OT Election Thread

[MrFortune3]

There is a lot of talk about the need to "heal" right now. But are democrats supposed to just forget about all the insults and injustices they had to suffer at the hands of Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell the past 4 years? When has a president ever gone around calling the speaker of the house, the person 3rd in line to the presidency, a nickname like "Crazy Nancy"? Or said about his political opponent "the worst candidate in the history of the country"? Or the fact that the senate went back on their word 4 years ago, and went ahead and put another justice on the court less than 2 weeks before an election? Or stacked the courts at all levels with their judges, after refusing to act on Obama's nominees? We have to live with those actions going forward for a long time.

The republicans need to pay a price for their enabling of Donald Trump. They had the opportunity to rein him in, and put a brake on some of his worst tendencies. And aside from Mitt Romney, most of them failed to do so, and instead supported and encouraged him, at the cost of all the damage to the fabric of our society, the damage to our alliances across the globe, that Trumpism has brought about.

If there is healing to be done, it has to be the GOP that extends the olive branch first, and issues some kind of mea culpa over the last 4 years and what went on. And I don't see that happening.

Dems have to take the high road. It will serve no purpose to try and get some "get back" on the GOP. It will do more harm than good when election time rolls around in 4 years.
They will end up alienating voters in a similar way to how Trump's administration has. Heal the nation, make it less divided and stay on message.

The GOP did everything they could to divide the country, yet they still held the senate, picked up seats in the house, and lost the White House by less than 100K votes. They aren't afraid to step on someone when they're down. They rammed Amy Coney's nomination down the nation's throat even when a majority thought it wasn't right. Lindsay Graham was still re-elected easily. So was Mitch McConnell.

If the GOP wants to mend fences, let's see them agree to expand the court or agree to term limits for the court, or remove Coney and let Biden pick his own nominee. That would show they are willing to "take the high road", too.

What has happened in the last 4 years helped Biden win. If you go on a revenge tour and make the GOP kiss the ring or bend the knee, you will be undermined at every important channel.
Biden is a deal maker who works to push through partisanship. His administration needs to take the high road and be above reproach.

This new administration has to set the tone for the next 8 years, not just 4. I don't say that to mean they will win re-election. I say that to me that in addition to handling things the right way now, you have to set up the next election, if he doesn't run for re-election and it's a new candidate or Harris takes her turn.
Being bitter and gaining revenge will play right into the GOP's hands "See, they talked about unity, trust, healing and all they really wanted was to try to punish anyone who supported President Trump".

[TheStig]

The base will follow the Trumps. Ivanka switched away from the democratic party in 2018. Her views are still democratic so if she can get the GOP nomination, well she would potentially be tough to beat on policy if the trump base rallies around her. She also seems a bit more intelligent than Don Jr and more professional. We'll see. It depends if the GOP has a good candidate. I think Nikki Haley has a chance, maybe Tucker will run though doubtful, or someone we aren't aware of.

I think moving forward we're going to see more attractive politicians run for office. Dems went with Biden because he was the most recognizable candidate. The boring old Romneys and Bushes could be a thing of the past. People need to connect with their leaders and that maybe more important than policies themselves.

I don't think they'll embrace Invanka unless she does a big swing to GOP issues. Don Jr is just a dope. He's not going to make it. I think Trump will be back. He's always for publicity. Particularly if Biden runs again. I don't think anyone is really excited for Haley. Tucker would be their best get.

Well I mean it's hard to get worse than Biden vs Trump. That's not saying much. And my money still on a rematch in 2024.

The only chance Trump or his spawn have of running in 2024 is the entire country tanking even worse than it has now.
Short of that, despite the vote count, his actions during this election will make it impossible to present him as a legitimate candidate during the next election. Especially with his party breaking from him and criticizing his actions to undermine the election results.

I mean he did it in 2016...... he did it in 2020...... nothing stopping him from doing it in 2024. The republicans were not behind him in 2016 and he still won.

