Fixing the Mess Pt. 2 Sixers Offseason

Post #381 » by **Stanford** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:47 pm

DT RAW wrote:
fl311 wrote:
Stanford wrote:

Read on Twitter

Touchdown, lads.

Vinny beat fl311 to it.

Any truth to us trying to get harden? Not the part about not including simmons as thats ridiculous but are we engaged with them?

dont bother he dont got the scoops

Mik317 · Post #382 » by **Mik317** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:48 pm

DT RAW wrote:
Mik317 wrote:
DT RAW wrote:Heres the thing. Even if we got harden without trading ben, which wont happen but if we did...

Ben is going to **** up the offense yet again even with harden. Ben is USELESS off the ball in thr half court and we DAMN sure better not turn harden into a spot up shooter.

So ben and embiid will continue clogging the paint and now hardens driving to the basket and getting to the ft line is all **** up.

Its like we continue doing the same **** over n over exoecting diff results

Yet the results r all the same, every single offensive stud we think we have ends up wayyyyy less effectivw in philly and theres a giant red blinking cone on the court causing it but instead we continue acting like that useless cone ia suddenly going to be kevin durant at any moment on offense

Even with harden on this team, if ben and embiid are both on the court then harden will be WAYYYYYYY less effective of a player. FACT

Trade bens ass. Im sick of ground hog day every **** year

You lack a creative mind.

Ben and Embiid has never played with a shot creator their entire time here. That was supposed to be Fultz. Harden also can play off ball some and you can stagger minutes and have Ben run the second unit.

again your hatred of Ben clouds any point you make. You are no better than his stans in this regard.

and guess what if it doesn't work out...we can trade Ben to ADD to Harden and Embiid. In what world is that a bad thing lol

The hell u talking about.. we had butler and simmons made his job and embiids infinitely harder

I lack a creative mind? Plz tell me what an offense with embiid needing to be around the basket to be most effective and simmons who has ZERO actual ZERO half court ability is supposed to do?

Tell me strait up if harden is here with ben that ben wont be in the dunker spot or being left alone in the corner unguarded .. plz dude. For once be real

Or let me say it in a way u may understand

"Be reelz yo"

This is a waste of mine and everyones time because you are just going to go 'no u" and continue to post the same **** over and over again but here I go anyway.

1. Yes. Ben is going to have to shoot. This is known. If he does not then yeah thats a wrap. Brett was too close and obviously had no voice to get **** done. Now IDK if Doc will fair any better, I have my doubts, BUT in this scenario all Ben has to do in the half court is spot up in the corner and take those shots..thats not that hard of an ask IMO. It didn't work this year because no one could break down their man and get to the rim. The threat of Harden makes that tough and when Ben's man leaves him to double Harden, Ben can cut and Harden is a good passer so there ya go. Embiid also won't be on the floor all the time so Ben can run some PNR with Harden. Yeah we had Jimmy, HOWEVER, Brett only went to Jimmy on ball in the playoffs and at the last minute...this would in theory give them a full season to work out the kinks and if they do not work...you can trade Ben (or Harden...or Embiid).

But again you have already made your mind up that Ben is the anti christ so nothing can be said to change that. You have this idea that everything is a lock to be a certain way.

Its fascinating the the trust the process fanbase is often such in a rush for immediate and guaranteed success. This **** isn't lateral and there are no moves that are no brainers, there are downsides and upsides to everything and you have to take everything into account...so many of yall speak in absolutes and then base everything off of that when that is simply not how it works.

eyeatoma · Post #383 » by **eyeatoma** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:53 pm

Stanford wrote:
DT RAW wrote:
fl311 wrote:

Any truth to us trying to get harden? Not the part about not including simmons as thats ridiculous but are we engaged with them?

dont bother he dont got the scoops

LOl you clearly don't have faith in him, which is weird, cuz he's been around forever and has been right on several occasions. The biggest evidence being identifying Joel breaking his face, and the recovery timeline.

Post #384 » by **sixers hoops** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:57 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
Stanford wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
Again, Toronto didn't give up much for Kawhi. They gave up a net negative in DeRozan who Masai didn't want to keep, plus a mediocre C prospect and a 1st round pick. Hell, Toronto got back a significantly net positive role player also in Danny Green!

Not exactly the King's Ransom people are claiming it will take to get Harden.

