OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

[bballsparkin]

So perfect.

Perfectamundo smart guy!

[Johnny Bball]

Even after a vaccine is developed and approved it will take a while for it to get administered to the whole population. I’m guessing masks and some forms of social distancing will be in place for the next 2 years. Which is fine, the whole point is to prevent the spread and if we get to the point where we can quickly trace and isolate cases the faster the return to normalcy. But this only works if everyone plays their part instead of being selfish ****.

Sounded like summer to me from what I heard form Trudeau and drug companies. But that's also with those at high risk done first.

I'll just travel and pay for it if I have to and can make it sooner.

Yeah summer sounds about right, but front line medical workers will get it first. I think it will be widespread soon after, but it will also require two doses. And don’t forget you need a critical mass of the population vaccinated before things can fully open up. But if about 30% of the population refuse to take the vaccine things can’t just return to normal. You’ll still require some form of prevention until you reach critical mass in the population.

We've been talking about that, friends and I, and figure if you think you've seen division now with masks etc., wait until a whole pile of muttonheads refuse the vaccine and you have different sets of rules for different people... it's going to be mayhem.

[Jcity08]

Sounded like summer to me from what I heard form Trudeau and drug companies. But that's also with those at high risk done first.

I'll just travel and pay for it if I have to and can make it sooner.

Yeah summer sounds about right, but front line medical workers will get it first. I think it will be widespread soon after, but it will also require two doses. And don’t forget you need a critical mass of the population vaccinated before things can fully open up. But if about 30% of the population refuse to take the vaccine things can’t just return to normal. You’ll still require some form of prevention until you reach critical mass in the population.

We've been talking about that, friends and I, and figure if you think you've seen division now with masks etc., wait until a whole pile of muttonheads refuse the vaccine and you have different sets of rules for different people... it's going to be mayhem.

Anti-Maskers will reveal their true final form Anti-Vaxxers.

Like when Freeza got his golden Freeza form.

[dafan590]

Whoever suggests herd immunity obviously has hidden agenda because his business is dying

What a fkin selfish prick you are, please use your brain first before you say anything. Health is always important before money. But you losers will never learn until you get infected and are getting closer to dying.

Mark my words!!!

[ItsDanger]

Whoever suggests herd immunity obviously has hidden agenda because his business is dying

What a fkin selfish prick you are, please use your brain first before you say anything. Health is always important before money. But you losers will never learn until you get infected and are getting closer to dying.

Mark my words!!!

Great point. I suggest slashing all government salaries & benefits by 40% and permanently reducing workforce by 25% minimum. To help pay for covid.

[Fairview4Life]

Whoever suggests herd immunity obviously has hidden agenda because his business is dying

What a fkin selfish prick you are, please use your brain first before you say anything. Health is always important before money. But you losers will never learn until you get infected and are getting closer to dying.

Mark my words!!!

Great point. I suggest slashing all government salaries & benefits by 40% and permanently reducing workforce by 25% minimum. To help pay for covid.

Or just borrow money at historically low interest rates. Or print more, since inflation is also ridiculously low at the moment.

[Caboclo]

Read on Twitter

934 new cases today

[BigBoss23]

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?s=21

[Fairview4Life]

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?s=21

What's your point lol? You think the virus that spreads when a bunch of people are together inside breathing on each other for extended periods of time looks at the sign before entering the building? Let's open restaurants where people can gather together for an hour or two in close contact because few of the current outbreaks were due to restaurants? Great plan! Amazing risk management!

[Caboclo]

Read on Twitter

[mtcan]

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?s=21

You don't need to eat inside of a restaurant for you to get your food and for them to make a profit.

You don't to work out inside a gym to be fit. Working out can be lots of different activities that don't occur in LA Fitness or Goodlife. And gyms can support their patrons in different ways while they aren't allowed to open.

These are compromises that in the short term seem like major inconveniences that in the long term will seem like nothing.

There are other ways to do things in times when things have to be a little different.

