OT Election Thread

[Dresden]

There is a lot of talk about the need to "heal" right now. But are democrats supposed to just forget about all the insults and injustices they had to suffer at the hands of Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell the past 4 years? When has a president ever gone around calling the speaker of the house, the person 3rd in line to the presidency, a nickname like "Crazy Nancy"? Or said about his political opponent "the worst candidate in the history of the country"? Or the fact that the senate went back on their word 4 years ago, and went ahead and put another justice on the court less than 2 weeks before an election? Or stacked the courts at all levels with their judges, after refusing to act on Obama's nominees? We have to live with those actions going forward for a long time.

The republicans need to pay a price for their enabling of Donald Trump. They had the opportunity to rein him in, and put a brake on some of his worst tendencies. And aside from Mitt Romney, most of them failed to do so, and instead supported and encouraged him, at the cost of all the damage to the fabric of our society, the damage to our alliances across the globe, that Trumpism has brought about.

If there is healing to be done, it has to be the GOP that extends the olive branch first, and issues some kind of mea culpa over the last 4 years and what went on. And I don't see that happening.

[nitetrain8603]

There is a lot of talk about the need to "heal" right now. But are democrats supposed to just forget about all the insults and injustices they had to suffer at the hands of Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell the past 4 years? When has a president ever gone around calling the speaker of the house, the person 3rd in line to the presidency, a nickname like "Crazy Nancy"? Or said about his political opponent "the worst candidate in the history of the country"? Or the fact that the senate went back on their word 4 years ago, and went ahead and put another justice on the court less than 2 weeks before an election? Or stacked the courts at all levels with their judges, after refusing to act on Obama's nominees? We have to live with those actions going forward for a long time.

The republicans need to pay a price for their enabling of Donald Trump. They had the opportunity to rein him in, and put a brake on some of his worst tendencies. And aside from Mitt Romney, most of them failed to do so, and instead supported and encouraged him, at the cost of all the damage to the fabric of our society, the damage to our alliances across the globe, that Trumpism has brought about.

If there is healing to be done, it has to be the GOP that extends the olive branch first, and issues some kind of mea culpa over the last 4 years and what went on. And I don't see that happening.

I get it, but, I don't care. I care about this country being ran without any agendas other than making this country the best it can be. It sounds cliche and all, but I'm done with the whole, let's piss off the other side, let's retaliate, etc. It's gang mentality in politics.

I don't know how Joe will preside, but let's make informed decisions which will help the health of the nation (figuratively and literally).

[jc23]

Well all those celebrities can finally move back to the states now.

[nitetrain8603]

Biden’s speech tonight didn’t mention Trump at all. This is what I was taking about. Biden is playing this perfectly so far. He’s talking about unity, working together and America as a whole. Don’t feed the trolls.

Yeah sure they want unity after the democrats played dirty attacking trump for 4 years and constantly trying to throw him out the whole time over false accusations.Now that they are close to winning or better yet taking the election now they want “unity”. They only want it if they are in power lol.

Please that whole speech was bs. Biden didn’t say he was the president elect but he talked like he was already the president. As of last night it wasn’t even official yet. What a pointless speech.

Admittedly, the Dems didn’t give Trump a chance from the jump. You got it there. The problem is, Republicans don’t like him either. But they know they can use his base to push their own personal agendas. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that all republicans love Trump because that’s just not the case. He just had utility to them.

Think about it. The GOP has a good chance to maintain control of the Senate all while picking up seats in the house. Yet Trump is getting ready to lose this election. What does that tell you?? What it should tell you is that many republicans supported other republicans candidates without necessarily supporting Trump. So no, this isn’t just about Dems. It’s about lots of people at large not supporting or approving of the job that Trump has done.

And so far as the mail in ballots, EVERYONE that paid any kind of attention knew that mail in ballots were going to be much more prevalent this election cycle the perhaps any other. Because of the pandemic. The pandemic that Trump completely botched his handling of. He has nobody to blame but himself. Not the left or some bs conspiracy theories about voter fraud. Even his own advisers are calling bs on that theory and are shying away from it. If Biden takes this thing (and it certainly looks like he will) it will be every bit as legitimate as Trump taking it in 2016. I didn’t see Clinton challenging those results.....

