The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason

[nzahir]

I honestly have no clue what the Lakers would be thinking here. Bad on offense, bad on defense, old, mentally fragile, expensive.

Danny Green alone is more valuable in my opinion.

Derozan is 2 years younger than DG
Derozan is a much better offensive player than both Kuzma and DG combined
Derozan is less mentally fragile than DG

I am not even a DD fan, but not for those few reasons

He is a bad 3 point shooter and a poor defender

We are also losing 2 of our wing defenders, and possibly KCP, not a fan unless we can figure out a way to get another 2 wing defenders

If we can do that, I am fine with it

He is an ELITE iso scorer who can create for himself and others

[Greyhound]

I honestly have no clue what the Lakers would be thinking here. Bad on offense, bad on defense, old, mentally fragile, expensive.

Danny Green alone is more valuable in my opinion.

I agree with you 100%.

DeRozan makes zero sense alongside LeBron or Rondo.

If Rondo returns, just think off all the good times an early season Rondo, DeRozan, LeBron lineup will provide.

DeRozan for Green and Kuzma will be a fail by Pelinka. The “rumor” sounds like slow news day in the NBA BS to me, so I am hoping that is all it is.

[kayess]

The DeRozan trade would be absolutely horrible. Agree that Green alone would be more valuable.

Kieff's defense was adequate. I think people are letting Butler's results cloud what actually happened. He hit a ton of short fadeaways and a bunch of tough shots at the rim that were by no means gimmes vs. Kieff

Other free agent updates for the Lakers? Rondo, Dwight trying to come back?

[Greyhound]

I honestly have no clue what the Lakers would be thinking here. Bad on offense, bad on defense, old, mentally fragile, expensive.

Danny Green alone is more valuable in my opinion.

Derozan is 2 years younger than DG
Derozan is a much better offensive player than both Kuzma and DG combined
Derozan is less mentally fragile than DG

I am not even a DD fan, but not for those few reasons

He is a bad 3 point shooter and a poor defender

We are also losing 2 of our wing defenders, and possibly KCP, not a fan unless we can figure out a way to get another 2 wing defenders

If we can do that, I am fine with it

He is an ELITE iso scorer who can create for himself and others

He is not.

DeRozan is literally the poster child for mentally fragile.

I rather have Green. He is a proven champion that teams still commit a man to on the perimeter. DeRozan will not only disappear when the pressure is on, but teams will leave him wide open to collapse the interior on LeBron and AD.

No thanks.

[nzahir]

Say we go ahead with this deal? What other moves should/could we make?

Good guard and forward defenders who are possibly available for the mle and bae:

Wes Matthews
Milsap
Harkless
Justin Holiday
Torrey Craig (RFA I think)

Missing any more?

I would hope we could bring back KCP on a 1 yr larger deal
If we brought in DD, Rondo is not useful

Mcgee or Cook would be in this deal for salary reasons

Would use the left over guy and our 1st for another wing defender

A stretch big like Ibaka is probably not realistic

[nzahir]

I honestly have no clue what the Lakers would be thinking here. Bad on offense, bad on defense, old, mentally fragile, expensive.

Danny Green alone is more valuable in my opinion.

Derozan is 2 years younger than DG
Derozan is a much better offensive player than both Kuzma and DG combined
Derozan is less mentally fragile than DG

I am not even a DD fan, but not for those few reasons

He is a bad 3 point shooter and a poor defender

We are also losing 2 of our wing defenders, and possibly KCP, not a fan unless we can figure out a way to get another 2 wing defenders

If we can do that, I am fine with it

He is an ELITE iso scorer who can create for himself and others

He is not.

DeRozan is literally the poster child for mentally fragile.

I rather have Green. He is a proven champion that teams still commit a man too on the perimeter. DeRozan will not only disappear when the pressure is on, but teams will leave him wide open to collapse the interior on LeBron and AD.

No thanks.

Except he is

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation/?sort=FGM&dir=1
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives/?sort=DRIVES&dir=1

Elite in drives and iso's

Not like DG could even hit his open shots

His team d is still very good, which is why I am iffy on this, but I want to see if there are options to replace him

Wes Matthews is an option who was a very good defender this year and usually is one

If we could sign Wes and get DD to replace Kuzma, DG, and Mcgee/Cook, I think I would be in

[Greyhound]

Derozan is 2 years younger than DG
Derozan is a much better offensive player than both Kuzma and DG combined
Derozan is less mentally fragile than DG

I am not even a DD fan, but not for those few reasons

He is a bad 3 point shooter and a poor defender

We are also losing 2 of our wing defenders, and possibly KCP, not a fan unless we can figure out a way to get another 2 wing defenders

If we can do that, I am fine with it

He is an ELITE iso scorer who can create for himself and others

He is not.

