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2020 Preseason Speculation - Lineup battles underway

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#341 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:15 pm

mr570 wrote:Why are Suns fans so adamant about not trading 10? It's a weak draft. If all you lose is Oubre (Rubio old and never been a superstar) that's a deal worth making for an All Star.


The 10th pick is very valuable to us for a number of reasons.
1- It represents low scale cost contractually controlled asset, Which obviously is very important in this current financial climate, With the declining cap, financial restrictions, and happening to have one of the poorest owners ( by comparison) in the entire league. Cap flexibility will be absolutely critical to the success of individual teams currently.

2- This may very well be the last high range pick that we get for quite a while considering our forward progression, Even absent the Chris Paul trade. Good teams maintain a balanced roster of experienced veterans AND an influx of young developing talent to rotate into the roster, As well as to add low cost positional depth.

3- Value exchange based on principle. In this trade, We're already surrendering two KEY rotation starters that happened to help us to our best win total in years, and an 8 game win streak at the end of the season. Ounmbre has been a profound culture changer for our franchise, is just entering his prime, And gives us an edge this team has lacked for a long time. Rubio has been much better than expected, He's been the engine to a starting lineup that was in the top 7 in the entire league. And BOTH of Rubio/ Oubre were part of a starting lineup that had a + 20 Net rating! So our lineup outscored opponents by an average of 20 points with that lineup. So the value of Rubio and Oubre absolutely must be considered in proper context. Presti may not prefer either for his roster plans, But it's absurd for anyone to imply that they wouldn't have good value to a number of other teams in the league that he could flip them to for additional assets/ draft capital.

And additionally, As good as Paul is, His trade value in this scenario is predominantly being predicted upon his reputation. The facts of this trade are that Paul, Although still a difference maker is a HUGE RISK due to his age (potential for reoccurring injuries), documented pattern of injury, Resulting in his missing an average of 20+ games per season. And his contract equates to an investment of over HALF of a team's entire cap flexibility. So if he at all reverts to his usual patterns of missing 20 games or more, Then we've now tied up over half of our cap space in an injured player that obviously can't contribute if he's not on the floor. Also, post trade, This legitimately depletes our positional depth at key positions.

For instance, IF ( Fairly likely) Paul.goes down with an injury, Then who is our back guard? If we're giving up our only draft pick in this deal, How do we reasonably and affordably fill not only our backup guard position, But also our wing depth that we lose, Along with the other positions we'll need to give up in the deal, Just to make the salaries work? The huge risks associated with Taking Paul's enormous contract back, Along with the other concerning factors, doesn't at all increase his value in a trade, IF anything, it decreases it. Rubio/ Oubre and possibly a draft pick or young players from another team is realistically more than enough value in a return for OKC, When you consider that we're giving them over 40 million in additional cap savings, AND throwing in two productive starting level rotation players in the deal. If OKC really wants young players added, that's fine! I'm cool with adding any combination of Jerome/ Okobo/ Diallo/ even Lecque if they prefer. But if we're being honest, This trade is not a critical necessity to our success, If anything it's a heavy and ultimately unecessary gamble foarour team to try and take a jump in our next step. :dontknow:
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#342 » by jcsunsfan » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:16 pm

CP3 is 35 years old. This is like a Steve Nash trade.

Nash to the Lakers that is. CP3 is better than Nash was at that moment, but he is due for a quick downturn. He might have one good year in him, but even that is not likely. He is a career ending injury waiting to happen at his age.

This Suns team has some decent chemistry going. 8-0 in the bubble was not a fluke. The tendency of NBA Gm's to pee away a good thing just because they can make a deal is mind-boggling.

Rubio is going to be better next year than he was this year. He is the perfect player for this squad. CP3 is not worth the risk.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#343 » by Saberestar » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:18 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:CP3 is 35 years old. This is like a Steve Nash trade.

Nash to the Lakers that is. CP3 is better than Nash was at that moment, but he is due for a quick downturn. He might have one good year in him, but even that is not likely. He is a career ending injury waiting to happen at his age.

This Suns team has some decent chemistry going. 8-0 in the bubble was not a fluke. The tendency of NBA Gm's to pee away a good thing just because they can make a deal is mind-boggling.

Rubio is going to be better next year than he was this year. He is the perfect player for this squad. CP3 is not worth the risk.

Nash was 38.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#344 » by BobbieL » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:24 pm

alamin330 wrote:I also wouldn’t trade for Harden. He’s really good but he’s a chemistry killer and super lazy. No accountability. Plus he doesn’t fit with Booker unless he changes his game. He’s also a choke artist.


I just do not want anything to do with James Harden. Talented guy - let him go to the Nets though the Sixers should be talking about this trade.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#345 » by Jarlaxle0204 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:27 pm

It will be nice seeing Houston implode and great if Harden and Westbrook both move East. The west is so difficult and it would definitely make it easier at competing for a playoff spot.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#346 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:30 pm

Saberestar wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:CP3 is 35 years old. This is like a Steve Nash trade.

Nash to the Lakers that is. CP3 is better than Nash was at that moment, but he is due for a quick downturn. He might have one good year in him, but even that is not likely. He is a career ending injury waiting to happen at his age.