Republicans understood using Trump who didn't seemingly know any better. This is the guy behind art of the deal. And the Republicans and Trumps sure made a lot of deals. Remember how this guy wanted to "Drain the swamp". That pissed off a lot of people. Republics knew they had to work with this guy, and they did. Dems hated the way he attacked Clinton, hated that he was Red party, and hated the way he constantly attacked Obama and Dems in general."

Dems never were going to give him a chance, they never did.

[moorhosj]

There is a lot of talk about the need to "heal" right now. But are democrats supposed to just forget about all the insults and injustices they had to suffer at the hands of Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell the past 4 years? When has a president ever gone around calling the speaker of the house, the person 3rd in line to the presidency, a nickname like "Crazy Nancy"? Or said about his political opponent "the worst candidate in the history of the country"? Or the fact that the senate went back on their word 4 years ago, and went ahead and put another justice on the court less than 2 weeks before an election? Or stacked the courts at all levels with their judges, after refusing to act on Obama's nominees? We have to live with those actions going forward for a long time.

The republicans need to pay a price for their enabling of Donald Trump. They had the opportunity to rein him in, and put a brake on some of his worst tendencies. And aside from Mitt Romney, most of them failed to do so, and instead supported and encouraged him, at the cost of all the damage to the fabric of our society, the damage to our alliances across the globe, that Trumpism has brought about.

If there is healing to be done, it has to be the GOP that extends the olive branch first, and issues some kind of mea culpa over the last 4 years and what went on. And I don't see that happening.

Couldn't agree more. The GOP is at it's most popular when fighting a Dem President who wants big policies. They ran against the ACA for an entire decade without ever providing a real alternative. McConnell will dig in, little will get done, and the big problems in our country will worsen (inequality, climate, debt, division, etc.).

[DuckIII]

Biden’s speech tonight didn’t mention Trump at all. This is what I was taking about. Biden is playing this perfectly so far. He’s talking about unity, working together and America as a whole. Don’t feed the trolls.

Yeah sure they want unity after the democrats played dirty attacking trump for 4 years and constantly trying to throw him out the whole time over false accusations.Now that they are close to winning or better yet taking the election now they want “unity”. They only want it if they are in power lol.

Please that whole speech was bs. Biden didn’t say he was the president elect but he talked like he was already the president. As of last night it wasn’t even official yet. What a pointless speech.

You are the type ZOMG said makes it pointless for Biden to project dignity, grace and unity. And he’s right, specifically as to your ilk. But Biden wasn’t talking to Trump sycophants. He was talking to conservatives who quietly went along with Trump for what they perceived to be the good of the party. Which is tens of millions of Americans. And that is why you and ZOMG are both wrong albeit for completely different reasons.

[Leslie Forman]

"Healing the country" and "uniting people" my ass. All the past Republican administrations since Eisenhower should have ended up with a bunch of people in prison. Some of them are literal war criminals.

If you don't ever make them pay for their criminal actions, you are enabling them. And that is what the democrats will do again, and it's a big part of why they will keep being seen as feckless and ineffectual, and it's why we're going to get another criminal ass fascist Republican president in another four or eight years.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

Yeah sure they want unity after the democrats played dirty attacking trump for 4 years and constantly trying to throw him out the whole time over false accusations.Now that they are close to winning or better yet taking the election now they want “unity”. They only want it if they are in power lol.

Please that whole speech was bs. Biden didn’t say he was the president elect but he talked like he was already the president. As of last night it wasn’t even official yet. What a pointless speech.

Admittedly, the Dems didn’t give Trump a chance from the jump. You got it there. The problem is, Republicans don’t like him either. But they know they can use his base to push their own personal agendas. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that all republicans love Trump because that’s just not the case. He just had utility to them.

Think about it. The GOP has a good chance to maintain control of the Senate all while picking up seats in the house. Yet Trump is getting ready to lose this election. What does that tell you?? What it should tell you is that many republicans supported other republicans candidates without necessarily supporting Trump. So no, this isn’t just about Dems. It’s about lots of people at large not supporting or approving of the job that Trump has done.

