BaF Season 4- Opening Night 12/1- (Announcement page 57)

[3toheadmelo]

Bro, what is this serious offer you keep saying? You can't say you advocate for people getting steals in FA and then keep repeating "make a serious offer" when the steals people are getting are sometimes not a "serious offer"


Again - I can make a serious offer on multiple players and still get beat. Then you're punished by not being able to make another bid on a player because your "serious offer" got beat.

You can't just keep repeating "make a serious offer" over and over again to try and prove your point my dude and not acknowledging the fact that as long as you have the cap space and bid more than what a player is currently priced at, it's a serious offer. And you can't punish people for trying to make as many offers on free agents as possible to put their teams in the best situation.

Ok example. If you want to take Tatum from me then you’ll need to offer 600/4 years. That’s a serious offer.You guys just want to make bull schit offers and go up by $1 increments for the whole day wasting everybody’s time. So again make serious offers and you’ll get your players.

Also you want to talk about punishing people when in fact you want to remove the bird rights advantage we have.

Still making no sense and trying to get rid of steals. Yeah i agree going up by $1 increments is stupid sometimes and I even tell that to bish in my bids sometimes where i don't want to get into $1 bidding wars...but it's free market. If the winning bid is $600 and i only need to offer $601 to beat it...then why offer anything more? We are only limited to a certain $$ amount to spend so you have to maximize each and every dollar. don't see how that's hard to comprehend. You don't like it? Sure, no one wants to get into a $1 increment bidding war (funny cause we did the same **** with Tatum in the original draft so you've been there too) but it's common sense....why spend more money when you don't have to especially when we're capped with a certain amount of money to spend


On the bold part?? what are you talking about, when have i ever said anything about removing birds right advantage...are you talking to someone else?

So go for 601 or you can’t get him. My point is that don’t expect to make a weak offer like $100/4 years and then cry about losing one of ur minimum bids cause you didn’t get Tatum. It’s not that hard.

Anyways this all might be moot anyways cause bish just proposed an idea of having a freeze period for PM’s. I would just go with that.

[Context]

2010’s proposal was that bird rights holders get to exceed the minimum bids amount

In two years everyone will have bird rights on their own guys, that's not applicable for that year. It's going to be absolute madness, no way around it if we keep the current system. If Bish is already saying that this free agency was tough for him, you know some changes need to be implemented.

I'll say this about this past FA process.

I knew that FA this year was going to be more challenging then the past couple of offseasons due to the number of quality FA's and also because of the number of teams with cap space. I scheduled FA to start on a Sunday this year because I generally have Sunday-Monday off from work and I knew I would need to be around my computer more than usual. Saying that, I literally never left my laptop for more that ten minutes that first Sunday from 12PM-1AM. Monday was not much different. I received 369 PM's those first two days. For the most part, each PM received means I'm sending out two PM's (one as a reply to the sender and one to the GM who held the previous high bid telling them their bid was beat). As soon as 12PM hit I was flooded with 25+ PM's. Like I said, I was online for basically 13 hours straight and constantly clearing offers/PMs. But each time I cleared one, two more were waiting for me, lol. It got to the point pretty quickly that I was answering PM's sent two hours earlier. So, I will say that there were not any last minute bids that I can think of off the top of my head. It just got flooded with offers that I was two hours behind on.

I only bring it up because if that was the case this year, two years from now will be that much worse if we don't tweak things. I really don't think it needs to be anything major. Maybe just something as simple as putting a break in the middle of the day. Like bids are allowed from 12-5 and then from 7-12. The clock would stop during the two hour freeze which would allow me to catch up and keep everything on track. Or just make the day go from 6AM-10PM instead of midnight. FA was basically wrapped up after day three this year. Maybe something that drags it out a little more is all that is needed rather than radical changes that are being discussed. Public bids, max bids per day, etc...all things that will drastically change the system that for the most part, has worked pretty well IMO.

I think thats your solution. I do not think you should change anything else related to the process.
I think maybe you should improve on your ratings system a bit because no franchise who has been in the playoffs and won a chip should be rated with tank teams. Unlike real life- in BAF you can complete many trades- so a team that has a proven track recorded should be given the benefit of the doubt.

