2020 NBA Draft Prospects: Thread II

moonpie · Post #1901 » by **moonpie** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:19 am

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Neeva · Post #1902 » by **Neeva** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:26 am

Edwards has been showing love to the wolves since lottery announcement.... exact opposite of wiseman.

Jedzz · Post #1903 » by **Jedzz** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:27 am

urinesane wrote:I don't understand how everyone repeats the motto that you draft the best player available and then in our situation says that a player doesn't fit.

Isn't the point to not care about fit and get the best player? How many times have teams drafted for fit and missed out on great players? Way more than drafting for fit has worked imo.

Not sure about that. I don't think anyone has ever counted. One missed choice by one team and all of a sudden its a big wives tail. How many choices have been made and claimed they took BPA and the player was a bust? Most of them.

I believe there are two sides to this in the Wolves situation and they both are reasonable.
A. People are claiming they have been a terrible team and aren't good enough to pass up BPA talent regardless.
B. They have a new pair of Max players and one of them didn't fit with a number of players they had before. The roster was flipped almost two whole times now since Rosas arrived. At some point they need to find players to fit the guys they are paying 60 million for and try to do something. That's where deciding on fit comes in. Drafting the BPA that fits is reasonable to me.

What and who is BPA is also in the eye of the beholder as well. We don't know it. Rosas be the beholder this go around. If he has seen enough of Wiseman to believe he's top shelf type of talent I'm not going to begrudge him that choice.

urinesane · Post #1904 » by **urinesane** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:28 am

Neeva wrote:Edwards has been showing love to the wolves since lottery announcement.... exact opposite of wiseman.

The rumor with Kahn not picking Curry was because he didn't want to be here right? Who cares what they want, this isn't a HS player picking their college.

Edwards wants to be the #1 pick, it just so happens to be MN. He would want to be it regardless of who has the pick.

Pick Wiseman and get a beast that can help them win right away. Winning cures everything and that #1 pick shine only lasts so long if the team is losing tons of games.

jpatrick · Post #1905 » by **jpatrick** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:34 am

moonpie wrote:

Read on Twitter

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Is Miles Bridges any good? He put up mediocre stats on a bad team. I liked him at MSU and a possible 3 and D combo forward. Not sure he’s shown he’d be a starter on a decent team though.

PJ Washington has fans on this site. I didn’t see much of him last year but he did knock down the three better than I thought I would.

I mean, let’s be honest, what Rosas would want is a lightly (unprotected?) protected #1. Would the Hornets do that? That’s the question.

If this played out, my best guess is Wiseman goes 1, the Warriors trade down to a team picking Ball at 2, and we’d take Edwards at 3.

Jedzz · Post #1906 » by **Jedzz** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:34 am

urinesane wrote:
Neeva wrote:Edwards has been showing love to the wolves since lottery announcement.... exact opposite of wiseman.

The rumor with Kahn not picking Curry was because he didn't want to be here right? Who cares what they want, this isn't a HS player picking their college.

Edwards wants to be the #1 pick, it just so happens to be MN. He would want to be it regardless of who has the pick.

Pick Wiseman and get a beast that can help them win right away. Winning cures everything and that #1 pick shine only lasts so long if the team is losing tons of games.

Yeah, I think Edwards wants to be the #1 is the biggest thing. At least he's not stupid enough to limit his options like Wiseman appears to be trying to do. Depending on the Beasley situation, he might end up the pick. I just hope they vet his game IQ. We can't handle another clueless player.

I question the Wiseman choice to ask not to go #1 and not talk to MN. But I also don't mind the idea to say screw it and draft him anyway if Rosas believes he actually is the next big thing for the NBA. Play him and extort his value afterwards if so.

Norseman79 · Post #1907 » by **Norseman79** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:42 am

Are there official height and weight for Edwards yet? Not listed height, actual height

Jedzz · Post #1908 » by **Jedzz** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:04 am

Norseman79 wrote:Are there official height and weight for Edwards yet? Not listed height, actual height

The Wolves know anyway. *Rosas holds his hand up over his head and says "this high"

Wolveswin · Post #1909 » by **Wolveswin** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:37 am

Let’s get all 3...

