Trade Talk (Part Five)

[IceManBK1]

Meh Holiday is good defensively but not a super star and you cant afford to have both Holiday and Russell on a max (along with Towns) Adding Holiday alone won’t make the wolves a playoff team . He couldnt lead a team with ingram (and zion) or even with Anthony Davis in 2019 to the playoffs. Not giving the Pelicans a young and exciting core of Wiseman(or Edwards) /ingram/zion for the next five years for the wolves to overpay 31 year old Jrue Holiday and still miss the playoffs.

Holiday is a great offensive player and Oh Yeah. He's one of the best defensive players in the game also. Top 20 player and fully worthy of a max contract. Those are the value contracts in the NBA just as much as the rookie contracts. I'm be happy to underpay for Holiday. He's every bit as good as Jimmy Butler for example.

Usually, I strongly disagree with KGdaBom on many topics. But here, I would do mentioned trade in a heartbeat.

Jrue resigns for 120mil/4yrs deal, last year team option. We trade #1, JJ, Evans, Spellman for Jrue, #39

Jrue is an excellent fit next to DLo and KAT for many reasons:

* - he is an elite petemeter defender who can defend PG/SG/SF. He can defend PoA, he can act as team defender
* - he is a definition of comboguard who can score at three levels and involve teammates
* - he is a positive veteran presence in locker room, hard worker
* - he is a strong rebounder
* - he is a good slasher, and ballhandler unlike Beasley
* - he is an excellent fit in offense next to DLo and KAT. Russell and Towns are both elite scorers who can carry offensive load, they also are elite passers. They are not selfish, despite being elite scorers! They can create offense for others. I dont think that it was the case with NOP offense. Jrue might be ultra-efficient as 3rd option in offense and primary option in defense. Having DLo-KAT-Jrue triangle will make our offense more efficient, consistent

And finally. MIN for many years have not been able to assemble a decent roster with three stars. It is nearly impossible for a small market team. What was our best acquisition at SG? Kevin Martin? You don't think twice if such opportunity arises.

4 yr 80 mil.. No max

[_AIJ_]

Meh Holiday is good defensively but not a super star and you cant afford to have both Holiday and Russell on a max (along with Towns) Adding Holiday alone won’t make the wolves a playoff team . He couldnt lead a team with ingram (and zion) or even with Anthony Davis in 2019 to the playoffs. Not giving the Pelicans a young and exciting core of Wiseman(or Edwards) /ingram/zion for the next five years for the wolves to overpay 31 year old Jrue Holiday and still miss the playoffs.

Holiday is a great offensive player and Oh Yeah. He's one of the best defensive players in the game also. Top 20 player and fully worthy of a max contract. Those are the value contracts in the NBA just as much as the rookie contracts. I'm be happy to underpay for Holiday. He's every bit as good as Jimmy Butler for example.

Top 20?

Lebron, Giannis, kawhi, doncic, jokic, curry, kd, kyrie, beal, lillard, george, paul, wetbrook, harden, embiid, butler, klay, KAT, mitchell, murray, davis, lowry, booker, gobert, tatum. Theres probably more. I dont see him near top 20. Sorry


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[KGdaBom]

Holiday is a great offensive player and Oh Yeah. He's one of the best defensive players in the game also. Top 20 player and fully worthy of a max contract. Those are the value contracts in the NBA just as much as the rookie contracts. I'm be happy to underpay for Holiday. He's every bit as good as Jimmy Butler for example.

Usually, I strongly disagree with KGdaBom on many topics. But here, I would do mentioned trade in a heartbeat.

Jrue resigns for 120mil/4yrs deal, last year team option. We trade #1, JJ, Evans, Spellman for Jrue, #39

Jrue is an excellent fit next to DLo and KAT for many reasons:

* - he is an elite petemeter defender who can defend PG/SG/SF. He can defend PoA, he can act as team defender
* - he is a definition of comboguard who can score at three levels and involve teammates
* - he is a positive veteran presence in locker room, hard worker
* - he is a strong rebounder
* - he is a good slasher, and ballhandler unlike Beasley
* - he is an excellent fit in offense next to DLo and KAT. Russell and Towns are both elite scorers who can carry offensive load, they also are elite passers. They are not selfish, despite being elite scorers! They can create offense for others. I dont think that it was the case with NOP offense. Jrue might be ultra-efficient as 3rd option in offense and primary option in defense. Having DLo-KAT-Jrue triangle will make our offense more efficient, consistent

And finally. MIN for many years have not been able to assemble a decent roster with three stars. It is nearly impossible for a small market team. What was our best acquisition at SG? Kevin Martin? You don't think twice if such opportunity arises.

