Who's the G.O.A.T. ?

[Brandon_Roy7]

You can't be the goat if your not respected from majority of fans. One guy on the poll shouldn't be up there. Case closed.

[Kingsway_fan]

You can't be the goat if your not respected from majority of fans. One guy on the poll shouldn't be up there. Case closed.

And the same group would also vote Taylor Swift as greatest pop star ever ... doesn't make it so.

Flawed logic. Case not closed.

That's why baseball has stats to compare Babe Ruth s accomplishments against today' s stars, in both relative and absolute terms.... and Jack Nicolas golf records against Tiger woods.... until such time as Tiger beats Jacks for most grand slams ... its Jack as GOAT in golf. Few dispute this.

Which is why Wilt is GOAT BY A MILE... N0T EVEN CLOSE. ALL WILTS 72 ALL TIME NBA RECORDS BACK HIM UP. BIG drop off after Wilt.

[twyzted]

Just pointing out the obvious fact that James played 60 more playoff games in those 13 seasons (179 for Jordan, 239 for James), which is how he was able to pass Jordan's totals in the same number of seasons.

Pretty much this: he played in a time when the first round was best of seven instead of best of five, the series he played in tended to go longer than the ones Jordan played in, and he spent most of his career going on long playoff runs through the Junior Varsity League. Which, coincidentally, also answers the question of why he lost six Finals: the West was typically a lot stronger than the East. Those who tout his ten Finals appearances conveniently forget that more than half of the league isn't even part of your competition to reach the Finals.

First of all MJ didn't "need" fewer games, he played fewer. And he played fewer games because he couldn't make more Finals. Capiche? MJ maxed out early. Fizzled out. Couldn't extend further into the playoffs. As a result MJ won fewer playoff series than LBJ as well.

Make sure you understand what you're saying. Facts: MJ won fewer playoff series and made fewer Finals than LeBron.

Secondly, sure LBJ took more games to pass MJ in points but LBJ also took 120 fewer shots to pass him too. He also is the only player to reach 6,000 or more playoff points (currently at 7,491).

Nice try.

Lebron - 13 playoffs - 260 games - 7491pts on 5388fga @ 49.8% fg 1.39 pts per shot 2348rb 1871ast @ 32.1% usg
MJ - 13 playoffs - 179 games - 5987 pts on 4497fga @ 48.7% fg 1.33 pts per shot 1152rb 1022ast @ 35.6% usg

Cumulatives aside, the efficiency numbers are not close if you understand the Assists / Usage stat.

To add to the complexity, each Lebron's career assist and bucket has come in the post 'Illegal defense' era, where players are allowed to cheat of their primary defensive assignment and hedge cover the drive or dissuade Lebron or a cutter from driving. No Zone / Zone + 1 / Hedge weak side complicated defenses were allowed against Michael.

A coach basically had two choices while guarding Mike or any guard during the 80s-90s -
- Let him drive and score 80-90%fg on single man to man coverage.
- Send a hard double, and let him pass to a cutter or an open shooter.

Read on Twitter

Before MJ fans dismiss the impact of the 'Illegal Defense' rule, read what Michael though about it - https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/michael-jordan-thought-michael-jordan-struggle-azone-defense-lebron-james-01e7dr8y7zvk

Lebron's already lapped Mike on rebounds. Will probably lap him on assists too next year.

Mike's the best scorer in league history, whose scoring efficiency shrinks 4% in the playoffs. Lebron is a pass first guy, whose passing and rebounding increase 17% and 35% respectively when it counts.

You dont even know how usg% works to begin with*. there is no relation between usg% and assists.
Lebron has 32.1usg% and 12.9 tov%
Jordan has 35.6usg% and 9.4tov% that means Jordan did not turn the ball over at a close rate to Lebron.

Playoff Shooting chart

this table shows that lebron shots 35% of his shots as layups, 23% are 3pts.
this only has shot chart for 97&98 for Jordan.
Jordan 22% are layups 8% from 3-10 feet, 58% from 10-23 feet, 10% from 3pt.
Wizards Jordan was shooting 70+% of his shots from 10-23 at 42%.
Kobe shot 40% of his shots from that distance at 41% in the playoffs
im not seeing that insane doubles to get lebron to stop driving vs that Jordan apperantly could shot layups uncontested.
it would suggest that the paint was crowded when Jordan played which is easily verifed by watching games.
Its amazing that lebron only has 1.1% better fg% that Jordan given the shots they are taking.

