The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason

yoyoboy · Post #361 » by **yoyoboy** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:15 pm

Great. KCP looking to get paid.

If he leaves this team is screwed. Shooting and perimeter defense were already lacking as it is.

JLei · Post #362 » by **JLei** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:18 pm

I flip between liking the trade and not. Schroder is good and if they think Rondo is out it's a good pre-emptive move.

I don't like the timing of it though.

KCP is legit a good free agent that can get offers off-ball defensive guard/wing, 27, champion. And giving Rich Paul this much leverage (the Lakers without Green absolutely cannot lose KCP) means Lakers are going to get absolutely bent over with this KCP contract. Like might be like 1 year Max lol.

RCM88x · Post #363 » by **RCM88x** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:43 pm

Eh, KCP was a negative for the Lakers all season. He had a few clutch shots in the playoffs but he's definitely not worth more than 10 mill in this economy.

However, the problem for the Lakers is bodies. If you lose Green, Bradley, Rondo, and KCP the rotation becomes super thin. And IMO continuity with these sort of players is always pretty valuable.

Schroder is a good start, but they really need Matthews to work out for them and probably another true 3 guy with a defensive edge to make me feel good about the rotation.

LikeABosh · Post #364 » by **LikeABosh** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:43 pm

I don't see any reason why KCP wouldn't opt out. Even if he's staying with the Lakers, he can make more this way

LikeABosh · Post #365 » by **LikeABosh** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:45 pm

RCM88x wrote:Eh, KCP was a negative for the Lakers all season. He had a few clutch shots in the playoffs but he's definitely not worth more than 10 mill in this economy.

However, the problem for the Lakers is bodies. If you lose Green, Bradley, Rondo, and KCP the rotation becomes super thin. And IMO continuity with these sort of players is always pretty valuable.

Schroder is a good start, but they really need Matthews to work out for them and probably another true 1/2 guy with a defensive edge to make me feel good about the rotation.

The wing/SG market is kind of weak honestly. That's my only concern with losing KCP

I like Matthews, but then...Justin Holiday or Harkless? Austin Rivers? Eh

RCM88x · Post #366 » by **RCM88x** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:57 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
RCM88x wrote:Eh, KCP was a negative for the Lakers all season. He had a few clutch shots in the playoffs but he's definitely not worth more than 10 mill in this economy.

However, the problem for the Lakers is bodies. If you lose Green, Bradley, Rondo, and KCP the rotation becomes super thin. And IMO continuity with these sort of players is always pretty valuable.

Schroder is a good start, but they really need Matthews to work out for them and probably another true 1/2 guy with a defensive edge to make me feel good about the rotation.

The wing/SG market is kind of weak honestly. That's my only concern with losing KCP

I like Matthews, but then...Justin Holiday or Harkless? Austin Rivers? Eh

Harkless is a good option, I like him. I actually made a mistake and said 1/2 instead of 3. They need a guy who can defend bigger wings so Lebron doesn't have to. Holiday could be a good fit, not a fan of Rivers. Glen Robinson III is likely to be available as well.

Morris might be that guy, although he looked pretty sluggish in the bubble. Think it would be worth giving him another year in a more normal playing situation though, so long as hes cheap.

As far as more 1/2 guys go tho, I actually really like Langston Galloway, not sure if he's on the radar but for a cheap Bradley replacement he's ideal IMO. Kris Dunn also might be available for cheap, he's an odd fit but defensively he can play and for a team like this it might be worthwhile.

yoyoboy · Post #367 » by **yoyoboy** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:35 pm

RCM88x wrote:Eh, KCP was a negative for the Lakers all season. He had a few clutch shots in the playoffs but he's definitely not worth more than 10 mill in this economy.

However, the problem for the Lakers is bodies. If you lose Green, Bradley, Rondo, and KCP the rotation becomes super thin. And IMO continuity with these sort of players is always pretty valuable.

Schroder is a good start, but they really need Matthews to work out for them and probably another true 3 guy with a defensive edge to make me feel good about the rotation.

