BaF Season 4- Opening Night 12/1- (Announcement page 57)

[Capn'O]

...

I agree that it went pretty well overall from the team side but can't imagine the workload on the back end. I've wondered if there is some web based auctioning software we could use that would effectively run the auction, though I doubt we find something readily available that can fit the specific parameters of our free agency. It's worth a look though and I'm happy to take on some scouting.

[NewEra]

I look at it this way. The FA process didn't fail. Most of the good FA's either resigned with there original teams with Bird Rights (good thing) we want that.

Or the best teams with cap space scooped up most of the FA's on the best possible deals (that is a good thing as well)

The only thing we really need to look into IMO is controlling all the PM's bish gets at once (especially during the 2022 FA class). I don't think radical changes need to be made.

Please refer to my post about FA desired list. After our longevity of accomplishments, most recent being a championship, The Boston Celtics were ranked higher than us in overall Tier. A change needs to be made to that
FA desireability system.

Also I don’t think the points Deeez and I made should be overlooked, because it would help to minimize the amount of PMs Bish receives.

a couple things maybe the ratings could be tweeked a bit but you did have no one on your roster. I think Kevin Knox was higher.

I do think if say you kept Jimmy Butler you would have one of the higher FA ratings because you would have had a star play and player happiness. Happiness is the most subjective but you technically didn't have any players on the roster to be happy.

I think you could have technically played the offseason a bit differently if you wanted to have a higher FA rating. But you played it perfectly fine to clear as much cap space as possible.

MPH, that’s no excuse. The system needs to be improved. I was ranked with lottery teams, and lower than than teams who have been unsuccessful in this league.

[NewEra]

At the end of the day, I’m all for whatever minimizes PMs for Bish. None of the current rules have ever prevented me from being successful, but I am still proposing that the “player happiness” category under FA desireability be further examined.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I still think making a sub forum on the Knicks board is the easiest way to go for BAF in general. For example we can have threads in free agency, that lets everyone know the bids, the time stamps and all Bish would have to do is look at that instead of going through a million PM's. This allows people to see whose bidding to take away from "bad faith" bids and adds a little more strategy because every single dollar could be accounted for. This is only a problem for those GM's who don't want other teams to know what their bidding.

I think we learned a lot from this free agency to build something better and easier for Bish.

I wouldn't be opposed to this method. Just have bish create all the FA there own unique thread (in the sub forum) and Bish can go in and look at time stamps there. Of course there would be no anonymity but I think that is a small price to pay with Bish.

The only thing you would have to solve is everyone would need to know how there rating effected each type of contract. For example. Since we don't have a 1 for 1 game in terms of FA ratings..and we have bird rights where teams can give a 5th year...its not as simple as giving 4 years 200 beats 5 years 199.

Would would have to build some dynamic summary where depending on what your FA was and how many years you were giving said FA there would be a dollar value you would have to beat.

I think that is very doable after we get ratings and just appropriate them with certain percentages. Something I sort of do on my day to day at work.

Everyone create a new user name each offseason...then wait until the dust settles to reveal identities. That would be even more crazy if you didnt know who got who

[bringbackhoffa]

...

I agree that it went pretty well overall from the team side but can't imagine the workload on the back end. I've wondered if there is some web based auctioning software we could use that would effectively run the auction, though I doubt we find something readily available that can fit the specific parameters of our free agency. It's worth a look though and I'm happy to take on some scouting.

i doubt we can find a unique software. there maybe away for us to use google sheets where bish could assign each GM a unique name and just keep updating the sheet and we would all know if we are the low bidder going off our unique name (this way there is still anonymity) and then just give a range of what it would take to beat the bid (it would be up to each team to guess where we would fall in that range to beat the bid)

[Slicin N Dicin]

I'd have to disagree with the tiered bid offering - steals are a big part of BaF FA and if some GM's are sleeping on a player and someone gets a good deal on a player, you can't fault them for that.

Like MP said - I don't think FA failed in any way....just the bulk of PM's Bish got, we don't need a major overhaul IMO. It's tough to make this more realistic than it already is as we're not dealing with players' personalities and the sort - all players should be available to sign with all teams for whatever the highest bid is, otherwise we're hurting the competitiveness of this BaF.

