimated a reproductive number of 1.5 for influenza (i.e. each infection generates 1.5 new infections on average at the start of the epidemic), then the use of surgical masks by every infected case could reduce the reproductive number below 1. Compliance, however, would be a major limitation resulting in lower efficacy in real-world practice.

study also found that when flu patients wear a surgical mask, the release of virus in even the smallest airborne droplets can be significantly reduced.

So, um, yeah.

[ItsDanger]

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/studies-stir-new-debate-about-influenza-virus-size-transmission-risk

Article from 2013. "However, surgical masks are not as efficient at preventing release of very small particles. It is well known that surgical masks are not effective for preventing exposure to fine particles when worn as personal protection." I won't bother with the polyester/synthetic material masks I see around.

Of course they do state use of masks reduces release of particles by 3.4 factor "Compliance [in the proper use of masks], however, would be a major limitation resulting in lower efficacy in real-world practice." As they admitted back in Mar/Apr.

"Thirty-five percent of the influenza RNA was contained in particles >4 µm in aerodynamic diameter, while 23 percent was in particles 1 to 4 µm and 42 percent in particles <1 µm." its bioaerosols, not droplets that is the factor. This was clear back in March, the ONLY practical explanation for spread. these masks also have leakage.

"However, there was a big range of how many viruses people put into the air some were undetectable while others put out over 100,000 every 30 minutes." eg. superspreader.

SARS CoV2 has longer incubation period and significant asymptomatic cases which underscores the importance of the above comments.

Always refer to pre-2020 material. Always consider the 3 key variables: time, space, viral load.

In my time, the best students didn't go into medicine, they went into business, engineering, computers, even law. Unfortunately for us. But its clearly showing these days.

From your very own source...

First off, this, which maybe questions the applicability of the results:

The study addressed only the presence of influenza-containing particles near patients during routine care, not the actual transmission of influenza infection to others.

But proceeding to some of the findings anyways:

Wearing a surgical mask significantly decreased the presence of virus in airborne droplets from exhaled breath. There was a 2.8 fold reduction in the amount of virus shed into the smallest droplets, and a 3.4 fold overall reduction in virus shed in both the coarse and fine and airborne particles. As Milton, et al. (2013) note, "Surgical masks reduced the overall number of RNA copies by 3.4 fold. These results suggest an important role for aerosols in transmission of influenza virus and that surgical facemasks worn by infected persons are potentially an effective means of limiting the spread of influenza.

We view results from Johnson et al and the present study as complementary. Together the studies show that surgical masks can limit the emission of large droplet spray and aerosol droplets larger than 5 µm. However, surgical masks are not as efficient at preventing release of very small particles.
.....
Nevertheless, the overall 3.4 fold reduction in aerosol copy numbers we observed combined with a nearly complete elimination of large droplet spray demonstrated by Johnson et al. suggests that surgical masks worn by infected persons could have a clinically significant impact on transmission. For example if one hypothesized that all transmission were due to aerosol particles <50 µm, and estimated a reproductive number of 1.5 for influenza (i.e. each infection generates 1.5 new infections on average at the start of the epidemic), then the use of surgical masks by every infected case could reduce the reproductive number below 1. Compliance, however, would be a major limitation resulting in lower efficacy in real-world practice.

study also found that when flu patients wear a surgical mask, the release of virus in even the smallest airborne droplets can be significantly reduced.

So, um, yeah.[/quote]
Your first quote addresses first part of the article. My quotes are from after where they discuss common transmission. In comparing to SARS CoV 2 as I stated, one must adjust certain variables. The R0 <1 with surgical masks is going to be different given longer incubation and asymptomatic as compared to influenza. And as the 3 key variables I mention, this R0 figure they use will vary greatly. Such as reopened offices with 200+ people inside.

[NinjaBro]

Where are the mods? thread bringing out all the crazies again.

[Basketball_Jones]

I think we’re looking at 1000 cases a day for a while. And that arbitrary 28 days was just to save face. It was always going to be longer, numbers don’t just magically go down like that. It’s going to be a repeated cycle of open, shut down, open, shut down. Better to find a way forward while keeping things open imo.

[Clay Davis]

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/studies-stir-new-debate-about-influenza-virus-size-transmission-risk

Article from 2013. "However, surgical masks are not as efficient at preventing release of very small particles. It is well known that surgical masks are not effective for preventing exposure to fine particles when worn as personal protection." I won't bother with the polyester/synthetic material masks I see around.

Of course they do state use of masks reduces release of particles by 3.4 factor "Compliance [in the proper use of masks], however, would be a major limitation resulting in lower efficacy in real-world practice." As they admitted back in Mar/Apr.

"Thirty-five percent of the influenza RNA was contained in particles >4 µm in aerodynamic diameter, while 23 percent was in particles 1 to 4 µm and 42 percent in particles <1 µm." its bioaerosols, not droplets that is the factor. This was clear back in March, the ONLY practical explanation for spread. these masks also have leakage.

"However, there was a big range of how many viruses people put into the air some were undetectable while others put out over 100,000 every 30 minutes." eg. superspreader.

SARS CoV2 has longer incubation period and significant asymptomatic cases which underscores the importance of the above comments.

Always refer to pre-2020 material. Always consider the 3 key variables: time, space, viral load.

In my time, the best students didn't go into medicine, they went into business, engineering, computers, even law. Unfortunately for us. But its clearly showing these days.

Dude look at the admissions averages for every Ontario med school. You literally need a 3.9+ GPA, a competitive MCAT, and extremely good extracurriculars (kids with multiple publications get rejected all the time). The least competitive med school in Canada is about as competitive (for some. Some of them have different admissions criteria for different people, but the most competitive pool is typically EXTREMELY competitive) as Ivy League med schools (American med schools typically have admission averages of 3.5).

The CMA has been suppressing the number of doctors graduating each year to prop up salaries. Result is an extremely competitive medical education system.

[Dennis 37]

COVID-19 has caused more harm for the measures taken to "stop the spread" than the virus itself.

Lives ruined, economies hurt, and death rates low, yet there is constant fear mongering in the media, 24/7 from every outlet.

Draconian measures implemented and those who oppose are censored or discredited, for reasons unknown.

The only thing dumber than this post are the people who gave it an and1.

It’s always the same cabal. Wolverine and company. 13th man, bballinsight has Recently joined the fray. Alchemist too. I’ll give torraps some credit he doesn’t spam bs on here as much as those other guys. I’m surprised we haven’t seen dr negativity come running in here like the ultimate warrior. He’s their Hulk Hogan of this anti lockdown NWO like stable. Wolverine is like their Paul Bearer. Doesn’t say much but when he does open his mouth he just makes weird noises. They should have a name we can easily address them by. I propose ‘The Spirit Squad’. From now on these guys will be addressed with proper respect and we shall call them The Spirit Squad.

I really don't get their motive. They can't possibly be this stupid. I'm pretty sure they are just trolls who get lulz out of being contrarians.

But when you argue against something that is so obvious, I fail to see the fun in it.