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GONYK wrote:Food for thought...
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Maybe things aren't as simple as they seem?
Jimmit79 wrote:At this point I want RJ to get paid
K-DOT wrote:GONYK wrote:Food for thought...Spoiler:
Maybe things aren't as simple as they seem?
I think a lot of it comes down to messaging
When you take progressive concepts by themselves and don't give context to them, the country loves them. Universal healthcare has like a 70% approval rating when people aren't given a name, just the policy. Same reason why 15 an hour won overwhelmingly in Florida but Biden lost handily
A lot of the country don't see themselves as being "progressive," so when you say "this is a progressive position," their opinion of it changes. And the Republicans have done an amazing job over the years of convincing people that progressivism is terrible. So what the Dems (more specifically, progressives) need to do is find a way to break the people out of this mindset, which isn't an easy thing. The moderates are scared to endorse more progressive ideology because they're afraid they'll lose voters, but if we could normalize the ideas, it wouldn't lose them voters because people would no longer see them as "progressive" positions, but mainstream ones. Still left-leaning, but not as far left as they're portrayed now.
GONYK wrote:K-DOT wrote:GONYK wrote:Food for thought...Spoiler:
Maybe things aren't as simple as they seem?
I think a lot of it comes down to messaging
When you take progressive concepts by themselves and don't give context to them, the country loves them. Universal healthcare has like a 70% approval rating when people aren't given a name, just the policy. Same reason why 15 an hour won overwhelmingly in Florida but Biden lost handily
A lot of the country don't see themselves as being "progressive," so when you say "this is a progressive position," their opinion of it changes. And the Republicans have done an amazing job over the years of convincing people that progressivism is terrible. So what the Dems (more specifically, progressives) need to do is find a way to break the people out of this mindset, which isn't an easy thing. The moderates are scared to endorse more progressive ideology because they're afraid they'll lose voters, but if we could normalize the ideas, it wouldn't lose them voters because people would no longer see them as "progressive" positions, but mainstream ones. Still left-leaning, but not as far left as they're portrayed now.
I don't disagree. I'm just seeing in the debate on this board that some argue that running an AOC in every district is the answer. I don't think the data supports that.
To push progressive ideas forward, it will be a district by district, state by state effort. You're going to get a lot more Joe Bidens, who are shrouding progressive ideas in a centrist platform, than AOCs over the span of the country.
Like I posted yesterday, this is the battlefield progressives are working in:
Clyde_Style wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:
I'm not here to take a position on Stacey Abrams's apparent ambition for higher office but, that said, she did a great job in Georgia in getting out the vote. And for that she deserves credit.
We know she's ambitious, has Clinton pedigree, is not a leftist. But this jerk blows in here the day Biden won blowing smoke calling people hacks and dissing Pointgod like a cretin. Yes, Abrams gets credit. And yes she has access to corporate money and is connected to a superpac. So let her use it to win GA in the runoffs. Don't need that guy's attitude.
GONYK wrote:Food for thought...
?s=19
?s=19
?s=19
Maybe things aren't as simple as they seem?
GONYK wrote:K-DOT wrote:GONYK wrote:Food for thought...Spoiler:
Maybe things aren't as simple as they seem?
I think a lot of it comes down to messaging
When you take progressive concepts by themselves and don't give context to them, the country loves them. Universal healthcare has like a 70% approval rating when people aren't given a name, just the policy. Same reason why 15 an hour won overwhelmingly in Florida but Biden lost handily
A lot of the country don't see themselves as being "progressive," so when you say "this is a progressive position," their opinion of it changes. And the Republicans have done an amazing job over the years of convincing people that progressivism is terrible. So what the Dems (more specifically, progressives) need to do is find a way to break the people out of this mindset, which isn't an easy thing. The moderates are scared to endorse more progressive ideology because they're afraid they'll lose voters, but if we could normalize the ideas, it wouldn't lose them voters because people would no longer see them as "progressive" positions, but mainstream ones. Still left-leaning, but not as far left as they're portrayed now.
I don't disagree. I'm just seeing in the debate on this board that some argue that running an AOC in every district is the answer. I don't think the data supports that.
To push progressive ideas forward, it will be a district by district, state by state effort. You're going to elect a lot more Joe Bidens, who are shrouding progressive ideas in a centrist platform, than AOCs over the span of the country.