The only thing that should be considered is how to reduce the # of PM's Bish receives..I don't mind having a public/sub-forum for bids on players as I think that makes it easier. Releasing staggered players list is good in that it helps Bish with less PM's to deal with on a daily basis, but can alter FA too much where you now have to wait for certain players to come out and may miss out on someone depending on how that goes.

Honestly - I think making it public as to what the current high offer is on a player is the only way to make it a bit easier on Bish as that will stop the inquiry PM's or offers that are too low and leave only PM's that are competitive bids, but I can see how some people might not like that.

Sorry a bit of hungover rambling lmao

[mpharris36]

Please refer to my post about FA desired list. After our longevity of accomplishments, most recent being a championship, The Boston Celtics were ranked higher than us in overall Tier. A change needs to be made to that
FA desireability system.

Also I don’t think the points Deeez and I made should be overlooked, because it would help to minimize the amount of PMs Bish receives.

a couple things maybe the ratings could be tweeked a bit but you did have no one on your roster. I think Kevin Knox was higher.

I do think if say you kept Jimmy Butler you would have one of the higher FA ratings because you would have had a star play and player happiness. Happiness is the most subjective but you technically didn't have any players on the roster to be happy.

I think you could have technically played the offseason a bit differently if you wanted to have a higher FA rating. But you played it perfectly fine to clear as much cap space as possible.

MPH, that’s no excuse. The system needs to be improved. I was ranked with lottery teams, and lower than than teams who have been unsuccessful in this league.

agreed but like I said you didn't have to blow up your team entirely. No one held a gun to your head and said clear $1000 of cap space (im not even saying you made the wrong decision) but there are cause and effects to the moves you made. At the end of the day you made the call to completely go into FA with a ton of money and a clean slate. I'm sure if you kept some players you would have had less money but a higher FA rating.

We always knew the FA ratings were a combination of not only paste history but who is currently on the team and future as well.

[NewEra]

I'd have to disagree with the tiered bid offering - steals are a big part of BaF FA and if some GM's are sleeping on a player and someone gets a good deal on a player, you can't fault them for that.

Like MP said - I don't think FA failed in any way....just the bulk of PM's Bish got, we don't need a major overhaul IMO. It's tough to make this more realistic than it already is as we're not dealing with players' personalities and the sort - all players should be available to sign with all teams for whatever the highest bid is, otherwise we're hurting the competitiveness of this BaF.

The only thing that should be considered is how to reduce the # of PM's Bish receives..I don't mind having a public/sub-forum for bids on players as I think that makes it easier. Releasing staggered players list is good in that it helps Bish with less PM's to deal with on a daily basis, but can alter FA too much where you now have to wait for certain players to come out and may miss out on someone depending on how that goes.

Honestly - I think making it public as to what the current high offer is on a player is the only way to make it a bit easier on Bish as that will stop the inquiry PM's or offers that are too low and leave only PM's that are competitive bids, but I can see how some people might not like that.

Sorry a bit of hungover rambling lmao

The public bidding is not a bad idea. Less PMs for Bish is accomplished that way too, so I’m not against that.

[Capn'O]

I still think making a sub forum on the Knicks board is the easiest way to go for BAF in general. For example we can have threads in free agency, that lets everyone know the bids, the time stamps and all Bish would have to do is look at that instead of going through a million PM's. This allows people to see whose bidding to take away from "bad faith" bids and adds a little more strategy because every single dollar could be accounted for. This is only a problem for those GM's who don't want other teams to know what their bidding.

I think we learned a lot from this free agency to build something better and easier for Bish.

I think this is a great idea and ask for Howard Mass. As far as some of the tools, something as simple as a Google doc that updates winning bids for each team (including the bidding team so we don't know who has the bid) would save Bish a lot of work.

Having everything off board may make recruiting for vacant seats a little more difficult but overall would help the game and the interface between the two boards. Maybe the subforum isn't restricted access and shows up on the main board?

[HEZI]

Whatever helps make work for bish easier is fine with me. I think the man has done an incredible job and so much props to him. Thanks again for everything bish!

[Capn'O]

...