What? Did you only watch KCP for the first couple weeks of the season and the first couple weeks of the bubble? KCP was awesome for this team.

Dupp · Post #368 » by **Dupp** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:21 pm

yoyoboy wrote:Great. KCP looking to get paid.

If he leaves this team is screwed. Shooting and perimeter defense were already lacking as it is.

As he should.

Trading green though you’d hope the Lakers know they’re getting kcp back

Dupp · Post #369 » by **Dupp** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:24 pm

RCM88x wrote:Eh, KCP was a negative for the Lakers all season. He had a few clutch shots in the playoffs but he's definitely not worth more than 10 mill in this economy.

However, the problem for the Lakers is bodies. If you lose Green, Bradley, Rondo, and KCP the rotation becomes super thin. And IMO continuity with these sort of players is always pretty valuable.

Schroder is a good start, but they really need Matthews to work out for them and probably another true 3 guy with a defensive edge to make me feel good about the rotation.

I personally thought kcp was their most consistent player all season outside of the big 2. He was clearly the Lakers third best player to me.

RCM88x · Post #370 » by **RCM88x** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:26 pm

yoyoboy wrote:
RCM88x wrote:Eh, KCP was a negative for the Lakers all season. He had a few clutch shots in the playoffs but he's definitely not worth more than 10 mill in this economy.

However, the problem for the Lakers is bodies. If you lose Green, Bradley, Rondo, and KCP the rotation becomes super thin. And IMO continuity with these sort of players is always pretty valuable.

Schroder is a good start, but they really need Matthews to work out for them and probably another true 3 guy with a defensive edge to make me feel good about the rotation.

What? Did you only watch KCP for the first couple weeks of the season and the first couple weeks of the bubble? KCP was awesome for this team.

He had a negative on/off in both the RS and the playoffs and the worst on-court rating of any player who started more than 3 games for the Lakers last season.

He had a few good games sure, but IMO Green and Bradley were more valuable when they played.

MisterHibachi · Post #371 » by **MisterHibachi** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:45 pm

KCP was very clearly the Lakers third best player in the playoffs, and no one really separated themselves during the regular season, so I'm inclined to say he was the third most important player on the team generally speaking.

RCM88x · Post #372 » by **RCM88x** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:26 pm

IMO Green and Rondo were definitely more valuable in the playoffs.

Mos_Heat · Post #373 » by **Mos_Heat** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:50 pm

They have to bring KCP back, they don't have other options. He's one of the best wings on the markets

Dupp · Post #374 » by **Dupp** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:52 pm

RCM88x wrote:IMO Green and Rondo were definitely more valuable in the playoffs.

Rondo just had a great series against Denver. Kcp was better in every other series. Way better in the finals.

Bradley better then kcp when he played? AB has like one stand out game all season and sucked the rest of the time.

xb3at band1tx · Post #375 » by **xb3at band1tx** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:24 pm

Zach Lowe just stated on The Jump that “it seems like a foregone conclusion that KCP will be back” for the Lakers

MyUniBroDavis · Post #376 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:09 pm

Dupp wrote:
RCM88x wrote:IMO Green and Rondo were definitely more valuable in the playoffs.

Rondo just had a great series against Denver. Kcp was better in every other series. Way better in the finals.

Bradley better then kcp when he played? AB has like one stand out game all season and sucked the rest of the time.

Green had a good on off in the playoffs but tbh he played like absolute cheeks lmao, if your a three point specialist hitting easy threes and your missing them thats pretty much it

Defensively hes better but hes a help guy more than a point of attack defender

Kcp creates his own shot better and even though hes not as good of a defender he holds his own in certain matchups, also shot substantially better

Rondo was pretty insane vs houstan though

Heej · Post #377 » by **Heej** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:36 pm

I just don't like this trade. I get that Schroders a better offensive player but I feel like this trade just goes against the whole synergistic aspect of team building where the less weaknesses you have, the greater the whole is than the sum of its parts. You can't switch anything with Schroder meaning every PNR has to be played with some kind of conventional scheme. I guess AD is the best player in the league at being able to dominate in every scheme but Schroders now an unnecessary flaw that he's gonna be forced to cover for on defense every single play when it's crunch time.