[mpharris36]

Imagine Bish had the answer the whole time

Just let there be a window for freeze on bids/PMs each day so the man can get some sleep!!!

Easiest solution imo. Scrolling through this thread is like scrolling through the Art of War.

Can't keep up with all these long proposals. I'm going with this one

I think if we decided to stay private bidding. This is the only scenario that makes sense. Time slot bidding where bish can update the offers at that point. Then we know if we are winning or not and have the next time slot to bid on the same guy or different guys if we don't want to go up that far.

If you want to limit inquiries though the team can be private but the $ value would have to be public. Otherwise if that is still private im not sure bish can still even handle that especially during the 2022 FA class. Even with freezes that would still be ridiculous to handle for 1 person and it would last for so much longer because bids for certain players would go on for days and weeks later with longer freeze times.

[3toheadmelo]

I don't think max bids per day is necessary but I would also question the idea of allowing bids to be placed publicly by the GM's. Just from a realistic and maybe insiders viewpoint, there are many bids placed throughout the course of the day which are illegal. What happens if a team places a bid that is illegal (puts them over the cap, no roster spot, etc)? The domino effect to that could really screw up the entire FA.

For example, team 1 places a bid on player A that is illegal. It is publicly out there and then team 2 comes along and "beats" that offer. Now they are paying more than they needed to or should based on the fact that team 1 placed an illegal bid. How would the league ensure that all of the public bids being placed by GM's work?

Public bids just seem too complicated all together. Has too many flaws. Better off keeping them private

thats fine I am all for keeping them private...but if they are private that still means bish has to do everything. That was the reason FA was brought up to eliminate having him to do everything.

I know you say then just have him do less but limiting bids...that just sways the bidding way too much.

If we are keeping it private I am for more time slot bidding and letting a certain period bish be able to catch up with bids during designated times that he knows he can go through PM's without having to worry about also answering PM's at the same time.

That I think is the only solution if you want to keep bidding private.

No tiers and no limiting the amount of bids that sways FA way too much.

Yes a freeze period is what I would do. No major changes in free agency and less arguments.

[Slicin N Dicin]

Ok example. If you want to take Tatum from me then you’ll need to offer 600/4 years. That’s a serious offer.You guys just want to make bull schit offers and go up by $1 increments for the whole day wasting everybody’s time. So again make serious offers and you’ll get your players.

Also you want to talk about punishing people when in fact you want to remove the bird rights advantage we have.

Still making no sense and trying to get rid of steals. Yeah i agree going up by $1 increments is stupid sometimes and I even tell that to bish in my bids sometimes where i don't want to get into $1 bidding wars...but it's free market. If the winning bid is $600 and i only need to offer $601 to beat it...then why offer anything more? We are only limited to a certain $$ amount to spend so you have to maximize each and every dollar. don't see how that's hard to comprehend. You don't like it? Sure, no one wants to get into a $1 increment bidding war (funny cause we did the same **** with Tatum in the original draft so you've been there too) but it's common sense....why spend more money when you don't have to especially when we're capped with a certain amount of money to spend


On the bold part?? what are you talking about, when have i ever said anything about removing birds right advantage...are you talking to someone else?

So go for 601 or you can’t get him. My point is that don’t expect to make a weak offer like $100/4 years and then cry about losing one of ur minimum bids cause you didn’t get Tatum. It’s not that hard.

Anyways this all might be moot anyways cause bish just proposed an idea of having a freeze period for PM’s. I would just go with that.

So then we were talking about two different things essentially, make a realistic offer sure..if you tried to make a lowball offer and see if you can get away with a "steal" and used up one of your bids that's on you. But my point was, I just don't think we should enact a min # of bids in general because you could have 5 or 6 players you're in legitimate bidding wars with.

But like you said, it's moot because Bish solved the issue potentially with the freeze. Probably the simplest of solutions - saves him time without changing the dynamics.

[mpharris36]

Public bids just seem too complicated all together. Has too many flaws. Better off keeping them private

thats fine I am all for keeping them private...but if they are private that still means bish has to do everything. That was the reason FA was brought up to eliminate having him to do everything.

