2019-2020 College/Draft thread 13: One week to go

[newyorker4ever]

Don’t forget Patrick Williams folks.

I'm a big fan of Williams and wouldn't mind taking him at #8 at all.

[newyorker4ever]

Hey at least that's a justifiable pick with Okoro's upside. Now if it was Devin Vassell, well that would just be unbearable

You still on the draft Cole Anthony at #8 train or have you come off of that one? Haven't been doing enough browsing on here lately to know who some on here are wanting at #8 these days.

Yup would still take him but I've covered all the bases with Cole to the point where I don't think there's anything left to be explored. Been taking a dive into these other players and trying to see what else is really out there. There's some guys like Maxey and Terry who I've completely flipped on to the point where I like them a lot now. Overall there's a lot of guards who can help us and can fit in and we can find use for even down in the 27th pick range. A lot of directions we can choose to take.

Maybe Cole drops to #27 or we trade up a few spots to take him if he falls to the early to mid 20's. He should be even more motivated now then he already was to prove people wrong with the way he's dropping in mock drafts. Motivation doesn't mean he'll now be a good/great player but it could help. He definitely seems like a Thibs type of PG if we go off of his Bulls days.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Why do some of you think Danny Ainge is going to trade Hayward & picks for Randle? Do yall not know that man's history in trades?

They would save 15M in this trade. I dont think it's absurd. But its improbable.

There are better options out there for them, and Randle just doesn't fit what they want from their big.

[Black and Blue]

Don’t forget Patrick Williams folks.

I'm a big fan of Williams and wouldn't mind taking him at #8 at all.

This, even more than the Okoro or Vassell choices, would be the most Knicks pick. NOT saying he won’t be good (he seems to have some really great attributes), but because he is the consensus “we know the least about what this guy will turn into” in the lottery.

Williams, Knox, and Frank will combine rings and turn into the “let’s take a shot on this guy developing into an NBA player one day” Captain Planet

[newyorker4ever]

Read on Twitter

Maybe he really is Justice Winslow 2.0 if Ainge wants him

Ainge has done well with drafting players that play defense and guys that play both sides of the ball well.

They value the 6'6-6'8" athlete that plays hard, they figure it's easier to teach someone like that how to shoot than it is to teach a guy with a poor motor how to care.

Yep and is why i'd love to somehow get M.Smart who's one of my favorite players to watch play. He'll take and miss some bad shots in games but the intensity that guy plays with and the all out effort at all times is the type of players every team needs.

[3toheadmelo]

no I don't want to chase the 9th seed. but we aren't going full tanking anyway. so I would rather have Hayward chuck up shots (and space the floor) than Randle.
And again, i moved up with those picks. I didn't give them away for Hayward.

Well that’s exactly what you’re doing giving up young players for a washed up player. Chasing the 9th seed. I rather see what they can do with actual coaching instead of dumping them for a terrible washed up player who’s only going to hinder the development of our young players.

Also hate on Randle as much as you want but he actually played well under Miller. Randle-Mitch-RJ under Miller without Morris had a positive net rating.

I don’t see why Boston would even take DSJ from us. He does nothing for them.

I'm not even a fan of Hayward. just want 3 things from my offseason moves:
I'm trying to a) get better b) get better fits around mitch and RJ and c) keep future flexiblity
Hayward is a) better than Randle, b) a better fit with his shooting and role as secondary ballhandler and c) his contract is up after next season but Randle would have 4 million guaranteed

9th seed here we come!

[Reign23]

Well that’s exactly what you’re doing giving up young players for a washed up player. Chasing the 9th seed. I rather see what they can do with actual coaching instead of dumping them for a terrible washed up player who’s only going to hinder the development of our young players.

Also hate on Randle as much as you want but he actually played well under Miller. Randle-Mitch-RJ under Miller without Morris had a positive net rating.

I don’t see why Boston would even take DSJ from us. He does nothing for them.

I'm not even a fan of Hayward. just want 3 things from my offseason moves:
I'm trying to a) get better b) get better fits around mitch and RJ and c) keep future flexiblity
Hayward is a) better than Randle, b) a better fit with his shooting and role as secondary ballhandler and c) his contract is up after next season but Randle would have 4 million guaranteed

9th seed here we come!

ok

[Juco24]

I’m not giving up any picks or players for Hayward. Hell no. Not even Frank or Knox who I dislike the most on our team. Are you trying to chase the 9th seed instead of developing players?

where did I give up picks for hayward? in the first trade I moved up from 38 to 26 and in the second I packaged 27 + 38 to get 14.
And I def would give up DSJ and Randle. Sorry bro, I know you like them, but they are just terrible fits.

First trade has you giving up the 38th pick and the second one has you giving up 2 picks.

Like I said before, all Hayward is going to do is chuck up shots and take away minutes from our young guys. Are you trying to chase the 9th seed?