This Suns team has some decent chemistry going. 8-0 in the bubble was not a fluke. The tendency of NBA Gm's to pee away a good thing just because they can make a deal is mind-boggling.

Rubio is going to be better next year than he was this year. He is the perfect player for this squad. CP3 is not worth the risk.

Nash was 38.


But was Nash's injury history at all comparable to that of Paul's ( missing an average of over 20+ games per season) at the same age of 35? Or even at 38? I mean when considering exactly how intense and brutal this upcoming seasons schedule is set to be, How many back to backs and numerous game stretches without breaks in them there'll be. If we're being realistic, Is Paul more likely at this age to sustain or improve his durability with a likely increased workload and increased number of games he'll have to play HEAVY minutes in for us to be successful.

Especially when you consider all of the depth we'll be forced to surrender in order to be able to take on his contractual commitment. Again, depth and financial flexibility will be a critical factor to our success in this current situation.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#347 » by BobbieL » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:36 pm

Jarlaxle0204 wrote:It will be nice seeing Houston implode and great if Harden and Westbrook both move East. The west is so difficult and it would definitely make it easier at competing for a playoff spot.


This is a good point. If Harden and Westbrook go the East - unless Harden goes to Philly for Simmons and players - hard to think the Rockets will be the same. If OKC loses Gallo and CP3 - plus Shroder (Green ) - hard to see them the same.

Thats two of the top 8 gone from the playoffs. So, Suns get CP3 and Gallo - they are probably top 8 team.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#348 » by King4Day » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:39 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
Read on Twitter


Have no idea who this guy is but apparently he has 1000s of followers and is legit (unlike some people we know)

That being said. Why we toying with grandpa Paul when we should be in on a quality prize.


He's a supposed insider who has a knack for being wrong. He spends a lot of his time defending himself on his twitter.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#349 » by KLEON » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:40 pm

JJ stop thinking about CP3 and make a trade for Mitchell Robinson
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#350 » by King4Day » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:41 pm

mr570 wrote:Why are Suns fans so adamant about not trading 10? It's a weak draft. If all you lose is Oubre (Rubio old and never been a superstar) that's a deal worth making for an All Star.


The short of it is, it's not a top heavy draft, but it's deep with role player/possible all star talent.
Suns can really find someone to help now at 10, for cheap (and controllable)
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#351 » by El Hespiritu » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:41 pm

Even better:

If CP3 goes East, Suns are probably top 8 team as we are.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#352 » by Sunsdeuce » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:42 pm

darmani wrote:Flex is such an attention whore lol


Yeah he’s too needy for my taste and it’s like he needs attention. I had to block him.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#353 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:44 pm

KLEON wrote:JJ stop thinking about CP3 and make a trade for Mitchell Robinson
? Wait what. That's out of left field both because I haven't heard of him being available and if he were can't see how he would fit on the suns.

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#354 » by King4Day » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:50 pm

El Hespiritu wrote:Even better:

If CP3 goes East, Suns are probably top 8 team as we are.


The only teams he'd go to in the West are LAC or LAL I imagine so regardless, with or without him, we could be
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#355 » by El Hespiritu » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:51 pm

Kevin O'Connor says Jordan wants The Mutant Ninja Turtle Westbrook at Charlotte.

Probably smoke but we'll see.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#356 » by KLEON » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:52 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
KLEON wrote:JJ stop thinking about CP3 and make a trade for Mitchell Robinson
? Wait what. That's out of left field both because I haven't heard of him being available and if he were can't see how he would fit on the suns.

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He would be a good back-up C. Extremely athletic, rebounds and a shot blocker.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#357 » by sunsbg » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:56 pm

Why are people against trading for Harden ? The US Luka, many here think a combo with Devin will work just fine. Harden played very good with a traditional C like Capela, and some people here think Ayton is basically the same player, so this combo should work as well. If trading half the starters why not Harden, who will be here until Booker's contract expires.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#358 » by BobbieL » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:57 pm

El Hespiritu wrote:Kevin O'Connor says Jordan wants The Mutant Ninja Turtle Westbrook at Charlotte.

Probably smoke but we'll see.


They have the expiring deals to make it work. Batum at $27m - add in Rozier or Zeller - and its done. Plus draft picks or a young player

Just depends on if the Rockets can get the Knicks and Hornets into a little bidding contest. Both teams have the expirings thats for sure so Houston doesn't have to take on too much long term contracts - if any.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#359 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:01 pm

KLEON wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
KLEON wrote:JJ stop thinking about CP3 and make a trade for Mitchell Robinson
? Wait what. That's out of left field both because I haven't heard of him being available and if he were can't see how he would fit on the suns.

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He would be a good back-up C. Extremely athletic, rebounds and a shot blocker.
Sure all true points. But isn't he one of the few kind of nice things the Knicks have.

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#360 » by NapoleonII » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:01 pm

Harden/Booker/Ayton (when he's spacing out) would be atrocious on defense.

And we'd certainly give up Rubio/Oubre/Cam and possibly a pick?

It's too much for a style of play that just doesn't work in the playoffs.

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