I know you say then just have him do less but limiting bids...that just sways the bidding way too much.

If we are keeping it private I am for more time slot bidding and letting a certain period bish be able to catch up with bids during designated times that he knows he can go through PM's without having to worry about also answering PM's at the same time.

That I think is the only solution if you want to keep bidding private.

No tiers and no limiting the amount of bids that sways FA way too much.

Yes a freeze period is what I would do. No major changes in free agency and less arguments.

agreed I think that gives bish more time to in theory "catch up". It doesn't solve everything but keeps FA the same.

My only issue is that Bish still has to deal with inquiries. That seems like more of a hassle and time consuming then actually having to submit official bids.

Could you imagine the amount of inquiries in the 2022 FA class with everyone having cap space and all the best players available. Seems like even with freezes that will be too much for one person to handle.

[bringbackhoffa]

But we are looking at a free agency class with 3 times the players we had this summer. Wont there be many more PMs given the number of free agents, and many more players with bird rights with teams with bird rights making many inquiries throughout the day on how high the bid is on their bird right player? If you say your not allowed inquiries there is nothing stopping someone like me making a 50 dollar offer to Ingram just to see what the high bid is.

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[mpharris36]

Bish would just have to comment on the inquiries and how time consuming that is. Because you can still keep teams private but if you publicized the year and dollar value of the highest bid that eliminates having to ask bish everytime how much a guy costs.

My guess is that is more time consuming then actually getting the actual bid.

If he can handle that with freezes with the 2022 FA class looming which will be death for him. Then we probably can maintain the exact same with just more Freezes along the way for him.

[3toheadmelo]

Still making no sense and trying to get rid of steals. Yeah i agree going up by $1 increments is stupid sometimes and I even tell that to bish in my bids sometimes where i don't want to get into $1 bidding wars...but it's free market. If the winning bid is $600 and i only need to offer $601 to beat it...then why offer anything more? We are only limited to a certain $$ amount to spend so you have to maximize each and every dollar. don't see how that's hard to comprehend. You don't like it? Sure, no one wants to get into a $1 increment bidding war (funny cause we did the same **** with Tatum in the original draft so you've been there too) but it's common sense....why spend more money when you don't have to especially when we're capped with a certain amount of money to spend


On the bold part?? what are you talking about, when have i ever said anything about removing birds right advantage...are you talking to someone else?

So go for 601 or you can’t get him. My point is that don’t expect to make a weak offer like $100/4 years and then cry about losing one of ur minimum bids cause you didn’t get Tatum. It’s not that hard.

Anyways this all might be moot anyways cause bish just proposed an idea of having a freeze period for PM’s. I would just go with that.

So then we were talking about two different things essentially, make a realistic offer sure..if you tried to make a lowball offer and see if you can get away with a "steal" and used up one of your bids that's on you. But my point was, I just don't think we should enact a min # of bids in general because you could have 5 or 6 players you're in legitimate bidding wars with.

But like you said, it's moot because Bish solved the issue potentially with the freeze. Probably the simplest of solutions - saves him time without changing the dynamics.

Steals would still be in play. Cause a lot of people aren’t keeping their players that have bird rights. It happened this free agency. And then there’s gonna be players that’s getting waived. Like how we saw with Wall, Draymond Green, Barnes etc. That’s how I look at it.

Freeze period seems like the best solution though.

[bringbackhoffa]

I like the idea of a spread sheet with a range given on what the high offer is so teams could just look at that rather than asking bish what the high bid is.

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[3toheadmelo]

thats fine I am all for keeping them private...but if they are private that still means bish has to do everything. That was the reason FA was brought up to eliminate having him to do everything.

I know you say then just have him do less but limiting bids...that just sways the bidding way too much.

If we are keeping it private I am for more time slot bidding and letting a certain period bish be able to catch up with bids during designated times that he knows he can go through PM's without having to worry about also answering PM's at the same time.

That I think is the only solution if you want to keep bidding private.

No tiers and no limiting the amount of bids that sways FA way too much.