Yeah... I just don't like Hayward's game... and if you compare Randle's game vs Hayward currently INCLUDING the salaries - I'm taking Randle.

[SelbyCobra]

I don’t get the FVV hate. Like am I the only one that saw this man hit clutch shot after clutch shot his entire career and play pesky defense? He’s a great supporting free agent for the youth and fits that Thibs mold. Worried about 22 million like Look at what some bums around the league is making. If we get rid of Randle and do not take on a long term deal FVV is basically replacing Randle on the books which is a huge W. Do we splurge on another free agent is the ? And for how much? Need lots of shooting.

I like FVV but don't want to pay him that much money, especially when we're not sure who our primaries are yet. That puts him in a position to fail as a first option similar to Randle last year and we lose value in his contract and draft position next year.

What the hell? You, too, with this nonsense now? I get not wanting FVV to be the primary option, but this false comparison between him and Randle, as if it offers any meaningful analysis is ridiculous.

Before he signed with the Knicks, Randle's breakout season saw him play a brand of basketball that had him post a turnover rate in line with point guards and a 27.8 USG on the same team that Anthony Davis posted a 29.5, which resulted in the 8th worst record in the NBA.

VanVleet is coming off a season in which he posted a career high USG of 21.7, which was still just 4th on a Raptors team that lost their ball dominant mega star coming into the year. There were PLENTY of shots up for grabs in TOR this year, and it didn't make FVV crazy shot happy. In fact, his USG this past season without Kawhi was essentially tied with NORMAN POWELL (21.5) on the Raptors. And all for a team that had the second best record in the NBA.

So the point is drawing equivalencies between the idea of thrusting FVV into a lead-dog role and what happened with Randle last year is specious. The writing was on the wall for Randle - a high volume, high usage player with inefficiencies, that never played on a winning team. VanVleet meanwhile, is a low volume, low usage player who has played efficiently and within a team concept during his career - including a championship season.

To be clear: I am not saying that FVV can't be miscast or become less efficient if the Knicks sign him on a team where he is more of a primary. Of course he can. But it will not be anything like what we see with Randle. Nothing at all.

[3toheadmelo]

where did I give up picks for hayward? in the first trade I moved up from 38 to 26 and in the second I packaged 27 + 38 to get 14.
And I def would give up DSJ and Randle. Sorry bro, I know you like them, but they are just terrible fits.

First trade has you giving up the 38th pick and the second one has you giving up 2 picks.

Like I said before, all Hayward is going to do is chuck up shots and take away minutes from our young guys. Are you trying to chase the 9th seed?

Yeah... I just don't like Hayward's game... and if you compare Randle's game vs Hayward currently INCLUDING the salaries - I'm taking Randle.

Hayward in the playoffs
10 ppg on 40% FG and 29% from 3


I also rather have Randle’s contract over Hayward’s. Let’s say if Booker/Lavine requests a trade... we wouldn’t be able to go after them with Hayward here.

[Reign23]

First trade has you giving up the 38th pick and the second one has you giving up 2 picks.

Like I said before, all Hayward is going to do is chuck up shots and take away minutes from our young guys. Are you trying to chase the 9th seed?

Yeah... I just don't like Hayward's game... and if you compare Randle's game vs Hayward currently INCLUDING the salaries - I'm taking Randle.

Hayward in the playoffs
10 ppg on 40% FG and 29% from 3


I also rather have Randle’s contract over Hayward’s. Let’s say if Booker/Lavine requests a trade... we wouldn’t be able to go after them with Hayward here.

yeah it's more difficult to be efficient in the playoffs. Also it is well known that Hayward wasn't at a 100% because of the ankle.
I would post Randles playoff stats, but he hasn't made the post season in 6(!) years with 3(!) teams.which is kind of telling.

[Capn'O]

To be clear: I am not saying that FVV can't be miscast or become less efficient if the Knicks sign him on a team where he is more of a primary. Of course he can.

Like Randle then, putting him on a big deal will be putting the cart before the horse. The Knicks need horses.

I most certainly did not put that out there as a player comp.

[Richard4444]

Grade A draft:

take on Mike Scott contract + #34 and our 2021 2nd
Acquire another 1st via salary dump trade (maybe Brooklyn trading Prince?)
use that 1st + #34 or #38 + 5.6M in cash + maybe DSJ to move up around #15

1(8) Kira Lewis
1(15) RJ Hampton (or Aaron Nesmith)
1(27) Desmond Bane
2(38) Reggie Perry

If we end up with 3 1st round picks then we have to end up with a PF that can shoot and play defense with at least one of those picks.

Mike Scott role.

Lets draft BPA. Especially outside lottery.

[Richard4444]

2 more pages and we're out of thread 13.

I underestimated how fast we could through 30 pages.

That Westbrook rumor brought a lot of people in here.

