Image ImageImage Image

OT Election Thread

Moderators: HomoSapien, Ice Man, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10

Ice Man
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 26,976
And1: 16,013
Joined: Apr 19, 2011

Re: OT Election Thread 

Post#861 » by Ice Man » Mon Nov 9, 2020 4:13 pm

moorhosj wrote: Pre-existing conditions is the perfect example, no politician will come out against it, it is here to stay, but Democrats have paid a heavy political price for being "right".


Bill Clinton spent his 1992 political capital on health care, with nothing to show for it and a big Republican victory in the '94 midterms. Barack Obama spent his 2008 political capital on health care, getting the ACA passed, but leading to a big Republican victory in 2010. History suggests that Democrats benefit from talking about health care, but pay a heavy price when attempting to put their words into actions.
moorhosj
Junior
Posts: 473
And1: 386
Joined: Jun 19, 2018
 

Re: OT Election Thread 

Post#862 » by moorhosj » Mon Nov 9, 2020 4:16 pm

Ice Man wrote:Bill Clinton spent his 1992 political capital on health care, with nothing to show for it and a big Republican victory in the '94 midterms. Barack Obama spent his 2008 political capital on health care, getting the ACA passed, but leading to a big Republican victory in 2010. History suggests that Democrats benefit from talking about health care, but pay a heavy price when attempting to put their words into actions.


It is a cynical thought, but likely true. If they were tactical they would treat it like they do immigration. Talk about it a bunch to gain votes, but never actually do anything to solve it.

The Republicans do this with abortion and guns. They had complete government control in 2016 and did nothing on these two "issues". Solving the problem would likely hurt their turnout.
Red8911
RealGM
Posts: 14,840
And1: 4,719
Joined: Jul 13, 2010
Location: BROOKLYN

Re: OT Election Thread 

Post#863 » by Red8911 » Mon Nov 9, 2020 4:29 pm

Don't troll the thread, I posted warnings about it.
MrSparkle
RealGM
Posts: 23,389
And1: 11,191
Joined: Jul 31, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT Election Thread 

Post#864 » by MrSparkle » Mon Nov 9, 2020 4:50 pm

Ice Man wrote:
moorhosj wrote: Pre-existing conditions is the perfect example, no politician will come out against it, it is here to stay, but Democrats have paid a heavy political price for being "right".


Bill Clinton spent his 1992 political capital on health care, with nothing to show for it and a big Republican victory in the '94 midterms. Barack Obama spent his 2008 political capital on health care, getting the ACA passed, but leading to a big Republican victory in 2010. History suggests that Democrats benefit from talking about health care, but pay a heavy price when attempting to put their words into actions.


Well, like every other policy issue in America, everything is so mangled between the profit-margins of various industries and lobbyists, it's hard to convince the confused American what's best for them.

Most people have come around to acknowledging that Pizza Hut, Popeyes, and McDonalds aren't good for you, but they've also doubled down that they don't care. And the rest have grown convinced that if it's "organic" or vegan, it's healthy (when really it's still sugary or starchy). Fact is the average American food and drink has a high back-door cost (health care), and IMO it's fairly apparent that they want to keep that burden on American citizens and the current medical/pharma/insurance entanglement, while also exploiting much of the developing world with their Kraft, Nestle and Coca Cola food banks.

Fixing US health care is a 2-fold process that won't happen. The economy runs on people's poor health. It really does.

Navigating pre-existing conditions without another plan in place is pure talk and nonsense. Republicans would just shift the definition of 'pre-existing condition,' and insurance companies would create a new term for chronic symptoms; something more clever, that would separate the healthy (who aren't a medical-cost burden) and the unhealthy, who are a burden. They just need to think-tank up a new term, one that congers more fear about your dangerous neighbor's tax bill.

We could vote Bernie Sanders in, AOC could become Speaker of the House in some weird accident, and I bet you with a slim majority, a Democratic Senate still wouldn't pass an ideal health care plan. For poor communities in the United States, the fanciest store fronts in the neighborhood are dialysis care centers. And they're subsidized by taxes. We're already paying for the costs of this health care, but the point is that food and medical corporations want no part of that bill. They want tax payers and American individuals paying it.

We the tax payers and American patients are already getting hosed left and right by these back-door costs. Politicians are just trying as hard as possible to hide their gigantic back-door pay-cuts and industry mistresses.

ACA was the feasible idea. The mandate on insurance is such a funny thing to worry about, considering the premise that US health care is totally unaffordable if uninsured. I don't get why we aren't allowed to drive cars without insurance, but owning guns, selling Hostess cakes and soft drinks, all this **** is celebrated and made as cheap as possible.