And so far as the mail in ballots, EVERYONE that paid any kind of attention knew that mail in ballots were going to be much more prevalent this election cycle the perhaps any other. Because of the pandemic. The pandemic that Trump completely botched his handling of. He has nobody to blame but himself. Not the left or some bs conspiracy theories about voter fraud. Even his own advisers are calling bs on that theory and are shying away from it. If Biden takes this thing (and it certainly looks like he will) it will be every bit as legitimate as Trump taking it in 2016. I didn’t see Clinton challenging those results.....

Republicans understood using Trump who didn't seemingly know any better. This is the guy behind art of the deal. And the Republicans and Trumps sure made a lot of deals. Remember how this guy wanted to "Drain the swamp". That pissed off a lot of people. Republics knew they had to work with this guy, and they did. Dems hated the way he attacked Clinton, hated that he was Red party, and hated the way he constantly attacked Obama and Dems in general."

Dems never were going to give him a chance, they never did.

do you really think those are the reasons people found trump objectionable?

look i appreciate the sentiment about wanting to shake up elite politics, but i think it was plainly obvious that trump was never going to do that, considering he is one of those aforementioned elites.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

"Healing the country" and "uniting people" my ass. All the past Republican administrations since Eisenhower should have ended up with a bunch of people in prison. Some of them are literal war criminals.

If you don't ever make them pay for their criminal actions, you are enabling them. And that is what the democrats will do again, and it's a big part of why they will keep being seen as feckless and ineffectual, and it's why we're going to get another criminal ass fascist Republican president in another four or eight years.

i mean obama bombed a bunch of weddings and cafes too. clinton was the first president to actually use NATO after it did basically nothing for 45 years during the cold war. watch how nothing about american foreign policy will change under biden, except more support for warmongering institutions like NATO.

point being, why would a bunch of war criminals send their own war criminals to prison? everyone knows the only war criminals are africans

[musiqsoulchild]

The base will follow the Trumps. Ivanka switched away from the democratic party in 2018. Her views are still democratic so if she can get the GOP nomination, well she would potentially be tough to beat on policy if the trump base rallies around her. She also seems a bit more intelligent than Don Jr and more professional. We'll see. It depends if the GOP has a good candidate. I think Nikki Haley has a chance, maybe Tucker will run though doubtful, or someone we aren't aware of.

I think moving forward we're going to see more attractive politicians run for office. Dems went with Biden because he was the most recognizable candidate. The boring old Romneys and Bushes could be a thing of the past. People need to connect with their leaders and that maybe more important than policies themselves.

Ivanka is going win the Republican primary on having Donald Trump's charisma, but Joe Biden's policy? I don't think so. What has she accomplished on policy in 4 years at the White House? What makes you think she can energize a stadium full of people in Erie, PA? Don Jr has a much better chance as he connects far more with "the base".

This whole idea of, "If Trump was more disciplined or stop going after certain people he would have won." Seems silly to me as his bluster and failure to respect norms is a large part of his appeal. From a policy perspective, Biden is better for working/middle class voters, Biden grew up working/middle class. Trump is able to harness their fear and anger in ways no other American politician has. To believe Ivanka or Don Jr will be able to do the same seems like wishful thinking.

Ivanka will be a President of fantasy.


Many people voted for Trump the first time because he represents things they will never accomplish in their own lives


Ivanka will be the same.

[Dresden]

"Healing the country" and "uniting people" my ass. All the past Republican administrations since Eisenhower should have ended up with a bunch of people in prison. Some of them are literal war criminals.

If you don't ever make them pay for their criminal actions, you are enabling them. And that is what the democrats will do again, and it's a big part of why they will keep being seen as feckless and ineffectual, and it's why we're going to get another criminal ass fascist Republican president in another four or eight years.

I agree. Obama was gracious in saying he wouldn't prosecute Bush or Cheney for the illegal actions, for the sake of unity. Maybe he was right, or maybe, as you say, he just looked the other way at some serious crimes (against humanity, actually, such as the normalization of torture) because he didn't want to use his political capital up on that task.

I never once heard Donald Trump talk about healing after he won. All we heard was locking up Hillary, making American great again, undoing all "the damage" Obama had done. But now they expect the democrats to be kind, understanding, forgiving.

