Valentine signs QO; Dunn to ATL for 2/$10

[Evil_Headband]

K.C. Johnson telegraphed these moves for us...

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised to see this regime extend the qualifying offer to Denzel Valentine — another ball handler and strong passer — and not Dunn. While Dunn has proved elite at the defensive end, he doesn’t fit the offensive philosophy described by the new regime. Couple that with his injury issues and the fact he was the only player not at the Bulls’ bubble, and it’s certainly trending the wrong direction.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-mailbag-will-zach-lavine-be-traded-lamelo-ball-answer-pg

[cjbulls]

K.C. Johnson telegraphed these moves for us...

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised to see this regime extend the qualifying offer to Denzel Valentine — another ball handler and strong passer — and not Dunn. While Dunn has proved elite at the defensive end, he doesn’t fit the offensive philosophy described by the new regime. Couple that with his injury issues and the fact he was the only player not at the Bulls’ bubble, and it’s certainly trending the wrong direction.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-mailbag-will-zach-lavine-be-traded-lamelo-ball-answer-pg

So maybe he still has sources. Interesting catch.

[ChettheJet]

Mostly it's what we don't know and is going on behind the scenes and I'm fine with that. It means the Bulls aren't being played by agents in public to end up looking like chumps. So it's guessing. I would say Valentine can play the 2 or the 3 which could mean they have something in the works to trade either Porter or Hutchison while drafting Avdija or they don't want to spend any of their exemption money on a SG hoping Mokoka gives them some minutes.

Further speculation is Dunn being a FA he might have gotten a 2-3 year offer so he asked not to be tied to the qualifying offer, maybe there's a S&T possibility and it works out better for the Bulls to not have him bound by the offer.

Look beyond the obvious in the FO game.

[PaKii94]

Coby/Lavine/OPJ/Lauri/WCJ
Sato/Val/Hutch/Thad/Gafford
Archi/Shaq/Mokoka/___/Kornet

That's how our roster stands if Val takes the QO.

[HomoSapien]

K.C. Johnson telegraphed these moves for us...

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised to see this regime extend the qualifying offer to Denzel Valentine — another ball handler and strong passer — and not Dunn. While Dunn has proved elite at the defensive end, he doesn’t fit the offensive philosophy described by the new regime. Couple that with his injury issues and the fact he was the only player not at the Bulls’ bubble, and it’s certainly trending the wrong direction.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-mailbag-will-zach-lavine-be-traded-lamelo-ball-answer-pg

Yeah, I'm not surprised that AK would like Valentine. He's all about playmakers. I don't know if he can do it on the NBA level, but Valentine was essentially Haliburtion 1.0.

[PaKii94]

K.C. Johnson telegraphed these moves for us...

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised to see this regime extend the qualifying offer to Denzel Valentine — another ball handler and strong passer — and not Dunn. While Dunn has proved elite at the defensive end, he doesn’t fit the offensive philosophy described by the new regime. Couple that with his injury issues and the fact he was the only player not at the Bulls’ bubble, and it’s certainly trending the wrong direction.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-mailbag-will-zach-lavine-be-traded-lamelo-ball-answer-pg

Yeah, I'm not surprised that AK would like Valentine. He's all about playmakers. I don't know if he can do it on the NBA level, but Valentine was essentially Haliburtion 1.0.

I don't like the Hali comparison for Valentine. Val is more of a 2/3 playmaker with a shot (his defense was never that good and his shot was a lot more pure). Hali is more of a 1 playmaker with more of a defense emphasis who can hit a shot.

Val to me is closer to Hayes (athleticism limited playmaking guards) but that isn't a good comparison either

[kodo]

Dunn never played PG for us so it doesn't mean anything in terms of us drafting a PG because we now have a "hole" at the spot. Dunn played SF or SG depending on how you want to look at it. 2 & 3 are interchangeable anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Dunn have some value around the league as a Beverley type. Really only teams with an abundance of offense would want this type of player though, and that's not Chicago.

[Pax for Prez]

Denzel at a QO of $4 million makes sense as salary filler in a trade.

I doubt he gets $4 million on the open market this year.

After Denzel accepts his QO, am I correct the Bulls can not trade him without his consent (because he would have to give up his Bird Rights) ?

[PaKii94]

Dunn never played PG for us so it doesn't mean anything in terms of us drafting a PG because we now have a "hole" at the spot. Dunn played SF or SG depending on how you want to look at it. 2 & 3 are interchangeable anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Dunn have some value around the league as a Beverley type. Really only teams with an abundance of offense would want this type of player though, and that's not Chicago.

Dunn was a PG for us for the first two season. His success last year came as a ball hawk defensive 2/3 in a heavy blitzing defense.

[jordanwilliams6]

I still like Denzel but feels like the sort of guy who would be valuable on a contender. He would be an extremely good 8/9 rotation piece if his defense was a little better. Someone who can shoot, pass & rebound is always a positive but he needs to be a certain situation to hide his athleticism and defence weaknesses.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

I actually like Dunn as a backup/defensive specialist but I'm not heartbroken over losing either of these guys.

[LateNight]

Coby/Lavine/OPJ/Lauri/WCJ
Sato/Val/Hutch/Thad/Gafford
Archi/Shaq/Mokoka/___/Kornet

That's how our roster stands if Val takes the QO.

