General Blue Jays Thread

[Schad]

Solid value. His control was completely AWOL last year (as opposed to merely shaky in years past) but in the four preceding seasons he was the very definition of a mid-rotation starter.

[polo007]

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[polo007]

The Blue Jays have what it takes to trade for Francisco Lindor. But there’s a limit | The Star

According to USA Today’s Bob Nightengale, the Indians began informing teams about Lindor’s availability this past week. The Jays were one of four potential landing spots mentioned alongside the New York Mets, New York Yankees and Los Angeles Angels. Other teams will be added in the coming weeks, with negotiations expected to stretch deep into the off-season.

The dilemma isn’t whether the Jays should take a run at Lindor. Obviously, they should. He’s coming off a down season, but he is a franchise-altering player who has two Gold Gloves, a pair of Silver Sluggers and three top-10 finishes in MVP voting on his resumé. He’s one of the most exciting infielders in the game and the only reason he’ll be traded is money.

Toronto has the prospect capital to make a deal happen and should have the money, too. Lindor is projected to earn upwards of $22 million (U.S.) in his final year of arbitration, a figure the Jays could absorb with a payroll that currently sits at $75 million to $80 million, including non-guaranteed contracts and left-hander Robbie Ray’s new one-year deal worth $8 million. For context, the 2020 payroll hovered around $112 million, including $14 million owed to Troy Tulowitzki.

But just because the Jays can afford Lindor doesn’t mean they should empty their wallets to make it happen.

This will have to be a pursuit with limits, and if it leads to a second-place finish so be it. The goal should be trying to take advantage of a depressed market to acquire a star player at a reasonable cost. What the Jays can’t afford to do is mortgage too much of the future when there are still other areas that need to be addressed.

There are two scenarios at play here: a team makes an offer without any guarantees that Lindor — 27 next Saturday — will stick around long term, or a club reaches a verbal agreement with Cleveland and is granted permission to work out a long-term contract before the trade is finalized. The first option will be expensive, the second will cost even more.

The Jays shouldn’t be prepared to give up a whole lot for one year of Lindor. If Cleveland could be swayed by a package that includes prospects such as Alek Manoah, Orelvis Martinez, Gabriel Moreno, Anthony Kay, Thomas Hatch or Ryan Borucki — and maybe, just maybe, Jordan Groshans — then by all means have at it. The signature guys, though? No thanks, and that’s probably what it would take.

The conversation is different if there’s a sense Lindor is open to a long-term deal Toronto deems acceptable. Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette and Nate Pearson would still be off limits. Top prospects Austin Martin, Simeon Woods Richardson and Alejandro Kirk should be, too.

The rest? That’s up for debate. The Jays would have to think long and hard before moving someone like Cavan Biggio, but depending on the package he’s not someone who should be immediately ruled out. Lourdes Gurriel Jr. could be used as a chip, Jordan Romano too, and Groshans would be a lock to enter the conversation.

The framework is a complete guessing game until proposals are exchanged, which could happen as early as Monday’s virtual meetings among general managers. More realistically, talks won’t become serious for another month as teams prefer to get a feel for the free-agent market before diving too deep into trades.

[polo007]

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[Kris_Banks]

Good to see Ray is more than just a rental. Hopefully, Villar and Walker will follow.

Link https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-blue-jays-sign-lhp-robbie-ray

[Metallikid]

The Blue Jays have what it takes to trade for Francisco Lindor. But there’s a limit | The Star

According to USA Today’s Bob Nightengale, the Indians began informing teams about Lindor’s availability this past week. The Jays were one of four potential landing spots mentioned alongside the New York Mets, New York Yankees and Los Angeles Angels. Other teams will be added in the coming weeks, with negotiations expected to stretch deep into the off-season.

The dilemma isn’t whether the Jays should take a run at Lindor. Obviously, they should. He’s coming off a down season, but he is a franchise-altering player who has two Gold Gloves, a pair of Silver Sluggers and three top-10 finishes in MVP voting on his resumé. He’s one of the most exciting infielders in the game and the only reason he’ll be traded is money.

