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2020 Preseason Speculation - Lineup battles underway

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#481 » by Slim Charless » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:04 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:My take on the Booker aspect of this. I've been one to downplay that in the past because frankly with the length of his deal he didn't have leverage, and at 4 years he really still doesn't. Plus before last year he wasn't actually accomplished or good enough to have that leverage. BUT every year that changes, when he hits the two years left point he absolutely will have the leverage to make things uncomfortable. So the next two years are important. Now the **** secret of star players playing GM is if they get it wrong they still end up leaving.

The main reason I like the potential Paul deal is I truly think it's a wonderful basketball fit. A three man game with booker Ayton and Paul with shooting around them would be a thing of beauty that could succeed against good teams. Plus no small issue is they HAVE to understand what they really have in Ayton and I think Paul helps with that. This is an important season for Deandre because he's extension eligible next summer and if there's any doubt after this year they might have to quietly explore trades.

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I like the fit, but if he can stay healthy I would not look to trade him after this year...we can't keep shuffling the point guards and continuity and one reason Paul agreed to come here is to be close to his family, and heck, they might move to Scottsdale for all we know.

I think you hope he stays healthy and hope you find that PG of the future. Perhaps if he is healthy, he even sticks around one more year on the cheap...but I imagine he will be about done at 37....or at least 38...I think that would be two more years after this contract.

Also, there is a chance Booker learns from Paul how important the competitiveness and play on the defensive side of the ball is more important than the offensive side, because, as coaches always say, your shots won't always fall, but you can be consistent with the defensive pressure to give other teams' problems.

I think that is one big way Paul helps teams is helping set the tone on defense. I think Ricky was good at this too, but Paul is better.

My main reasoning to mention this, I think with defense AND watching Paul's IQ as primary ball handler after watching Ricky, there is a pretty good chance we won't need that PG in the future, or at least what you would consider a regular primary ball handling smaller guard to guard other PGs, but Booker can be the primary ball handler, or work as the PG, while we have 3 defensive shooting wings along with Ayton, post Paul.



Well there is a least a decent chance that Killian is there at 10. I don't think that Halliburton makes it past NYK but Killian might be better for us anyway-he's younger so keeping him on the bench to learn won't kill us with wasted years and he's more athletic so there's more to work with. Someone with his skills can learn a lot from our HOF point.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#482 » by Jesus_H_Macy » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:04 pm

phx#7 wrote:
Jesus_H_Macy wrote:I can live with this deal. It's probably better for OKC than it is for us (unless CP3 stays very healthy and very productive) but Presti didn't bend Jones and Bower over like I was worried about. I really hope Rubio finds a good home on a contender (who knows, maybe he'd come back after his deal is up?) and I hope Oubre gets his $$$ somewhere (glad it wasn't with us, even though there is much to like about his game). I think Jerome can turn it around and be a productive player, but not worried about him or Lecque being thrown in here at all. I think a top shelf FO wouldn't have needed to include that pick, but with the protections it's not so bad (at least I say that now...).

Regardless, what's done is done. Giddy up boys, how long has it been since we could all get this excited about an upcoming Suns season? If we get Gallo or Grant (Bertans is just a bench role guy IMO), we keep Saric, we shore up backup playmaker a bit (don't want us to be counting on Payne bubble performance as our fallback plan for an injured CP3), and we have a healthy year....I don't want to jinx it so I'll just say I'm very much looking forward to this season.

In a vacuum I'm not big on the deal. The only reason I got onboard with the CP3 move was it potentially leading to another big move we may have had a hard time pulling off without him(ie him attracting Gallo or some other quality player).


I feel you. I'm trying not to get too hung up on judging the value or worrying about health scenarios and trying to focus on what the potential benefits are, including what you mention. Leadership, benefits to Booker and Ayton's games, boost to clutchness+shooting...hopefully a majority of the best-case scenarios play out for us and few or none of the worst-case ones do. The basketball gods are bound to smile upon the Suns at some point right ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?
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Re: Phoenix Suns acquire Chris Paul 

Post#483 » by Saberestar » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:05 pm

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#484 » by El Hespiritu » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:07 pm

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#485 » by BobbieL » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:07 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Flying Colors wrote:So what are the moves you would all do now that we have Paul, how do you think our draft changes? Are we looking into drafting our PG of the future that Paul can mentor for the next two years?
If they feel a PG is the BPA then sure but another wing or versitle big could help too. Just take the best prospect.

