BaF Season 4- Opening Night 12/1- (Announcement page 57)

[3toheadmelo]

The opposing argument is that I specifically didn't inquire about certain players for the sole reason that I didn't want to burden Bish. There was abundant information that I wanted but didn't ask about for that reason.

Bish said the inquires isn’t that bad though. He said not much teams do it. It’s really the amount of bids that’s killing him. That’s what the freezing period is supposed to help him with.

But that was inquiries from only a handful of teams with cap space. Imagine a summer with 30 teams with close to max space and keeping tabs on their bird right players. You could see teams asking bish 2 or 3 times a day what the high bid is on their bird right player

Why ask? Just submit a bid and he’ll tell you what you need to beat it.

[3toheadmelo]

The opposing argument is that I specifically didn't inquire about certain players for the sole reason that I didn't want to burden Bish. There was abundant information that I wanted but didn't ask about for that reason.

Bish said the inquires isn’t that bad though. He said not much teams do it. It’s really the amount of bids that’s killing him. That’s what the freezing period is supposed to help him with.

however he did agree with my post that he assumes inquiries will go way up as the league will have everyone with a ton of money. I think the reason this whole situation was brought up because 2022 FA will be like no other.

If it was we would just keep everything the same.

Bish just said he doesn’t like the public idea at all cause it takes away from the free agency experience which I completely agree with and thinks the freezing periods is a good idea. So let’s just go with that instead of over complicating things.

[bringbackhoffa]

Bish said the inquires isn’t that bad though. He said not much teams do it. It’s really the amount of bids that’s killing him. That’s what the freezing period is supposed to help him with.

But that was inquiries from only a handful of teams with cap space. Imagine a summer with 30 teams with close to max space and keeping tabs on their bird right players. You could see teams asking bish 2 or 3 times a day what the high bid is on their bird right player

Why ask? Just submit a bid and he’ll tell you what you need to beat it.

yea but i could just make a $1/4 offer to Ingram and he would then have to take time out and send me a message telling me what the high bid is, pretty much the same as an inquiry. If i knew publicly it would take $250+ for Ingram then no need to send in that PM and one less for Bish to respond to early on with those tier 1 free agents.

[El Poochio]

Guise I think I figured it out operational research is my profession making processes better is what we do

WARNING - THIS WONT DECREASE BISH'S WORK BUT WILL MOVE IT TO HIS OWN TIME AND DECISION OF HOW LONG HE WANTS TO TAKE, SOME VIEWERS MAY FIND THE CONTENT DISTURBING AND CONTROVERSIAL

Teams will send their bids to all the players they like to sign to Bish in private before a set deadline listing ONLY THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT THEY ARE WILLING TO GO TO SIGN THE SAID PLAYER

Example:

1. New Orleans Pelicans
Kelly Oubre $40/5
Bogdan Bogdanovic $40/5
Giorgios Papagiannis $10/1

This means Kelly Oubre is a high priority signing for New Orleans, because of this THEY STILL CAN GET HIM FOR $1/5. How? $40 is the max amount they are willing to pay, but Bish starts by putting Kelly Oubre in New Orleans for $1/5 and Pelicans will get him for that amount AS LONG AS NO ONE ELSE BID, NOR ANYONE HAVE ENOUGH CAP SPACE AND ROSTER SPOT. After Bish allocates Oubre to Pelicans for $1/5, he moves on TO THE NEXT TEAM

2. Indiana Pacers
Luka Doncic 200/4
Jamal Murray 30/3
Jamal Crawford 1/1

And places the first bid of Indiana and moves on to the 3rd team so and so forth (moving from team to team one player at a time, when all the teams are covered moving on to the next player listed on 1st team, New Orleans Pelicans' bids)