Toronto has the prospect capital to make a deal happen and should have the money, too. Lindor is projected to earn upwards of $22 million (U.S.) in his final year of arbitration, a figure the Jays could absorb with a payroll that currently sits at $75 million to $80 million, including non-guaranteed contracts and left-hander Robbie Ray’s new one-year deal worth $8 million. For context, the 2020 payroll hovered around $112 million, including $14 million owed to Troy Tulowitzki.

But just because the Jays can afford Lindor doesn’t mean they should empty their wallets to make it happen.

This will have to be a pursuit with limits, and if it leads to a second-place finish so be it. The goal should be trying to take advantage of a depressed market to acquire a star player at a reasonable cost. What the Jays can’t afford to do is mortgage too much of the future when there are still other areas that need to be addressed.

There are two scenarios at play here: a team makes an offer without any guarantees that Lindor — 27 next Saturday — will stick around long term, or a club reaches a verbal agreement with Cleveland and is granted permission to work out a long-term contract before the trade is finalized. The first option will be expensive, the second will cost even more.

The Jays shouldn’t be prepared to give up a whole lot for one year of Lindor. If Cleveland could be swayed by a package that includes prospects such as Alek Manoah, Orelvis Martinez, Gabriel Moreno, Anthony Kay, Thomas Hatch or Ryan Borucki — and maybe, just maybe, Jordan Groshans — then by all means have at it. The signature guys, though? No thanks, and that’s probably what it would take.

The conversation is different if there’s a sense Lindor is open to a long-term deal Toronto deems acceptable. Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette and Nate Pearson would still be off limits. Top prospects Austin Martin, Simeon Woods Richardson and Alejandro Kirk should be, too.

The rest? That’s up for debate. The Jays would have to think long and hard before moving someone like Cavan Biggio, but depending on the package he’s not someone who should be immediately ruled out. Lourdes Gurriel Jr. could be used as a chip, Jordan Romano too, and Groshans would be a lock to enter the conversation.

The framework is a complete guessing game until proposals are exchanged, which could happen as early as Monday’s virtual meetings among general managers. More realistically, talks won’t become serious for another month as teams prefer to get a feel for the free-agent market before diving too deep into trades.

I don't want to trade for Lindor and lose assets, I want us to turn wads of cash into new, better players. Pay DJ and Bauer, re-sign our good FA and go into next year looking to win 90+ games.

[Brinbe]

Hoping Robbie can turn around the control problems, but the upside is there. Insert him into the 3/4 spot

[vaff87]

Good to see Ray is more than just a rental. Hopefully, Villar and Walker will follow.

Link https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-blue-jays-sign-lhp-robbie-ray

Why do you want Villar to return? That guy was absolutely atrocious in his time with the jays.

[The_Hater]

The Blue Jays have what it takes to trade for Francisco Lindor. But there’s a limit | The Star

According to USA Today’s Bob Nightengale, the Indians began informing teams about Lindor’s availability this past week. The Jays were one of four potential landing spots mentioned alongside the New York Mets, New York Yankees and Los Angeles Angels. Other teams will be added in the coming weeks, with negotiations expected to stretch deep into the off-season.

The dilemma isn’t whether the Jays should take a run at Lindor. Obviously, they should. He’s coming off a down season, but he is a franchise-altering player who has two Gold Gloves, a pair of Silver Sluggers and three top-10 finishes in MVP voting on his resumé. He’s one of the most exciting infielders in the game and the only reason he’ll be traded is money.

Toronto has the prospect capital to make a deal happen and should have the money, too. Lindor is projected to earn upwards of $22 million (U.S.) in his final year of arbitration, a figure the Jays could absorb with a payroll that currently sits at $75 million to $80 million, including non-guaranteed contracts and left-hander Robbie Ray’s new one-year deal worth $8 million. For context, the 2020 payroll hovered around $112 million, including $14 million owed to Troy Tulowitzki.

But just because the Jays can afford Lindor doesn’t mean they should empty their wallets to make it happen.

This will have to be a pursuit with limits, and if it leads to a second-place finish so be it. The goal should be trying to take advantage of a depressed market to acquire a star player at a reasonable cost. What the Jays can’t afford to do is mortgage too much of the future when there are still other areas that need to be addressed.