4 yr 80 mil.. No max

You guys are living in La La Land if you think we can get Jrue for $20 Million. He's a max player and a very good deal on a max contract.

[KGdaBom]

Meh Holiday is good defensively but not a super star and you cant afford to have both Holiday and Russell on a max (along with Towns) Adding Holiday alone won’t make the wolves a playoff team . He couldnt lead a team with ingram (and zion) or even with Anthony Davis in 2019 to the playoffs. Not giving the Pelicans a young and exciting core of Wiseman(or Edwards) /ingram/zion for the next five years for the wolves to overpay 31 year old Jrue Holiday and still miss the playoffs.

Holiday is a great offensive player and Oh Yeah. He's one of the best defensive players in the game also. Top 20 player and fully worthy of a max contract. Those are the value contracts in the NBA just as much as the rookie contracts. I'm be happy to underpay for Holiday. He's every bit as good as Jimmy Butler for example.

Top 20?

Lebron, Giannis, kawhi, doncic, jokic, curry, kd, kyrie, beal, lillard, george, paul, wetbrook, harden, embiid, butler, klay, KAT, mitchell, murray, davis, lowry, booker, gobert, tatum. Theres probably more. I dont see him near top 20. Sorry


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You have your right to be wrong. He's better than many of the players you listed.
I'm a very good fantasy basketball player and I would consider drafting Holiday any time after pick 10. And he's a better real basketball player than fantasy.

[Wolveswin]

I don’t want Holiday at expensive of #1. I much rather go after Murray from Spurs who is much younger (core fitting) and locked in on value deal (much cheaper than Holiday).

[KGdaBom]

I don’t want Holiday at expensive of #1. I much rather go after Murray from Spurs who is much younger (core fitting) and locked in on value deal (much cheaper than Holiday).

Holiday is a million times better than Murray. Murray is a good defender, but an offensive liability. I want Holiday, but ONLY if he can be extended first. I don't even know if we can extend him at this time or the Pels can in a sign and trade. He's currently making $26 million a year. So just to use nice round numbers how about 4 years $100 million.

[KGdaBom]

Heres an article from 2 days ago regarding the Wolves trading for Holiday.

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/11/06/how-the-minnesota-timberwolves-could-land-jrue-holiday/

[Wolveswin]

I don’t want Holiday at expensive of #1. I much rather go after Murray from Spurs who is much younger (core fitting) and locked in on value deal (much cheaper than Holiday).

Holiday is a million times better than Murray. Murray is a good defender, but an offensive liability. I want Holiday, but ONLY if he can be extended first. I don't even know if we can extend him at this time or the Pels can in a sign and trade. He's currently making $26 million a year. So just to use nice round numbers how about 4 years $100 million.

Well as you said above, you have the right to be wrong. Stats don’t agree with you, Holiday is not a million times better nor worth sacrificing #1 and paying him double Murray. Stats for Murray coming back from injury and Covid shortened season prove he is every bit of Holiday and not a offense liability as you say. Sorry.

Dejounte Murray Jrue Holiday
Field goal percentage 46.2% 45.5%
Two point percentage 48.1% 50.9%
Three point fg percentage 36.9% 35.3%
Free throw percentage 79.8% 70.9%
E field goal percentage 49.4% 51.6%
True shooting 52.4% 53.7%
Field goal attempts 18.1 22.8
Three point fg attempts 3.2 7.8
Free throw attempts 3.2 4.1

[Shaka_Zulu]

No way I trade the first pick for jrue Holiday straight up, must include 13 from Pelicans.

Do you realize how GOOD Holiday is? We just need to have him signed for a few years. If we can get 13 great, but I do it either way.

