2020 Draft

WizarDynasty · Post #1901 » by **WizarDynasty** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 10:59 pm

Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:Interesting suggestion -- one no one has thought of at all: good for you!

You mention a possible "buy- low opportunity," but all the same I'm not sure NO would be willing to trade the guy they picked #5 in last year's draft for the #9 pick in this year's draft. Especially given that he played a lot for a rookie -- almost 1100 minutes -- & played quite well too.

One other thing -- not that I follow the Pels in particular -- but I haven't read anywhere that they have an interest in moving Hayes. Have I missed something?

If so, & if we should be interested, nothing says it has to be a pick that we trade for him. Might be worth bringing this up in the trade thread?

Yeah, I think NO targeted Hayes especially as a fit for Zion - who is to lead them to the promised land. Can't see them looking to trade Hayes now. NO's going to be a fun team to watch when they figure out how to play basketball and stay healthy.

Not a big fan of Hayes. He needs serious work on his perimeter skills.

nolang1 · Post #1902 » by **nolang1** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 11:04 pm

payitforward wrote:Interesting suggestion -- one no one has thought of at all: good for you!

You mention a possible "buy- low opportunity," but all the same I'm not sure NO would be willing to trade the guy they picked #5 in last year's draft for the #9 pick in this year's draft. Especially given that he played a lot for a rookie -- almost 1100 minutes -- & played quite well too.

One other thing -- not that I follow the Pels in particular -- but I haven't read anywhere that they have an interest in moving Hayes. Have I missed something?

If so, & if we should be interested, nothing says it has to be a pick that we trade for him. Might be worth bringing this up in the trade thread?

They drafted him #8 and he's one year closer to free agency now. It probably would take more than #9, but Washington is going to have to move up if they want Okongwu anyway and Hayes might be available for about the same or even less while being the player with more upside IMO. Between the Pelicans hiring more of a win-now coach known for playing four-out offense and Zion coming in heavy and playing as more of a small-ball five (he and Hayes played only 22 minutes together on the year, and Hayes' minutes were basically cut in half down to 11 mpg once Zion started playing), it really doesn't seem like Hayes is some untouchable player for them. They wouldn't just give him away, but this is a player who conceivably could've been considered for #1 overall this draft based on how much he improved over the past season.

WizarDynasty · Post #1903 » by **WizarDynasty** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 11:13 pm

nolang1 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Interesting suggestion -- one no one has thought of at all: good for you!

You mention a possible "buy- low opportunity," but all the same I'm not sure NO would be willing to trade the guy they picked #5 in last year's draft for the #9 pick in this year's draft. Especially given that he played a lot for a rookie -- almost 1100 minutes -- & played quite well too.

One other thing -- not that I follow the Pels in particular -- but I haven't read anywhere that they have an interest in moving Hayes. Have I missed something?

If so, & if we should be interested, nothing says it has to be a pick that we trade for him. Might be worth bringing this up in the trade thread?

They drafted him #8 and he's one year closer to free agency now. It probably would take more than #9, but Washington is going to have to move up if they want Okongwu anyway and Hayes might be available for about the same or even less while being the player with more upside IMO. Between the Pelicans hiring more of a win-now coach known for playing four-out offense and Zion coming in heavy and playing as more of a small-ball five (he and Hayes played only 22 minutes together on the year, and Hayes' minutes were basically cut in half down to 11 mpg once Zion started playing), it really doesn't seem like Hayes is some untouchable player for them. They wouldn't just give him away, but this is a player who conceivably could've been considered for #1 overall this draft based on how much he improved over the past season.

I don't see the upside at all with Hayes. Maybe there are some clips that show he has alot perimeter skill potential but I haven't found any. He also doesn't seem like he has the ability to draw fouls one on one in the post.

doclinkin · Post #1904 » by **doclinkin** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 11:14 pm

Watch on YouTube

Yeah not the level of maturity this squad is looking for. On top of averaging fouling out per 40 minutes, I'm gonna say he still has a ton of learning to do, professionally and on court.

nolang1 · Post #1905 » by **nolang1** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 11:25 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Interesting suggestion -- one no one has thought of at all: good for you!

You mention a possible "buy- low opportunity," but all the same I'm not sure NO would be willing to trade the guy they picked #5 in last year's draft for the #9 pick in this year's draft. Especially given that he played a lot for a rookie -- almost 1100 minutes -- & played quite well too.

One other thing -- not that I follow the Pels in particular -- but I haven't read anywhere that they have an interest in moving Hayes. Have I missed something?

If so, & if we should be interested, nothing says it has to be a pick that we trade for him. Might be worth bringing this up in the trade thread?