So what happens when two teams bid on the same player? A BIDDING WAR ENSUES, Bish checks on whose bid is higher and either keeps Kelly Oubre at New Orleans, beating the offer of another team thus CHANGING THE $1/5 SALARY ALREADY ALLOCATED or removes Kelly Oubre from New Orleans roster and puts him into his new destination WITH THE MINIMUM BID NEEDED TO BEAT PELICANS (as long as the said offer was higher than Pelicans)

With the removal of Kelly Oubre from New Orleans books, or with the change in their offer Bish now moves on to the second player listed on New Orleans' bids, whether Bish was looking at 15TH LISTED TEAM'S 5TH LISTED BID OR 30TH TEAM'S 2ND BID HE MOVES BACK TO THE START OF 1ST LISTED TEAM'S 2ND BID thus he now moves on to look back to 2nd listed team, Indiana Pacers, making his way back from start

Feels like this could be done by coding so are there any coders out there? Otherwise Bish could take like 3 months to process FA, which is fine imo in an empty summer but people get too impatient

The changes here from previous years would be ROSTERS WILL BE FROZEN during free agency and the tricky part: teams will COMMIT BEFOREHAND HOW MANY YEARS THEY WANT TO SIGN THE PLAYER REGARDLESS OF AMOUNT

Obviously no need for this when the number of players hitting free agency is manageable, so this could be only activated in 2022 FA or like in original draft 4 years ago

Ideally the order of teams for me would be from worst to best in standings, ie the team finished 30th would actually have the first dibs on players with 1st team as last, keeping in with NBA's draft system to keep parity, but this will encourage losing on purpose even more, so the order would need to be from best to worst or in accordance to FA rankings, maybe this will actually help curtail tanking?

[Capn'O]

Pooch is onto something. Great reimagining.

[El Poochio]

If you think current FA system doesnt have problems, you havent been paying attention

There is no reason a team with $500 in cap space should not sign Tatum just cuz they missed out on signing Devin Booker

[Smash3]

or maybe just do a range for the tier 1 free agents, im assuming we can agree their likely will not be any steals on the 4 star plus players?

Lowry, Wall, Dinwiddie and LMA are probably 4-star players that went for cheap

[3toheadmelo]

But that was inquiries from only a handful of teams with cap space. Imagine a summer with 30 teams with close to max space and keeping tabs on their bird right players. You could see teams asking bish 2 or 3 times a day what the high bid is on their bird right player

Why ask? Just submit a bid and he’ll tell you what you need to beat it.

yea but i could just make a $1/4 offer to Ingram and he would then have to take time out and send me a message telling me what the high bid is, pretty much the same as an inquiry. If i knew publicly it would take $250+ for Ingram then no need to send in that PM and one less for Bish to respond to early on with those tier 1 free agents.

Nah. Making it public changes the whole free agency and bish has said he does not like that idea. Just go with the freezing periods. If bish still has problems with that then we can try something else.

[bringbackhoffa]

or maybe just do a range for the tier 1 free agents, im assuming we can agree their likely will not be any steals on the 4 star plus players?

Lowry, Wall, Dinwiddie and LMA are probably 4-star players that went for cheap

Lowry was 3 stars, wall was 3.5 stars, and Dinwiddie was either 2 or 2.5 stars. Lma was the only 4 star player and no one indicated him being a top contract this off season

[bringbackhoffa]

Yea let's see how freezing periods play out next year, maybe we can have boston buy out some more top players to enhance the pool a bit more...