Yes a freeze period is what I would do. No major changes in free agency and less arguments.

agreed I think that gives bish more time to in theory "catch up". It doesn't solve everything but keeps FA the same.

My only issue is that Bish still has to deal with inquiries. That seems like more of a hassle and time consuming then actually having to submit official bids.

Could you imagine the amount of inquiries in the 2022 FA class with everyone having cap space and all the best players available. Seems like even with freezes that will be too much for one person to handle.

If bish thinks he can handle it with freeze periods then I would just go with that. Anything else would just change the whole dynamics of free agency.

[mpharris36]

Yes a freeze period is what I would do. No major changes in free agency and less arguments.

agreed I think that gives bish more time to in theory "catch up". It doesn't solve everything but keeps FA the same.

My only issue is that Bish still has to deal with inquiries. That seems like more of a hassle and time consuming then actually having to submit official bids.

Could you imagine the amount of inquiries in the 2022 FA class with everyone having cap space and all the best players available. Seems like even with freezes that will be too much for one person to handle.

If bish thinks he can handle it with freeze periods then I would just go with that. Anything else would just change the whole dynamics of free agency.

I agree I just find that difficult. We had what like 3-4 teams with major cap space this year and it was already too much early on for bish to handle.

Now times that by 10...because all 30 teams will most likely have over $500 in cap space. I know most teams will probably be keeping tabes on all the best players in FA.

That is a LOT to ask.

[mpharris36]

I like the idea of a spread sheet with a range given on what the high offer is so teams could just look at that rather than asking bish what the high bid is.

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I think people are underestimating the sh*t show of what 2022 FA will be. There were like 3-4 teams with major cap space this offseason and some good FA's but not amazing FA's and it still was way too much for bish.

Multiply this offseason **** by 10 because every single team will most likely have +500 in cap space. I don't see physically how one man even with designated "freeze" periods will be able to handle that load.

[3toheadmelo]

agreed I think that gives bish more time to in theory "catch up". It doesn't solve everything but keeps FA the same.

My only issue is that Bish still has to deal with inquiries. That seems like more of a hassle and time consuming then actually having to submit official bids.

Could you imagine the amount of inquiries in the 2022 FA class with everyone having cap space and all the best players available. Seems like even with freezes that will be too much for one person to handle.

If bish thinks he can handle it with freeze periods then I would just go with that. Anything else would just change the whole dynamics of free agency.

I agree I just find that difficult. We had what like 3-4 tams with major cap space this year and it was already too much early on for bish to handle.

Now times that by 10...because all 30 teams will most likely have over $500 in cap space. I know most teams will probably be keeping tabes on all the best players in FA.

That is a LOT to ask.

I wouldn’t mind if we had certain days off where he could just organize everything. Give him as much time as he needs.

[mpharris36]

If bish thinks he can handle it with freeze periods then I would just go with that. Anything else would just change the whole dynamics of free agency.

I agree I just find that difficult. We had what like 3-4 tams with major cap space this year and it was already too much early on for bish to handle.

Now times that by 10...because all 30 teams will most likely have over $500 in cap space. I know most teams will probably be keeping tabes on all the best players in FA.

That is a LOT to ask.

I wouldn’t mind if we had certain days off where he could just organize everything. Give him as much time as he needs.

yeah agreed it would have to be like a freeze day in between bidding days where you could only inquire about players an bish could update who signed.

Like one bidding day

Then off day (where bish updates and only answers about inquiries about where a player high bid is).

Only way I see private bidding working with the massive FA class in 2022. But bish is superman so who knows

[3toheadmelo]

I agree I just find that difficult. We had what like 3-4 tams with major cap space this year and it was already too much early on for bish to handle.

Now times that by 10...because all 30 teams will most likely have over $500 in cap space. I know most teams will probably be keeping tabes on all the best players in FA.

That is a LOT to ask.

I wouldn’t mind if we had certain days off where he could just organize everything. Give him as much time as he needs.

yeah agreed it would have to be like a freeze day in between bidding days where you could only inquire about players an bish could update who signed.

Like one bidding day

Then off day (where bish updates and only answers about inquiries about where a player high bid is).