Maybe #1+JJ and filler for Holiday+Favors(sign and trade)+#13. It makes sense if we want to make the playoffs. Improve our defense at SG and PF positions. We can do sth creative with #13 and #17. maybe try to move back into top 10. Maybe #13+Culver for Deandre Hunter?
Dlo and Towns would be surrounded by some solid defenders.

This sounds too good to be true.

[Domejandro]

Complication aside, Jrue and #13 for Expirings and #1 is the dream, but I feel New Orleans declines.

[_AIJ_]

Holiday is a great offensive player and Oh Yeah. He's one of the best defensive players in the game also. Top 20 player and fully worthy of a max contract. Those are the value contracts in the NBA just as much as the rookie contracts. I'm be happy to underpay for Holiday. He's every bit as good as Jimmy Butler for example.

Top 20?

Lebron, Giannis, kawhi, doncic, jokic, curry, kd, kyrie, beal, lillard, george, paul, wetbrook, harden, embiid, butler, klay, KAT, mitchell, murray, davis, lowry, booker, gobert, tatum. Theres probably more. I dont see him near top 20. Sorry


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You have your right to be wrong. He's better than many of the players you listed.
I'm a very good fantasy basketball player and I would consider drafting Holiday any time after pick 10. And he's a better real basketball player than fantasy.

No disrespect but holy **** are you kidding me?


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[KGdaBom]

I don’t want Holiday at expensive of #1. I much rather go after Murray from Spurs who is much younger (core fitting) and locked in on value deal (much cheaper than Holiday).

Holiday is a million times better than Murray. Murray is a good defender, but an offensive liability. I want Holiday, but ONLY if he can be extended first. I don't even know if we can extend him at this time or the Pels can in a sign and trade. He's currently making $26 million a year. So just to use nice round numbers how about 4 years $100 million.

Well as you said above, you have the right to be wrong. Stats don’t agree with you, Holiday is not a million times better nor worth sacrificing #1 and paying him double Murray. Stats for Murray coming back from injury and Covid shortened season prove he is every bit of Holiday and not a offense liability as you say. Sorry.

Dejounte Murray Jrue Holiday
Field goal percentage 46.2% 45.5%
Two point percentage 48.1% 50.9%
Three point fg percentage 36.9% 35.3%
Free throw percentage 79.8% 70.9%
E field goal percentage 49.4% 51.6%
True shooting 52.4% 53.7%
Field goal attempts 18.1 22.8
Three point fg attempts 3.2 7.8
Free throw attempts 3.2 4.1

Jrue was shooting 8 3s a game to Murray's 3. Murray doesn't score enough. 11 points a game. He's not a threat. He's an offensive liability. Holiday 19 points a game. The stats do agree with me.

[KGdaBom]

Top 20?

Lebron, Giannis, kawhi, doncic, jokic, curry, kd, kyrie, beal, lillard, george, paul, wetbrook, harden, embiid, butler, klay, KAT, mitchell, murray, davis, lowry, booker, gobert, tatum. Theres probably more. I dont see him near top 20. Sorry


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You have your right to be wrong. He's better than many of the players you listed.
I'm a very good fantasy basketball player and I would consider drafting Holiday any time after pick 10. And he's a better real basketball player than fantasy.

No disrespect but holy **** are you kidding me?


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Not kidding at all. Holiday is a GREAT Player. I don't get where his being underrated on this board is coming from.

[KGdaBom]

Complication aside, Jrue and #13 for Expirings and #1 is the dream, but I feel New Orleans declines.

What's the deal with his contract. He's got this year and a player option next. Can he be extended now or not? I'm the big Holiday fan, but I'm 100% against the deal if we might only get him for a year.

[Wolveswin]

Holiday is a million times better than Murray. Murray is a good defender, but an offensive liability. I want Holiday, but ONLY if he can be extended first. I don't even know if we can extend him at this time or the Pels can in a sign and trade. He's currently making $26 million a year. So just to use nice round numbers how about 4 years $100 million.

Well as you said above, you have the right to be wrong. Stats don’t agree with you, Holiday is not a million times better nor worth sacrificing #1 and paying him double Murray. Stats for Murray coming back from injury and Covid shortened season prove he is every bit of Holiday and not a offense liability as you say. Sorry.