That's not capitulation or corporatism or whatever. That might just be straight up reality based strategy.
Like I posted yesterday, this is the battlefield progressives are working in:
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
GONYK wrote:K-DOT wrote:GONYK wrote:Food for thought...Spoiler:
Maybe things aren't as simple as they seem?
I think a lot of it comes down to messaging
When you take progressive concepts by themselves and don't give context to them, the country loves them. Universal healthcare has like a 70% approval rating when people aren't given a name, just the policy. Same reason why 15 an hour won overwhelmingly in Florida but Biden lost handily
A lot of the country don't see themselves as being "progressive," so when you say "this is a progressive position," their opinion of it changes. And the Republicans have done an amazing job over the years of convincing people that progressivism is terrible. So what the Dems (more specifically, progressives) need to do is find a way to break the people out of this mindset, which isn't an easy thing. The moderates are scared to endorse more progressive ideology because they're afraid they'll lose voters, but if we could normalize the ideas, it wouldn't lose them voters because people would no longer see them as "progressive" positions, but mainstream ones. Still left-leaning, but not as far left as they're portrayed now.
I don't disagree. I'm just seeing in the debate on this board that some argue that running an AOC in every district is the answer. I don't think the data supports that.
To push progressive ideas forward, it will be a district by district, state by state effort. You're going to elect a lot more Joe Bidens, who are shrouding progressive ideas in a centrist platform, than AOCs over the span of the country.
That's not capitulation or corporatism or whatever. That might just be straight up reality based strategy.
Like I posted yesterday, this is the battlefield progressives are working in:
GONYK wrote:K-DOT wrote:GONYK wrote:Food for thought...Spoiler:
Maybe things aren't as simple as they seem?
I think a lot of it comes down to messaging
When you take progressive concepts by themselves and don't give context to them, the country loves them. Universal healthcare has like a 70% approval rating when people aren't given a name, just the policy. Same reason why 15 an hour won overwhelmingly in Florida but Biden lost handily
A lot of the country don't see themselves as being "progressive," so when you say "this is a progressive position," their opinion of it changes. And the Republicans have done an amazing job over the years of convincing people that progressivism is terrible. So what the Dems (more specifically, progressives) need to do is find a way to break the people out of this mindset, which isn't an easy thing. The moderates are scared to endorse more progressive ideology because they're afraid they'll lose voters, but if we could normalize the ideas, it wouldn't lose them voters because people would no longer see them as "progressive" positions, but mainstream ones. Still left-leaning, but not as far left as they're portrayed now.
I don't disagree. I'm just seeing in the debate on this board that some argue that running an AOC in every district is the answer. I don't think the data supports that.
To push progressive ideas forward, it will be a district by district, state by state effort. You're going to elect a lot more Joe Bidens, who are shrouding progressive ideas in a centrist platform, than AOCs over the span of the country.
That's not capitulation or corporatism or whatever. That might just be straight up reality based strategy.
Like I posted yesterday, this is the battlefield progressives are working in:
I believe this is from the '20 electionJeff Van Gully wrote:GONYK wrote:K-DOT wrote:I think a lot of it comes down to messaging
When you take progressive concepts by themselves and don't give context to them, the country loves them. Universal healthcare has like a 70% approval rating when people aren't given a name, just the policy. Same reason why 15 an hour won overwhelmingly in Florida but Biden lost handily
A lot of the country don't see themselves as being "progressive," so when you say "this is a progressive position," their opinion of it changes. And the Republicans have done an amazing job over the years of convincing people that progressivism is terrible. So what the Dems (more specifically, progressives) need to do is find a way to break the people out of this mindset, which isn't an easy thing. The moderates are scared to endorse more progressive ideology because they're afraid they'll lose voters, but if we could normalize the ideas, it wouldn't lose them voters because people would no longer see them as "progressive" positions, but mainstream ones. Still left-leaning, but not as far left as they're portrayed now.
I don't disagree. I'm just seeing in the debate on this board that some argue that running an AOC in every district is the answer. I don't think the data supports that.
To push progressive ideas forward, it will be a district by district, state by state effort. You're going to elect a lot more Joe Bidens, who are shrouding progressive ideas in a centrist platform, than AOCs over the span of the country.
That's not capitulation or corporatism or whatever. That might just be straight up reality based strategy.