Jordan Regular Season for the bulls
39mpg 51fg% 33%-3p 52%-2p 52efg% 84ft% 6rpg 5apg 3spg 1bpg 3tpg 32ppg
Jordan Playoffs for the bulls
42mpg 49fg% 33%-3p 50%-2p 50efg% 83ft% 6rpg 6apg 2spg 1bpg 3tpg 33ppg
increase in assists, points and -2% fg where is this 4%

Regular Season Jordan Adv Stats
29.1PER 58.0TS% 5.0ORB% 13.7DRB% 9.4TRB% 24.9AST% 3.3STL% 1.5BLK% 9.3TOV% 33.5USG% 145.8OWS 58.7DWS 204.5WS .274WS/48 7.9OBPM 2.3DBPM 10.2BPM 110.6VORP

Playoff Jordan
28.6PER 56.8TS% 4.8ORB% 13.8DRB% 9.3TRB% 28.2AST% 2.7STL% 1.6BLK% 9.4TOV% 35.6USG% 27.3OWS 12.4DWS 39.8WS .255WS/48 8.8OBPM 2.3DBPM 11.1BPM 24.7VORP

Lebron Regular season cavs, heat, lakers
38mpg 50fg% 34%-3p 55%-2p 54efg% 73ft% 7rpg 7apg 2spg 1bpg 4tpg 27ppg
Lebron playoffs cavs, heat, lakers
42mpg 50fg% 34%-3p 54$-2p 53efg% 74ft% 9rpg 7apg 2spg 1bpg 4tpg 29ppg

Regular Season Lebron Adv Stats
27.5PER 58.6TS% 3.7ORB% 18.5DRB% 11.2TRB% 36.5AST% 2.2STL% 1.6BLK% 13.2TOV% 31.5USG% 165.8OWS 70.6DWS 236.4WS .234WS/48 7.1OBPM 1.8DBPM 8.9BPM 133.7VORP

Playoff Lebron Adv Stats
28.4 PER 58.4TS% 4.4ORB% 21.4DRB% 13.0TRB% 35.4AST% 2.2STL% 2.0BLK% 12.9TOV% 32.1USG% 38.1OWS 17.2DWS 55.3WS .245WS/48 7.6OBPM 2.5DBPM 10.2BPM 33.2VORP

im not seeing 17% or 34% increase for Lebron in rebounds or Assists?
Jordan goes from 24.9ast% to 28.2ast% in the playoffs.
Lebron goes from 36.5ast% to 35.4ast% in the playoffs.
Jordan increases his ast% in the playoffs while it decreases for Lebron.

also ows, dws, ws, vorp is accumulated and playing longer would increase it. Lebron has those
PER, WS/48, OBPM. DBPM, BPM are averages and indicate How good not how long. Jordan has these.
With higher ppg in rs and ps.
Similar Apg, spg, bpg.

Jordan in finals
34ppg 6rpg 6apg2spg 3topg 49% 38% 81%
Lebron in finals
28ppg 10rpg 8apg 2spg 1bpg 4topg 48% 36% 73%

I dont see a case for Lebron outside of longevity.
More titles.
More MVPs.
More FMVPs.
More DPOY.
More ALL Defense.
Better Adv Stats.
>>>>
More All Nba.
More acumulated stats.


*this is how usg% is calculated. assists are not counted. it is if you end up shooting 2p-3p-ft and turnovers. assists made dont go in it.
Usg% - Usage Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)). Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.

[AgentGreen]

Longer NBA career? Sorry to say but you're completely wrong, downright wrong. Inaccurate and misguided. I'll keep it simple for you.

LeBron passed MJ in all major stats using EQUAL playoff series runs (13 years to 13 years ).
13 playoffs vs 13 playoffs is not a "longer career" it's an equal measuring stick.

This most recent 14th playoff run in 2020 was just more icing on the cake to pile even more stats over MJ but by the 13th playoff LeBron had already passed MJ in playoff points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. Those are the facts, stop trying to distort them. The reason LeBron did more is because he is the most consistent player in the entire world. 10 Finals to 6 Finals counts for something. Having zero 1st round exits counts for something. And at the end of the day MJ has the rings and LBJ has the stats. Don't start spouting off about "Longer career" when you don't know what the hell you're talking about. 13 years to 13 years. Period.

