ImageImageImageImageImage

BaF Season 4- Opening Night 12/1- (Announcement page 57)

Moderators: dakomish23, mpharris36, j4remi, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, HerSports85, Deeeez Knicks

NewEra
RealGM
Posts: 16,147
And1: 13,856
Joined: Oct 11, 2007

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#561 » by NewEra » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:19 pm

2010 wrote:
NewEra wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:I hear you. I don’t agree with what they’re doing. But this prevents the whole league from getting steals if we implement this. That’s not fair at all imo. So again, the people that are doing this are ending up holding the bag so that’s their problem. It hurts them the most.

They shouldn’t be allowed to do it. You should bid on the players you want. Why play the game to bid up players you don’t even want to land? They’ll initially hold the bag yes, but eventually they’ll just trade the player.


Considering timing is everything. You're saying this NOW?

Weren't you one of the ones defending the fuggery wit the profiles and shenanigans to manipulate the market to inflate bids?

I was one of the MAIN ones who called out Hoffa’s shenanigans when it came to announcing a closing bids. I often put an example in this thread of exactly how he would post them. Time and time again I mentioned it was wrong. As a result, a rule was put in place.

I, and most GMs had no problem with the player profiles PRIOR to free agency. This had nothing to do with “Manipulating the market to inflate bids”. That was YOUR beef.
BAF- 2020 Champs | 2021 2k Champs
Image
PG- Trae Young
SG- Klay Thompson
SF- Jarred Vanderbilt
PF- Giannis Antetokounmpo
C- Wendell Carter Jr.
Bench Mob: Powell, Hachimura, McConnell, Monk, Knecht, Collins
HEZI
RealGM
Posts: 43,542
And1: 29,687
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
 

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#562 » by HEZI » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:19 pm

Capn'O wrote:
HEZI wrote:You also can't punish bad teams in free agency more than they already are with the rankings. It's not realistic. Free Agents irl don't just sign with teams because they are good. Are we going to start factoring in "Wife and family happiness" or "coach and player relatonship" "GM and player relationship", etc? I mean different players choose their destinations based on different factors so it's impossible to replicate that to irl. It's fine the way it is.


Also, they all want to live in LA :dontknow:


And Miami :lol:
DENVER NUGGETS
Jamal Murray/Ty Jerome/Dante Exum
Zach Lavine/Ochai Agbaji/Corey Kispert
Aaron Gordon/Josh Okogie/Javonte Green
Jakob Poeltl/Moussa Diabate/Karlo Matkovic
Ivica Zubac/Nick Richards/Oscar Tshiebwe
User avatar
2010
RealGM
Posts: 37,630
And1: 42,880
Joined: Jul 24, 2008
       

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#563 » by 2010 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:19 pm

Manhattan Project wrote:I still think making a sub forum on the Knicks board is the easiest way to go for BAF in general. For example we can have threads in free agency, that lets everyone know the bids, the time stamps and all Bish would have to do is look at that instead of going through a million PM's. This allows people to see whose bidding to take away from "bad faith" bids and adds a little more strategy because every single dollar could be accounted for. This is only a problem for those GM's who don't want other teams to know what their bidding.

I think we learned a lot from this free agency to build something better and easier for Bish.


I said repeatedly that if teams are gonna play keep away the remedy is to remove private bids. So you know I am feeling this.

Another change I'm strongly in agreement with is a minimum amount of bids per day per GM. With GM's holding bird rights on players able to place one more bid over the minimum than teams who do not. Force mfkrs to prioritize and only bid on players they actually want or risk losing other players on the market (or their own).

No more bad faith bidding!!!

However, I am firmly against going back to releasing players in tiers over days. Hell no. Keep them all being released at once. Also, say NO to minimum bids on player tiers as well!

Minimum PUBLIC bids per GM per day is the answer. Not minimum bids on the player.