Bulls: #4 + Thad FOR #10 + Rubio + 2022 Suns 1st

Warriors: #2 + Looney + Smailagic + 2021 Wolves 1st FOR #17 + Ayton + Oubre Jr. (via Iggy TPE)

Suns: #10 + Rubio + Oubre Jr. + Ayton + 2022 1st FOR Towns + Russell + Smailagic

Wolves: #17 + Towns + Russell FOR #2 + #4 + Thad + Looney + 2021 Wolves 1st (returned)

Draft:
#1 Wolves: Wiseman
#2 Wolves: Edwards
#3 Hornets: Okongwu (no way they take Ball)
#4 Wolves: Ball

Wolves:
Wiseman
Thad or Johnson | Spellman | Vanderbilt
Culver
Edwards | Okogie
Ball

Baseline81 · Post #1910 » by **Baseline81** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:52 am

Wolveswin wrote:Let’s get all 3...

Bulls: #4 + Thad FOR #10 + Rubio + 2022 Suns 1st

Warriors: #2 + Looney + Smailagic + 2021 Wolves 1st FOR #17 + Ayton + Oubre Jr. (via Iggy TPE)

Suns: #10 + Rubio + Oubre Jr. + Ayton + 2022 1st FOR Towns + Russell + Smailagic

Wolves: #17 + Towns + Russell FOR #2 + #4 + Thad + Looney + 2021 Wolves 1st (returned)

Draft:
#1 Wolves: Wiseman
#2 Wolves: Edwards
#3 Hornets: Okongwu (no way they take Ball)
#4 Wolves: Ball

Wolves:
Wiseman
Thad or Johnson | Spellman | Vanderbilt
Culver
Edwards | Okogie
Ball

Please listen:

Watch on YouTube

younggunsmn · Post #1911 » by **younggunsmn** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:24 am

jpatrick wrote:Okay guys. Wiseman played one game against high major competition this year. One. The last time he played against good competition was AAU, specifically the EYBL, which upper tier of AAU competition. And despite significant size advantages over his opponents, he was not good.

I hear people talk about him being a shooter based on videos. Go back and watch Cauley-Stein’s videos, he was knocking down 3s with good form. Guess what, not a shooter, at all.

In the EYBL, Wiseman had a TS% of 52%, significantly lower than most bigs in the league. This included shooting 55% from the line and 14% from the HIGH SCHOOL three point line.

If you listen to commentators that watched him, he was also a poor defender. He cannot defend in space. Neither can Towns. Thus I have no idea how moving KAT to the perimeter is going to help. While we’ll have more length by the rim, we’ll be giving up a ton of open jumpers. And the three point line is where the game is won and lost on that end nowadays.

Will I be upset if we take Wiseman? No. None of the prospects up top are great IMO but these claims that Wiseman is elite in all these area is just wrong. Much like Edwards, he’s elite in one area, size/body/athleticism for his position.

Here’s an article that discusses Wiseman’s AAU showing, including stats comparing him to other bigs.

https://fansided.com/2019/10/08/james-wiseman-flawed-weaknesses/

Look at footage of Ball at the same age, I question whether he would have even merited a D-1 offer with a different last name.
Look at the footage of Wiseman from 17-18-19 to now, he has improved his body and his skills.
There are questions about how good he will be defensively, as there are about any 19 year old.
When you are evaluating 19 years old for defense, you look at IQ and you look at traits.
He doesnt have enough of a track record to judge IQ, but he has all the traits in spades.

Look at this video:

Watch on YouTube

Picture perfect jumper with touch. Ballhandling skills.
Quick twitch stop and start which looks well above average for a guy his size.
Length and finishing well above the rim, good fundamentals holding the ball high in the paint.
I see so much unicorn potential.

Coaches and execs that change the game don't worry about fit.
They believe in talent and they believe in their ability to put their players in a position to succeed.
I'm not worried about one of KAT or Wiseman defending the perimeter for 15-20 mins a game.
KAT's always going to be a liability on D, I don't care if you put prime dennis rodman or KG next to him.
There isn't a team in the league, possibly outside of Milwaukee, with the personnel to defend both of them at the same time.
I'm sick of adjusting to what better teams do to us.
It's time to turn the tables and make them adjust to us.

jpatrick · Post #1912 » by **jpatrick** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:46 am

younggunsmn wrote:
jpatrick wrote:Okay guys. Wiseman played one game against high major competition this year. One. The last time he played against good competition was AAU, specifically the EYBL, which upper tier of AAU competition. And despite significant size advantages over his opponents, he was not good.

