Zonkerbl wrote:I_Like_Dirt wrote:True, we will never know. I was doubtful myself beforehand but am convinced now, though: Biden was needed. Republicans aren't really moving to the Democrats in any numbers that matter - it's actually working the other way around. The Democrats stand to bleed middle ground support, even if a lot of it is just people staying home in order to bet on youth voter turnout and imaginary Republicans flipping. The anger definitely plays well and that's where Bernie is popular and people will like Bernie the person better but when it comes how they see things and how they'll vote... that's just different.Kanyewest wrote:
It seems to be one of those things we will not know on how a progressive would have done i.e how Bernie/Warren would have done in a head to head election with Donald Trump. It is possible that Bernie could win- I personally know a fair number of Republican supporters who supported Bernie and may have done better with blue collar workers. Warren would have been a great debator. Then again, it is entirely possible that seem more people would have been scared of Socialism (although Trump may have successfully attached those terms in Florida). Even the polls had Bernie at a similar level of support head to head against Trump as Biden, but it's certainly clear now that those polls cannot readily be relied upon to make any predictions.
Honestly, this is the big challenge for progressives at this point. People talk about it can't hurt to try but it really can if you basically concede to both houses and the presidency being Republican to try.
The reality is that it isn't just Republicans against this stuff. To get it to work there are two ways to go about it; either an absolutely massive electoral wave that is nowhere close to existing (they couldn't even get Bernie through the Dem nomination, for example) or the trojan horse it with internal policy controls that people don't notice.
I'm not happy about this reality but it's clearly the way things are. If the Dems do manage to flip the senate (still a slim chance), Kamala is VP and people lime AOC and Katie Porter start taking on more prominent roles, that would be about as miraculous as it could have possibly been on the progressive front.
Sent from my SM-G970W using RealGM mobile app
I have the opposite take. Biden was supposed to persuade crossover Republicans. There weren't any. Fortunately looks like the progressives turned out anyway, but for sustainable progress you're going to need them and black voters.
Biden really brought out black voters, God knows why, so if you want to give him credit, its for that. But we need progressive white voters too.
People are also asserting that Trump did better with African Americans/Hispanics than any candidate since George HW Bush. That being said, those figures may be distorted a bit since the exit polls are skewed heavily towards Trump supporters.