Bish's workload will be reduced if you follow the aforementioned model and bad faith shenanigans from herbs will be curbed.
Image

2024 & 2025 Bubble Champions (Repeat)

1: White | Nembhard | Smart
2: Sharpe | Wallace | Clark
3: Thompson | Dort | Rupert
4: Wembanyama | Green | Bol
5: Gobert | Drummond | Mamukelashvili
User avatar
Smash3
RealGM
Posts: 12,783
And1: 9,982
Joined: Apr 17, 2009

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#564 » by Smash3 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:22 pm

Before we make bids public we should explore other ways to reduce Bish workload. Public bids will only inflate all the players salaries, teams will see players going for cheap and just increase the bid – for $1 players as well as players like Dinwiddie/Ibaka.

We all agree on reducing Bish workload but public bids will change the dynamics of the whole FA process.
8
G: James Harden | Kris Dunn
G: Bradley Beal | Josh Richardson
F: Paul George | Svi Mykhailiuk
F: Neemias Queta| Daniel Theis
C: Nikola Vucevic | Bismack Biyombo
NewEra
RealGM
Posts: 16,147
And1: 13,856
Joined: Oct 11, 2007

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#565 » by NewEra » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:23 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
HEZI wrote:You also can't punish bad teams in free agency more than they already are with the rankings. It's not realistic. Free Agents irl don't just sign with teams because they are good. Are we going to start factoring in "Wife and family happiness" or "coach and player relatonship" "GM and player relationship", etc? I mean different players choose their destinations based on different factors so it's impossible to replicate that to irl. It's fine the way it is.


agreed the nets got better and KD and Kyrie went there...there 2 or 3 years before that didn't play that much of a role on them signing there. It what they did recently.

It can't be just hey this team has been good for 5 straight years they get every benefit. I agree they deserve there due and past history does play a part in FA. The only team that really got screwed for being a good team was GS...but he was in such a unique situation where the team he won it with was totally gone.

Fore example if he kept Westbrook and a few guys he wouldn't have taken a "star" player hit or a happiness hit. He choose extra cap space over the ratings. But that was New Era choice. He still came out pretty good so I don't think the rating system is off its how bish manages the bids...that is why the public sub forum and google docs seems to be a decent solution in my eyes.

I wasn’t going to keep Westbrook for the sake of a ranking. I won a chip, but Russ underperformed in many ways. I was going to do what was best for my team.
BAF- 2020 Champs | 2021 2k Champs
Image
PG- Trae Young
SG- Klay Thompson
SF- Jarred Vanderbilt
PF- Giannis Antetokounmpo
C- Wendell Carter Jr.
Bench Mob: Powell, Hachimura, McConnell, Monk, Knecht, Collins
User avatar
Deeeez Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 49,386
And1: 55,391
Joined: Nov 12, 2004

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#566 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:24 pm

Biggest issue seems to be there is just too many pm's for bish and it creates a backlog and delay.

Kinda to take something from NewEra's proposal....could possibly release free agents by rating or something like this:

Day 1: 5 Star
Day 3: 4 Star
Day 5: 3 Star
Day 7: 2 star
Day 9: 1 star and undrafted free agents
Mavs
C: Horford | Goga | Paul Reed |
PF: Lauri Markkanen | Randle | Tucker
SF: Trey Murphy | Trent | Anderson | Simone
SG: Vassell | Trent | Livingston
PG: Spida | Mann | Deuce
bringbackhoffa
RealGM
Posts: 14,277
And1: 5,105
Joined: Apr 18, 2007
     

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#567 » by bringbackhoffa » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:24 pm

Public bids could take rivalries to a whole new level lol
Charlotte Hornets


SGA
Ant Man/Tyler Herro
Dillon Brooks/Royce Oneil/Julian Champagnie
Domatas Sabonis/Cam Johnson
Mitch Robinson
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 96,117
And1: 137,865
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#568 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:26 pm

Smash3 wrote:Before we make bids public we should explore other ways to reduce Bish workload. Public bids will only inflate all the players salaries, teams will see players going for cheap and just increase the bid.