There are two scenarios at play here: a team makes an offer without any guarantees that Lindor — 27 next Saturday — will stick around long term, or a club reaches a verbal agreement with Cleveland and is granted permission to work out a long-term contract before the trade is finalized. The first option will be expensive, the second will cost even more.

The Jays shouldn’t be prepared to give up a whole lot for one year of Lindor. If Cleveland could be swayed by a package that includes prospects such as Alek Manoah, Orelvis Martinez, Gabriel Moreno, Anthony Kay, Thomas Hatch or Ryan Borucki — and maybe, just maybe, Jordan Groshans — then by all means have at it. The signature guys, though? No thanks, and that’s probably what it would take.

The conversation is different if there’s a sense Lindor is open to a long-term deal Toronto deems acceptable. Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette and Nate Pearson would still be off limits. Top prospects Austin Martin, Simeon Woods Richardson and Alejandro Kirk should be, too.

The rest? That’s up for debate. The Jays would have to think long and hard before moving someone like Cavan Biggio, but depending on the package he’s not someone who should be immediately ruled out. Lourdes Gurriel Jr. could be used as a chip, Jordan Romano too, and Groshans would be a lock to enter the conversation.

The framework is a complete guessing game until proposals are exchanged, which could happen as early as Monday’s virtual meetings among general managers. More realistically, talks won’t become serious for another month as teams prefer to get a feel for the free-agent market before diving too deep into trades.

I don't want to trade for Lindor and lose assets, I want us to turn wads of cash into new, better players. Pay DJ and Bauer, re-sign our good FA and go into next year looking to win 90+ games.

Exactly what I was thinking the last couple of days. Sign DJ or even Springer, don’t trade for Lindor. The Indians are trading him in large part because they want a huge bounty in return.

[The_Hater]

Good to see Ray is more than just a rental. Hopefully, Villar and Walker will follow.

Link https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-blue-jays-sign-lhp-robbie-ray

Why do you want Villar to return? That guy was absolutely atrocious in his time with the jays.

I wouldn’t overvalue 79 plate appearances too much, this is the same guy who looked quite valuable in 700+ PA in 2019.

His versatility is a plus, he could come cheap and he has been decent most of his career. The projections all have him bouncing back nicely next season.

[dagger]

Exactly what I was thinking the last couple of days. Sign DJ or even Springer, don’t trade for Lindor. The Indians are trading him in large part because they want a huge bounty in return.[/quote]

Lindor is a star, no doubt, but the chemistry of putting together a championship contender is tough, and just plugging guys into spots isn't often enough. Look at SD, which had (indeed still has) a deep prospect pool, and went out and loaded up on free agents to make a hard run at the NL West. It came up a bit short, and could lose a couple of those vets, like Rosenthal. But even if they don't, they still have the Dodgers to surmount. They might do it, but the point is it will have taken them more than one free agency or deadline period to deploy its assets to assemble such a team.

I'd like to see the Jays land a multi-year asset or two in free agency or via salary-absorbing trades (where less veteran or prospect talent is outgoing) that still makes the team better in 2021 while waiting to add our prospect talent - a guy like Martin can't be that far away, he would likely have started at AA New Hampshire had there been a 2020 minor league season. Iv'e always looked to 2022 as the year when real contention begins, and still believe so.

[Brinbe]

Yep. We got quite a number of good depth prospects on the way. Another good reason to add some of real high-impact talent now. So they can build chemistry together as the team grows into contention age.

And we're at the point in our window where I think that guy/guys will already be in the major leagues. We just gotta identify who they are (that are realistically obtainable) and go get him/them.

[Schad]

I wouldn’t overvalue 79 plate appearances too much, this is the same guy who looked quite valuable in 700+ PA in 2019.

His versatility is a plus, he could come cheap and he has been decent most of his career. The projections all have him bouncing back nicely next season.

Villar's an extremely high-variance player: he's very talented, but he's also really, really dumb, and that combination has seen him swap shirts more than an Abercrombie and Fitch model. He could definitely be good value on a smaller, short-term contract that allows us to allocate further resources to the rotation. He could also be absolutely maddening. Honestly don't know which way I'd go.