[Smash3]

Guise I think I figured it out operational research is my profession making processes better is what we do

WARNING - THIS WONT DECREASE BISH'S WORK BUT WILL MOVE IT TO HIS OWN TIME AND DECISION OF HOW LONG HE WANTS TO TAKE, SOME VIEWERS MAY FIND THE CONTENT DISTURBING AND CONTROVERSIAL

Teams will send their bids to all the players they like to sign to Bish in private before a set deadline listing ONLY THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT THEY ARE WILLING TO GO TO SIGN THE SAID PLAYER

Example:

1. New Orleans Pelicans
Kelly Oubre $40/5
Bogdan Bogdanovic $40/5
Giorgios Papagiannis $10/1

This means Kelly Oubre is a high priority signing for New Orleans, because of this THEY STILL CAN GET HIM FOR $1/5. How? $40 is the max amount they are willing to pay, but Bish starts by putting Kelly Oubre in New Orleans for $1/5 and Pelicans will get him for that amount AS LONG AS NO ONE ELSE BID, NOR ANYONE HAVE ENOUGH CAP SPACE AND ROSTER SPOT. After Bish allocates Oubre to Pelicans for $1/5, he moves on TO THE NEXT TEAM

2. Indiana Pacers
Luka Doncic 200/4
Jamal Murray 30/3
Jamal Crawford 1/1

And places the first bid of Indiana and moves on to the 3rd team so and so forth (moving from team to team one player at a time, when all the teams are covered moving on to the next player listed on 1st team, New Orleans Pelicans' bids)

So what happens when two teams bid on the same player? A BIDDING WAR ENSUES, Bish checks on whose bid is higher and either keeps Kelly Oubre at New Orleans, beating the offer of another team thus CHANGING THE $1/5 SALARY ALREADY ALLOCATED or removes Kelly Oubre from New Orleans roster and puts him into his new destination WITH THE MINIMUM BID NEEDED TO BEAT PELICANS (as long as the said offer was higher than Pelicans)

With the removal of Kelly Oubre from New Orleans books, or with the change in their offer Bish now moves on to the second player listed on New Orleans' bids, whether Bish was looking at 15TH LISTED TEAM'S 5TH LISTED BID OR 30TH TEAM'S 2ND BID HE MOVES BACK TO THE START OF 1ST LISTED TEAM'S 2ND BID thus he now moves on to look back to 2nd listed team, Indiana Pacers, making his way back from start

Feels like this could be done by coding so are there any coders out there? Otherwise Bish could take like 3 months to process FA, which is fine imo in an empty summer but people get too impatient

The changes here from previous years would be ROSTERS WILL BE FROZEN during free agency and the tricky part: teams will COMMIT BEFOREHAND HOW MANY YEARS THEY WANT TO SIGN THE PLAYER REGARDLESS OF AMOUNT

Obviously no need for this when the number of players hitting free agency is manageable, so this could be only activated in 2022 FA or like in original draft 4 years ago

Ideally the order of teams for me would be from worst to best in standings, ie the team finished 30th would actually have the first dibs on players with 1st team as last, keeping in with NBA's draft system to keep parity, but this will encourage losing on purpose even more, so the order would need to be from best to worst or in accordance to FA rankings, maybe this will actually help curtail tanking?

Pooch thinking outside the box as usual, I like it. Basically teams have to decide how high they are willing to go on a player right away instead of many pm’s of incremental increases. If no one is bidding on your player you can still get the steal too.

[El Poochio]

I like the idea of an open and transparent free agency out in forum too anything that makes free agency and bidding less random and timing dependent is better imo even though I enjoy the excitement of randomness and mini strategies develop during FA

We can also always go back to players released one at a time by lists like in our previous auctions some people werent happy with it but they must see now releasing all the players at the same time in a big FA like in 2 years is unreasonable, it turns into a sort of different mini game where you make decisions to wait or strike but it was exciting nevertheless with luck involved

[El Poochio]

Guise I think I figured it out operational research is my profession making processes better is what we do

WARNING - THIS WONT DECREASE BISH'S WORK BUT WILL MOVE IT TO HIS OWN TIME AND DECISION OF HOW LONG HE WANTS TO TAKE, SOME VIEWERS MAY FIND THE CONTENT DISTURBING AND CONTROVERSIAL

Teams will send their bids to all the players they like to sign to Bish in private before a set deadline listing ONLY THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT THEY ARE WILLING TO GO TO SIGN THE SAID PLAYER