DeRozan is literally the poster child for mentally fragile.

I rather have Green. He is a proven champion that teams still commit a man too on the perimeter. DeRozan will not only disappear when the pressure is on, but teams will leave him wide open to collapse the interior on LeBron and AD.

No thanks.

Except he is

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation/?sort=FGM&dir=1
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives/?sort=DRIVES&dir=1

Elite in drives and iso's

Not like DG could even hit his open shots

His team d is still very good, which is why I am iffy on this, but I want to see if there are options to replace him

Wes Matthews is an option who was a very good defender this year and usually is one

If we could sign Wes and get DD to replace Kuzma, DG, and Mcgee/Cook, I think I would be in

DeRozan is good at getting to the basket and creating separation for iso pull ups.

For the Lakers (however) I prefer Danny Green’s bow legged corner threes. Whether he is making it or not, defenses play him honest out of fear of his streak hot shooting capabilities.

That benefits the team as well.

[Doctor MJ]

I honestly have no clue what the Lakers would be thinking here. Bad on offense, bad on defense, old, mentally fragile, expensive.

Danny Green alone is more valuable in my opinion.

Yeah, the performance of the Lakers last year makes me give LeBron some benefit of the doubt about who he can play with, but DeRozan is not who I'd be looking to add to the team, and whoever's idea this is, I question whether they are falling prey to the idea of "Well he's just better than these other guys!" that so often comes into play when people imagine acquiring volume scorers.

[Jordan Syndrome]

I actually like the fit of DeRozan on the Lakers. Put me into the category of "Smart players figure it out".

[Doctor MJ]

I actually like the fit of DeRozan on the Lakers. Put me into the category of "Smart players figure it out".

Put me in the category of "Smart perimeter players figured out they should be shooting 3's while DeRozan was a minor".

[Lakers LeBron]

It's definitely mostly mental, but physically he played a full playoff run + two weeks of games. At his age/mileage it certainly would allow him to go harder in the RS if there was more time off.

I could see him being more rested from having a limited break given how hard guys like him go training in the offseason

It will be interesting to see how it turns because I think there are a pretty wide range of outcomes. Most NBA players bulk up in the offseason and then lose weight over the course of the season because it's hard to get enough calories between the constant travel and all the calories you burn playing games and working out

LeBron has done the opposite for the past several years. He cuts weight aggressively in the offseason and then gains weight and strength over the course of the season. It's one reason why on opening night LeBron often looks like he's aged 5 years in the four months since the finals. So we'll see with the short break if LeBron tries to maintain his level fitness in the finals or if he cuts weight again

[Jordan Syndrome]

I actually like the fit of DeRozan on the Lakers. Put me into the category of "Smart players figure it out".

Put me in the category of "Smart perimeter players figured out they should be shooting 3's while DeRozan was a minor".

Smart players like Jimmy Butler?

It is worth noting Demar has been moving closer to the rim which is a move in the right direction given his game. His corner 3 was at 40% this season, a move in the right direction.

[Doctor MJ]

I actually like the fit of DeRozan on the Lakers. Put me into the category of "Smart players figure it out".

Put me in the category of "Smart perimeter players figured out they should be shooting 3's while DeRozan was a minor".

Smart players like Jimmy Butler?

It is worth noting Demar has been moving closer to the rim which is a move in the right direction given his game. His corner 3 was at 40% this season, a move in the right direction.

Touche. It's certainly true that Butler has found a way to consistently add value that his team misses when he's on the bench, or on his next team. Part of my snark here is that DeRozan's track record of his team doing best when he's not on the floor is kind of legendary. I wouldn't be looking to add a poor man's LeBron like Butler to LeBron's team even though I'd be confident he'd find a way to add value. Considerably harder for me to see adding DeRozan into the mix.

I will say I do get using DeRozan as your lead bench scorer, and if you're fine DeRozan's salary to a bench guy, that could work, but in terms of that closing lineup, what exactly is DeRozan doing out there with LeBron & AD. Do you really need a guy clogging up space on the interior that you're relying on LeBron & AD to dominate? Don't you want more 3-point shooting, passing, and defense?