The GOP can show how serious they are about reconciliation these next 3 months. Let's see if Trump graciously concedes defeat and urges his supporters to now support Joe Biden. Let's see if other republicans let Trump get away with all the mischief he undoubtedly is going to try to do in his last days as president. That will say a lot about how much they are willing to give.

[Dresden]

"Healing the country" and "uniting people" my ass. All the past Republican administrations since Eisenhower should have ended up with a bunch of people in prison. Some of them are literal war criminals.

If you don't ever make them pay for their criminal actions, you are enabling them. And that is what the democrats will do again, and it's a big part of why they will keep being seen as feckless and ineffectual, and it's why we're going to get another criminal ass fascist Republican president in another four or eight years.

i mean obama bombed a bunch of weddings and cafes too. clinton was the first president to actually use NATO after it did basically nothing for 45 years during the cold war. watch how nothing about american foreign policy will change under biden, except more support for warmongering institutions like NATO.

point being, why would a bunch of war criminals send their own war criminals to prison? everyone knows the only war criminals are africans

Bush/Cheney are responsible for the loss of 3,000+ American lives, and between 1-3 million Iraqi lives. That is on a whole other scale than what Obama's drone killings that occurred when they mistakenly targeted weddings/cafes, etc, which probably amounted to less than several hundred deaths.

You can't equate millions of lives lost to hundreds of lives lost.

As for foreign policy changing, you can bet your ass it will change. We won't be kissing Putin's ass anymore. We won't be withdrawing from any more international organizations like the WHO. We will try to re-enter the Iran Nuclear agreement. We will be re-engaging with our allies, instead of pissing them off. We will be re-joining the Paris Climate Accords. That's just a start.

[LateNight]

Putting your political rivals in prison is what they do in failed states. It’s not what we do in America

[SalmonsSuperfan]

"Healing the country" and "uniting people" my ass. All the past Republican administrations since Eisenhower should have ended up with a bunch of people in prison. Some of them are literal war criminals.

If you don't ever make them pay for their criminal actions, you are enabling them. And that is what the democrats will do again, and it's a big part of why they will keep being seen as feckless and ineffectual, and it's why we're going to get another criminal ass fascist Republican president in another four or eight years.

i mean obama bombed a bunch of weddings and cafes too. clinton was the first president to actually use NATO after it did basically nothing for 45 years during the cold war. watch how nothing about american foreign policy will change under biden, except more support for warmongering institutions like NATO.

point being, why would a bunch of war criminals send their own war criminals to prison? everyone knows the only war criminals are africans

Bush/Cheney are responsible for the loss of 3,000+ American lives, and between 1-3 million Iraqi lives. That is on a whole other scale than what Obama's drone killings that occurred when they mistakenly targeted weddings/cafes, etc, which probably amounted to less than several hundred deaths.

You can't equate millions of lives lost to hundreds of lives lost.

As for foreign policy changing, you can bet your ass it will change. We won't be kissing Putin's ass anymore. We won't be withdrawing from any more international organizations like the WHO. We will try to re-enter the Iran Nuclear agreement. We will be re-engaging with our allies, instead of pissing them off. We will be re-joining the Paris Climate Accords. That's just a start.

contradictory logic on display here. the dems are better because they meddle less in other countries' affairs, but then you're proud of the fact that biden is going to meddle more and reaffirm north american-western european (aka white) dominance of global affairs?

you misread my post anyway, but it's interesting to see that there's evidently a threshold for how many people it's OK for the us government to murder

[Ice Man]

I don't understand how MAGA supporters can be big NBA fans, because 1) Trump detests NBA players and 2) NBA players detest him. But to judge from this thread, there are a lot of people who fit that description.

[Ice Man]

On a different note -

Luke Broadwater, in Washington 13m ago

Senator Josh Hawley, Republican of Missouri, said the election wasn’t settled. “The media do not get to determine who the president is,” he said. “The people do.”

Funny, Josh, I don't recall you saying that in 2016. In fact, I don't recall a single person in the United States of America saying that.

[Leslie Forman]

there's evidently a threshold for how many people it's OK for the us government to murder

Yes, there is. Always has been. There's levels to this.