I hear people talk about him being a shooter based on videos. Go back and watch Cauley-Stein’s videos, he was knocking down 3s with good form. Guess what, not a shooter, at all.

In the EYBL, Wiseman had a TS% of 52%, significantly lower than most bigs in the league. This included shooting 55% from the line and 14% from the HIGH SCHOOL three point line.

If you listen to commentators that watched him, he was also a poor defender. He cannot defend in space. Neither can Towns. Thus I have no idea how moving KAT to the perimeter is going to help. While we’ll have more length by the rim, we’ll be giving up a ton of open jumpers. And the three point line is where the game is won and lost on that end nowadays.

Will I be upset if we take Wiseman? No. None of the prospects up top are great IMO but these claims that Wiseman is elite in all these area is just wrong. Much like Edwards, he’s elite in one area, size/body/athleticism for his position.

Here’s an article that discusses Wiseman’s AAU showing, including stats comparing him to other bigs.

https://fansided.com/2019/10/08/james-wiseman-flawed-weaknesses/

Look at footage of Ball at the same age, I question whether he would have even merited a D-1 offer with a different last name.
Look at the footage of Wiseman from 17-18-19 to now, he has improved his body and his skills.
There are questions about how good he will be defensively, as there are about any 19 year old.
When you are evaluating 19 years old for defense, you look at IQ and you look at traits.
He doesnt have enough of a track record to judge IQ, but he has all the traits in spades.

Look at this video:

Watch on YouTube

Picture perfect jumper with touch. Ballhandling skills.
Quick twitch stop and start which looks well above average for a guy his size.
Length and finishing well above the rim, good fundamentals holding the ball high in the paint.
I see so much unicorn potential.

Coaches and execs that change the game don't worry about fit.
They believe in talent and they believe in their ability to put their players in a position to succeed.
I'm not worried about one of KAT or Wiseman defending the perimeter for 15-20 mins a game.
KAT's always going to be a liability on D, I don't care if you put prime dennis rodman or KG next to him.
There isn't a team in the league, possibly outside of Milwaukee, with the personnel to defend both of them at the same time.
I'm sick of adjusting to what better teams do to us.
It's time to turn the tables and make them adjust to us.

That’s the argument. If you believe that Wiseman is Embiid or a bigger Bosh, you take him, period. Much like Edwards, physically he has it. He just hasn’t shown it on the court yet in competitive games but none of those top three really did, at least efficiently, last year. All these guys are a risk.

younggunsmn · Post #1913 » by **younggunsmn** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:57 am

I question whether Edwards or Ball have "it" when it comes to physical talent.
I see flashes and I also see giant flaws and limitations.
Hitches in shots, terrible fundamentals.
I question whether Edwards has plus agility and whether he will be able to sustain it with his bulk.
Ball is going to get thrown around like a rag doll by NBA talent if he couldnt do it against the Mitch Creeks of the world.
We don't even have any combine drills for any of them.

There is no question with Wiseman when it comes to physical talent.
And his jump shot looks worlds better than either.
Any one of them is a gamble, but he's the guy I feel by far the safest gambling on.

Sulla · Post #1914 » by **Sulla** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:36 am

younggunsmn wrote:
jpatrick wrote:Okay guys. Wiseman played one game against high major competition this year. One. The last time he played against good competition was AAU, specifically the EYBL, which upper tier of AAU competition. And despite significant size advantages over his opponents, he was not good.

I hear people talk about him being a shooter based on videos. Go back and watch Cauley-Stein’s videos, he was knocking down 3s with good form. Guess what, not a shooter, at all.

In the EYBL, Wiseman had a TS% of 52%, significantly lower than most bigs in the league. This included shooting 55% from the line and 14% from the HIGH SCHOOL three point line.

If you listen to commentators that watched him, he was also a poor defender. He cannot defend in space. Neither can Towns. Thus I have no idea how moving KAT to the perimeter is going to help. While we’ll have more length by the rim, we’ll be giving up a ton of open jumpers. And the three point line is where the game is won and lost on that end nowadays.

Will I be upset if we take Wiseman? No. None of the prospects up top are great IMO but these claims that Wiseman is elite in all these area is just wrong. Much like Edwards, he’s elite in one area, size/body/athleticism for his position.