To cry and threat to change teams.

[3toheadmelo]

Yeah... I just don't like Hayward's game... and if you compare Randle's game vs Hayward currently INCLUDING the salaries - I'm taking Randle.

Hayward in the playoffs
10 ppg on 40% FG and 29% from 3


I also rather have Randle’s contract over Hayward’s. Let’s say if Booker/Lavine requests a trade... we wouldn’t be able to go after them with Hayward here.

yeah it's more difficult to be efficient in the playoffs. Also it is well known that Hayward wasn't at a 100% because of the ankle.
I would post Randles playoff stats, but he hasn't made the post season in 6(!) years with 3(!) teams.which is kind of telling.

He’s completely washed. That’s what the stats indicate.

And again you’re fine with ditching developing young players and rather chase a 9th seed so that’s where we differ. I’ll pass.

I also rather have cap space open if Booker/Lavine wants out of their teams. Hayward prevents us from doing that. So no.

[thebuzzardman]

Read on Twitter

He called kD and Kyrie to Nets so I’m listening to him a little. Also Boston disrespectful for that offer.

Read on Twitter

Fred said show me the money in the interview.

26 & 30?

Glad Rose & Co told Danny to GTFO

[Richard4444]

where did I give up picks for hayward? in the first trade I moved up from 38 to 26 and in the second I packaged 27 + 38 to get 14.
And I def would give up DSJ and Randle. Sorry bro, I know you like them, but they are just terrible fits.

First trade has you giving up the 38th pick and the second one has you giving up 2 picks.

Like I said before, all Hayward is going to do is chuck up shots and take away minutes from our young guys. Are you trying to chase the 9th seed?

Yeah... I just don't like Hayward's game... and if you compare Randle's game vs Hayward currently INCLUDING the salaries - I'm taking Randle.

[Reign23]

Hayward in the playoffs
10 ppg on 40% FG and 29% from 3


I also rather have Randle’s contract over Hayward’s. Let’s say if Booker/Lavine requests a trade... we wouldn’t be able to go after them with Hayward here.

yeah it's more difficult to be efficient in the playoffs. Also it is well known that Hayward wasn't at a 100% because of the ankle.
I would post Randles playoff stats, but he hasn't made the post season in 6(!) years with 3(!) teams.which is kind of telling.

He’s completely washed. That’s what the stats indicate.

And again you’re fine with ditching developing young players and rather chase a 9th seed so that’s where we differ. I’ll pass.

I also rather have cap space open if Booker/Lavine wants out of their teams. Hayward prevents us from doing that. So no.

ok I think we won't agree here. the hayward trade won't happen anyway, so it doesn't matter.

[Clyde_Style]

I don’t get the FVV hate. Like am I the only one that saw this man hit clutch shot after clutch shot his entire career and play pesky defense? He’s a great supporting free agent for the youth and fits that Thibs mold. Worried about 22 million like Look at what some bums around the league is making. If we get rid of Randle and do not take on a long term deal FVV is basically replacing Randle on the books which is a huge W. Do we splurge on another free agent is the ? And for how much? Need lots of shooting.

He'd be our Charley Ward, a reliable floor general who contributes on defense and can provide clutch buckets at times.

Not the worst option in the world, but it does limit the possibility of finding a more transcendant PG when you're tied up for $90 with FVV.

I'd much rather have him than Westbrick, that's for sure.

I can see FVV being a move supported by Thibs. This idea he only wants Rose type of players never rang true to me. He's going to be looking for roster balance too and FVV can basically mesh with almost any club.

If they are going to sign FVV, I guess the thing to look for is any pre-draft trades. If they move Randle with the intent to sign FVV, it probably means they're not drafting a PG and will draft SGs and PFs

Will the Knicks offer FVV over $25M per to discourage TO from matching is the other thing to watch for. He really shouldn't get that much, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens

[RHODEY]

Not disagreeing with you but fast forward a bit. How much more mature is Kira now? How much stronger? (Especially after the weight gain) AND the BIG thing... how different is the NBA game vs the NCAA?

Right , I dont think head to head for one game is a good guage. Didnt Knox destroy Bridges (or somebody) and thats why we picked him? Im sure Cole Anthony would destroy most of the PGS in the draft head to head but he;s not gonna be picked in the top ten...

But Kira is predicted to have the higher ceiling were as Haliburton is more ready made.

No disagreements here. For me personally I will say watching highlights of both in a vacuum I was unclear as to why everyone had Haliburton going higher in the draft, then watched this clip and was like, “Oh, this is why.”

Being a Knicks fan I often forget there is such a thing as going with a proven commodity. This franchise, in game show terms, never goes with the smart, safe bet over “the mystery box”.

True but it is understandable that we would want to take bug swings. I guess the answer is to find that middle ground of readiness combined with "ceiling". And Ill admit "ceiling" can be tough to predict.