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2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

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If Suns get Chris Paul, who will be the 2nd leading scorer on the team?

Ayton
44
94%
Paul
3
6%
 
Total votes: 47

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3801 » by bwgood77 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:59 pm

BobbieL wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Jesus_H_Macy wrote:
"If you're going to spend everything on that new car" <-- That's a little scary... If Jones and Bower walk into a dealership and buy a decked-out Corvette do they not only pay sticker price but also take up the finance guy on all of his offers?


Yes, Presti, who got a ton of picks for George and a ton of picks swapping Westbrook for Paul, making a deal with 2nd year GM James Jones....you think he won't work us on this trade? We will likely give up a lot more than we have to. We should call his bluff if they want the 10.

It will be interesting to see how this team does if Paul is out with an injury for awhile like he typically is.


I would be okay if at worst, Jones flipped the 10 for 25 as that does create more cap space. And if they take Jerome and flip the 10 for 25 - that is like 4m or close. But there is no way, they should just give the 10. Waive Okobo, trade Jerome (though I kind of want to see what he does a second year) - but don't just hand it over. Say No and call the bluff


I wouldn't be ok, with it, but if they trade 10 they better get a damn first rounder back...at least I like a lot of guys later...I would like Bane but not sure he lasts to 25. I am not sure how high I am on Riller (as Flex calls him "Garrett Riller")....but he would likely be there.

I, like most who voted, would prefer the trade not go through, even without the pick, for reasons mentioned multiple times. Now if it brings back other really good players somehow, and he stays healthy for 2 years, maybe that's different, but that's unknown and risky to assume...and again, Rubio could stay longer if we don't find a PG for the future after 2 years and Oubre could net something else.

This team still had one of the best point differentials with the Rubio/Booker/Bridges/Oubre/Ayton lineup but didn't play it much early due to Ayton being out, and Saric starting most of the year instead of Bridges.

Then obviously replacing Oubre with Cam didn't seem to hurt much despite the loss of depth and not having Cam off the bench or Oubre's iso scoring...Cam a lot more efficient and the higher IQ player who likely improves more than Oubre next year.

But keeping Oubre would be good, or if not, trading him for something else while keeping the 8-0 lineup without Oubre or Baynes, while getting something else for Oubre and having more FA money, to me, is preferable...I think future upside/longevity is a lot higher with this route even if team might not be quite as good the next two years if Paul is healthy...I think we take step back as he gets older and especially when he is gone. And if we lose that pick too, that further hurts our long term outlook...and then in 2 years after Paul leaves, if we take a dip in that third year instead of gradually getting better and having more young depth, Booker is more likely to leave after the team taking a step back in year 3, one year before his deal ends.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3802 » by bwgood77 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:04 pm

Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Jesus_H_Macy wrote:
"If you're going to spend everything on that new car" <-- That's a little scary... If Jones and Bower walk into a dealership and buy a decked-out Corvette do they not only pay sticker price but also take up the finance guy on all of his offers?


Yes, Presti, who got a ton of picks for George and a ton of picks swapping Westbrook for Paul, making a deal with 2nd year GM James Jones....you think he won't work us on this trade? We will likely give up a lot more than we have to. We should call his bluff if they want the 10.

It will be interesting to see how this team does if Paul is out with an injury for awhile like he typically is.

Presti is good identifying talent, but he is not very good making deals. He has lost a good amount of trades...just Harden for that terrible package that he got was a terrible deal since the first minute. And many more.

I like our chances in this one.


I don't know about losing trades. The Harden one wasn't good but that was obviously the owner not wanting to give Harden the max. Ibaka for Dipo and Sabonis was good, and them for George was good (Dipo not good fit with Westbrook).

Westbrook was probably in a worse contract than Paul, but OKC got a lot of picks, but Houston was desperate...Clips were also desperate so they gave up a TON of picks and Gallo AND SGA for George.

When a team looks desperate, he is especially good. I think Presti probably wants to move on from Paul as much as we want him, if not more, but he is probably not showing it as much, and may get our pick or a future first because of it. As much as I want to keep this year's, next year's protected would likely be a worse one to give up, due to draft depth, and even if falls into protection range, protection probably drops off in future years and in 2022, I think the draft includes high schoolers so it will have double the talent and depth.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3803 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:13 pm

If picks have to be involved my favorite route would be to swap 10 and get 25 plus a future 1st even if it's one of those clippers picks that will likely be late. I don't think there's a significant gap between 10-25 in this draft and a future pick is always nice.