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Just take the best player that will fit the team. Trying too hard to fill a need - that really isn't the way. Preferably - wouldn't mind a really good shooter at the two guard position.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#486 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:08 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:Is Lecque anything worth getting excited about?


Lecque really has tremendous athletic potential! But I believe hasn't yet realized his tremendous upside yet. Admittedly, Our franchise has never been that good at developing young talent. But there's a reason he's been called " Baby Westbrook " :wink:




I'm sure your franchise can better bring about his immense untapped potential! I'm actually pretty excited for you guys in this regard. :D
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#487 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:09 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:CP3 is 35 years old. This is like a Steve Nash trade.

Nash to the Lakers that is. CP3 is better than Nash was at that moment, but he is due for a quick downturn. He might have one good year in him, but even that is not likely. He is a career ending injury waiting to happen at his age.

This Suns team has some decent chemistry going. 8-0 in the bubble was not a fluke. The tendency of NBA Gm's to pee away a good thing just because they can make a deal is mind-boggling.

Rubio is going to be better next year than he was this year. He is the perfect player for this squad. CP3 is not worth the risk.


This would have been like trading for Nash before the 09-10 season (age wise)...and he had a good 3 years after that...and had the back problems.

Paul has had more other injuries, but maybe his Vegan diet will help...cutting out red meat (well, all meats), sugar, etc, can all help your body be immensely more healthy...not sure what his diet was before though...no sugar, red meat, but just lean meats/proteins is fine too.
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Re: Phoenix Suns acquire Chris Paul 

Post#488 » by BobbieL » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:10 pm

I was getting a bit nervous reading about Cam Johnson or the 10th pick being a part of the trade. That to me was an overpay.

This trade seems fair for the Suns. Oubre was probably going to be the 6th man this year .

I liked Rubio but Paul is an upgrade for this team. The three man game with Booker and DA should be excellent especially if you have shooters like Cam , Bridges, and maybe a guy in Free Agency.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#489 » by Saberestar » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:11 pm

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#490 » by Flying Colors » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:14 pm

Wild that we essentially turned Trevor Ariza into CP3
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#491 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:14 pm

bigfoot wrote:
matt131 wrote:
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I would say a 2022 pick could be in the 20's ... not a bad give up for CP3


The good thing is Houston and OKC will take steps back, though GS will be better....as long as we can stay ahead of Memphis, New Orleans, Portland, Minnesota, Sac and SA, and possibly Utah, that pick should not be very good. I think they only teams that likely for sure stay ahead are the LA teams and Denver. We did compete with Denver and the Clips though already.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#492 » by bigfoot » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:14 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:Jerami Grant is definitely preferred over anyone else IMO, I just thought Gallinari was the easier target to acquire since he and CP3 seem to enjoy each other's company in OKC.


I think a lot depends on two things
1) will the Suns be an over the cap team or do they wait until after Sunday

2) Are the Suns bringing back Saric as that eats into the 18m of cap space.

If Saric is back, hard to think they have money for Grant unless a guy like Cam Payne is not back.


I'd rather have Grant than Saric. What does Saric do that Grant cannot? Plus, Grant is infinitely better and much more switchable defender.


I disagree. Saric is a significantly better rebounder and passer. It would be a travesty to let him leave when he could be the point forward for our bench unit. We lack a playmaker for the bench and Dario fills that role perfectly. Plus he and Cam Johnson have a thing going.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#493 » by BobbieL » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:14 pm

Saberestar wrote:
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If the Rockets move Harden and Westbrook to the East - that helps the Suns, So now, really looking forward to what other players Chris Paul - and the Suns cap space /exceptions are able to bring to Phoenix

Would like Saric back - as I think a solid 5 behind Ayton or 4. And what other player makes sense at the 4

Millsap might be an option. Gallo of course. Woods. I just think if Saric is back - that limits the option of bringing in Grant.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#494 » by Slim Charless » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:15 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
I think a lot depends on two things
1) will the Suns be an over the cap team or do they wait until after Sunday

2) Are the Suns bringing back Saric as that eats into the 18m of cap space.

