Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

[MasterGMer]

Now the most interesting news in the NBA is Harden and Westbrook are uncertain of the future of Rockets. Harden was rumored to be discontent with the new HC and has been silent to the Rockets Franchise for two weeks.

Now on the Rockets side, they let go Mike Antoni and GM Morey to be a sign of rebuild.

BTW It would take a ton to entice Houston to trade for Harden. But it is not impossible. Should draft picks and young players do it? Or only players like Ben Simmons will do it?

[basketballRob]

Now the most interesting news in the NBA is Harden and Westbrook are uncertain of the future of Rockets. Harden was rumored to be discontent with the new HC and has been silent to the Rockets Franchise for two weeks.

Now on the Rockets side, they let go Mike Antoni and GM Morey to be a sign of rebuild.

BTW It would take a ton to entice Houston to trade for Harden. But it is not impossible. Should draft picks and young players do it? Or only players like Ben Simmons will do it?

The owner of the Rockets is a restauranteur and probably lost a fortune this year.

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[Xatticus]

Read a report from a league executive that said "Chuma Okeke would go top 5 in the years draft" and wasn't really gloating about how Okeke was this all grand player, but how weak this draft is.

When I think about it I may agree, if Toppin is considered the consensus #5 pick then there may be actually legs to that bold statement because I think I easily draft Okeke with all things considered before Toppin.

I say conservatively hes a top 6-9 pick though.

You actually bring up a good topic for discussion.

Seeing Okeke's last playing year and knowing he is HEALTHY already, where do you guys put him up in this drat year? Is his performance worthy of being top-5 with his competition? ( Ball, Wiseman, Edwards)

He isn't top 3. I would guess he would be picked in the middle of the first round again, but it would really just depend on the preferences of the teams. Would some teams prefer him to Vassell or Haliburton? I suppose. Would he be picked ahead of them? Probably not. You are looking at solid team defenders with limited offensive upside for comps.

I think he is similar to Tyler Bey in appeal. Okeke has a better shot. For Bey you are projecting his pick-and-pop game. With Okeke, it is already there. Both can attack a closeout, but Bey is significantly more athletic in his finishing and draws a lot more fouls. He is the better rebounder as well. Bey is the more versatile defender. Okeke is better in the post. Both are good help defenders. I think Bey will be better covering wings, but Okeke is better at defending bigger guys.

I like the Bey comp versus someone like Okoro due to age. Okeke was old for a sophomore. Okoro is two-and-a-half years younger. I'd liken Okoro to Gordon. He is smaller than Gordon, but otherwise they were similar as prospects.

[RookieStar]

Read a report from a league executive that said "Chuma Okeke would go top 5 in the years draft" and wasn't really gloating about how Okeke was this all grand player, but how weak this draft is.

When I think about it I may agree, if Toppin is considered the consensus #5 pick then there may be actually legs to that bold statement because I think I easily draft Okeke with all things considered before Toppin.

I say conservatively hes a top 6-9 pick though.

You actually bring up a good topic for discussion.

Seeing Okeke's last playing year and knowing he is HEALTHY already, where do you guys put him up in this drat year? Is his performance worthy of being top-5 with his competition? ( Ball, Wiseman, Edwards)

He isn't top 3. I would guess he would be picked in the middle of the first round again, but it would really just depend on the preferences of the teams. Would some teams prefer him to Vassell or Haliburton? I suppose. Would he be picked ahead of them? Probably not. You are looking at solid team defenders with limited offensive upside for comps.

I think he is similar to Tyler Bey in appeal. Okeke has a better shot. For Bey you are projecting his pick-and-pop game. With Okeke, it is already there. Both can attack a closeout, but Bey is significantly more athletic in his finishing and draws a lot more fouls. He is the better rebounder as well. Bey is the more versatile defender. Okeke is better in the post. Both are good help defenders. I think Bey will be better covering wings, but Okeke is better at defending bigger guys.

I like the Bey comp versus someone like Okoro due to age. Okeke was old for a sophomore. Okoro is two-and-a-half years younger. I'd liken Okoro to Gordon. He is smaller than Gordon, but otherwise they were similar as prospects.

Well yeah he isn't Top-3... Top 5 thought? Would you pick the projected Vassell,Toppin, williams ahead of Okeke?

[Magicfanatic82]

Dont understand people wanting Russ on our team when we have Fultz.
Fultz. - Westbrook
6'4 6'9w - 6'3 6'8w
22 years old 32
12.3 mil 41.3 (132 over 3years)
19/20
.465 Fg .472
.267 3% .258
.730 ft .763
12.1 points 27.2
3.3 reb 7.9
5.1 ast 7
1.3 stl 1.6
2 to 4.5

I can see Fultz improving with higher usage/responsibility while Russ's game isnt gonna age well. Russ is a career .305 3pt shooter.

[j-ragg]

Dont understand people wanting Russ on our team when we have Fultz.
Fultz. - Westbrook
6'4 6'9w - 6'3 6'8w
22 years old 32
12.3 mil 41.3 (132 over 3years)
19/20
.465 Fg .472
.267 3% .258
.730 ft .763
12.1 points 27.2
3.3 reb 7.9
5.1 ast 7
1.3 stl 1.6
2 to 4.5

I can see Fultz improving with higher usage/responsibility while Russ's game isnt gonna age well. Russ is a career .305 3pt shooter.