They drafted him #8 and he's one year closer to free agency now. It probably would take more than #9, but Washington is going to have to move up if they want Okongwu anyway and Hayes might be available for about the same or even less while being the player with more upside IMO. Between the Pelicans hiring more of a win-now coach known for playing four-out offense and Zion coming in heavy and playing as more of a small-ball five (he and Hayes played only 22 minutes together on the year, and Hayes' minutes were basically cut in half down to 11 mpg once Zion started playing), it really doesn't seem like Hayes is some untouchable player for them. They wouldn't just give him away, but this is a player who conceivably could've been considered for #1 overall this draft based on how much he improved over the past season.

I don't see the upside at all with Hayes. Maybe there are some clips that show he has alot perimeter skill potential but I haven't found any. He also doesn't seem like he has the ability to draw fouls one on one in the post.

This is in comparison to Okongwu, who has seemingly been Washington's main target (and now has other teams ahead of the Wizards considering him as well as teams like the Celtics trying to move up into that range for him). Both of those players can be good without shooting threes or handling the ball on the perimeter, and Okongwu didn't shoot threes in college and hit a lower percentage at the line than Hayes did. It's not like teenage bigs come into the league as great three-point shooters anyways; Anthony Davis had only made three NBA three-pointers by the end of his third season.

WizarDynasty · Post #1906 » by **WizarDynasty** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 11:50 pm

nolang1 wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
They drafted him #8 and he's one year closer to free agency now. It probably would take more than #9, but Washington is going to have to move up if they want Okongwu anyway and Hayes might be available for about the same or even less while being the player with more upside IMO. Between the Pelicans hiring more of a win-now coach known for playing four-out offense and Zion coming in heavy and playing as more of a small-ball five (he and Hayes played only 22 minutes together on the year, and Hayes' minutes were basically cut in half down to 11 mpg once Zion started playing), it really doesn't seem like Hayes is some untouchable player for them. They wouldn't just give him away, but this is a player who conceivably could've been considered for #1 overall this draft based on how much he improved over the past season.

I don't see the upside at all with Hayes. Maybe there are some clips that show he has alot perimeter skill potential but I haven't found any. He also doesn't seem like he has the ability to draw fouls one on one in the post.

This is in comparison to Okongwu, who has seemingly been Washington's main target (and now has other teams ahead of the Wizards considering him as well as teams like the Celtics trying to move up into that range for him). Both of those players can be good without shooting threes or handling the ball on the perimeter, and Okongwu didn't shoot threes in college and hit a lower percentage at the line than Hayes did. It's not like teenage bigs come into the league as great three-point shooters anyways; Anthony Davis had only made three NBA three-pointers by the end of his third season.

Hayes need to train for about a year dribbling with a deep hip bend and using is off hand. That would really help him out alot. I mean like 5 hours a day 365 days.

payitforward · Post #1907 » by **payitforward** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 1:13 am

nolang1 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Interesting suggestion -- one no one has thought of at all: good for you!

You mention a possible "buy- low opportunity," but all the same I'm not sure NO would be willing to trade the guy they picked #5 in last year's draft for the #9 pick in this year's draft. Especially given that he played a lot for a rookie -- almost 1100 minutes -- & played quite well too.

One other thing -- not that I follow the Pels in particular -- but I haven't read anywhere that they have an interest in moving Hayes. Have I missed something?

If so, & if we should be interested, nothing says it has to be a pick that we trade for him. Might be worth bringing this up in the trade thread?

They drafted him #8 and he's one year closer to free agency now. It probably would take more than #9, but Washington is going to have to move up if they want Okongwu anyway and Hayes might be available for about the same or even less while being the player with more upside IMO. Between the Pelicans hiring more of a win-now coach known for playing four-out offense and Zion coming in heavy and playing as more of a small-ball five (he and Hayes played only 22 minutes together on the year, and Hayes' minutes were basically cut in half down to 11 mpg once Zion started playing), it really doesn't seem like Hayes is some untouchable player for them. They wouldn't just give him away, but this is a player who conceivably could've been considered for #1 overall this draft based on how much he improved over the past season.

Yeah, I mistyped his draft position.

Please don't feel like you have to defend your idea! It was & is interesting, & I didn't mean to suggest that Hayes is untouchable.

You make a key point about Hayes when you mention his improvement. It's pretty unusual for a guy come into the league as a one-n-done -- & then upgrade his game in his rookie year.

doclinkin · Post #1908 » by **doclinkin** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 12:06 pm

Aaron Nesmith is going to be a successful pro. Sweet sweet shot, developing defender.

Ruzious · Post #1909 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 12:18 pm

doclinkin wrote:Aaron Nesmith is going to be a successful pro. Sweet sweet shot, developing defender.

If we trade down a few spots, he'd be a fine target.

Dat2U · Post #1910 » by **Dat2U** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 1:36 pm

Ruzious wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Aaron Nesmith is going to be a successful pro. Sweet sweet shot, developing defender.

If we trade down a few spots, he'd be a fine target.