[BigBoss23]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

What's your point lol? You think the virus that spreads when a bunch of people are together inside breathing on each other for extended periods of time looks at the sign before entering the building? Let's open restaurants where people can gather together for an hour or two in close contact because few of the current outbreaks were due to restaurants? Great plan! Amazing risk management!

The data doesn't support your premise. Good thing is now that this is brought to light, shut downs over certain sectors will be lifted as we now finally have hard data contrary to fear mongers.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.5166794!/httpImage/image.png_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.png

[BigBoss23]

[Fairview4Life]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

What's your point lol? You think the virus that spreads when a bunch of people are together inside breathing on each other for extended periods of time looks at the sign before entering the building? Let's open restaurants where people can gather together for an hour or two in close contact because few of the current outbreaks were due to restaurants? Great plan! Amazing risk management!

The data doesn't support your premise. Good thing is now that this is brought to light, shut downs over certain sectors will be lifted as we now finally have hard data contrary to fear mongers.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.5166794!/httpImage/image.png_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.png

"The data" actually agrees with my statement that the virus spreads when a bunch of people are crowded together indoors. That isn't in dispute.

Secondly, did you even read the article? This, in particular, seems like a problem!

At the same time, there is still a large percentage of COVID-19 cases in which there is no epidemiological link to a source, particularly in the four Stage 2 regions.

The data shows that in the last seven days, about 65 per cent of cases in Toronto have not been traced back to a concrete source.

That number drops significantly in Ottawa (48.8 per cent), Durham (27.5 per cent) and Peel (16.9 per cent.)

This is the point:

“The variation in the source of outbreaks across those four public health units that had restrictions reasonably showing us that there's not one consistent pattern,” Brown told reporters at the news conference.

“There's often concern that we need to wait to see outbreaks in a particular public health unit before instituting restrictions. That would be akin to waiting to close the barn door until after the horses left.”

This is what you are basing your "let's open up a bunch of indoor spaces where people can gather together" plan on?

In Toronto, restaurants, bars and clubs accounted for 14 per cent of outbreaks between Aug. 1 and Oct. 24. compared to long-term care (18 per cent) and schools and daycares (22 per cent).

Gyms and sports accounted for roughly three per cent of Toronto outbreaks within that time period.

The difference becomes more drastic in other hot spots.

In Peel Region, restaurants accounted for about three per cent of all outbreaks compared to grocery and retail (19 per cent), schools and daycares (20 per cent), and industrial settings (22 per cent).

Restaurants and bars accounted for eight per cent of outbreaks in York and two per cent of outbreaks in Ottawa since Aug. 1.

[BigBoss23]

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-premier-facing-internal-backlash-over-covid-19-restrictions-1.5167874

[jaymeister15]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

You don't need to eat inside of a restaurant for you to get your food and for them to make a profit.

You don't to work out inside a gym to be fit. Working out can be lots of different activities that don't occur in LA Fitness or Goodlife. And gyms can support their patrons in different ways while they aren't allowed to open.

These are compromises that in the short term seem like major inconveniences that in the long term will seem like nothing.

There are other ways to do things in times when things have to be a little different.

In almost 3 months with all the gyms open, the government's own data only shows 6 outbreaks attributed to gyms in Toronto (actually combines sports clubs as well, so less than 6 to gyms themselves). It appears gyms were following the guidelines and they were working very well. Forget the economic benefits of keeping gyms open, the health benefits alone far outweigh the apparent minute risk of spread within them.

The 44% of outbreaks in Toronto number being attributed to restaurants in a bunch of headlines is also a far cry from the real number of 14% (while grouping all clubs, restaurants, and bars together)

Ottawa has had 3 outbreaks linked to restaurants in almost 3 months. How does that possibly justify shutting down indoor dining for the whole industry? Sure, they can do takeout, but that doesn't mean it's profitable or they are going to be able to survive (we've seen all the restaurants that have already closed permanently due to COVID since March)

It's easy to say in the long term this will seem like nothing when you aren't the one losing your business or house.

It was one thing to shut down businesses in MArch, or even now if they had concrete date to justify it. But, based on these numbers, it's going to be very hard to justify any further shutdowns in these industries after next week----the mayors of these areas, even Tory, are already showing much more opposition than a month ago.