Dejounte Murray Jrue Holiday
Field goal percentage 46.2% 45.5%
Two point percentage 48.1% 50.9%
Three point fg percentage 36.9% 35.3%
Free throw percentage 79.8% 70.9%
E field goal percentage 49.4% 51.6%
True shooting 52.4% 53.7%
Field goal attempts 18.1 22.8
Three point fg attempts 3.2 7.8
Free throw attempts 3.2 4.1

Jrue was shooting 8 3s a game to Murray's 3. Murray doesn't score enough. 11 points a game. He's not a threat. He's an offensive liability. Holiday 19 points a game. The stats do agree with me.

Of course Holiday raw scoring stats are more. As are his usage stats. He is 30yo leader on his team.

If you think such simple stats tells the story Holiday is a million times better and worth #1 and double the money than Murray, I can’t help you.

[Baseline81]

Johnson and what other Minnesota player(s) would need to be included to match Holiday's salary of $26M?

[Chello1]

For discussion, here is the latest from NBASupes on Hawksquawk:

MIN has been aggressively trying to move down while over aggressively wanting to get the most for their buck. They have made it clear they want a future 2021 1st from a team they think will be a lottery team next year and yes, Atlanta is one of them. No one has bit. That may change. They really want in for 2021 but they want a high-quality pick. They are not willing to move back for GS own 2021 1st. The value of the 2021 1st round pick is seen as extremely high.

They are targeting teams they believe will be lottery teams. Ball seems to be the player they are targeting the most mainly due to trade value. There is a chance Ball could be the pick and he would not play a min in MIN.

NEW: This is probably the biggest deal on this list. This is hot off the presser. Jrue Holiday has become the target and there is a lot of interest from New Orleans and MIN. The only thing is Jrue must be willing to sign an extension as soon as he’s eligible which they (the NBA) are working on the date atm.

His extension could be nearing max range which will mean MIN has three max players under contract. The question is, does it make sense for MIN to have three max guys and still you have questions if this is a playoff team. There is a lot more to this potential deal than what I currently have so keep a look out for this deal.

This also highlights what I been hearing from NO of them looking for PG’s and seeing Lonzo Ball as a quick passing guard like Haliburton is getting seen as. Lonzo is Melo ying to Melo’s yang. This is big news.

I hope we do not do this! Buyers remorse almost immediately. Jrue is a great player! He makes us better immediately! But we are then stuck. Who else are you going to add to make a deep run? The big three we would have doesn't fit timeline wise for one and to be honest how long can Jrue stay at this level? He is 31 years old. I do not think this is a big three that gets us anywhere except possibly fighting for a 6-8 seed and first round exit for two years. Then Jrue starts sliding and we are screwed again. Only then Dlo and Kat want out..... Not what we want or need right now. If we are going to max three players and have zero room to add anyone else this isn't it.

[Chello1]

Top 20?

Lebron, Giannis, kawhi, doncic, jokic, curry, kd, kyrie, beal, lillard, george, paul, wetbrook, harden, embiid, butler, klay, KAT, mitchell, murray, davis, lowry, booker, gobert, tatum. Theres probably more. I dont see him near top 20. Sorry


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You have your right to be wrong. He's better than many of the players you listed.
I'm a very good fantasy basketball player and I would consider drafting Holiday any time after pick 10. And he's a better real basketball player than fantasy.

No disrespect but holy **** are you kidding me?


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He is not close to top twenty.... Lets get real here!

[Chello1]

Top 20?

Lebron, Giannis, kawhi, doncic, jokic, curry, kd, kyrie, beal, lillard, george, paul, wetbrook, harden, embiid, butler, klay, KAT, mitchell, murray, davis, lowry, booker, gobert, tatum. Theres probably more. I dont see him near top 20. Sorry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You have your right to be wrong. He's better than many of the players you listed.
I'm a very good fantasy basketball player and I would consider drafting Holiday any time after pick 10. And he's a better real basketball player than fantasy.

No disrespect but holy **** are you kidding me?


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He is not close to top twenty.... Lets get real here!

[Merc_Porto]

The timeline doesnt matter anymore?