[Brinbe]

if there's a real chance to get lindor, they need to do it and pay him all the money.

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when i was talking about real impact players in my previous post, that's the tier of player i was talking about. if we really wanna contend in this division, that's the kind of guy we need.

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lol called this too earlier. if we don't get lindor, could do a lot worse adding a glove like simmons to solidify the defense quite a bit.

[The_Hater]

if there's a real chance to get lindor, they need to do it and pay him all the money.

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when i was talking about real impact players in my previous post, that's the tier of player i was talking about. if we really wanna contend in this division, that's the kind of guy we need.

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lol called this too earlier. if we don't get lindor, could do a lot worse adding a glove like simmons to solidify the defense quite a bit.

If nothing else, these rumours seem to indicate that the Jays aren’t exactly sold on Bichette at SS going forward.

Having the left side of the IF being set for the next 10 years evaporated quickly.

[polo007]

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[Brinbe]

if there's a real chance to get lindor, they need to do it and pay him all the money.

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when i was talking about real impact players in my previous post, that's the tier of player i was talking about. if we really wanna contend in this division, that's the kind of guy we need.

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lol called this too earlier. if we don't get lindor, could do a lot worse adding a glove like simmons to solidify the defense quite a bit.

If nothing else, these rumours seem to indicate that the Jays aren’t exactly sold on Bichette at SS going forward.

Having the left side of the IF being set for the next 10 years evaporated quickly.

yeah, bichette's defensive performance in the playoffs prob opened some eyes that he's maybe better at 2b going forward. and we have a slew of much better defensive SS prospects coming up the pike in the coming years. which is good. never be satisfied. always keep looking to improve.

springer/bradley are another sign they're looking to strengthen up the middle of the diamond. i didn't think they'd be in for springer, but i'd be happy to be wrong.

[The_Hater]

if there's a real chance to get lindor, they need to do it and pay him all the money.

Read on Twitter

when i was talking about real impact players in my previous post, that's the tier of player i was talking about. if we really wanna contend in this division, that's the kind of guy we need.

Read on Twitter

lol called this too earlier. if we don't get lindor, could do a lot worse adding a glove like simmons to solidify the defense quite a bit.

If nothing else, these rumours seem to indicate that the Jays aren’t exactly sold on Bichette at SS going forward.

Having the left side of the IF being set for the next 10 years evaporated quickly.

yeah, bichette's defensive performance in the playoffs prob opened some eyes that he's maybe better at 2b going forward. and we have a slew of much better defensive SS prospects coming up the pike in the coming years. which is good. never be satisfied. always keep looking to improve.

springer/bradley are another sign they're looking to strengthen up the middle of the diamond. i didn't think they'd be in for springer, but i'd be happy to be wrong.

Glad to see they’re thinking this way too. Hard to build a winner with below average defense at CF, SS, 2B and 3B. Find a SS and a CF and then everyone else down one peg. Gotta think Biggio would be better at 3B as well.

[Schad]

I'd take JBJ at his MLBTR-suggested price (2 years, $16m) in a heartbeat. Guessing his bat recedes to past levels of performance, and you wouldn't want to go much longer on someone whose CF defense is their primary selling point, but that's good value.

Overall, I think this is a much better time to target free agents than to be trading for mega-stars. Money is going to be tight around MLB, but someone like Lindor has every incentive in the world to hit free agency after next season. You would be trading a king's ransom for the right to have exactly as much chance of his services after 2021 as any team.

[vaff87]

I'd take JBJ at his MLBTR-suggested price (2 years, $16m) in a heartbeat. Guessing his bat recedes to past levels of performance, and you wouldn't want to go much longer on someone whose CF defense is their primary selling point, but that's good value.

Overall, I think this is a much better time to target free agents than to be trading for mega-stars. Money is going to be tight around MLB, but someone like Lindor has every incentive in the world to hit free agency after next season. You would be trading a king's ransom for the right to have exactly as much chance of his services after 2021 as any team.

What if they only make the trade on the basis of agreeing to an extension first?

I agree about JBJ. I’ve been thinking about him as a potential option as a short term CF since the summer.