Fair enough, i shouldve looked at the playoff years true.. But if Lebron is so consistent why did he lose 6 finals? Lebron reached the Finals in one of the weakest Conference in the NBA since the 80's, while Jordan played in the toughest conference in his era.

So Jordan also averages more pt's per game while he played in a harder defensive era? He didn't shy away from shooting ft's, on a good percentage, which his stats are telling us as well. Jordan tops him pts, stls and ft% in career playoff per game average. obviously you dont know what you're talking about when you say that he topped him in all stats.

Basketball has always been about getting buckets and winning titles. Plus Lebron doesn't have all the stats in his favor. The one thing you guys arent taking into account is on what positions both players play. It's obvious that Lebron would top Jordan in Rebounding. Jordan is a guard and Lebron is a SF/PF. But still taking that in account Jordan has other stats still in his advantage like pts and steals. Advanced stats like PER, WS/48, OBPM, DBPM, BPM. Dont even get me started about personal awards, like MVP, FMVP, Scoring champion, DPOY etc.

Im just gonna point out that when Lebron passed Jordan points record he was playing his 212th playoff game.
Jordan only needed 179 games.
Just saying.
Buzzer beaters are also misleading.
Because 98 shot vs jazz was not a buzzer beater. But it counts as a game winning shot.
Jordan is 9/18 on game winners in the playoffs.
Lebron 7/15

5 secs to go in the 4th or overtime.
Lbjs team need a bucket to win or tie.
Lebron is 19/94 in such shots

The buzzer beater stat
in the playoffs is such a small sample that you cant even get a true picture of who the better clutch player is in reality.

Like you said. If you combine all clutch shots MJ and LBJ have taken during their career then there is a different result and its a better sample because more shots are taken, which makes the result more reliable. Lebron's career buzzer beater percentage is roughly 20% and Jordans career percentage is a remarkable 50%. FIFTY frickin percent!!!

[twyzted]

Fair enough, i shouldve looked at the playoff years true.. But if Lebron is so consistent why did he lose 6 finals? Lebron reached the Finals in one of the weakest Conference in the NBA since the 80's, while Jordan played in the toughest conference in his era.

So Jordan also averages more pt's per game while he played in a harder defensive era? He didn't shy away from shooting ft's, on a good percentage, which his stats are telling us as well. Jordan tops him pts, stls and ft% in career playoff per game average. obviously you dont know what you're talking about when you say that he topped him in all stats.

Basketball has always been about getting buckets and winning titles. Plus Lebron doesn't have all the stats in his favor. The one thing you guys arent taking into account is on what positions both players play. It's obvious that Lebron would top Jordan in Rebounding. Jordan is a guard and Lebron is a SF/PF. But still taking that in account Jordan has other stats still in his advantage like pts and steals. Advanced stats like PER, WS/48, OBPM, DBPM, BPM. Dont even get me started about personal awards, like MVP, FMVP, Scoring champion, DPOY etc.

Im just gonna point out that when Lebron passed Jordan points record he was playing his 212th playoff game.
Jordan only needed 179 games.
Just saying.
Buzzer beaters are also misleading.
Because 98 shot vs jazz was not a buzzer beater. But it counts as a game winning shot.
Jordan is 9/18 on game winners in the playoffs.
Lebron 7/15

5 secs to go in the 4th or overtime.
Lbjs team need a bucket to win or tie.
Lebron is 19/94 in such shots

The buzzer beater stat
in the playoffs is such a small sample that you cant even get a true picture of who the better clutch player is in reality.

Like you said. If you combine all clutch shots MJ and LBJ have taken during their career then there is a different result and its a better sample because more shots are taken, which makes the result more reliable. Lebron's career buzzer beater percentage is roughly 20% and Jordans career percentage is a remarkable 50%. FIFTY frickin percent!!!

This is one of the best example of Jordan "clutch"

Watch on YouTube

If you go to 2:01:50 on this youtube video there is a comercial break but this is some other feed so you hear mike fratello and marv albert talk

(Mike and Marv talking off camera)
Mike: Marv's shaking his head like there's no way ...
Marv: Yup ... Michael's gonna come in and wreck this. No ... He is, I mean that's what's gonna happen ... it's over.