Nesmith has been one of my favorites since I've started scouting this draft. I think he's a safe pick if the physical checks out. I put him over the suspect shooting & low volume wings in the draft. Shooting is such a premium value nowadays, I don't see him slipping very far.

I thought the same with Herro last year. Maybe 9 is too high and you can trade a get him AND someone else. Turned out not to be case. Nesmith I believe will go in the lottery too.

WizarDynasty · Post #1911 » by **WizarDynasty** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 2:53 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Aaron Nesmith is going to be a successful pro. Sweet sweet shot, developing defender.

If we trade down a few spots, he'd be a fine target.

Nesmith has been one of my favorites since I've started scouting this draft. I think he's a safe pick if the physical checks out. I put him over the suspect shooting & low volume wings in the draft. Shooting is such a premium value nowadays, I don't see him slipping very far.

I thought the same with Herro last year. Maybe 9 is too high and you can trade a get him AND someone else. Turned out not to be case. Nesmith I believe will go in the lottery too.

Nesmith Maybe at the end of the first round. He is a horrible defender, guards with his knees meaning his knees are getting damaged. He play below the rim. He has poor body control, can't slow down, speed up, and offensive hip bend while dribbling is mediocre. I agree that he can hit wide open jumpshots but there is definitely something weird about his landing. But if we had a second pick in the late 20's i would consider him after tillman from michigan. AChiuwa with first pick and then buy a late 1st and grab Tillman-- or Nesmith--or another big body Gilbert Arenas type point guard. Gil was drafted in 2nd round.

doclinkin · Post #1912 » by **doclinkin** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 2:57 pm

Kneebend or no kneebend, I'd be very alright if we somehow managed the Achiuwa Nesmith Tillman draft. Seems unlikely in the extreme, but those are 3 on my list.

Ruzious · Post #1913 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 3:12 pm

I'm a Bane guy if we end up with a pick in the early 20's. Very short wingspan and not real quick, but his shooting is like Nesmith's, and he's strong and a defensive leader - like a better shooting less bulky Jae Crowder.

Post #1914 » by **Jamaaliver** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 4:10 pm

Post #1915 » by **Jamaaliver** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 4:38 pm

Read on Twitter

pcbothwel · Post #1916 » by **pcbothwel** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 4:51 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:

Read on Twitter

Love em.
Reed, Tillman, and the PGs (Winston, Pritchard, Flynn) are my at the top of my board when you get in the 2nd.

WizarDynasty · Post #1917 » by **WizarDynasty** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 4:59 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:

I would never trust draft experts that are not former hall of fame players LOL. They all have horrible track records and Wizards always get burned following their advice. Go look at past drafts.. Derrick Williams, Hasheet Thabeet, Evan Turner, andrew Wiggins, Markelle Fultz, list goes on and on. You have to trust your skills, never use these guys the consensus mock draft as measuring stick of a player value relative to others. Standing Reach relative to the position is the easiest way to filter out espn mock drafts and they never provide standing reach for the players..only wingspan and vertical.
After standing reach, look at how long they can bend their hips deeply and control their movements. Those two things tell you the real story.
Right now, we have to look at videos to see how far their hands are from the net right before they jump for a rebound. and we have to look at how deeply they bend their hips when they dribble and can they control and change their speed.
Do they bobble the ball when they dribble with their off hand.
No Front office is going to put out they really want, they are going to put out people they don't care about.
Either you put out a player that you want like Golden State because they know that he is not worth number 2 or you push up other players to make sure your guys is their. You front office is going to broadcast that they want Tom Brady--when he is projected to go in the 6th round.

payitforward · Post #1918 » by **payitforward** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 7:48 pm

The trade down with Boston continues to look like an outstanding opportunity -- even if we only got 14 & 26.

If I shared the "as close to 'can't miss' as possible" grade on Achiuwa that I think WD has, then that would likely change my mind.

WizarDynasty · Post #1919 » by **WizarDynasty** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 8:43 pm

payitforward wrote:The trade down with Boston continues to look like an outstanding opportunity -- even if we only got 14 & 26.

If I shared the "as close to 'can't miss' as possible" grade on Achiuwa that I think WD has, then that would likely change my mind.

Just because draft mocks say he is going to be there, doesn't mean that he will be there. And then you will have Dion Waiters instead of Bradley Beal, one pick difference can mean the difference between a 5 dollar bill and a 100 dollar bill. You can save your franchise or you can cripple it just by trying to look fancy.

Frichuela · Post #1920 » by **Frichuela** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 8:46 pm

payitforward wrote:The trade down with Boston continues to look like an outstanding opportunity -- even if we only got 14 & 26.

If I shared the "as close to 'can't miss' as possible" grade on Achiuwa that I think WD has, then that would likely change my mind.

Agreed, and in that case:

Nesmith or Saddiq Bey at #14
Tillman at #26

Would be a great get!!