I agree that it went pretty well overall from the team side but can't imagine the workload on the back end. I've wondered if there is some web based auctioning software we could use that would effectively run the auction, though I doubt we find something readily available that can fit the specific parameters of our free agency. It's worth a look though and I'm happy to take on some scouting.

i doubt we can find a unique software. there maybe away for us to use google sheets where bish could assign each GM a unique name and just keep updating the sheet and we would all know if we are the low bidder going off our unique name (this way there is still anonymity) and then just give a range of what it would take to beat the bid (it would be up to each team to guess where we would fall in that range to beat the bid)

Lol, you were one step ahead of me. This exact tool would save a lot of time imo. Puts more onus on bidders.

[mpharris36]

I still think making a sub forum on the Knicks board is the easiest way to go for BAF in general. For example we can have threads in free agency, that lets everyone know the bids, the time stamps and all Bish would have to do is look at that instead of going through a million PM's. This allows people to see whose bidding to take away from "bad faith" bids and adds a little more strategy because every single dollar could be accounted for. This is only a problem for those GM's who don't want other teams to know what their bidding.

I think we learned a lot from this free agency to build something better and easier for Bish.

I think this is a great idea and ask for Howard Mass. As far as some of the tools, something as simple as a Google doc that updates winning bids for each team (including the bidding team so we don't know who has the bid) would save Bish a lot of work.

Having everything off board may make recruiting for vacant seats a little more difficult but overall would help the game and the interface between the two boards. Maybe the subforum isn't restricted access and shows up on the main board?

I know people like some level of discretion with bids but there will be a benefit to real time results too in terms of if you are a bidding on 2 or 3 players we don't have to wait for Bish to update anything which is a benefit for teams juggling a lot of FA's.

I think if the only negative is hey there may not be as many $1 steals from now on because people will see how low bids are...I think I would be willing to live with that for real time updates because especially in 2022 people will be juggling multiple big time FA's and we can't put that all on Bish to update everything.

Gotta be realistic about it. Its gotta get more public to help bish out.

[2010]

It’s not only hurting them, it’s hurting the league. I hate to use this term because it has become so cliche, but it is operating in “bad faith”.

I hear you. I don’t agree with what they’re doing. But this prevents the whole league from getting steals if we implement this. That’s not fair at all imo. So again, the people that are doing this are ending up holding the bag so that’s their problem. It hurts them the most.

They shouldn’t be allowed to do it. You should bid on the players you want. Why play the game to bid up players you don’t even want to land? They’ll initially hold the bag yes, but eventually they’ll just trade the player.

Considering timing is everything. You're saying this NOW?

Weren't you one of the ones defending the fuggery wit the profiles and shenanigans to manipulate the market to inflate bids?

[mpharris36]

I agree that it went pretty well overall from the team side but can't imagine the workload on the back end. I've wondered if there is some web based auctioning software we could use that would effectively run the auction, though I doubt we find something readily available that can fit the specific parameters of our free agency. It's worth a look though and I'm happy to take on some scouting.

i doubt we can find a unique software. there maybe away for us to use google sheets where bish could assign each GM a unique name and just keep updating the sheet and we would all know if we are the low bidder going off our unique name (this way there is still anonymity) and then just give a range of what it would take to beat the bid (it would be up to each team to guess where we would fall in that range to beat the bid)

Lol, you were one step ahead of me. This exact tool would save a lot of time imo. Puts more onus on bidders.

correct we can easily do a google sheet and then use a sub forum to time stamp a bid. But to lessen the load of bish its got to get more public.

I can try to work on some kind of ideas in terms of calculations...that if your team is in this tier you have to pay this price. It would just be a formula of some sort that would adjust the amount of years and dollar you would need depending on your FA rating.

[HEZI]

You also can't punish bad teams in free agency more than they already are with the rankings. It's not realistic. Free Agents irl don't just sign with teams because they are good. Are we going to start factoring in "Wife and family happiness" or "coach and player relatonship" "GM and player relationship", etc? I mean different players choose their destinations based on different factors so it's impossible to replicate that to irl. It's fine the way it is.

[NewEra]

a couple things maybe the ratings could be tweeked a bit but you did have no one on your roster. I think Kevin Knox was higher.

I do think if say you kept Jimmy Butler you would have one of the higher FA ratings because you would have had a star play and player happiness. Happiness is the most subjective but you technically didn't have any players on the roster to be happy.

I think you could have technically played the offseason a bit differently if you wanted to have a higher FA rating. But you played it perfectly fine to clear as much cap space as possible.