Like I posted yesterday, this is the battlefield progressives are working in:
is there an updated one of these? the sample would be pretty different with the data from this election vs. 2016. not sure how that has impacted the splits.
K-DOT wrote:GONYK wrote:K-DOT wrote:I think a lot of it comes down to messaging
When you take progressive concepts by themselves and don't give context to them, the country loves them. Universal healthcare has like a 70% approval rating when people aren't given a name, just the policy. Same reason why 15 an hour won overwhelmingly in Florida but Biden lost handily
A lot of the country don't see themselves as being "progressive," so when you say "this is a progressive position," their opinion of it changes. And the Republicans have done an amazing job over the years of convincing people that progressivism is terrible. So what the Dems (more specifically, progressives) need to do is find a way to break the people out of this mindset, which isn't an easy thing. The moderates are scared to endorse more progressive ideology because they're afraid they'll lose voters, but if we could normalize the ideas, it wouldn't lose them voters because people would no longer see them as "progressive" positions, but mainstream ones. Still left-leaning, but not as far left as they're portrayed now.
I don't disagree. I'm just seeing in the debate on this board that some argue that running an AOC in every district is the answer. I don't think the data supports that.
To push progressive ideas forward, it will be a district by district, state by state effort. You're going to get a lot more Joe Bidens, who are shrouding progressive ideas in a centrist platform, than AOCs over the span of the country.
Like I posted yesterday, this is the battlefield progressives are working in:
I agree, I just don't like how some Dems seem to be taking away the idea that progressivism turns off voters and we need to go hard after moderate Republican voters
After 2016, it should be obvious that isn't gonna consistently win you elections. Joe Biden didn't win Georgia because he was a moderate, he won Georgia because of the efforts of Stacey Abrams and company getting people to vote who feel disenfranchised. Granted, that doesn't mean they're more progressive than the main Dem party overall, but getting the disenfranchised out is a much better long term strategy than pandering to Republican voters who only vote for Dems when the Republicans are so obviously bad they really can't justify voting for them. Long term it will lead to more progressive legislation, and while I want it now, I'd rather have it later than never.
TGW wrote:GONYK wrote:K-DOT wrote:I think a lot of it comes down to messaging
When you take progressive concepts by themselves and don't give context to them, the country loves them. Universal healthcare has like a 70% approval rating when people aren't given a name, just the policy. Same reason why 15 an hour won overwhelmingly in Florida but Biden lost handily
A lot of the country don't see themselves as being "progressive," so when you say "this is a progressive position," their opinion of it changes. And the Republicans have done an amazing job over the years of convincing people that progressivism is terrible. So what the Dems (more specifically, progressives) need to do is find a way to break the people out of this mindset, which isn't an easy thing. The moderates are scared to endorse more progressive ideology because they're afraid they'll lose voters, but if we could normalize the ideas, it wouldn't lose them voters because people would no longer see them as "progressive" positions, but mainstream ones. Still left-leaning, but not as far left as they're portrayed now.
I don't disagree. I'm just seeing in the debate on this board that some argue that running an AOC in every district is the answer. I don't think the data supports that.
To push progressive ideas forward, it will be a district by district, state by state effort. You're going to elect a lot more Joe Bidens, who are shrouding progressive ideas in a centrist platform, than AOCs over the span of the country.
That's not capitulation or corporatism or whatever. That might just be straight up reality based strategy.
Like I posted yesterday, this is the battlefield progressives are working in:
People will vote for policies that make sense. Universal healthcare, a living wage, and free colleges and universities are all ideas that poll well across the aisle. The reason the Democrats don't run on these ideas has nothing to do with red vs. blue. It has everything to do with the donor class, lobbyists, and corporatists who give money to the Democrats not wanting them to run on this. AOCs can win in any district of this country if the Dem party actually supported and promoted the ideas she believes in. The Democrats don't. They'd rather stay bent over for special interest so that they can continue to have their fundraisers in the Hamptons and private jets.
GONYK wrote:TGW wrote:GONYK wrote:
I don't disagree. I'm just seeing in the debate on this board that some argue that running an AOC in every district is the answer. I don't think the data supports that.
To push progressive ideas forward, it will be a district by district, state by state effort. You're going to elect a lot more Joe Bidens, who are shrouding progressive ideas in a centrist platform, than AOCs over the span of the country.
That's not capitulation or corporatism or whatever. That might just be straight up reality based strategy.