Here’s an article that discusses Wiseman’s AAU showing, including stats comparing him to other bigs.

https://fansided.com/2019/10/08/james-wiseman-flawed-weaknesses/

Look at footage of Ball at the same age, I question whether he would have even merited a D-1 offer with a different last name.
Look at the footage of Wiseman from 17-18-19 to now, he has improved his body and his skills.
There are questions about how good he will be defensively, as there are about any 19 year old.
When you are evaluating 19 years old for defense, you look at IQ and you look at traits.
He doesnt have enough of a track record to judge IQ, but he has all the traits in spades.

Look at this video:

Watch on YouTube

Picture perfect jumper with touch. Ballhandling skills.
Quick twitch stop and start which looks well above average for a guy his size.
Length and finishing well above the rim, good fundamentals holding the ball high in the paint.
I see so much unicorn potential.

Coaches and execs that change the game don't worry about fit.
They believe in talent and they believe in their ability to put their players in a position to succeed.
I'm not worried about one of KAT or Wiseman defending the perimeter for 15-20 mins a game.
KAT's always going to be a liability on D, I don't care if you put prime dennis rodman or KG next to him.
There isn't a team in the league, possibly outside of Milwaukee, with the personnel to defend both of them at the same time.
I'm sick of adjusting to what better teams do to us.
It's time to turn the tables and make them adjust to us.

Maybe we should trade the #1 for Mo Bamba.

Watch on YouTube

Or Mitchell Robinson.

Watch on YouTube

Sulla · Post #1915 » by **Sulla** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:40 am

urinesane wrote:Pick Wiseman and get a beast that can help them win right away.

Or you could just a sign a Nerlens Noel type.

Jedzz · Post #1916 » by **Jedzz** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:08 am

Wolveswin wrote:Let’s get all 3...

Bulls: #4 + Thad FOR #10 + Rubio + 2022 Suns 1st

Warriors: #2 + Looney + Smailagic + 2021 Wolves 1st FOR #17 + Ayton + Oubre Jr. (via Iggy TPE)

Suns: #10 + Rubio + Oubre Jr. + Ayton + 2022 1st FOR Towns + Russell + Smailagic

Wolves: #17 + Towns + Russell FOR #2 + #4 + Thad + Looney + 2021 Wolves 1st (returned)

Draft:
#1 Wolves: Wiseman
#2 Wolves: Edwards
#3 Hornets: Okongwu (no way they take Ball)
#4 Wolves: Ball

Wolves:
Wiseman
Thad or Johnson | Spellman | Vanderbilt
Culver
Edwards | Okogie
Ball

Fairly close to my Towns/Do trade option when Towns was found out hanging with a Kardashian and someone said he already wants out. Got all those picks, but I didn't suggest taking the 3 hyped eggheads..

Jedzz · Post #1917 » by **Jedzz** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:15 am

Sulla wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:
Look at this video:

Watch on YouTube

Maybe we should trade the #1 for Mo Bamba.

[youtube]rsWQ80Exi2

Or Mitchell Robinson.

Watch on YouTube

Robinson >>>>> Wiseman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bamba

Neeva · Post #1918 » by **Neeva** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:30 am

Wolveswin wrote:Let’s get all 3...

Bulls: #4 + Thad FOR #10 + Rubio + 2022 Suns 1st

Warriors: #2 + Looney + Smailagic + 2021 Wolves 1st FOR #17 + Ayton + Oubre Jr. (via Iggy TPE)

Suns: #10 + Rubio + Oubre Jr. + Ayton + 2022 1st FOR Towns + Russell + Smailagic

Wolves: #17 + Towns + Russell FOR #2 + #4 + Thad + Looney + 2021 Wolves 1st (returned)

Draft:
#1 Wolves: Wiseman
#2 Wolves: Edwards
#3 Hornets: Okongwu (no way they take Ball)
#4 Wolves: Ball

Wolves:
Wiseman
Thad or Johnson | Spellman | Vanderbilt
Culver
Edwards | Okogie
Ball

Wolves should do this in draft that is stronger at the top like 2022.

younggunsmn · Post #1919 » by **younggunsmn** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:36 am

Wiseman is more coordinated than Robinson and worlds more coordinated than Bamba. Not a fair comparison.
And Robinson put up a 23.5 PER last year, he is ready to blow up if they can find a decent PG.

I'd take Robinson over Ball or Edwards given the choice.

Neeva · Post #1920 » by **Neeva** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:44 am

Robinson is so overated.

Who should Minnesota Pick at #1 (Assuming Minnesota keeps the pick)?