[Michael Jackson]

I don't think they'll embrace Invanka unless she does a big swing to GOP issues. Don Jr is just a dope. He's not going to make it. I think Trump will be back. He's always for publicity. Particularly if Biden runs again. I don't think anyone is really excited for Haley. Tucker would be their best get.

Well I mean it's hard to get worse than Biden vs Trump. That's not saying much. And my money still on a rematch in 2024.

The only chance Trump or his spawn have of running in 2024 is the entire country tanking even worse than it has now.
Short of that, despite the vote count, his actions during this election will make it impossible to present him as a legitimate candidate during the next election. Especially with his party breaking from him and criticizing his actions to undermine the election results.

I mean he did it in 2016...... he did it in 2020...... nothing stopping him from doing it in 2024. The republicans were not behind him in 2016 and he still won.

Indeed Trump could run again, but his spawn will not have the same pull that he does. No one gave Jeffery Jordan a scholarship he was a walk on. Depending on the next 4 years though Trump could easily try to run again and as you said the GOP has never been behind him.

[MrFortune3]

I don't think they'll embrace Invanka unless she does a big swing to GOP issues. Don Jr is just a dope. He's not going to make it. I think Trump will be back. He's always for publicity. Particularly if Biden runs again. I don't think anyone is really excited for Haley. Tucker would be their best get.

Well I mean it's hard to get worse than Biden vs Trump. That's not saying much. And my money still on a rematch in 2024.

The only chance Trump or his spawn have of running in 2024 is the entire country tanking even worse than it has now.
Short of that, despite the vote count, his actions during this election will make it impossible to present him as a legitimate candidate during the next election. Especially with his party breaking from him and criticizing his actions to undermine the election results.

I mean he did it in 2016...... he did it in 2020...... nothing stopping him from doing it in 2024. The republicans were not behind him in 2016 and he still won.

His own words will be his nail in the coffin. He said Joe Biden was the worse candidate in history. He said he won in a landslide in 2016.
Joe Biden beat him with the exact same amount of votes as his landslide victory in 2016 whilst being the worst candidate in history.
His own words state that he lost to the worst candidate in history.

More to the point, candidates who lose re-election bids, never factor in afterwards. The last president to lose re-election and then win the next election is Grover Cleveland and this is not 1892.

[TheStig]

We had competition, supply changes and trade just wasn't that pronounced. But this relocation argument is silly. They could easily pass a law putting Tarriffs on those that leave. We're still the biggest consumer market in the world. Do you think GM will offshore if they have a 30% tarriff on their car? They write the laws. Where there is a will, there is a way.

You could do things like this, they would probably have a lot of consequences you wouldn't think of that result in some negative outcomes. That said, I agree that there is something to be done here to try and corral corporations that make most of their profits here and tax them appropriately. The main thing stopping this is simply that our government doesn't want to fund the country through corporate profits (certainly the Republicans don't, but I don't think the democrats are so excited about it either).

Let's be honest. Trump lost on Covid. If this election were last year, he'd have easily beaten Biden. The economy was doing well, unemployment was at record lows and he could actually campaign. Not to mention the dismal handling and lack of a second stimulus.

Maybe. It's hard for me to say, I don't think COVID hit his base hard at all. I think its just as likely he lost on racism and social unrest. It seems like he got absolutely massacred by the minority vote. Maybe a combination. While its neither here nor there really, he only beat Hilary due to the moronic electoral college which serves no real purpose except to make some peoples votes count more than others. He lost the popular vote by a healthy margin in 2016, and while he may have been able to win due to the same bad system again this year, he was going to lose the popular vote again regardless of the electoral college. Why we say that someone gets 20 votes from PA when the race is basically dead even makes no sense whatsoever.

But let's not act like Biden will get deals done. McConnell will block almost everything he wants to do. He'll have the senate. And guess what, Biden's camp has already talked about caving on their cabinet so they get appointed. Biden will be the least effective president in history. He's literally getting nothing done. And if he does get something it's going to be so watered down that it won't do much.