Kawhi had one year left and people were genuinely confused about his injury status. The difference between one year and two is huge. If it doesn't work in the first year and it's clear the player won't resign, you can still trade the player (still top 5) the next year and recoup some of your assets. As Sam Presti has shown, pressure to succeed in other organizations can be used as leverage to get returns for star players. Every year there are GM that are forced to make bad deals to satisfy ownership/star players. You could absolutely trade Harden next offseason, probably for a lot.

Yeah if Harden basically sits a year old like Kawhi did maybe it gets to this point.

The Spurs also just decided they needed to get an "all star" back for Kawhi. It was seen as weird at the time, not sure you can just assume the Rockets would feel the same (or that they think Tobias is that kind of player).

I thought SA made a dumb trade at the time, and it had the feel of them taking less to not send Kawhi to his preferred destinations. I wouldn’t assume Hou makes a similar bad trade just because SA set a bad trade precedent. Also, we knew Pop wasn’t looking to build with draft picks.

I agree that there are several examples of stars going for way less than we expected. At least Kyrie fetched a lotto pick. Paul George, Cousins, Kawhi, Butler, and Brow and a few others were approaching free agency and had more leverage to dictate where they go.Kawhi and George went to teams not on their list at the time, so we have to see if Harden suitors will be willing to take a similar risk.

If the offers aren’t there and Harden becomes difficult, the price could drop. However, he is prob traded before that happens.

fl311 · Post #385 » by **fl311** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:59 pm

I enjoy rumors as much as the next guy and have no qualms when someone posts something I haven’t heard. I’m not Woj or Shams but i have heard no such rumors about getting Harden for anything less than Ben.

Arsenal · Post #386 » by **Arsenal** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:00 am

davesilver wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
Stanford wrote:
Yes. Top five players in their prime change championship odds.

Again, Toronto didn't give up much for Kawhi. They gave up a net negative in DeRozan who Masai didn't want to keep, plus a mediocre C prospect and a 1st round pick. Hell, Toronto got back a significantly net positive role player also in Danny Green!

Not exactly the King's Ransom people are claiming it will take to get Harden.

In this sense, I see Tobias <= DeRozan, Jrich <= DG, Matisse >= Poetl. Not to mention that was not a great 1st rounder that Toronto sent at all...

We could top that trade without Ben. I think Harden's value would be much greater though due to the additional years on his contract.

Toronto didn’t send out Danny Green, they got him along with Kawhi.

Daytonflores · Post #387 » by **Daytonflores** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:02 am

fl311 wrote:I enjoy rumors as much as the next guy and have no qualms when someone posts something I haven’t heard. I’m not Woj or Shams but i have heard no such rumors about getting Harden for anything less than Ben.

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #388 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:04 am

I'm down for us to get Harden, but Houston would be stupid to not stand firm on asking for Simmons in return. There's just no way we have the pieces to get him without giving up Simmons. Or do we? Mattise, Al? I don't know man, you'd think Houston would rather have Harris if that were the case. I just don't see it. I think Harden does get moved, but i'd be very surprised if it's to us.

DT RAW · Post #389 » by **DT RAW** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:08 am

Mik317 wrote:
DT RAW wrote:
Mik317 wrote:

You lack a creative mind.

Ben and Embiid has never played with a shot creator their entire time here. That was supposed to be Fultz. Harden also can play off ball some and you can stagger minutes and have Ben run the second unit.

again your hatred of Ben clouds any point you make. You are no better than his stans in this regard.

and guess what if it doesn't work out...we can trade Ben to ADD to Harden and Embiid. In what world is that a bad thing lol

The hell u talking about.. we had butler and simmons made his job and embiids infinitely harder

I lack a creative mind? Plz tell me what an offense with embiid needing to be around the basket to be most effective and simmons who has ZERO actual ZERO half court ability is supposed to do?

Tell me strait up if harden is here with ben that ben wont be in the dunker spot or being left alone in the corner unguarded .. plz dude. For once be real

Or let me say it in a way u may understand

"Be reelz yo"

This is a waste of mine and everyones time because you are just going to go 'no u" and continue to post the same **** over and over again but here I go anyway.