[BigBoss23]

What's your point lol? You think the virus that spreads when a bunch of people are together inside breathing on each other for extended periods of time looks at the sign before entering the building? Let's open restaurants where people can gather together for an hour or two in close contact because few of the current outbreaks were due to restaurants? Great plan! Amazing risk management!

The data doesn't support your premise. Good thing is now that this is brought to light, shut downs over certain sectors will be lifted as we now finally have hard data contrary to fear mongers.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.5166794!/httpImage/image.png_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.png

"The data" actually agrees with my statement that the virus spreads when a bunch of people are crowded together indoors. That isn't in dispute.

Secondly, did you even read the article? This, in particular, seems like a problem!

At the same time, there is still a large percentage of COVID-19 cases in which there is no epidemiological link to a source, particularly in the four Stage 2 regions.

The data shows that in the last seven days, about 65 per cent of cases in Toronto have not been traced back to a concrete source.

That number drops significantly in Ottawa (48.8 per cent), Durham (27.5 per cent) and Peel (16.9 per cent.)

This is the point:

“The variation in the source of outbreaks across those four public health units that had restrictions reasonably showing us that there's not one consistent pattern,” Brown told reporters at the news conference.

“There's often concern that we need to wait to see outbreaks in a particular public health unit before instituting restrictions. That would be akin to waiting to close the barn door until after the horses left.”

This is what you are basing your "let's open up a bunch of indoor spaces where people can gather together" plan on?

In Toronto, restaurants, bars and clubs accounted for 14 per cent of outbreaks between Aug. 1 and Oct. 24. compared to long-term care (18 per cent) and schools and daycares (22 per cent).

Gyms and sports accounted for roughly three per cent of Toronto outbreaks within that time period.

The difference becomes more drastic in other hot spots.

In Peel Region, restaurants accounted for about three per cent of all outbreaks compared to grocery and retail (19 per cent), schools and daycares (20 per cent), and industrial settings (22 per cent).

Restaurants and bars accounted for eight per cent of outbreaks in York and two per cent of outbreaks in Ottawa since Aug. 1.

The argument was that bars, restaurants, and gyms were the source of outbreaks hence why they were forced to close.

In Peel/York/Toronto/Ottawa, the cases that have stemmed from these clusters is miniscule. Only in Toronto bars/restaurants could one argue that the stats presented. In Peel/York/Ottawa the data doesn't support the government's hypothesis.

Schools and daycares make up the most cases for every region and has been argued by many to be the main source since what changed from August to September?

[Fairview4Life]

The argument is that enclosed spaces where people gather for long periods of time are very easy ways to spread the virus. Just because infected people haven't shown up in those specific locations as much as some others between August 1->Oct. 24th, doesn't mean those places are safe to leave open. Viruses can't read. Arguing those places are safe because there hasn't been a ton of infections yet is some real "I haven't lost at Russian roulette yet, I should keep on pulling!" energy.

[jaymeister15]

Secondly, did you even read the article? This, in particular, seems like a problem!

At the same time, there is still a large percentage of COVID-19 cases in which there is no epidemiological link to a source, particularly in the four Stage 2 regions.

The data shows that in the last seven days, about 65 per cent of cases in Toronto have not been traced back to a concrete source.

That number drops significantly in Ottawa (48.8 per cent), Durham (27.5 per cent) and Peel (16.9 per cent.)

This is the point:

Why would you assume the cases that are unable to be traced back to a source would be disproportionately caused by gyms or restaurants? If anything, the number of outbreaks attributed to them is likely the most accurate as contact info for everyone that uses them is taken.

[BigBoss23]

The argument is that enclosed spaces where people gather for long periods of time are very easy ways to spread the virus. Just because infected people haven't shown up in those specific locations as much as some others between August 1->Sept. 24th, doesn't mean those places are safe to leave open. Viruses can't read. Arguing those places are safe because there hasn't been a ton of infections yet is some real "I haven't lost at Russian roulette yet, I should keep on pulling!" energy.

Doubling down even though the concrete data says you are full of hot air. Fear mongers, never change.