Has anyone been saying we should get Russ? I haven’t seen it. I think he’s one of the most difficult players in the league to move. No way I’d give anything of value for him (or take on his money at all).

[dsg2021]

Now the most interesting news in the NBA is Harden and Westbrook are uncertain of the future of Rockets. Harden was rumored to be discontent with the new HC and has been silent to the Rockets Franchise for two weeks.

Now on the Rockets side, they let go Mike Antoni and GM Morey to be a sign of rebuild.

BTW It would take a ton to entice Houston to trade for Harden. But it is not impossible. Should draft picks and young players do it? Or only players like Ben Simmons will do it?

He's a young LBJ with little jumpshot ability. You have to take him for Harden, if you're HOU and Westbrook wants out. Because no way in hell Harden stays with Westbrook gone. Idk, maybe if the return was amazing in on-court value. Like ORL giving up all of its vets and three 1sts to have Harden with no one, and Harden gone very soon.

[jjohns828]

Dont understand people wanting Russ on our team when we have Fultz.
Fultz. - Westbrook
6'4 6'9w - 6'3 6'8w
22 years old 32
12.3 mil 41.3 (132 over 3years)
19/20
.465 Fg .472
.267 3% .258
.730 ft .763
12.1 points 27.2
3.3 reb 7.9
5.1 ast 7
1.3 stl 1.6
2 to 4.5

I can see Fultz improving with higher usage/responsibility while Russ's game isnt gonna age well. Russ is a career .305 3pt shooter.

Has anyone been saying we should get Russ? I haven’t seen it. I think he’s one of the most difficult players in the league to move. No way I’d give anything of value for him (or take on his money at all).

It's mostly fans of other teams on the Trades and Transactions board saying it makes sense for us.

[sChOlaRlY_Magi]

:Can someone who has followed the rise and apparent fall of Westbrook tell me realistically why he has been so dismissed as a player after averaging a triple double for 3 straight years. The follow up would be why wouldn't a lot of middling teams (like ours) be tripping over themselves trying to land him?

I get the contract, and I've heard on this board the trash talk about him, but wouldn't he still be far above our best player, and a good mental mentor to someone like Fultz? I mean he single handedly made Dipo's star take off from what I recall.

So, can someone please explain what the deal is with him?

*Edit - copied this from another thread as it was more OT on there.*

[fendilim]

:Can someone who has followed the rise and apparent fall of Westbrook tell me realistically why he has been so dismissed as a player after averaging a triple double for 3 straight years. The follow up would be why wouldn't a lot of middling teams (like ours) be tripping over themselves trying to land him?

I get the contract, and I've heard on this board the trash talk about him, but wouldn't he still be far above our best player, and a good mental mentor to someone like Fultz? I mean he single handedly made Dipo's star take off from what I recall.

So, can someone please explain what the deal is with him?

*Edit - copied this from another thread as it was more OT on there.*

I think much of it is because he puts up empty stats.

Still, I think he’d give our team a new lease of life, we likely wont win with him but at least it will be fun to watch.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Russ to Orlando is similar to CP3 to Phoenix or vice versa with CP3 to OKC (last season).

Both Orlando and Phoenix have decent starting point guards already that they have invested in.

Both Orlando and Phoenix are fringe playoff teams.

Both Orlando and Phoenix share the same mentality in regards to bringing an older more established vet on board to raise the ceiling of our current roster.

Both Orlando and Phoenix could never land this type of player in free agency.

The only difference is that both Phoenix and OKC already have up and coming stars in Shai and Booker, we have.....Vucevic lol and our rising "star" is out this entire season.

I like the Fultz/Westbrook mentorship and think that holds value, but Westbrook is too vocal and isn't like Vuc in regards to being okay with losing consistently day in and day out. It would become a real distraction and eventually another Houston/OKC situation.

BUT from a business standpoint, it may actually make a lot of sense. Let's pinpoint what Westbrook to Orlando does business-wise.

- More than likely propels us to a 5-8 playoff team (playoffs means money)
- More television views = money
- More season ticket purchases
- Jersey sells

IF we can trade for him not using real valuable assets then I could get behind the reasoning. For this example let's say Houston agrees to the following.

Westbrook

for

Evan Fournier
Terrence Ross
Al Farouq Aminu
#45

Orlando is left with the following roster (with the assumption we bring back our guys in Iwundu, Clark, MCW, Ennis)

We may can be in a position to nab Malik Beasley at a below market value contract if Minnesota doesn't want to deal with the baggage. We can use our full or partial of our MLE to get him?

Probably go after Maxey or Hampton at #15

Our 2021-2022 roster

Westbrook/Fultz/MCW
Beasley/Hampton
Ennis/Okeke/Iwundu
Gordon/Clark/*Isaac
Vucevic/Bamba/Birch


and in Houston's defense they recoup some value from Westbrook and receive quality vets that provide depth and fits around Harden. Also gives them tangible moveable contracts for future trades.