1. Yes. Ben is going to have to shoot. This is known. If he does not then yeah thats a wrap. Brett was too close and obviously had no voice to get **** done. Now IDK if Doc will fair any better, I have my doubts, BUT in this scenario all Ben has to do in the half court is spot up in the corner and take those shots..thats not that hard of an ask IMO. It didn't work this year because no one could break down their man and get to the rim. The threat of Harden makes that tough and when Ben's man leaves him to double Harden, Ben can cut and Harden is a good passer so there ya go. Embiid also won't be on the floor all the time so Ben can run some PNR with Harden. Yeah we had Jimmy, HOWEVER, Brett only went to Jimmy on ball in the playoffs and at the last minute...this would in theory give them a full season to work out the kinks and if they do not work...you can trade Ben (or Harden...or Embiid).

But again you have already made your mind up that Ben is the anti christ so nothing can be said to change that. You have this idea that everything is a lock to be a certain way.

Its fascinating the the trust the process fanbase is often such in a rush for immediate and guaranteed success. This **** isn't lateral and there are no moves that are no brainers, there are downsides and upsides to everything and you have to take everything into account...so many of yall speak in absolutes and then base everything off of that when that is simply not how it works.

Immediate success? Bro this will be what? Bens 5th year? He is what he is. And it has been anything but immediate.

So you want to pay simmons to be a corner camping slasher making max money who plays great defense?

Im sorry but we can get a guy that can do that on a minimum level or rookie contract

Ben simmons has to have the ball to have any semblence of value in the half court, but even that when defended by playoff defenses gets schemed out.

And even if we did keep him as you said, you dont think teams are going to camp their man in the paint when ben is in the corner?? There wont be help D because they dont even guard him, they will give ben that 3 every single posession and keep an extra man to help on harden drives or embiid dump ins just as we have seen the past 4 years

Teams arent suddenly going to respect simmons on offense simply because we have harden. That isnt how it works

sixers_simmons · Post #390 » by **sixers_simmons** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:09 am

Read on Twitter

DT RAW · Post #391 » by **DT RAW** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:09 am

fl311 wrote:I enjoy rumors as much as the next guy and have no qualms when someone posts something I haven’t heard. I’m not Woj or Shams but i have heard no such rumors about getting Harden for anything less than Ben.

But we are in fact engaged in talks with houston?

eyeatoma · Post #392 » by **eyeatoma** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:09 am

fl311 wrote:I enjoy rumors as much as the next guy and have no qualms when someone posts something I haven’t heard. I’m not Woj or Shams but i have heard no such rumors about getting Harden for anything less than Ben.

So are we thinking about Ben for Harden, or are we completely against it?

GutUNC · Post #393 » by **GutUNC** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:10 am

PhilaOwnsBoston wrote:Why would Ben Simmons have more value than James Harden? He's one of the 3 greatest scoring guards in NBA history and his game translates to aging well because he doesn't rely on athleticism, he relies on craftiness.

Ben Simmons is a good player, but he's vastly overrated. He not only can't shoot at all, he flat out refuses to, he's a liability at the ends of games, and he's barely improved since his rookie season, which puts a bit of a damper on the expectations of his ceiling. And he had a back issue last season, which is nothing to scoff at.

It's not about what the fans think, it's about what NBA GMs think. I'd bet around the NBA, GMs value Simmons' trade value closer to Levert than they do Harden. I would not be shocked at all if a select few NBA GMs think Levert has a higher upside than Simmons because of Levert's offensive potential and how much he's improved since entering the league, and would prefer Levert.

That's when people disqualify themselves from the conversation.

His jumper hasn't improved (or become existent). If you don't see the improvement in the rest of his game, you're trying not to.

TorturedFan76 · Post #394 » by **TorturedFan76** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:12 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Stanford wrote:
DT RAW wrote:
Any truth to us trying to get harden? Not the part about not including simmons as thats ridiculous but are we engaged with them?

dont bother he dont got the scoops

LOl you clearly don't have faith in him, which is weird, cuz he's been around forever and has been right on several occasions. The biggest evidence being identifying Joel breaking his face, and the recovery timeline.

Not sure how many times I have seen him post that comment about a valued member of this community over the past few days. Antagonistic behavior from a so called moderator of the forum is disappointing, to say the least. After seeing another guy with a source quit years ago because he was tired of dealing with haters, this is frustrating to watch at baseline. But from a mod, even worse.

davesilver · Post #395 » by **davesilver** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:12 am

Arsenal wrote:
davesilver wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
Again, Toronto didn't give up much for Kawhi. They gave up a net negative in DeRozan who Masai didn't want to keep, plus a mediocre C prospect and a 1st round pick. Hell, Toronto got back a significantly net positive role player also in Danny Green!

Not exactly the King's Ransom people are claiming it will take to get Harden.