Will Schroder be making plays for LeBron and AD during crunch time? I doubt it. It doesn't seem like optimal allocation of ball time when it's nut-crunching time. At least we could've confidently said DG won't get targeted on either end. This trade just goes against what I think the evolving future metagame of basketball is and I'm not sure Schroder is a good enough player that to counterbalance his archetypal flaws.

I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong but from what I've come to understand about the tactical evolution of the NBA this just doesn't pass the smell test to me. How are Schroders advanced numbers at his various stops? Have they been consistently positive like DGs?

Edit: Going back and reading one of the posts about his defensive numbers does make me feel a little better. I always had the sense from his Atlanta days vs the Cavs that he was an Avery Bradley type that looked pesky but didn't really suppress the other team's offense much at the end of the day. I guess he really is just peaking huh. Maybe it was the right move to do this for an over the hill DG, provided his defense is actually legit.

Mos_Heat · Post #378 » by **Mos_Heat** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:42 pm

Heej wrote:I just don't like this trade. I get that Schroders a better offensive player but I feel like this trade just goes against the whole synergistic aspect of team building where the less weaknesses you have, the greater the whole is than the sum of its parts. You can't switch anything with Schroder meaning every PNR has to be played with some kind of conventional scheme. I guess AD is the best player in the league at being able to dominate in every scheme but Schroders now an unnecessary flaw that he's gonna be forced to cover for on defense every single play when it's crunch time.

Will Schroder be making plays for LeBron and AD during crunch time? I doubt it. It doesn't seem like optimal allocation of ball time when it's nut-crunching time. At least we could've confidently said DG won't get targeted on either end. This trade just goes against what I think the evolving future metagame of basketball is and I'm not sure Schroder is a good enough player that to counterbalance his archetypal flaws.

I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong but from what I've come to understand about the tactical evolution of the NBA this just doesn't pass the smell test to me. How are Schroders advanced numbers at his various stops? Have they been consistently positive like DGs?

I mean, if they thought Schroder will finish games for them, they already lost the trade.

RCM88x · Post #379 » by **RCM88x** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:43 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Dupp wrote:
RCM88x wrote:IMO Green and Rondo were definitely more valuable in the playoffs.

Rondo just had a great series against Denver. Kcp was better in every other series. Way better in the finals.

Bradley better then kcp when he played? AB has like one stand out game all season and sucked the rest of the time.

Green had a good on off in the playoffs but tbh he played like absolute cheeks lmao, if your a three point specialist hitting easy threes and your missing them thats pretty much it

Defensively hes better but hes a help guy more than a point of attack defender

Kcp creates his own shot better and even though hes not as good of a defender he holds his own in certain matchups, also shot substantially better

Rondo was pretty insane vs houstan though

Elite team defense is more valuable than good individual defense, especially considering the Lakers scheme and the fact that there's probably a bigger gap the other way around between the two anyways.

Offensively KCP is more skilled but whether or not he makes more of an impact on that end is still TBD. Green moves much better without the ball, and despite his numbers I feel like he creates more spacing than KCP ever will.

nzahir · Post #380 » by **nzahir** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:06 pm

Some of you guys think KCP was a negative for us?

He was our 3rd best player when looking at the entire season and the playoffs

He was a good 3 and d guard who could guard 1s and 2s

Would love to have him back, especially if we are about to lose Avery. A bit worried we would be losing way too much of out defensive identity

KCP, Wes?, Lebron, AD, Boogie?
Dennis, AC, Harkless?, Kuzma, Dwight
Cook, THT, Mcgee

Not sure if we can afford Kieff. Bring back Dudley?

Can Mcgee, Cook, and a 2nd/cash be used for anything?

I don't think Gallo or Ibaka are very realistic, but lets see