This is only bulls 2nd final apperance. 1 title.
The annouoncers know it will happen.
Around 8:30 left in the game portland 81 bulls 78.
Jordan comes in scores 12of19 bulls points to close the series 97-93. Shoots 5/7 2/2 fts 2rbs 2ast 2stls in those minutes.
And it happened.
How did Lebron 2nd finals apperance go?
18ppg. Lost badly.

[JordansBulls]

You can't be the goat if your not respected from majority of fans. One guy on the poll shouldn't be up there. Case closed.

I think 1 title in 11 years for the franchise that drafted you is a bigger storyteller

[djsunyc]

You can't be the goat if your not respected from majority of fans. One guy on the poll shouldn't be up there. Case closed.

if jordan existed during social media, he wouldn't be viewed as heroic as he is now.

[scrabbarista]

I have to be honest... I really think it's possible LeBron James and Kobe Bryant are better than Michael Jordan...







2 on 1...



... as long as Jordan deosn't take it personally.

[scrabbarista]

Sweet stuff posted a couple of days ago (less than two minutes long):

Watch on YouTube

He doesn't bother mentioning MJ's line, but he includes a link to the bbref boxscore.

Jordan had 33 points, 15 rebs, 9 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, 1 turnover. 14-30 from the field, 0-2 from three, 5-6 from the line. I think there are two or three times in this reel where he'd likely have gotten a foul in his favor in today's game.

[JordansBulls]

The guy has 4 titles despite stacking the deck forming star teams. Imagine how many titles MJ has playing with Barkley or Ewing and then switching to Kemp/Payton or Tim Hardaway and Zo and then switching to play with Duncan in 1998.

[pootbrah]

Chris Pontius

[KayDee35]

MJ's second three-peat playoff runs were great but not elite. His playoff PER for those 3 years were 26.7, 27.1, and 28.1. Those aren't bad numbers but compared to the first three-peat, where he had 32.0, 27.2, and 30.1, there is a significant drop-off.

Age took it's toll on MJ. He was 32 at the beginning of the second 3-peat. In fact, MJ didn't come close to a 30 PER after turning 30. Yes, he was away from the game, and came back when he was 31, I know. He had a playoff PER of 24.8 at age 31 which I omitted because he joined the team late that year.

LeBron's playoff PERs since turning 30 look like this: 25.3, 30.0, 30.1, 32.2, and 30.2. That 32.2 PER at age 33 is better than any of MJ's playoff PERs. LeBron didn't make the playoffs the one year he missed significant time due to injury so we don't have anything for him at age 34.

The second half of MJ's and LeBron's careers are markedly different. MJ's is one of slow decline with moments of brilliance but not the consistent dominance that was associated with him. LeBron's is one of surprisingly elite play that has never been done by anyone at his age. Considering the extended miles that LeBron has due to coming out of HS and having more deep playoff runs than anyone else in the history of the game, it's amazing that he is still dominant in the playoffs. Dominant at the level of MJ in his 20s.

Plenty of shine from MJ's first 3-peat carried over to his second 3-peat. But after 30, MJ was closer to Kobe than his earlier self. Kobe's no slouch as he's an all time great himself. However, the gap between MJ and Kobe at the same ages is real - I don't think anyone disputes that. MJ performing like Kobe was good enough for 3 consecutive rings.

MJ came into the league at 21 and retired (finally) at 39. Had he not taken years off, he would have had the same number of years on either side of age 20. His body would have worn down more without the breaks, so we don't know how long his career would have gone. Assuming LeBron, who turns 36 this year, goes another 3 years, he will get an opportunity to build on his already historic performances for his age.

(I went with PER despite it's flaws because it's a metric that both do well on and is often used to elevate them above their peers.)

TLDR; Playoff MJ's age took a toll on his performance taking him down a notch. Playoff LeBron hasn't aged.

[Lalouie]

kareem or russell, take your pick.
why?
because this lebron/mj thing is getting annoying besides being untrue

[azizx]

Hindsight is too powerful. If we were told that Lebron had to go through POR, HOU, DEN, MIA to win the 2020 NBA championship, which of those teams would’ve been acceptable for him to lose to?

That’s why, Lebron joining up with AD on the Lakers actually endangered Lebron’s legacy. Losing to any of those teams would have destroyed Lebron’s chance at becoming GOAT.

After the 3rd ring, Lebron was solidly in the GOAT conversation, but I could understand people putting him #2. Sure, Lebron had the stats and the eye test, but he needed more hardware. This 4th ring, while it does signify Lebron’s incredibly longevity at the top, didn’t do much in the minds of most people.