I don't really expect Biden to be great or anything, but the fact that he's a president that doesn't also control congress isn't some new thing nor does it really reflect on the president to me. I mean would you just vote for president based on making sure he matches congress so he can get more done even if you don't like what the other party is going to do? Maybe McConnell will block good legislation simply because he is Republican, who knows, but if you agree with Biden's legislation over Trumps, its still a better outcome.

That said, many people voted against Trump because he was Trump, and 4 years of absolutely no progress whatsoever is absolutely better than four years of supporting racism, increasing divide, and crafting policies to give more money to the wealthy. You may end up right on Biden's impact. I don't expect major strides with him in the white house either, but I'll sleep much sounder with him in the White House than Trump.

Well it's hard to be excited about taxing the rich and corporations when they are putting up super pacs, donating tons of money and bought and paid for you. You're never going to be able to do it until you remove money from politics. The lobbyists write our bills and corporations buy candidates. They work for them and pay off in spades. That being said, there is really no need for all of that. Back in the day, you had to have tv and print advertisement. Now with Twitter, Facebook and other social media, you don't really need that sort of capital. If you're ever going to have meaningful change, the first step will be removing the money from the system. When we talk about the gov being out of money, it's the corporations and rich not kicking in their share. You can't have the richest company ever not paying any federal income taxes like Amazon.

His base was his base. But there were many more new people pulled in because of Covid. Sure the social issues worsened under them but lets not pretend that they started in 2016 and will end in 2020. They've been there before and after Trump. And while they might settle a little at first with Biden, they will still bubble over in time. I think Covid drove the election and the economic divide that came as a fall out. We've seen 20 million more voters than 2016. I think it's been because they are in desperate time. I think if it were last year, Trump would have won. He didn't lose this race by a big margin. A strong economy and no poorly handled public health crisis would have carried him.

I lean toward Biden's legislation but my comment was more in terms of people saying change will come. He's not a guy to rock the boat, he's very moderate and he has no real plan or mandate. I think we should have someone with a real plan. Who could garner that mandate.

[TheStig]

The only chance Trump or his spawn have of running in 2024 is the entire country tanking even worse than it has now.
Short of that, despite the vote count, his actions during this election will make it impossible to present him as a legitimate candidate during the next election. Especially with his party breaking from him and criticizing his actions to undermine the election results.

I mean he did it in 2016...... he did it in 2020...... nothing stopping him from doing it in 2024. The republicans were not behind him in 2016 and he still won.

His own words will be his nail in the coffin. He said Joe Biden was the worse candidate in history. He said he won in a landslide in 2016.
Joe Biden beat him with the exact same amount of votes as his landslide victory in 2016 whilst being the worst candidate in history.
His own words state that he lost to the worst candidate in history.

More to the point, candidates who lose re-election bids, never factor in afterwards. The last president to lose re-election and then win the next election is Grover Cleveland and this is not 1892.

You think Trump cares about his own words?

[Almost Retired]

My call at 2:23 PM CST: TRUMP 327 BIDEN 211

Time to retire.

Sent from my SM-G986U1 using RealGM mobile app

21 months, 23 days. Or sooner if taxes go up significantly. Tax donkeys no more..

[Ice Man]

More to the point, candidates who lose re-election bids, never factor in afterwards.

Nixon kinda did, losing in 1960 as incumbent VP, then winning the Presidency in his 1968 comeback. Not the same thing, of course, but somewhat in that spirit. But ultimately the comparison fails because Nixon while running as a conventional politician while Trump lost while running as the leader of a personality movement. Trump is like no other President, so history isn't a very useful guide.

[Ice Man]

I think we should have someone with a real plan. Who could garner that mandate.

For the foreseeable future, no President will be able pass major legislation with a divided Congress. Anybody who crosses party lines to vote with the opposition will be primaried and will lose. Somehow, tensions between blue and red will need to calm down enough such that peacemakers won't be eaten alive by their own party's voters.