In this sense, I see Tobias <= DeRozan, Jrich <= DG, Matisse >= Poetl. Not to mention that was not a great 1st rounder that Toronto sent at all...

We could top that trade without Ben. I think Harden's value would be much greater though due to the additional years on his contract.

Toronto didn’t send out Danny Green, they got him along with Kawhi.

Whoops brain fart

Gulfwang · Post #396 » by **Gulfwang** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:17 am

fl311 wrote:I enjoy rumors as much as the next guy and have no qualms when someone posts something I haven’t heard. I’m not Woj or Shams but i have heard no such rumors about getting Harden for anything less than Ben.

Have you heard anything about Horford, no buzz on rumors (expect the one from you that was the Sixers trying) is kind of worrisome

Post #397 » by **Stanford** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:18 am

TorturedFan76 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Stanford wrote:
dont bother he dont got the scoops

LOl you clearly don't have faith in him, which is weird, cuz he's been around forever and has been right on several occasions. The biggest evidence being identifying Joel breaking his face, and the recovery timeline.

Not sure how many times I have seen him post that comment about a valued member of this community over the past few days. Antagonistic behavior from a so called moderator of the forum is disappointing, to say the least. After seeing another guy with a source quit years ago because he was tired of dealing with haters, this is frustrating to watch at baseline. But from a mod, even worse.

Oui, chef. Sorry, chef. Won't happen again, chef.

eyeatoma · Post #398 » by **eyeatoma** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:27 am

Stanford wrote:
TorturedFan76 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
LOl you clearly don't have faith in him, which is weird, cuz he's been around forever and has been right on several occasions. The biggest evidence being identifying Joel breaking his face, and the recovery timeline.

Not sure how many times I have seen him post that comment about a valued member of this community over the past few days. Antagonistic behavior from a so called moderator of the forum is disappointing, to say the least. After seeing another guy with a source quit years ago because he was tired of dealing with haters, this is frustrating to watch at baseline. But from a mod, even worse.

Oui, chef. Sorry, chef. Won't happen again, chef.

Yeah, I'm a fan of Stanford, but I'm not sure why he's making it a point to always call fl311 out... Enough evidence to prove that his sources are real.

We rarely get insider sources, and I don't want to lose this one, and I'm sure others feel the same way.

TorturedFan76 · Post #399 » by **TorturedFan76** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:33 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Stanford wrote:
TorturedFan76 wrote:Not sure how many times I have seen him post that comment about a valued member of this community over the past few days. Antagonistic behavior from a so called moderator of the forum is disappointing, to say the least. After seeing another guy with a source quit years ago because he was tired of dealing with haters, this is frustrating to watch at baseline. But from a mod, even worse.

Oui, chef. Sorry, chef. Won't happen again, chef.

Yeah, I'm a fan of Stanford, but I'm not sure why he's making it a point to always call fl311 out... Enough evidence to prove that his sources are real.

We rarely get insider sources, and I don't want to lose this one, and I'm sure others feel the same way.

I don't post here that much, but I don't like Stanford because of JJ Arcega-Whiteside.

Arsenal · Post #400 » by **Arsenal** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:39 am

If the Rockets really want to continue as a playoff team, they'll likely try to convince either Harden or Westbrook to stay as long as they trade the other. The problem is they can't coexist.

If we can flip Horford plus into Hield, that may change things from Houstons perspective into being fine doing a deal without Ben. Something like this (sprinkle in picks where needed):

Sixers trade:
CE Al Horford
PF Tobias Harris
SG Matisse Thybulle
SG Shake Milton

Sixers receive:
PG James Harden
SG Eric Gordon

Rockets trade:
PG James Harden
SG Eric Gordon

Rockets receive:
PF Tobias Harris
SG Buddy Hield
SG Matisse Thybulle

Kings trade:
SG Buddy Hield

Kings receive:
CE Al Horford
SG Shake Milton

Sixers lineup:
PG Harden | FA
SG Gordon | Smith
SF JRich | Korkmaz
PF Simmons | Scott
CE Embiid | FA

Rockets lineup (trade Tucker for a Center later):
PG Westbrook | Rivers
SG Hield | Thybulle | McLemore
SF Covington | House
PF Harris
CE Tucker

Kings lineup:
PG Fox | Joseph
SG Bogs | Milton
SF Barnes | #12
PF Bagley | Bjelica
CE Horford | Holmes