We all agree on reducing Bish workload but public bids will change the dynamics of the whole FA process.

I agree I rather see if we can do something else first but 2010 also just proposed we have minimum public bids per day. So this can actually reduce bad faith bids. If we go about public bids, I would go with 2010’s proposal.
Image
It’s like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain’t directed directly at me, I don’t respect it
User avatar
Capn'O
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 90,858
And1: 111,110
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Location: Bone Goal
 

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#569 » by Capn'O » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:27 pm

A tiered system of release kills Bird advantage. It is a non starter
BAF Clippers:
UNDER CONSTRUCTION - PLEASE INQUIRE WITHIN

:beer:
HEZI
RealGM
Posts: 43,542
And1: 29,687
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
 

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#570 » by HEZI » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:28 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Biggest issue seems to be there is just too many pm's for bish and it creates a backlog and delay.

Kinda to take something from NewEra's proposal....could possibly release free agents by rating or something like this:

Day 1: 5 Star
Day 3: 4 Star
Day 5: 3 Star
Day 7: 2 star
Day 9: 1 star and undrafted free agents


Star ratings change though. With the SIM being a year behind we really don't know star ratings until the SIM actually drops. This could become very controversial for bish if he lists players as certain star rating and then the SIM drops and that player has a different rating that year
DENVER NUGGETS
Jamal Murray/Ty Jerome/Dante Exum
Zach Lavine/Ochai Agbaji/Corey Kispert
Aaron Gordon/Josh Okogie/Javonte Green
Jakob Poeltl/Moussa Diabate/Karlo Matkovic
Ivica Zubac/Nick Richards/Oscar Tshiebwe
User avatar
Manhattan Project
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 39,532
And1: 8,224
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Location: The game ain't in me no more. None of it.

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#571 » by Manhattan Project » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:29 pm

Smash3 wrote:Before we make bids public we should explore other ways to reduce Bish workload. Public bids will only inflate all the players salaries, teams will see players going for cheap and just increase the bid.

We all agree on reducing Bish workload but public bids will change the dynamics of the whole FA process.


I think at the end of the day that's the most important thing, helping reduce Bish's workload. There's not going to be a process that every GM is going to love, especially if Bish continues as the one man running this. It would be another thing if he had help during free agency, but he doesn't at the moment. I don't know if public bids would inflate player salaries, I don't know if there would be a ton of GM's that are going to just throw in a bid just to raise the price on a player and risk getting caught with him. Teams played it smart this offseason going after some no frill brands of players and it led to some steals, but that's the risk if everyone just assumes someone else will bid.

The one thing that public bids does allow is to know where GM's stand with the up to the minute bids, gives them a little more flexibility because instead of waiting around for Bish to respond to a PM, they can possibly reallocate that money.
Jazz: Under reconstruction, we'll be back.
C- Maluach l Jackson l Hayes
PF- Okongwu l Newell l Salaun
SF- Wiggins l Bryant l McNeeley
SG- Thomas l Sexton l Okogie
PG- Murray l Collier l Dillingham
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 113,370
And1: 117,730
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#572 » by mpharris36 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:29 pm

NewEra wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
HEZI wrote:You also can't punish bad teams in free agency more than they already are with the rankings. It's not realistic. Free Agents irl don't just sign with teams because they are good. Are we going to start factoring in "Wife and family happiness" or "coach and player relatonship" "GM and player relationship", etc? I mean different players choose their destinations based on different factors so it's impossible to replicate that to irl. It's fine the way it is.


agreed the nets got better and KD and Kyrie went there...there 2 or 3 years before that didn't play that much of a role on them signing there. It what they did recently.