MPH, that’s no excuse. The system needs to be improved. I was ranked with lottery teams, and lower than than teams who have been unsuccessful in this league.

agreed but like I said you didn't have to blow up your team entirely. No one held a gun to your head and said clear $1000 of cap space (im not even saying you made the wrong decision) but there are cause and effects to the moves you made. At the end of the day you made the call to completely go into FA with a ton of money and a clean slate. I'm sure if you kept some players you would have had less money but a higher FA rating.

We always knew the FA ratings were a combination of not only paste history but who is currently on the team and future as well.

I’d agree to a certain extent, but I only had three players under contract after last season. That is very important to remember when thinking I just blew up my team. I also shouldn’t be penalized for wanting to create as much cap space as possible to bring back Sabonis, Grant, Lou Will, and pursue Booker.

[Capn'O]

i doubt we can find a unique software. there maybe away for us to use google sheets where bish could assign each GM a unique name and just keep updating the sheet and we would all know if we are the low bidder going off our unique name (this way there is still anonymity) and then just give a range of what it would take to beat the bid (it would be up to each team to guess where we would fall in that range to beat the bid)

Lol, you were one step ahead of me. This exact tool would save a lot of time imo. Puts more onus on bidders.

correct we can easily do a google sheet and then use a sub forum to time stamp a bid. But to lessen the load of bish its got to get more public.

I can try to work on some kind of ideas in terms of calculations...that if your team is in this tier you have to pay this price. It would just be a formula of some sort that would adjust the amount of years and dollar you would need depending on your FA rating.

I'm wondering if there can be a public sheet and a private sheet that bish imputs that automatically updates the public sheet with winning bids and a time stamp. I.e. making the bidder private but the bids public.

To me, the challenge is defining the input and the private sheet that affects the output on the public sheet. If that makes any sense.

[Capn'O]

You also can't punish bad teams in free agency more than they already are with the rankings. It's not realistic. Free Agents irl don't just sign with teams because they are good. Are we going to start factoring in "Wife and family happiness" or "coach and player relatonship" "GM and player relationship", etc? I mean different players choose their destinations based on different factors so it's impossible to replicate that to irl. It's fine the way it is.

Also, they all want to live in LA

[mpharris36]

You also can't punish bad teams in free agency more than they already are with the rankings. It's not realistic. Free Agents irl don't just sign with teams because they are good. Are we going to start factoring in "Wife and family happiness" or "coach and player relatonship" "GM and player relationship", etc? I mean different players choose their destinations based on different factors so it's impossible to replicate that to irl. It's fine the way it is.

agreed the nets got better and KD and Kyrie went there...there 2 or 3 years before that didn't play that much of a role on them signing there. It what they did recently.

It can't be just hey this team has been good for 5 straight years they get every benefit. I agree they deserve there due and past history does play a part in FA. The only team that really got screwed for being a good team was GS...but he was in such a unique situation where the team he won it with was totally gone.

Fore example if he kept Westbrook and a few guys he wouldn't have taken a "star" player hit or a happiness hit. He choose extra cap space over the ratings. But that was New Era choice. He still came out pretty good so I don't think the rating system is off its how bish manages the bids...that is why the public sub forum and google docs seems to be a decent solution in my eyes.

[bringbackhoffa]

I agree that it went pretty well overall from the team side but can't imagine the workload on the back end. I've wondered if there is some web based auctioning software we could use that would effectively run the auction, though I doubt we find something readily available that can fit the specific parameters of our free agency. It's worth a look though and I'm happy to take on some scouting.

i doubt we can find a unique software. there maybe away for us to use google sheets where bish could assign each GM a unique name and just keep updating the sheet and we would all know if we are the low bidder going off our unique name (this way there is still anonymity) and then just give a range of what it would take to beat the bid (it would be up to each team to guess where we would fall in that range to beat the bid)

Lol, you were one step ahead of me. This exact tool would save a lot of time imo. Puts more onus on bidders.

Obviously if bish were to assign us each a unique name he could not name who signed with who until the conclusion of free agency but he could keep track of that privately and each team would have to keep track of their own cap space. If we were to find out who signed with whom immediately we could easily figure out which unique name belongs to which team..

I think it could also add another fun dynamic to the game where other than the team who was the low bidder doesn't find out where that player signed until the conclusion of free agency.

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