If Saric is back, hard to think they have money for Grant unless a guy like Cam Payne is not back.


I'd rather have Grant than Saric. What does Saric do that Grant cannot? Plus, Grant is infinitely better and much more switchable defender.


Sorry - its actually Saric + another PF OR Grant.


All good. That makes sense. Personally I think this means we can keep Baynes much easier now. He already liked being here and was a good influence for Ayton. Now, we should be winning more so hopefully he'll be down to stay. We keep him, sign Grant and that's a huge improvement.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#495 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:16 pm

matt131 wrote:
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Glad it's protected, but that unprotected in 25 could hurt, especially if Booker is gone...and of course Paul

It should convey in 22 though, which, would be the best, especially if the age restrictions are not lifted.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#496 » by BobbieL » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:18 pm

bigfoot wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
I think a lot depends on two things
1) will the Suns be an over the cap team or do they wait until after Sunday

2) Are the Suns bringing back Saric as that eats into the 18m of cap space.

If Saric is back, hard to think they have money for Grant unless a guy like Cam Payne is not back.


I'd rather have Grant than Saric. What does Saric do that Grant cannot? Plus, Grant is infinitely better and much more switchable defender.


I disagree. Saric is a significantly better rebounder and passer. It would be a travesty to let him leave when he could be the point forward for our bench unit. We lack a playmaker for the bench and Dario fills that role perfectly. Plus he and Cam Johnson have a thing going.


I like the option of Saric and another player over just signing Grant. Maybe thats Saric and Christian Woods. Bertans is a good shooter but doesn't do much else. I guess Gallo isn't great on defense.

So the Suns have their work cut out for them filling out the roster. But I feel better about this move after seeing the trade.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#497 » by Saberestar » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:18 pm

Oubre was done on the Suns at the moment he said that he wouldn't play in the bubble.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#498 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:19 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
dremill24 wrote:Wording in the tweet says "has traded..." does that mean it's getting done now before free agency?

We will definitely wait to finalize the trade until after free agency. We didn't trade our draft pick so really there is no rush to make it official just yet...


*mods feel free to change the poll, I already screenshotted the last one. :D *


I'll think of something for the poll....maybe regarding preferences on free agents....then we can do one on projected wins after the draft and FA.

I'll change the draft one too...and around the nba maybe asking which teams people think will have better records than us (or which 8 teams make playoffs).
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#499 » by Jesus_H_Macy » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:21 pm

bigfoot wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
I think a lot depends on two things
1) will the Suns be an over the cap team or do they wait until after Sunday

2) Are the Suns bringing back Saric as that eats into the 18m of cap space.

If Saric is back, hard to think they have money for Grant unless a guy like Cam Payne is not back.


I'd rather have Grant than Saric. What does Saric do that Grant cannot? Plus, Grant is infinitely better and much more switchable defender.


I disagree. Saric is a significantly better rebounder and passer. It would be a travesty to let him leave when he could be the point forward for our bench unit. We lack a playmaker for the bench and Dario fills that role perfectly. Plus he and Cam Johnson have a thing going.


I think one thing we learned from the bubble (as much as we can count on that sample size anyways) is that, as you mention, Saric as the focal point of the bench offense is the perfect role for him. I don't like him as the starting PF, although it will be nice that he could put in spot duty in that role. But I really really liked him as the posting-up/passing 5 on the bench unit with C and PF minutes sprinkled in with the starters here and there. If we can get him re-signed for between 8-10m and that play/role holds up over time that's a big W for us.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - CPfree or CPexpensive? 

Post#500 » by wheezy » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:21 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:Jerami Grant is definitely preferred over anyone else IMO, I just thought Gallinari was the easier target to acquire since he and CP3 seem to enjoy each other's company in OKC.


I think a lot depends on two things
1) will the Suns be an over the cap team or do they wait until after Sunday

2) Are the Suns bringing back Saric as that eats into the 18m of cap space.

If Saric is back, hard to think they have money for Grant unless a guy like Cam Payne is not back.


I'd rather have Grant than Saric. What does Saric do that Grant cannot? Plus, Grant is infinitely better and much more switchable defender.

I loved what Saric was doing as a backup C in the bubble. Dude was doing all the small things on both sides of the court. Would much rather have him + whatever other FA(s) we can get than just Grant.

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