For me though, I felt like Lebron was already the GOAT player in 2016. The only remaining argument is MJ having the GOAT career, which is an acceptable argument in itself, but player vs player, I’m taking Lebron.

[twyzted]

MJ's second three-peat playoff runs were great but not elite. His playoff PER for those 3 years were 26.7, 27.1, and 28.1. Those aren't bad numbers but compared to the first three-peat, where he had 32.0, 27.2, and 30.1, there is a significant drop-off.

Age took it's toll on MJ. He was 32 at the beginning of the second 3-peat. In fact, MJ didn't come close to a 30 PER after turning 30. Yes, he was away from the game, and came back when he was 31, I know. He had a playoff PER of 24.8 at age 31 which I omitted because he joined the team late that year.

LeBron's playoff PERs since turning 30 look like this: 25.3, 30.0, 30.1, 32.2, and 30.2. That 32.2 PER at age 33 is better than any of MJ's playoff PERs. LeBron didn't make the playoffs the one year he missed significant time due to injury so we don't have anything for him at age 34.

The second half of MJ's and LeBron's careers are markedly different. MJ's is one of slow decline with moments of brilliance but not the consistent dominance that was associated with him. LeBron's is one of surprisingly elite play that has never been done by anyone at his age. Considering the extended miles that LeBron has due to coming out of HS and having more deep playoff runs than anyone else in the history of the game, it's amazing that he is still dominant in the playoffs. Dominant at the level of MJ in his 20s.

Plenty of shine from MJ's first 3-peat carried over to his second 3-peat. But after 30, MJ was closer to Kobe than his earlier self. Kobe's no slouch as he's an all time great himself. However, the gap between MJ and Kobe at the same ages is real - I don't think anyone disputes that. MJ performing like Kobe was good enough for 3 consecutive rings.

MJ came into the league at 21 and retired (finally) at 39. Had he not taken years off, he would have had the same number of years on either side of age 20. His body would have worn down more without the breaks, so we don't know how long his career would have gone. Assuming LeBron, who turns 36 this year, goes another 3 years, he will get an opportunity to build on his already historic performances for his age.

(I went with PER despite it's flaws because it's a metric that both do well on and is often used to elevate them above their peers.)

TLDR; Playoff MJ's age took a toll on his performance taking him down a notch. Playoff LeBron hasn't aged.

So basicly you took the only thing Lebron has over 2nd 3peat Jordan.
For instance Jordan has usg% of 35.1 and tov% 7.5
Lebron has 32.5 usg% and tov% 14.2
That is a huge diffrence. Jordan did not turn the ball over.
And also Jordan won 3 titles 3 fmvps and 2 mvps with 3 all nba 1st and all def 1st those years.
Pippen had his 2 worst performances in 98&96
Then in 97 Jordan and Pippen only guys who scored over 8ppg. Rodman had a PER of 7.9 in 97&10.8 in 98.


Also Lebron has had 10 tries and Jordan has 91 as clearly better then any of Lebrons.
8.4apg with 2.5tpg vs 16 lbj 7.4apg with 3.6tpg for the playoffs.
Lebron barely gets over 2.5 turnover to assists in any finals run and Jordan has gotten to 3.5+
Then you have 93 who is on par to Lebron 16 run if not better.
Also 91 was Jordans first finals while it took Lebron 2 finals to show up.

tldr:So basicly Jordan willed them to 2 titles.

[Chanel Bomber]

It's still pretty clearly MJ to me, although LeBron has definitely joined the conversation with MJ, Kareem and Russell.

LeBron has too often needed to change situations to maintain a competitive edge, and he too often has been the underdog for me to put him over MJ. His greatest accomplishment was an upset of the heavily favored 73-win Warriors. MJ was the 73-win Warriors of his era, in addition to him consistently winning and confirming his status as top dog.

MJ stayed in Chicago and elevated his teammates, notably Pippen who was completely unreliable offensively and who was largely carried by MJ. MJ also had the leadership to rein in Pippen and his beach ass tendencies, whereas LeBron couldn't adapt to Kyrie who fled from Cleveland and ultimately caused LeBron's second departure. These things should matter. Let's be honest, MJ also never played with a Dwyane Wade or an Anthony Davis for instance.