Like I posted yesterday, this is the battlefield progressives are working in:
People will vote for policies that make sense. Universal healthcare, a living wage, and free colleges and universities are all ideas that poll well across the aisle. The reason the Democrats don't run on these ideas has nothing to do with red vs. blue. It has everything to do with the donor class, lobbyists, and corporatists who give money to the Democrats not wanting them to run on this. AOCs can win in any district of this country if the Dem party actually supported and promoted the ideas she believes in. The Democrats don't. They'd rather stay bent over for special interest so that they can continue to have their fundraisers in the Hamptons and private jets.
People with AOC's policies might. People with AOC's rhetoric is a different story.
Explain why Joe Biden is beating AOC in her own district.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
stuporman wrote:robillionaire wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:
I said weed can make anyone a veggie if you do too much of it. I don't see it as benign if abused
I said that in addition to legalizing weed there should still be laws on the books that prohibit driving high, just like alcohol
You were wound up and took it personally, but those were and still are my beliefs
But I'm a libertarian when it comes to substances. Do as thy will my friend
I just want full decriminalization. And stores. And for NYC to have Amsterdam style coffee shops. That’s all I ask
It's so strange AZ did it before NY....
Jimmit79 wrote:At this point I want RJ to get paid
HarthorneWingo wrote:stuporman wrote:robillionaire wrote:
I just want full decriminalization. And stores. And for NYC to have Amsterdam style coffee shops. That’s all I ask
It's so strange AZ did it before NY....
I know and it’s because of the idiots here on Trump (Long) Island where I live. That’s what ruined it. We need to put it to a referendum in order to get it done.
Jimmit79 wrote:At this point I want RJ to get paid
BKlutch wrote:robillionaire wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:
I said weed can make anyone a veggie if you do too much of it. I don't see it as benign if abused
I said that in addition to legalizing weed there should still be laws on the books that prohibit driving high, just like alcohol
You were wound up and took it personally, but those were and still are my beliefs
But I'm a libertarian when it comes to substances. Do as thy will my friend
I just want full decriminalization. And stores. And for NYC to have Amsterdam style coffee shops. That’s all I ask
Weed is a drug that can safely be used similarly to how people can safely use alcohol. It can also be abused equally easily - people who need to be high every day of their lives, all day, are going to be screwed. I don't believe legalization will increase the number of people who abuse drugs, but it will take the stigma away from people who are arrested for smoking.
A friend who buys his weed from the local dispensary in Massachusetts says it's the best he's ever had and the price is reasonable. He's a responsible guy and enjoys himself without abusing. He also doesn't abuse alcohol, or anything else. So legal weed has been only a net positive for him, and many other people.
I believe one of the biggest roadblocks to wider legalization has been the lack of widespread availability of a test to see how high somebody is, like the way there is a breathalyzer for alcohol. This makes some in law enforcement worry they can't control it.
Oh well, once they figure this out, they can go on to criminalizing other activities, like sex.
Oscirus wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:stuporman wrote:
It's so strange AZ did it before NY....
I know and it’s because of the idiots here on Trump (Long) Island where I live. That’s what ruined it. We need to put it to a referendum in order to get it done.
Cuomos a puss who's more worried about serving his donors then his constituents. How nobodys been able to muster up decent opposition to him in the election is beyond me.
K-DOT wrote:GONYK wrote:Food for thought...Spoiler:
Maybe things aren't as simple as they seem?
I think a lot of it comes down to messaging
HarthorneWingo wrote:Oscirus wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:
I know and it’s because of the idiots here on Trump (Long) Island where I live. That’s what ruined it. We need to put it to a referendum in order to get it done.
Cuomos a puss who's more worried about serving his donors then his constituents. How nobodys been able to muster up decent opposition to him in the election is beyond me.
He’s going to run for POTUS in ‘24.
How about AOC for Gov of NY?
Jimmit79 wrote:At this point I want RJ to get paid
K-DOT wrote:Trump supporters have been saying for years f*ck your feelings, cry more, you lost get over it, calling Dems "snowflakes" etc
Now that they lost, they're all in their feelings about being given that sh*t right back at them
If you talk sh*t, you best make sure you can back it up. Cause if you can't, you're gonna get made fun of right back. If you can't handle that, then keep your mouth shut. Goes for everyone, this is a basketball forum.