If Biden can squeeze in some form of a public option and expand the tax-credits, and meanwhile push back the food and pharm lobbyists, it'd be a win. The fact that it was so hard for the Trump/McConnell tandem to "repeal" the ACA, and basically had to keep appointing judges and take it courts to mangle it down, means the bill wasn't so bad after all. Of course there were a lot of bad compromises and things didn't work out as hoped, but I'd love if the Biden admin was able to get back some leverage.

It's hard though, because 71m feel attacked when you suggest TGI Friday's is anti-American.
TheStig
RealGM
Posts: 14,795
And1: 3,973
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Location: Get rid of GarPaxDorf

Re: OT Election Thread 

Post#865 » by TheStig » Mon Nov 9, 2020 5:04 pm

dougthonus wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
TheStig wrote:To be fair, that's American capitalism.


Its not.

It's what has become of American capitalism.

And its dangerous.


Well, its been moving in that direction aggressively since Reagan which is now a super long time. I agree its dangerous, but it isn't going to stop it. It is specifically the Republican party that has pushed for this extremely directly. They've been practicing trickle down economics where the plan was to give lots of money to the rich and hope they generate more jobs with that money. Not that I think the Republican party was thinking "ahh lets steal from the poor", but they absolutely were thinking "how can we lower taxes on the wealthy and make corporate profits better" and while doing so the impact was that over time they did that.

They're all in on it. When the deomcrats had all the senate, house and presidency, they did nothing to address it. They came in after the greatest financial meltdown in the last 70 years and bailed most of the key players. So much for capitalism!

The problem is that the rich and corporations buy the politicians. You have to remove the money from politics, you have to get rid of super pacs and lobbyists before you'll see any such improvement. Put candidates back on the presidential fund. We live in the facebook/twitter/youtube era. There is no need for billions of dollars to be spent on an election. And bring back the equal sides law in the news. So maybe, we could all have some sort of share reality.
TheStig
RealGM
Posts: 14,795
And1: 3,973
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Location: Get rid of GarPaxDorf

Re: OT Election Thread 

Post#866 » by TheStig » Mon Nov 9, 2020 5:19 pm

PlayerUp wrote:
Dresden wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
AOC and her progressive party I can only expect will start turning on Biden once they realize Biden is going to give them next to nothing they want. It's clear to me Biden is just going to pick off where Obama left off as the majority would want this.


And why would they do that? Biden holds the reins of power now- if they want anything, they need to work with him, not separate themselves. The progressives will continue to try to win more seats and add to their numbers. Their influence will be felt in things like congressional committee work, as we saw recently when the woman from Orange County grilled Big Pharma CEO's on their obscene profit margins.


I don't think you realize what is to come here.

There are so many demographic groups in America compared to before. They all want major changes. The reason they went out to vote Biden over Trump was they were hopeful certain things can happen under a Biden administration. The reality is Biden in no way can offer all these path to citizenships, boost immigration, help the black community, help the progressives, help the poor community. It's just not possible and they're expecting so much from him while at the same time Biden is getting big dollars from donors in wall street pushing him into office which we all know that means Biden promised there would be minor changes under his administration.

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Image

Some are already getting negative about a Biden administration but give it more time these groups will start turning on Biden as well. For me personally, if I was in Bidens shoes I would focus in certain areas being the citizens of this country 1st and then once major progress has been made, then focus on non citizens after that. If you try to do too many things, next to nothing will get done.

I know I seem negative about Biden. My expectations are low. Much like Trump. You have to give the president a chance to govern but also hold him accountable. No need to brawl over it yet. He's not even in office.
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 58,823
And1: 18,889
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:
 

Re: OT Election Thread 

Post#867 » by dougthonus » Mon Nov 9, 2020 5:37 pm

Locking this thread because we don't want to keep a long term political thread open on the forum as they become notoriously difficult to moderate. Thank you to those whom have kept it civil throughout. -Doug
Ice Man
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 26,976
And1: 16,013
Joined: Apr 19, 2011

Re: OT Election Thread 

Post#868 » by Ice Man » Mon Nov 9, 2020 11:12 pm

TheStig wrote:They're all in on it. When the deomcrats had all the senate, house and presidency, they did nothing to address it. They came in after the greatest financial meltdown in the last 70 years and bailed most of the key players.


1) Preet Bharara, U.S. Attorney for Southern NY at the time, and thus the person responsible for prosecuting crimes, says that the statutes didn't permit convictions. He is known for being tough on Wall Street. Look, I don't know the law, but the guy has earned the right to be heard.

2) When the Democrats got crushed in the 2010 midterms, it wasn't because people thought they were too soft on Wall Street. Quite the opposite, the Republicans campaigned against them for being anti-capitalist socialists.

People talk tough about Wall Street after the market goes down, but in normal times the best way to lose an election is to run against Wall Street. That's not because of the lobbyists. That is the choice of the voters.

By and large, we have the government that our people want. If they wanted something different, they were vote for people who make those things happen.

Return to Chicago Bulls