Maybe Okoro falls to 10, presti always seems to covet those athletic wings who need to learn to shoot (and never do). :)

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3804 » by sunsbg » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:15 pm

Gallinari - even less efficient on O than Oubre and a worse defender as well. 30% 3PT shooting in 25 playoff games is horrific. I wouldn't look at him as an upgrade at PF.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3805 » by Djedefre » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:16 pm

IDK if it's about Presti this time. It looks to me Paul is the real architect here (as multiple reports say). As Frank Lee said, he desperately wants out of Ok City, which is pretty expected given his age and stage of his career. He's practically going to be a cushion/intermediary between OKC and us while also pushing for his 'solutions'. This appears to be his swan-song project.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3806 » by BobbieL » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:27 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Yes, Presti, who got a ton of picks for George and a ton of picks swapping Westbrook for Paul, making a deal with 2nd year GM James Jones....you think he won't work us on this trade? We will likely give up a lot more than we have to. We should call his bluff if they want the 10.

It will be interesting to see how this team does if Paul is out with an injury for awhile like he typically is.


I would be okay if at worst, Jones flipped the 10 for 25 as that does create more cap space. And if they take Jerome and flip the 10 for 25 - that is like 4m or close. But there is no way, they should just give the 10. Waive Okobo, trade Jerome (though I kind of want to see what he does a second year) - but don't just hand it over. Say No and call the bluff


I wouldn't be ok, with it, but if they trade 10 they better get a damn first rounder back...at least I like a lot of guys later...I would like Bane but not sure he lasts to 25. I am not sure how high I am on Riller (as Flex calls him "Garrett Riller")....but he would likely be there.

I, like most who voted, would prefer the trade not go through, even without the pick, for reasons mentioned multiple times. Now if it brings back other really good players somehow, and he stays healthy for 2 years, maybe that's different, but that's unknown and risky to assume...and again, Rubio could stay longer if we don't find a PG for the future after 2 years and Oubre could net something else.

This team still had one of the best point differentials with the Rubio/Booker/Bridges/Oubre/Ayton lineup but didn't play it much early due to Ayton being out, and Saric starting most of the year instead of Bridges.

Then obviously replacing Oubre with Cam didn't seem to hurt much despite the loss of depth and not having Cam off the bench or Oubre's iso scoring...Cam a lot more efficient and the higher IQ player who likely improves more than Oubre next year.

But keeping Oubre would be good, or if not, trading him for something else while keeping the 8-0 lineup without Oubre or Baynes, while getting something else for Oubre and having more FA money, to me, is preferable...I think future upside/longevity is a lot higher with this route even if team might not be quite as good the next two years if Paul is healthy...I think we take step back as he gets older and especially when he is gone. And if we lose that pick too, that further hurts our long term outlook...and then in 2 years after Paul leaves, if we take a dip in that third year instead of gradually getting better and having more young depth, Booker is more likely to leave after the team taking a step back in year 3, one year before his deal ends.



Flex just tweeted
thinks it will happen 90/10
Suns are not budging on parameters
I hope that means No 10 in the deal

This deal will be all about can CP3 raise the level of the team
but you raise good points. Rubio + Oubre + cap space - is that better than CP3 and hoping to get Gallo

is this Sarver looking for sizzle over subtance - and i htink it is.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3807 » by Blackification » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:28 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Jesus_H_Macy wrote:
49erhokie wrote:[url]
Read on Twitter
?s=20[/url]


"If you're going to spend everything on that new car" <-- That's a little scary... If Jones and Bower walk into a dealership and buy a decked-out Corvette do they not only pay sticker price but also take up the finance guy on all of his offers?


Yes, Presti, who got a ton of picks for George and a ton of picks swapping Westbrook for Paul, making a deal with 2nd year GM James Jones....you think he won't work us on this trade? We will likely give up a lot more than we have to. We should call his bluff if they want the 10.

It will be interesting to see how this team does if Paul is out with an injury for awhile like he typically is.

Trades are often good/bad depending on timing and leverage, everyone knows their goal is to rebuild and with CP3's contract he doesn't have many options, on top of that if the rumors are true and CP3 is involved in the trade itself he loses even more leverage because now he is appeasing where the player wants to go. The pressure is on him to make the deal.