Example:

1. New Orleans Pelicans
Kelly Oubre $40/5
Bogdan Bogdanovic $40/5
Giorgios Papagiannis $10/1

This means Kelly Oubre is a high priority signing for New Orleans, because of this THEY STILL CAN GET HIM FOR $1/5. How? $40 is the max amount they are willing to pay, but Bish starts by putting Kelly Oubre in New Orleans for $1/5 and Pelicans will get him for that amount AS LONG AS NO ONE ELSE BID, NOR ANYONE HAVE ENOUGH CAP SPACE AND ROSTER SPOT. After Bish allocates Oubre to Pelicans for $1/5, he moves on TO THE NEXT TEAM

2. Indiana Pacers
Luka Doncic 200/4
Jamal Murray 30/3
Jamal Crawford 1/1

And places the first bid of Indiana and moves on to the 3rd team so and so forth (moving from team to team one player at a time, when all the teams are covered moving on to the next player listed on 1st team, New Orleans Pelicans' bids)

So what happens when two teams bid on the same player? A BIDDING WAR ENSUES, Bish checks on whose bid is higher and either keeps Kelly Oubre at New Orleans, beating the offer of another team thus CHANGING THE $1/5 SALARY ALREADY ALLOCATED or removes Kelly Oubre from New Orleans roster and puts him into his new destination WITH THE MINIMUM BID NEEDED TO BEAT PELICANS (as long as the said offer was higher than Pelicans)

With the removal of Kelly Oubre from New Orleans books, or with the change in their offer Bish now moves on to the second player listed on New Orleans' bids, whether Bish was looking at 15TH LISTED TEAM'S 5TH LISTED BID OR 30TH TEAM'S 2ND BID HE MOVES BACK TO THE START OF 1ST LISTED TEAM'S 2ND BID thus he now moves on to look back to 2nd listed team, Indiana Pacers, making his way back from start

Feels like this could be done by coding so are there any coders out there? Otherwise Bish could take like 3 months to process FA, which is fine imo in an empty summer but people get too impatient

The changes here from previous years would be ROSTERS WILL BE FROZEN during free agency and the tricky part: teams will COMMIT BEFOREHAND HOW MANY YEARS THEY WANT TO SIGN THE PLAYER REGARDLESS OF AMOUNT

Obviously no need for this when the number of players hitting free agency is manageable, so this could be only activated in 2022 FA or like in original draft 4 years ago

Ideally the order of teams for me would be from worst to best in standings, ie the team finished 30th would actually have the first dibs on players with 1st team as last, keeping in with NBA's draft system to keep parity, but this will encourage losing on purpose even more, so the order would need to be from best to worst or in accordance to FA rankings, maybe this will actually help curtail tanking?

Pooch thinking outside the box as usual, I like it. Basically teams have to decide how high they are willing to go on a player right away instead of many pm’s of incremental increases. If no one is bidding on your player you can still get the steal too.

You wont be able to release players during FA (only beforehand in preparation) so steals will still be there if teams fill up all their roster spots, and not everyone will send bids in like inactive teams GMs so you can get anyone as long as you care enough to send bids in

[SOUL]

I'm going to disagree on FA working "well". It went okay. I voiced my concern in thread and this isn't a complaint levied at bish at all (just more of it being a burden for him), but it did affect who I targeted. I think the overall "essence" of free agency worked and it can't be perfect, but I think not knowing my bid was beat for 4 hours while other bids expired is a huge issue.

For example, I planned on bidding on Joe Harris who went for $30 if I couldn't get Gallo, who I was supposed to win at 6:08 a.m., and I wasn't aware of my bid being "lost" until almost 10:00 a.m. That's almost 4 hours of bidding of players that expired from 6:00 to 10:00 a.m. that I didn't bid on because I thought I didn't have the money available but I did.