And while it's fashionable for voters to blame politicians and act as if they are innocent, that would be false here. The voters are the problem. The voters create the barriers and punish those who dare to transgress them. The voters have nobody to blame but themselves. That means you, American public. That means you.

[bulls_troy]

Bye Trump. Moron

[TheStig]

More to the point, candidates who lose re-election bids, never factor in afterwards.

Nixon kinda did, losing in 1960 as incumbent VP, then winning the Presidency in his 1968 comeback. Not the same thing, of course, but somewhat in that spirit. But ultimately the comparison fails because Nixon while running as a conventional politician while Trump lost while running as the leader of a personality movement. Trump is like no other President, so history isn't a very useful guide.

It's also worth noting we are speaking about ancient history here. In the last 24 years, all incumbents outside of Trump have won reelection. So this is not like something unknown. Biden himself has run for president 3 times. The first two times he didn't even get a delegate. Now he's president.

[TheStig]

I think we should have someone with a real plan. Who could garner that mandate.

For the foreseeable future, no President will be able pass major legislation with a divided Congress. Anybody who crosses party lines to vote with the opposition will be primaried and will lose. Somehow, tensions between blue and red will need to calm down enough such that peacemakers won't be eaten alive by their own party's voters.

And while it's fashionable for voters to blame politicians and act as if they are innocent, that would be false here. The voters are the problem. The voters create the barriers and punish those who dare to transgress them. The voters have nobody to blame but themselves. That means you, American public. That means you.

Typically strong candidates like Obama and Trump garner down ballot support. They might lose it in the mid terms like both did. But they both garnered enough support to carry down ballot and carry out their mandate. That's how we got Obamacare and the Trump tax cut. There was no grand bargin.

[MrSparkle]

In regards to 2024... yes yes, I know it’s early, but it’s a Bulls board (where we talk about next year’s draft before this one’s happened)...

I have a hunch the GOP secures Texas in the polls next time with a Texan 2024 candidate. Not a VP, but a presidential nominee. If that state actually turns blue, the GOP is done for, so I expect they will go back to the drawing boards and think Texas. People have to understand that Texans didn’t like Trump, anybody from NYC — they were just GOP-lifers. And if that happens, they probably get AZ back in one move.

On that note, I also hope the Democrats and pollsters don’t ever predict Texas to lean blue again, until pigs fly and they actually officially call their electoral votes blue. That was an unnecessary dose of optimism going into last Tuesday.

[Ice Man]

That's how we got Obamacare and the Trump tax cut.

Obamacare received only Democratic votes, and the Trump tax cut only Republican votes. The last time that the U.S. passed major bipartisan legislation, except for emergency recession relief, was when W got his tax cut in 2001 and his war in 2003.

[ZOMG]

I think we should have someone with a real plan. Who could garner that mandate.

For the foreseeable future, no President will be able pass major legislation with a divided Congress. Anybody who crosses party lines to vote with the opposition will be primaried and will lose. Somehow, tensions between blue and red will need to calm down enough such that peacemakers won't be eaten alive by their own party's voters.

And while it's fashionable for voters to blame politicians and act as if they are innocent, that would be false here. The voters are the problem. The voters create the barriers and punish those who dare to transgress them. The voters have nobody to blame but themselves. That means you, American public. That means you.

Calm down? The polarization of congress has literally been worsening non-stop for decades now. This is the most important trend of American politics in the last 50 years, and it's almost impossible to reverse - particularly in the current climate and with the toxic combination of social media and the rapid fire news cycle. The last 10 years have really been the nail in the coffin of cross-party co-operation.

This is one of the MAJOR drawbacks of a two party system.

[MrSparkle]

Meanwhile the crazies and many GOP along with lame-duck POTUS continue insisting this is going to the Supreme Court.

So hold your horses for the pseudo Civil War.

[dice]

In regards to 2024... yes yes, I know it’s early, but it’s a Bulls board (where we talk about next year’s draft before this one’s happened)...