He did so well with PG13 because the clippers had to sell everything they had because no PG13 meant no Kawhi. The suns don't have any problem with keeping Rubio and finding someone else to take Oubre. Not saying Presti isn't a good GM or that JJ is going to win the trade, just that the situation favors the buyer in this case similar to if a player requests a trade and everyone knows they want out.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3808 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:39 pm

The thing we don't know when it comes to leverage is if Presti has any other options to trade Paul right now. If he does then sure he has some leverage. If he doesn't then his only other option is to keep Paul and hope something opens up later. The tricky thing is that salary, there's simply a finite amount of teams that can even make it work matching wise. This isn't like some 15 mil a year player where deals are possible with 29 other teams. Also not insignificant is the fact that dealing for oubre and Rubio straight up saves them around $10 mil this season which is something for a small market team that's rebuilding.

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3809 » by Kerrsed » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:18 am

List of the leagues Top Clutch Players last season:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=GP&dir=-1

CP3 tied for 1st, both CP3 & Gallo in the top 10, Booker tied for 15th
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3810 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:21 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:The thing we don't know when it comes to leverage is if Presti has any other options to trade Paul right now. If he does then sure he has some leverage. If he doesn't then his only other option is to keep Paul and hope something opens up later. The tricky thing is that salary, there's simply a finite amount of teams that can even make it work matching wise. This isn't like some 15 mil a year player where deals are possible with 29 other teams. Also not insignificant is the fact that dealing for oubre and Rubio straight up saves them around $10 mil this season which is something for a small market team that's rebuilding.

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Presti saves a ton of money like you mention, even if keeping the players...not only $10 million this season but almost $30 million the next, which, of course, he could partially use to try and keep Oubre if he wanted. And that's if Rubio stays in OKC, which might be unlikely..they may get back more expirings in return.

The reason I'd be play hard ball is because I think we are fine with Rubio and Oubre and there is less risk. Rubio had a huge impact on players..and would likely stick around if we wanted/needed him to.

If they threatened another offer they had, I would say good luck....Paul has health risks and we are taking on an extra $35+ million here. I would probably demand a pick, and settle for no picks going either way.

You can really want to do a deal and still give the impression you are willing to walk away if you are a good businessman and know how to call someone's bluff. Presti has shown this ability, and Jones/Bower certainly have not, given their recent track record.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3811 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:23 am

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:The thing we don't know when it comes to leverage is if Presti has any other options to trade Paul right now. If he does then sure he has some leverage. If he doesn't then his only other option is to keep Paul and hope something opens up later. The tricky thing is that salary, there's simply a finite amount of teams that can even make it work matching wise. This isn't like some 15 mil a year player where deals are possible with 29 other teams. Also not insignificant is the fact that dealing for oubre and Rubio straight up saves them around $10 mil this season which is something for a small market team that's rebuilding.

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Presti saves a ton of money like you mention, even if keeping the players...not only $10 million this season but almost $30 million the next, which, of course, he could partially use to try and keep Oubre if he wanted. And that's if Rubio stays in OKC, which might be unlikely..they may get back more expirings in return.

The reason I'd be play hard ball is because I think we are fine with Rubio and Oubre and there is less risk. Rubio had a huge impact on players..and would likely stick around if we wanted/needed him to.

If they threatened another offer they had, I would say good luck....Paul has health risks and we are taking on an extra $35+ million here. I would probably demand a pick, and settle for no picks going either way.

You can really want to do a deal and still give the impression you are willing to walk away if you are a good businessman and know how to call someone's bluff. Presti has shown this ability, and Jones/Bower certainly have not, given their recent track record.
One exception is the supposedly walked away from the Kennard deal at the deadline.

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3812 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:24 am

Another interesting thing I heard somewhere, I think from Flex, was that we would keep Frank.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3813 » by Fo-Real » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:30 am

Kerrsed wrote:Read a couple of Hawk Fansites (This being one of them) talking about how they should be the ones going after Oubre. At first i found it interesting because of their inclusion of the #6 pick and reading about how he would actually be a really good fit in Atlanta, but they totally lost me when i later read that they think they can give up #6 and have the capspace to absorb Oubres contract without sending anyone back to net them Kelly.......and our #10.

They then say that the #6 would go to OKC for us to get CP3. Yeah NO.

But i do find Oubres fit in Atlanta really intriguing for both of them and the fact they can take him on without sending out salary is making me start to look at new 4 team trades with them included. Im getting ready to start rocking the trade machine to see who else in the East would value Rubio (Orlando is first up) and start plugging away with us/OKC/ATL.


I like Kelly and think he would be appreciated in a couple places, NY being one of the best ones. They can use a flashy guy like Kelly.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3814 » by Blonde » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:35 am

OKC is committed to tanking this season. They just hired a no name coach, they won’t be re-signing Gallo, and I promise you they want to move off of Paul because the guy will win them games. Every other team in the west is trying to win so there’s no better time to be a tanking team in the West. Every bad team should be trying to tank for Cade Cunningham right now.