Only way I see private bidding working with the massive FA class in 2022. But bish is superman so who knows

Yes something like that. Alternating days or something should work. I think this is the best solution imo.

[bringbackhoffa]

I agree I just find that difficult. We had what like 3-4 tams with major cap space this year and it was already too much early on for bish to handle.

Now times that by 10...because all 30 teams will most likely have over $500 in cap space. I know most teams will probably be keeping tabes on all the best players in FA.

That is a LOT to ask.

I wouldn’t mind if we had certain days off where he could just organize everything. Give him as much time as he needs.

yeah agreed it would have to be like a freeze day in between bidding days where you could only inquire about players an bish could update who signed.

Like one bidding day

Then off day (where bish updates and only answers about inquiries about where a player high bid is).

Only way I see private bidding working with the massive FA class in 2022. But bish is superman so who knows

did you read that long proposal that another GM sent bish , what if you were to take some parts of that and apply it? Like at the end of day 1 bidding if the team with bird rights has the highest offer they automatically re-sign their player. Incentivize teams with bird rights to come out with a strong offer to their bird right player and lock them up and move on to securing other players rather than being dragged out in a bidding war (aka what we saw with booker this year)

[mpharris36]

I wouldn’t mind if we had certain days off where he could just organize everything. Give him as much time as he needs.

yeah agreed it would have to be like a freeze day in between bidding days where you could only inquire about players an bish could update who signed.

Like one bidding day

Then off day (where bish updates and only answers about inquiries about where a player high bid is).

Only way I see private bidding working with the massive FA class in 2022. But bish is superman so who knows

did you read that long proposal that another GM sent bish , what if you were to take some parts of that and apply it? Like at the end of day 1 bidding if the team with bird rights has the highest offer they automatically re-sign their player. Incentivize teams with bird rights to come out with a strong offer to their bird right player and lock them up and move on to securing other players rather than being dragged out in a bidding war (aka what we saw with booker this year)

I don't like anything with tiers in it. So I didn't like the proposal. All the FA should be out at once...we tried the tiers on the original draft and it was silly IMO.

And the bird rights thing is just odd. Whats stopping a team with bird rights waiting all day not bidding once to keep there player as low as possible then sending a bid in last second to have the highest bid for the day and they win because they are a bird rights team?

Nah bird right teams should still have the same time delay to sign someone as anyone else. They get the benefit of the 5th year..there shouldn't be any more than that.

[bishnykfan]

I like the idea of a spread sheet with a range given on what the high offer is so teams could just look at that rather than asking bish what the high bid is.

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Our initial draft had this aspect. Each player looked like this:

LeBron James has been offered a contract. It will now take a: $400/5, $440/4 or $480/3 contract to beat his current offer.

The reason we can't do this now is because each team has different numbers for what is needed to beat the current leading bid. So, not sure of how I could keep a spread sheet updated for 29 teams on 100+ players.

[bringbackhoffa]

yeah agreed it would have to be like a freeze day in between bidding days where you could only inquire about players an bish could update who signed.

Like one bidding day

Then off day (where bish updates and only answers about inquiries about where a player high bid is).

Only way I see private bidding working with the massive FA class in 2022. But bish is superman so who knows

did you read that long proposal that another GM sent bish , what if you were to take some parts of that and apply it? Like at the end of day 1 bidding if the team with bird rights has the highest offer they automatically re-sign their player. Incentivize teams with bird rights to come out with a strong offer to their bird right player and lock them up and move on to securing other players rather than being dragged out in a bidding war (aka what we saw with booker this year)

I don't like anything with tiers in it. So I didn't like the proposal. All the FA should be out at once...we tried the tiers on the original draft and it was silly IMO.

And the bird rights thing is just odd. Whats stopping a team with bird rights waiting all day not bidding once to keep there player as low as possible then sending a bid in last second to have the highest bid for the day and they win because they are a bird rights team?

Nah bird right teams should still have the same time delay to sign someone as anyone else. They get the benefit of the 5th year..there shouldn't be any more than that.

thats a 2 way street though, it forces opposing teams to also submit legit offers just so it is a tough decision for the bird right team