It can't be just hey this team has been good for 5 straight years they get every benefit. I agree they deserve there due and past history does play a part in FA. The only team that really got screwed for being a good team was GS...but he was in such a unique situation where the team he won it with was totally gone.

Fore example if he kept Westbrook and a few guys he wouldn't have taken a "star" player hit or a happiness hit. He choose extra cap space over the ratings. But that was New Era choice. He still came out pretty good so I don't think the rating system is off its how bish manages the bids...that is why the public sub forum and google docs seems to be a decent solution in my eyes.

I wasn’t going to keep Westbrook for the sake of a ranking. I won a chip, but Russ underperformed in many ways. I was going to do what was best for my team.



Agreed and personally I think you did make the right choice even though your ratings weren't as good you were able to distribute the money better. But moving everyone on your roster does have an effect on ratings, it has to. You can't be like hey look I'm so good I won a championship (you are a very good GM btw :wink: ) look at my history. And then someone says but your team doesn't look like a championship team so just trust me. That is just speculation and bish can only judge you at the the time of FA starting along with other categories which you got a high ranking from history.

I agree history should be a part, but I think you are arguing history should weight more...which I disagree...I think they all should be equally evaluated. Past is important and future is important as well.
4-Peat! 22-25 BAF Champion Spurs:

ROSTER

Walker Kessler/Daniel Gafford/Adem Bona
Nikola Jokic/Santi Aldama/Isaiah Stewart
Aaron Nesmith/Josh Hart/Jaime Jaquez
Alex Caruso/Keon Ellis/Justin Champagnie
Steph Curry/Chris Paul/Ryan Rollins
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 113,370
And1: 117,730
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#573 » by mpharris36 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:30 pm

Capn'O wrote:A tiered system of release kills Bird advantage. It is a non starter


agreed no way does a tier system work. It needs to be everyone.

That I 100% agree.

It would give two many swing advantages. It would be unrealistic.
4-Peat! 22-25 BAF Champion Spurs:

ROSTER

Walker Kessler/Daniel Gafford/Adem Bona
Nikola Jokic/Santi Aldama/Isaiah Stewart
Aaron Nesmith/Josh Hart/Jaime Jaquez
Alex Caruso/Keon Ellis/Justin Champagnie
Steph Curry/Chris Paul/Ryan Rollins
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 96,117
And1: 137,865
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#574 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:31 pm

HEZI wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
HEZI wrote:You also can't punish bad teams in free agency more than they already are with the rankings. It's not realistic. Free Agents irl don't just sign with teams because they are good. Are we going to start factoring in "Wife and family happiness" or "coach and player relatonship" "GM and player relationship", etc? I mean different players choose their destinations based on different factors so it's impossible to replicate that to irl. It's fine the way it is.


Also, they all want to live in LA :dontknow:


And Miami :lol:

Can’t forget about Cleveland
Image
It’s like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain’t directed directly at me, I don’t respect it
Slicin N Dicin
Veteran
Posts: 2,606
And1: 2,276
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
       

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#575 » by Slicin N Dicin » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:33 pm

I think we all/majority agree:

No tiered release - all players released on same day

Public bidding/Sub-forum/Google Doc is looking to be a consensus. It looks to be the most feasible way to reduce Bish's workload without overhauling FA as much. I think the public bidding will reduce some of those "bad faith bids" that people mention and will help everyone see in realtime where players and their $$ stand
BaF 1.0 - Bucks: Inaugural BaF Champs 2018

It's Been Real BaF!