I think it’s clear that OKC is determined to move him, so they don’t have much leverage in that regard. The question is who are we competing with, realistically, to obtain Paul? There could be a few teams who CP3 puts over the top like LAL/LAC/Mil but how do they match salaries and would a pick from those team be a better asset than Rubio/Oubre? Would Paul want to play for the Knicks? Likely not. There always exists a chance that someone sweeps in with a better offer but until that point I think PHX is in the driver seat.

And even though I want Paul, I would be hard pressed to include pick 10 without getting some sort of sweetener back like a future pick. We would need all the rotation players we can get, and this could be our last lottery pick for a while so have to capitalize on it.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3815 » by Fo-Real » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:39 am

bwgood77 wrote:Another interesting thing I heard somewhere, I think from Flex, was that we would keep Frank.


Frank Lee??? Yeah, nobody trading for that guy!!! :lol: :lol: Kidding Frank!!!
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3816 » by Slim Charless » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:39 am

bwgood77 wrote:Another interesting thing I heard somewhere, I think from Flex, was that we would keep Frank.


Is he predicting that we keep or trade 10? I've been following this thread but conflicting reports so far.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3817 » by Fo-Real » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:40 am

Blonde wrote:OKC is committed to tanking this season. They just hired a no name coach, they won’t be re-signing Gallo, and I promise you they want to move off of Paul because the guy will win them games. Every other team in the west is trying to win so there’s no better time to be a tanking team in the West. Every bad team should be trying to tank for Cade Cunningham right now.

I think it’s clear that OKC is determined to move him, so they don’t have much leverage in that regard. The question is who are we competing with, realistically, to obtain Paul? There could be a few teams who CP3 puts over the top like LAL/LAC/Mil but how do they match salaries and would a pick from those team be a better asset than Rubio/Oubre? Would Paul want to play for the Knicks? Likely not. There always exists a chance that someone sweeps in with a better offer but until that point I think PHX is in the driver seat.

And even though I want Paul, I would be hard pressed to include pick 10 without getting some sort of sweetener back like a future pick. We would need all the rotation players we can get, and this could be our last lottery pick for a while so have to capitalize on it.


Committed to tanking is not the focus I would say. Deciding to go young and acquire talent is more what I would say.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3818 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:43 am

Slim Charless wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Another interesting thing I heard somewhere, I think from Flex, was that we would keep Frank.


Is he predicting that we keep or trade 10? I've been following this thread but conflicting reports so far.


Not really predicting from what I've heard but does say OKC wants picks and also says we are standing pretty firm (but doesn't indicate if that is in regard to picks I don't know...I think he said he knows we want to keep our pick so that may be the idea, but we certainly shouldn't give away a future first either).
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3819 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:46 am

Fo-Real wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:Read a couple of Hawk Fansites (This being one of them) talking about how they should be the ones going after Oubre. At first i found it interesting because of their inclusion of the #6 pick and reading about how he would actually be a really good fit in Atlanta, but they totally lost me when i later read that they think they can give up #6 and have the capspace to absorb Oubres contract without sending anyone back to net them Kelly.......and our #10.

They then say that the #6 would go to OKC for us to get CP3. Yeah NO.

But i do find Oubres fit in Atlanta really intriguing for both of them and the fact they can take him on without sending out salary is making me start to look at new 4 team trades with them included. Im getting ready to start rocking the trade machine to see who else in the East would value Rubio (Orlando is first up) and start plugging away with us/OKC/ATL.


I like Kelly and think he would be appreciated in a couple places, NY being one of the best ones. They can use a flashy guy like Kelly.


He does really make sense there. That is a place he would clearly be a fan favorite, and they'd like an expiring in case they can hit on big names next summer. That being unlikely, they would likely re-sign Oubre.

With his so called fashion and stuff and likely fan popularity, he could also probably get endorsement deals there. NY could take Oubre and might give up a Dallas pick and could give up one of or both DSJr or Ntilikina both who expire..or maybe just Randle since he expires and doesn't fit well with Robinson.

If they could land Toppin, a DSJr (I think I read he is in the gym and looking good), Barrett, Oubre, Toppin and Mitchell Robinson could be fun.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3820 » by Kerrsed » Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:00 am

Fo-Real wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Another interesting thing I heard somewhere, I think from Flex, was that we would keep Frank.


Frank Lee??? Yeah, nobody trading for that guy!!! :lol: :lol: Kidding Frank!!!


You beat me to the punch! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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