[3toheadmelo]

I'm going to disagree on FA working "well". It went okay. I voiced my concern in thread and this isn't a complaint levied at bish at all (just more of it being a burden for him), but it did affect who I targeted. I think the overall "essence" of free agency worked and it can't be perfect, but I think not knowing my bid was beat for 4 hours while other bids expired is a huge issue.

For example, I planned on bidding on Joe Harris who went for $30 if I couldn't get Gallo, who I was supposed to win at 6:08 a.m., and I wasn't aware of my bid being "lost" until almost 10:00 a.m. That's almost 4 hours of bidding of players that expired from 6:00 to 9:00 a.m. that I didn't bid on because I thought I didn't have the money available but I did.

That’s where the freezing periods coming in. Bish can use that time to catch up on everything and we wouldn’t be getting updates on players so late

[SOUL]

Also @bish, I made a copy of the automated system I used for one of the ones I ran (on Google Drive). If you are interested I can PM you and show you how it works and edit it in so it reflects our league's rosters eventually if you want to use it for 2021/2022 or not. This particular league has public FA so it's a bit different but obviously makes it easier in private as well or if we make a switch or whatever. LMK.

[bishnykfan]

I'll have to look a bit closer at Pooch's idea when I get a chance tonight.

As far as the freezes go, what I'm thinking is something along the lines of open bidding from 6AM-10AM. Then a freeze from 10-12 where everything is caught up on my end. Open bidding from 12-4 then a freeze from 4-6. Finally open bidding from 6-10 and the freeze goes into effect at 10PM rather than midnight and lasts until 6AM. Assuming that there will be a ton of bids those first 3-4 days something like this will be necessary. Obviously this will drag out FA for at least a few days which IMO is not a bad thing and it may need to be tweaked depending on my work schedule etc. But those changes can be made known well in advance.

No one should lose a player during these times. I was consistently 2 hours behind on PM's not leaving the computer that first day of FA. I'm expecting two years from now to be worse. Allowing 12 hours of bidding time/6 hours of catch up time with three two hour breaks throughout those first couple of days will be necessary in order to allow all teams to know where they stand closer to real time.

[mpharris36]

hey fellas I already put together a quick file that I think would be cool. Have to finish up a bit of work but will put it out on google docs soon so you can see.

This would obviously be a public bid type scenario but as Cap was saying this would allow everyone to know what they would need to beat bids with.

I will give you a few small details when I share but thought it was cool to mess around. This is by no means a full proof system but figured I share what I was thinking in my head.

[SOUL]

hey fellas I already put together a quick file that I think would be cool. Have to finish up a bit of work but will put it out on google docs soon so you can see.

This would obviously be a public bid type scenario but as Cap was saying this would allow everyone to know what they would need to beat bids with.

I will give you a few small details when I share but thought it was cool to mess around. This is by no means a full proof system but figured I share what I was thinking in my head.

Nice!

I posted this last time but edited it since it was in the middle of FA but if bish wants to use something like this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1y11w8YSUkTW-BfpNsPhOkGHWzGmg1hPEm0iHhyUqBr0/edit#gid=1702349806

A team simply adds a number under the player they want on the right side "ex: 20 under Ian Clark" and it changes them to the bid leader. You also put what time you put the bid time in (10:00 am) and it automatically creates a time end for bid (this is for 4 hours but I think it can be messed with to make it 6 or whatever customized time), so in that case, it goes to 2:00 pm.

[El Poochio]

hey fellas I already put together a quick file that I think would be cool. Have to finish up a bit of work but will put it out on google docs soon so you can see.

This would obviously be a public bid type scenario but as Cap was saying this would allow everyone to know what they would need to beat bids with.

I will give you a few small details when I share but thought it was cool to mess around. This is by no means a full proof system but figured I share what I was thinking in my head.

Bish gonna put the bids in there or we? If it is us eliminates the FA ranking since we wouldnt know how our offers weight against other teams