Harden
Fournier/Ross
Gordon/Aminu
Covington/Tucker
Ibaka?

Thoughts?

[Def Swami]

Westbrook just turned 32 and makes $41 million, $44 million, and $47 million over the next 3 years. And he's literally saying he wants to hijack the offense. This might make more sense for another team, but not for us. This is a huge stay away for me.

[rcklsscognition]

Interesting the Raptors may play all season in Tampa.

[Def Swami]

Read on Twitter

[VFX]

The one time this FO decides to make a move...and it’s going to be for Russell Westbrook???

I’ll believe it when I see it. That’s the most far fetched thing I could imagine.

[jonbob17]

Read a report from a league executive that said "Chuma Okeke would go top 5 in the years draft" and wasn't really gloating about how Okeke was this all grand player, but how weak this draft is.

When I think about it I may agree, if Toppin is considered the consensus #5 pick then there may be actually legs to that bold statement because I think I easily draft Okeke with all things considered before Toppin.

I say conservatively hes a top 6-9 pick though.

John Hollinger and Chad Ford did a redraft of 2019 yesterday and they had Chuma at #9, basically by not playing he moved up.

For as bad as everybody makes the 2020 draft to be, outside the top 2 last year, the 2019 draft was pretty awful. Of course they were all rookies, and that may also be a good reason for us to temper our expectations of Okeke, but it was a bad first year for a lot of those guys.

[pepe1991]

Read a report from a league executive that said "Chuma Okeke would go top 5 in the years draft" and wasn't really gloating about how Okeke was this all grand player, but how weak this draft is.

When I think about it I may agree, if Toppin is considered the consensus #5 pick then there may be actually legs to that bold statement because I think I easily draft Okeke with all things considered before Toppin.

I say conservatively hes a top 6-9 pick though.

John Hollinger and Chad Ford did a redraft of 2019 yesterday and they had Chuma at #9, basically by not playing he moved up.

For as bad as everybody makes the 2020 draft to be, outside the top 2 last year, the 2019 draft was pretty awful. Of course they were all rookies, and that may also be a good reason for us to temper our expectations of Okeke, but it was a bad first year for a lot of those guys.

This is one of main reasons why i have zero interest in moving assets for picks only. Garland, Hunter, Culver , Reddish, Cam Johnson,Langford, Šamanić, NAW, Bitadze. All top 20 picks. All irrelevant in rookie year.

[VFX]

Read a report from a league executive that said "Chuma Okeke would go top 5 in the years draft" and wasn't really gloating about how Okeke was this all grand player, but how weak this draft is.

When I think about it I may agree, if Toppin is considered the consensus #5 pick then there may be actually legs to that bold statement because I think I easily draft Okeke with all things considered before Toppin.

I say conservatively hes a top 6-9 pick though.

John Hollinger and Chad Ford did a redraft of 2019 yesterday and they had Chuma at #9, basically by not playing he moved up.

For as bad as everybody makes the 2020 draft to be, outside the top 2 last year, the 2019 draft was pretty awful. Of course they were all rookies, and that may also be a good reason for us to temper our expectations of Okeke, but it was a bad first year for a lot of those guys.

This is one of main reasons why i have zero interest in moving assets for picks only. Garland, Hunter, Culver , Reddish, Cam Johnson,Langford, Šamanić, NAW, Bitadze. All top 20 picks. All irrelevant in rookie year.

Rookies are usually irrelevant...

Only bonafide stars are making large impacts their rookie seasons. Even in that case, they have to be in a good situation to notice.

[basketballRob]

I personally don't like watching Harden or Westbrook.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

John Hollinger and Chad Ford did a redraft of 2019 yesterday and they had Chuma at #9, basically by not playing he moved up.

For as bad as everybody makes the 2020 draft to be, outside the top 2 last year, the 2019 draft was pretty awful. Of course they were all rookies, and that may also be a good reason for us to temper our expectations of Okeke, but it was a bad first year for a lot of those guys.

This is one of main reasons why i have zero interest in moving assets for picks only. Garland, Hunter, Culver , Reddish, Cam Johnson,Langford, Šamanić, NAW, Bitadze. All top 20 picks. All irrelevant in rookie year.

Rookies are usually irrelevant...

Only bonafide stars are making large impacts their rookie seasons. Even in that case, they have to be in a good situation to notice.

There is some difference between being somewhat decent in rookie year on limited playing time, or being like Frank Ntilikina or Josh Jackson. Where after 1 year you had to ask yourself " is this guy ever going to work in nba " ?

I mean, Malik Monk, Dennis Smith and Frank Ntilikina are 22 years old players. Former sky-high lottery picks. is there any reason for their teams to still save their cap space, roster spot and developmental hopes in them ? Not really.

But most of them are like Lonzo or Fultz. Overhyped on start, dogged by fans later due unjustified hype, with current projection to be average players for rest of their careers.
And those are yours former 1# and 2# pick that were projected to be more athletic Harden and Curry with 40 inch vertical