[Joey Wheeler]

Derozan's addition makes little difference in the sense that the Lakers would probably win the title easily anyway if Lebron and AD are fit, but honestly if I was the Lakers GM I'd not put anyone on the roster who isn't at least a neutral defender unless they're an amazing 3-point shooter.

With Lebron and AD on the roster, building is very easy, just make sure you don't have any guys on the floor that can be picked on in the playoffs and you're good.

[RCM88x]

Myles Turner should be the guy the Lakers are aiming for if he's available. Can give you freedom to pivot away from Javale and he's a decent floor spacer who would fit well with LeBron and AD I think.

Would unlikely he's on their radar or really any option for them but that's my 2¢.

[toodles23]

Put me in the category of "Smart perimeter players figured out they should be shooting 3's while DeRozan was a minor".

Smart players like Jimmy Butler?

It is worth noting Demar has been moving closer to the rim which is a move in the right direction given his game. His corner 3 was at 40% this season, a move in the right direction.

Touche. It's certainly true that Butler has found a way to consistently add value that his team misses when he's on the bench, or on his next team. Part of my snark here is that DeRozan's track record of his team doing best when he's not on the floor is kind of legendary. I wouldn't be looking to add a poor man's LeBron like Butler to LeBron's team even though I'd be confident he'd find a way to add value. Considerably harder for me to see adding DeRozan into the mix.

I will say I do get using DeRozan as your lead bench scorer, and if you're fine DeRozan's salary to a bench guy, that could work, but in terms of that closing lineup, what exactly is DeRozan doing out there with LeBron & AD. Do you really need a guy clogging up space on the interior that you're relying on LeBron & AD to dominate? Don't you want more 3-point shooting, passing, and defense?

I don't think Derozan would even be playable against good teams in the playoffs outside of leading bench units. He's an on-ball player who's not a good passer and can be played like Westbrook when he's off ball, so it makes zero sense to ever have him on the court with Lebron. He's also a terrible defender that can be picked on, which as we know can be a death sentence for teams in the crucible of the playoffs.

Lebron fans of all people should be fully aware of how easily he can be turned into a liability on both ends of the floor in the playoffs, we saw the Cavs mercilessly exploit him three years in a row targeting him for mismatches and letting him chuck terrible contested iso jumpers. He was -71 overall in the six game 2016 series, -66 in the 2017 sweep, and -74 in the 2018 sweep, and that was back when he was in his late 20s. It would be an *incredibly* stupid trade if the went ahead with it, 2015 Rondo to the Mavs type dumb.

[trickshot]

He won’t be.

Vogel values defense to close (above all else). Markieff has been given a bum wrap because he struggled against Butler a couple of games in the Finals. Truth is, he played adequate defense (overall) and he was a valuable reserve in the Lakers title run.

I value the toughness (and goon deterrence) that Markieff brings over all that Gallo provides. If he can be had at a reasonable cost, I would rather stick with him.

Don’t mess with chemistry.

lmao, Kieff's defense was chit.

He, he, haha, it was not.

Context matters. Morris was adequate defensively alongside a big. Things got dicey when he was lining up at center (alongside Kuzma) in those dreaded second unit small ball lineups.

That having been said, regardless of how you viewed his defense, the toughness he brings to your team is a real thing. It’s something that you would rather have and not need, then need and not have.

Mademan is right. His team defense was actually awful. Man defense was below average but where he was particularly bad was weakside and offball D. People don't see it because no one really tunes into an nba game to watch the weakside but Kieff was always certain to cause a breakdown if he was there and he combined with Kuzma was a large part of why their 2nd/3rdish lineup of the game always brokedown defensively. (especially after the Houston series till the finals. Denver and Miami ran a lot off offball stuff he couldn't cope with)

[Dupp]

With DeRozan I believe he started shooting threes and when he went to the spurs he stopped. So I’d probably put that on pop.


Regardless he makes 27 mil a year. Not a good move.

[Doctor MJ]

With DeRozan I believe he started shooting threes and when he went to the spurs he stopped. So I’d probably put that on pop.

I don't let Pop off the hook, but clearly DeRozan has a resistance to shooting 3's that he can't blame anyone else for.

[RCM88x]

With DeRozan I believe he started shooting threes and when he went to the spurs he stopped. So I’d probably put that on pop.

I don't let Pop off the hook, but clearly DeRozan has a resistance to shooting 3's that he can't blame anyone else for.

Because he's bad at shooting them and a mental midget.

Pop knows this so probably doesn't force him to shoot them like Casey did. He probably had his most efficient scoring season last year but he's not good and defensively he's just terrible.