I'm not gonna defend useless Democrats, but they are like a benign cyst. You don't like it, you may want to get rid of it, but it ain't actively killing millions of people.

Republicans are straight up 50-foot long parasitic tapeworms eating you from your insides, gradually killing you while you keep telling yourself it's fine and will go away soon.

[Dresden]

Putting your political rivals in prison is what they do in failed states. It’s not what we do in America

NOT putting people in prison when they commit crimes is also what failed states do. It's basically saying to whoever is in power- "do whatever you want, you'll never be held accountable".

[MrSparkle]

If/when Biden takes office, I would really like for Pelosi to offer to step down sooner from her Speaker role. I believe I read she agreed to step down in 2022, which I suppose would align with mid-terms. We’ll see, but the Dem. party would be in a good place if they find a good younger leader who doesn’t draw GOP rage.

I think that would be a bad move. Pelosi is tough, she's savvy, and she's done a good job of keeping her party united. And she's been fairly moderate. She resisted earlier attempts to impeach Trump, until it became obvious he had done something that warranted impeachment. If the reason she were asked to move aside was because the GOP doesn't like her, that would just be allowing the GOP to dictate who leads the democrats in the House. Will the GOP remove McConnell because he draws democrats' wrath?

Democrats too often look to appease, to be moderate. Whereas the GOP goes for the throat any chance they get (see the Coney confirmation for an example).

I think Pelosi has been good/tough for Democrats, and I don’t personally dislike her, but my 2c is ‘appease’ with a fresh pick but don’t concede. There are pros to moving towards a younger and different direction for the Democrats anyway, and if I had to pick one beef with Pelosi, it is that she is way out of touch with middle America, while “representing” it. I do think she’s verging on Hilary territory, and you’d get a boost in the midwest to be honest. MI, PA, WI went blue but they need to keep working to appease these states cause these were nail-biters. I think MO and IA are a lost cause, but we’ll see. Maybe I’ve drunk too much Yang kool-aid, but he makes a lot of sense to me. Trumpism is gonna continue under a new name; there’s a big problem with rural everywhere.

Maybe I’m wrong about Pelosi. Maybe CA and west coast Dems love her. I really don’t know what to think about AZ and NV, but I’m nervous about counting on them in the next elections. And yeah I’m thinking about 22 mid-terms, cause Biden’s inheriting a mess. Pelosi and Kamala are gonna get 24/7 fire from Fox despite being moderate. AOC and Omar would get crucified. Yang, Buttigieg, this type of younger progressive-but-modern-moderates kind of seem like they might be able to strike a chord? I don’t know who that is in the House, but they need to find that person.

With Kentucky Fried Turkey in power, Biden couldn’t even get a progressive cabinet if he wanted to.

[TheStig]

I think it's almost a lock one of their kids make a run. Don Trump Jr or Ivanka. Fortunately they are much more tolerable to deal with than Donald Trump. Trump has gained so much support. Bush Jr ran and won without having anywhere near the support Trump has.

Isn't Ivanka more of a democrat? And I don't see Don Jr winning anything. And that's after Trump being the one who doesn't let things go. I think he'll be there again. Just like Trump, Biden is going to sit there and undo everything his predecessor has done. And that's going to drive him crazy.

The base will follow the Trumps. Ivanka switched away from the democratic party in 2018. Her views are still democratic so if she can get the GOP nomination, well she would potentially be tough to beat on policy if the trump base rallies around her. She also seems a bit more intelligent than Don Jr and more professional. We'll see. It depends if the GOP has a good candidate. I think Nikki Haley has a chance, maybe Tucker will run though doubtful, or someone we aren't aware of.

I think moving forward we're going to see more attractive politicians run for office. Dems went with Biden because he was the most recognizable candidate. The boring old Romneys and Bushes could be a thing of the past. People need to connect with their leaders and that maybe more important than policies themselves.

I don't think they'll embrace Invanka unless she does a big swing to GOP issues. Don Jr is just a dope. He's not going to make it. I think Trump will be back. He's always for publicity. Particularly if Biden runs again. I don't think anyone is really excited for Haley. Tucker would be their best get.

Well I mean it's hard to get worse than Biden vs Trump. That's not saying much. And my money still on a rematch in 2024.