Check out the No Blood No Foul Podcast below with your boys from Real GM:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWW9GUVpNULS97PyptXXU4w
User avatar
Deeeez Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 49,386
And1: 55,391
Joined: Nov 12, 2004

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#576 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:33 pm

Capn'O wrote:A tiered system of release kills Bird advantage. It is a non starter


Could put in a provision to delay the official paper work to meet the timing? :lol:

That part is actually realistic as teams do that irl.
Mavs
C: Horford | Goga | Paul Reed |
PF: Lauri Markkanen | Randle | Tucker
SF: Trey Murphy | Trent | Anderson | Simone
SG: Vassell | Trent | Livingston
PG: Spida | Mann | Deuce
HEZI
RealGM
Posts: 43,542
And1: 29,687
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
 

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#577 » by HEZI » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:34 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
Also, they all want to live in LA :dontknow:


And Miami :lol:

Can’t forget about Cleveland


DENVER NUGGETS
Jamal Murray/Ty Jerome/Dante Exum
Zach Lavine/Ochai Agbaji/Corey Kispert
Aaron Gordon/Josh Okogie/Javonte Green
Jakob Poeltl/Moussa Diabate/Karlo Matkovic
Ivica Zubac/Nick Richards/Oscar Tshiebwe
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 113,370
And1: 117,730
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#578 » by mpharris36 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:35 pm

Slicin N Dicin wrote:I think we all/majority agree:

No tiered release - all players released on same day

Public bidding/Sub-forum/Google Doc is looking to be a consensus. It looks to be the most feasible way to reduce Bish's workload without overhauling FA as much. I think the public bidding will reduce some of those "bad faith bids" that people mention and will help everyone see in realtime where players and their $$ stand


agreed I am also NOT in favor in limiting someone bids per day. Say someone has a couple major FA and the bidding is fast a furious that day. They end up losing out and they were all good faith bids...but then they can't pivot to another bid later in the day?

If the bids are public we wont have to worry about bish work load we would just have to make aware there was a process where every GM knew how to properly make a winning bid. That way the onus is on us and bish just have to verify time stamps and announce winning bids...a lot easier that doing all the inquiries and submitting bids himself.
4-Peat! 22-25 BAF Champion Spurs:

ROSTER

Walker Kessler/Daniel Gafford/Adem Bona
Nikola Jokic/Santi Aldama/Isaiah Stewart
Aaron Nesmith/Josh Hart/Jaime Jaquez
Alex Caruso/Keon Ellis/Justin Champagnie
Steph Curry/Chris Paul/Ryan Rollins
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 96,117
And1: 137,865
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#579 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:38 pm

HEZI wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
HEZI wrote:
And Miami :lol:

Can’t forget about Cleveland



:lol: Never gets old
Image
It’s like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain’t directed directly at me, I don’t respect it
Slicin N Dicin
Veteran
Posts: 2,606
And1: 2,276
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
       

Re: BaF Season 4 Offseason- Final offseason discussion thread? 

Post#580 » by Slicin N Dicin » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:39 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Slicin N Dicin wrote:I think we all/majority agree:

No tiered release - all players released on same day

Public bidding/Sub-forum/Google Doc is looking to be a consensus. It looks to be the most feasible way to reduce Bish's workload without overhauling FA as much. I think the public bidding will reduce some of those "bad faith bids" that people mention and will help everyone see in realtime where players and their $$ stand


agreed I am also NOT in favor in limiting someone bids per day. Say someone has a couple major FA and the bidding is fast a furious that day. They end up losing out and they were all good faith bids...but then they can't pivot to another bid later in the day?

If the bids are public we wont have to worry about bish work load we would just have to make aware there was a process where every GM new how to properly make a winning bid. That was the onus is on us and bish just have to verify time stamps and announce winning bids...a lot easier that doing all the inquiries and submitting bids himself.


I agree with you on the first part, we shouldn't limit the amount of bids people make, it will potentially hurt people making bids in good faith. Updated list, idk if it helps people to see it all mapped out with the suggestions:


No tiered release - all players released on same day

Public bidding/Sub-forum/Google Doc

No limit on bids per day
BaF 1.0 - Bucks: Inaugural BaF Champs 2018

It's Been Real BaF!

Check out the No Blood No Foul Podcast below with your boys from Real GM:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWW9GUVpNULS97PyptXXU4w

Return to New York Knicks