[Chanel Bomber]

*260 playoff games.

lebron has now been the clear-cut best player in the finals 8 times and is still the best in the world in his 17th/18th season, east... west... don't matter, lebron is a one man dynasty.

Reducing the conversation to career totals without taking averages, advanced stats, peaks, longevity, intangibles, external factors, supporting casts, team records and collective dominance, cultural impact etc. (some of which favor LeBron) is the epitome of dumbing things down.

It's just stupid. And predictably convenient.

[twyzted]

It's still pretty clearly MJ to me, although LeBron has definitely joined the conversation with MJ, Kareem and Russell.

LeBron has too often needed to change situations to maintain a competitive edge, and he too often has been the underdog for me to put him over MJ. His greatest accomplishment was an upset of the heavily favored 73-win Warriors. MJ was the 73-win Warriors of his era, in addition to him consistently winning and confirming his status as top dog.

MJ stayed in Chicago and elevated his teammates, notably Pippen who was completely unreliable offensively and who was largely carried by MJ. MJ also had the leadership to rein in Pippen and his beach ass tendencies, whereas LeBron couldn't adapt to Kyrie who fled from Cleveland and ultimately caused LeBron's second departure. These things should matter. Let's be honest, MJ also never played with a Dwyane Wade or an Anthony Davis for instance.

Well lebron has won 2 finals in 7 games both of them coming from 3-1&3-2 deficite.
Both times he was playing poorly in those games to be behind.
43%fg 30%3pt 71%ft with 22ppg in 13 and 25ppg with 6turnovers per game in 16.
He gets his rebounds and assists
But his teams were losing because he shot so poorly.

Jordan only went down in the finals 2 times then he lost the 1st game then won 4&3 in a row.
There are 3 games for the first 3peat where he shot under 50% that out of 15 games.
Lebron shot under 50% in 11 of his first 15 finals games.

Should we give him props for playing poorly to get in the hole and then deciding to show up?
Over never getting in the hole to begin with?

[Chanel Bomber]

It's still pretty clearly MJ to me, although LeBron has definitely joined the conversation with MJ, Kareem and Russell.

LeBron has too often needed to change situations to maintain a competitive edge, and he too often has been the underdog for me to put him over MJ. His greatest accomplishment was an upset of the heavily favored 73-win Warriors. MJ was the 73-win Warriors of his era, in addition to him consistently winning and confirming his status as top dog.

MJ stayed in Chicago and elevated his teammates, notably Pippen who was completely unreliable offensively and who was largely carried by MJ. MJ also had the leadership to rein in Pippen and his beach ass tendencies, whereas LeBron couldn't adapt to Kyrie who fled from Cleveland and ultimately caused LeBron's second departure. These things should matter. Let's be honest, MJ also never played with a Dwyane Wade or an Anthony Davis for instance.

Well lebron has won 2 finals in 7 games both of them coming from 3-1&3-2 deficite.
Both times he was playing poorly in those games to be behind.
43%fg 30%3pt 71%ft with 22ppg in 13 and 25ppg with 6turnovers per game in 16.
He gets his rebounds and assists
But his teams were losing because he shot so poorly.

Jordan only went down in the finals 2 times then he lost the 1st game then won 4&3 in a row.
There are 3 games for the first 3peat where he shot under 50% that out of 15 games.
Lebron shot under 50% in 11 of his first 15 finals games.

Should we give him props for playing poorly to get in the hole and then deciding to show up?
Over never getting in the hole to begin with?

I think it balances out. It matters that he did show up and redeem himself in these elimination games. It’s the same reason I rank Dirk over Malone. Both notorious playoff chokers, except Dirk came through at the end. I think those LeBron performances with his back against the wall show his character. And he’s the best game 7 performer of all-time with or over Clyde Frazier.

I’m firmly in the MJ camp but he was older than LeBron was in their respective first 15 Finals games. Although there’s no excuse for LeBron playing so poorly in the 2011 Finals.

[Djoker]

For me personally it's impossible to take Lebron over Jordan because he simply wasn't the better player AND he accomplished less. By basic and advanced stats the best version of Jordan from 1989 to 1993 were better than any version of Lebron. And then we look at 6-4 edge in titles and it becomes impossible. Not to mention Lebron's 2020 title was probably a 1a/1b situation. Davis had a monster postseason and MJ never had a teammate anywhere near that level.