I have a hunch the GOP secures Texas in the polls next time with a Texan 2024 candidate. Not a VP, but a presidential nominee. If that state actually turns blue, the GOP is done for, so I expect they will go back to the drawing boards and think Texas. People have to understand that Texans didn’t like Trump, anybody from NYC — they were just GOP-lifers. And if that happens, they probably get AZ back in one move.

On that note, I also hope the Democrats and pollsters don’t ever predict Texas to lean blue again, until pigs fly and they actually officially call their electoral votes blue. That was an unnecessary dose of optimism going into last Tuesday.

biden's chances heading into election (along with projected final result) according to polling guru nate silver:

88% NV (biden +3)
84% PA (biden +1)
69% FL (trump +3)
68% AZ (biden +1)
64% NC (trump +1)
58% GA (biden +0)

45% OH (trump +6)
40% IA (trump +7)
38% TX (trump +6)

texas wasn't leaning blue, but the final margin (along with the other two trump leaning states plus florida) is certainly surprising. fortunately trump's surprising success amongst hispanics in FL and TX did not carry nationwide

[dice]

in a game i wouldn't ordinarily care about, for some reason i find myself wanting the bulldogs to beat the gators...

[dice]

Meanwhile the crazies and many GOP along with lame-duck POTUS continue insisting this is going to the Supreme Court.

So hold your horses for the pseudo Civil War.

you can find split screen video of trump supporters in one state chanting "stop. the. count!" and in another chanting "keep counting!"

[dice]

All those already exist within the 2 party system. If they were separate parties they'd just form voting blocks and it would look a lot like what we have now.

I think the progressives are going to push Biden. And they should. They're advocating for the people who put them in power. That's their job. To me, they seem like the most honest of the bunch. They want to help the most people and don't sell out. Their ideas are also not really radical. It's more like America was 70+ years ago. Believe it or not, we were a country with almost free colleges and 90% top tax rates. It had companies reinvest, pay their fair share and resulted in little to no national debt. Now we have these corporations eating the country alive and not putting anything into it. We can't even fix the infrastructure now. At that time we built all of it!

It's not to say I agree with them on everything or feel they need to go as far like the green new deal. But to call them the radical left like they're trying to destroy the country or turn it communist is crazy.

Wall street is excited because we're going into gridlock and have Biden. It means they expect nothing done and that will be his legacy.

We had no competition then is the difference from 70+ years ago. Where are people going to go then? Now people can easily relocate offshore to offset taxes and that's already what many of the businesses are doing.

I agree on Wall Street. Biden went to them and set deals. They're expect essentially status quo. Maybe some reforms they don't affect them, some improvements with infrastructure, energy, healthcare but beyond that they were likely guaranteed that not much will change. The top 1% own this country along with media, silicon valley and hollywood.

That's why people liked Trump. He stood up against him. However he got too aggressive, didn't adjust, kept attacking people, refused to work with congress and that cost him the election.

We had competition, supply changes and trade just wasn't that pronounced. But this relocation argument is silly. They could easily pass a law putting Tarriffs on those that leave. We're still the biggest consumer market in the world. Do you think GM will offshore if they have a 30% tarriff on their car? They write the laws. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Let's be honest. Trump lost on Covid. If this election were last year, he'd have easily beaten Biden. The economy was doing well, unemployment was at record lows and he could actually campaign. Not to mention the dismal handling and lack of a second stimulus.

But let's not act like Biden will get deals done. McConnell will block almost everything he wants to do. He'll have the senate. And guess what, Biden's camp has already talked about caving on their cabinet so they get appointed. Biden will be the least effective president in history. He's literally getting nothing done. And if he does get something it's going to be so watered down that it won't do much.

amazingly, trump's job approval is approximately the same as it was pre-pandemic (and pretty much his entire presidency)

you do have to be a historically bad president to lose re-election to joe biden, though. and by 5 points? yikes

trump will go down as the first president in US history to lose the popular vote twice. and neither was a squeaker