Unless I'm mistaken, we haven't signed Makoka or Shaq and you're ignoring Felicio. We also have two picks we might use (unless we trade/stash/don't sign them).

I've also heard that the league is planning to expand two-way contracts (either to allow for more or allow them to train / suit up for more games) because they're worried about teams losing players to covid. If that is the case, I'm guessing they'd probably try to sign Makoka or others with one of those slots rather than using up a roster spot.

[meekrab]

I get not offering to Dunn but to Valentine? I think Dunn is more useful than Denzel honestly, but if you keep Shaq he brings what Dunn does in defense.

Valentine, must think they need him because he is disappointing to me on all levels.

These are all 8th to 12th man type guys so the dollar amounts probably played a heavy factor. The QO for Dunn was around $7M vs Denzel at around $4M. Plus having Shaq and his roughly $2M QO makes Dunn easier to let go.

Shaq doesn't have a QO, those only apply to first round draft pick rookie contracts. He was signed on a partially guaranteed free agent minimum contract.

edit: hmm ignore this, apparently there are situations where a player can have a QO despite not being on a rookie deal.

[HomoSapien]

K.C. Johnson telegraphed these moves for us...



https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-mailbag-will-zach-lavine-be-traded-lamelo-ball-answer-pg

Yeah, I'm not surprised that AK would like Valentine. He's all about playmakers. I don't know if he can do it on the NBA level, but Valentine was essentially Haliburtion 1.0.

I don't like the Hali comparison for Valentine. Val is more of a 2/3 playmaker with a shot (his defense was never that good and his shot was a lot more pure). Hali is more of a 1 playmaker with more of a defense emphasis who can hit a shot.

Val to me is closer to Hayes (athleticism limited playmaking guards) but that isn't a good comparison either

I just meant in college, since Valentine was used as the lead playmaker then.

[Kurt Heimlich]

I get not offering to Dunn but to Valentine? I think Dunn is more useful than Denzel honestly, but if you keep Shaq he brings what Dunn does in defense.

Valentine, must think they need him because he is disappointing to me on all levels.

These are all 8th to 12th man type guys so the dollar amounts probably played a heavy factor. The QO for Dunn was around $7M vs Denzel at around $4M. Plus having Shaq and his roughly $2M QO makes Dunn easier to let go.

Shaq doesn't have a QO, those only apply to first round draft pick rookie contracts. He was signed on a partially guaranteed free agent minimum contract.

This says otherwise.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/nba-free-agency-how-bulls-may-handle-kris-dunn-other-restricted-free-agents

[dougthonus]

These are all 8th to 12th man type guys so the dollar amounts probably played a heavy factor. The QO for Dunn was around $7M vs Denzel at around $4M. Plus having Shaq and his roughly $2M QO makes Dunn easier to let go.

Shaq doesn't have a QO, those only apply to first round draft pick rookie contracts. He was signed on a partially guaranteed free agent minimum contract.

This says otherwise.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/nba-free-agency-how-bulls-may-handle-kris-dunn-other-restricted-free-agents

In addition to the things mentioned, QOs are for any player with 3 years or less experience. Shaq is coming off his 3rd season so can still be kept under a QO. This is the rule for 2nd round picks, not because they are 2nd round picks, but because it is the rule for all non 1st round picks including UDFAs, FAs from Europe / GLeague etc...

This is also why 2nd rounders usually want 2 or 4 year deals. 2 years means the club has to decide sooner and 4 means UFA after they are done with their deal. Granted, the player has to be good enough for that to matter while clubs want 3 year deals as it is the most years that still gives them RFA control.

[meekrab]

These are all 8th to 12th man type guys so the dollar amounts probably played a heavy factor. The QO for Dunn was around $7M vs Denzel at around $4M. Plus having Shaq and his roughly $2M QO makes Dunn easier to let go.

Shaq doesn't have a QO, those only apply to first round draft pick rookie contracts. He was signed on a partially guaranteed free agent minimum contract.

This says otherwise.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/nba-free-agency-how-bulls-may-handle-kris-dunn-other-restricted-free-agents

Yeah it turns out if you've been in the league for 3 seasons or less you still qualify for restricted free agency.

[Red8911]

I honestly thought both of these guys wouldn’t return so I am too surprised that they want to bring back Valentine.

What does the Qualifying offer mean? They signed him for another year? And can they still trade him now or later on?

[Pax for Prez]

I honestly thought both of these guys wouldn’t return so I am too surprised that they want to bring back Valentine.

What does the Qualifying offer mean? They signed him for another year? And can they still trade him now or later on?

Restricted free agency allows the team to match any offer the player receives from another team. But in order to have that right, the team must have issued the player a qualifying offer. If a qualifying offer wasn’t issued, that player is an unrestricted free agent instead.

The qualifying offer is binding as a one-year contract. If the player signs it, he’s under contract for next season. He could also sign an offer sheet from another team (which his team would have the ability to match), and he and his team could agree on a new, multi-year contract. The team also has the ability to rescind the qualifying offer going forward.

[Grodoboldo]

It's a little weird, but meh, none are any significant part of our future.
I actually like Valentine as an end of the bench minimum guy, but 4mil does seem high for him.